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We’re not all made of money in the knifing community you know.
Surely if you're a member of the knifing community in need of a bit of extra cash, it's pretty easy to rob someone of it.
I mean, if you've got the knife, you may as well use it! 😉
Movie scenes where a bad guy with a semi-automatic unloads a host of rounds at the good guy from 100m away, the good guy remains unharmed, fires 2 shots from a small handgun and the bad guy collapses. Yeah, that's not going to happen...
In the US I was with some work colleagues on a trip to the municipal firing range. We practiced with a 1m cardboard box at about 8m distance and none of us newbies could it it in the first half dozen shots!
Really??? I'm no expert, but the last time I had a go on a firing range with a 22 pistol I was easily hitting the (small) target at twice that range. (Which is clearly not the same as hitting an angry assailant running at me, btw)
Many years ago a chap ran into my local with a knife waving it around just after I had left
I wondered what I could have done had I been in there. two things I thought of - one would be using a chair like a lion tamer to try to pin him to a wall the other being wrap my leather jacket I often wore around my hands and rush him / try to wrap in in it
i am one of those folk that cannot be a bystander
so those of you who know this stuff would either tactic have been any use? fortunately I never had to find out.
When i trained martial arts we used real knives and yes people did get cut
was it at a kickboxing club in Glasgow..
😃😄
My teacher's said we'll be using live blades at some point.
I might have flu that day...
They both lunged a few times at each other and both leapt out of the way when necessary. Almost balletic. But it quickly became apparent that they were as scared as each other at the thought of being stabbed/cut/sliced by the other.
Very familiar scenario for me; when I get people to spar with padded sticks they just go nuts as the consequences of being hit are minimal. Swap for medium weight rattan and the game completely changes.
Chair yes, possibly a good tactic, but you'd need to be assertive. Other thing no.
Too much chance of impaling yourself on his blade.
Having shot pistols on a UK 10yd range in the late 70s I think some of you are very optimistic about not being shot, even by someone who has never shot before.
Was the target a) human and b) shooting back? Probably not comparable then. I shot clay pigeons and got pretty good at it. I have no illusions that I could translate that accuracy to shooting another person who was shooting at me.
isn’t done is it and will earn the shooter a long prison sentence.
They changed the duelling rules years ago. Back, front, manbits. I don't think it really matters anymore
Frankly, the nastiest weapon to carry is a flat blade screwdriver, with the flat edges sharpened.
The nastiest weapon is an old fashioned T handled corkscrew. Makes a right mess going in and a bigger one coming out.
leather jacket I often wore around my hands
Is leather jacket scottish for gloves?
If you've got nothing else, I'm told wrapping it around your forearm to deflect a blow might work buts it's a desperate last measure when taking to your toes isn't possible.
I'd have thought throwing your drink in his face and hitting him with the chair might work better. Or throwing one chair at his head and hitting him with someone else's.
Unless you can get your hands on a chemical fire extinguisher. Those are a pretty good long range vision reducing tool. Then hit him with that.
Ta
I'm a lover not a fighter - haven't hit anyone since I was in primary school but I cannot be a bystander - I have broken up a couple of fights on the street. I do a good Begbie act but its all bluff
Thank goodness I didn't have to and the situation was resolved without injury
Rule No. 1: Always take a gun to a knife fight.
As MTBers our best form of defence is shining 4000 lumens in their eyes whilst making our escape.
d. A subsonic round over a relatively short distance maintains a fairly level trajectory. However a high velocity round leaves the barrel and dips, before rising, before levelling off again.
Not quite true I’m afraid. All rounds, subsonic or otherwise, leave the barrel in the same straight line, but immediately start to drop, in a progressive fashion as they loose energy due to friction(air resistance) and gravity. The “dip effect” you mention is caused by the simple fact the sight of a hunting/sniper or target rifle is above the line of the barrel. This means that if say the sight is set to the centre of a target at 100m, the bullet effectively climbs to reach it, and may even strike higher over the next few metres, before dropping back down through the line of sight. Beyond that it bleeds off energy at a predictable rate (calculated using the round’s Ballistic Coefficient) and so it’s trajectory can be plotted and predicted. Sight adjustments are made to take that into account.
As an example, my target rifle has a sight line 1.9” above the bore of the rifle. At 50 m it strikes just under an inch low, on target at 100m, back onto line of sight (secondary zero) around 150m.From there on you need to make increasing elevation corrections. At 915 metres the elevation adjustment required is around 21 feet.
However a high velocity round leaves the barrel and dips, before rising, before levelling off again.
no. bullets cannot fly, ie they do not generate lift. well, there is a thing called aerodynamic jump where side winds can have a minor effect on elevation at long distances. everyone must be familiar with the fact that if you drop a bullet at the same time as letting a gun off which is perfectly horizontal, both bullets will hit the ground at the same time. Also, if you line up a load of different firearms of different bullet weights and muzzle velocities and arrange it so all the bullets leave the muzzle at the same time, they will all hit the ground at the same time, assuming the is no side wind at all. Some will have gone a lot further than others of course.
On the other hand, subsonic rounds by definition are going slowly so have a very lobby trajectory. The bullet drops due to gravity which is constant, and it slows down horizontally as a function of it's ballistic co-efficient, and it's mass.
my target rifle is zeroed at 200yards, to ensure that the bullet has had a change to come up and back down again, ie it is beyond the 2nd zero. i need 24ft at 900 yards with a 200y zero.
Really??? I’m no expert, but the last time I had a go on a firing range with a 22 pistol I was easily hitting the (small) target at twice that range.
Yep, found hitting targets pretty easy on a shooting range. Not being able to hit a 1m target at 8m sounds very odd; unless they were completely pissed.
Knives for e-bikers:
My guess is that it depends on the gun. I've only fired two, one was a .22 pistol, at a range, and I got all my rounds in about a 5cm circle - not sure of the distance though. However with the .45 revolver I was so scared of the recoil that my last round didn't even hit the paper. Completely different.
I wondered what I could have done had I been in there. two things I thought of – one would be using a chair like a lion tamer to try to pin him to a wall
Unless the bloke with the knife is very cooperative about where he puts his arms at best your hands and forearms will get sliced to bits.
haven’t hit anyone since I was in primary school but I cannot be a bystander
I really hope you're in the same pub as me if something kicks off. Not that I expect you'll achieve anything useful but I'm not as quick as I was and could use a couple of extra seconds to leg it.
Scapegoat. Lots of what you said sounded good, but this bit:
but immediately start to drop, in a progressive fashion as they loose energy due to friction(air resistance) and gravity.
The grammar is a bit confusing. Are you saying that they lose energy due to friction and start to drop due to gravity?
Or are you trying to say they lose energy due to friction and gravity?
(Hope it's the former)
Has the OP been watching Steven Seagal movies, in which case being within 1 foot is optimal, also holding the blade opposite the thumb works, as this allows the use of slappy jitsu, so that the good guy doesn't have to actually move or do anything energetic.
Some folk on here know way too much about ‘dodgy stuff’. Someone knew the hourly price of hookers last night ! 🙂
First rule of the internet, surely? If you don't know anything then just invent a response. But make sure you respond with something, anything. The second rule is to assume that at least the first dozen replies on any subject are utter balls. (And in line with my Rules of the Internet, I've invented these. 😀 )
Are you saying that they lose energy due to friction and start to drop due to gravity?
they slow down as soon as they leave the barrel, at a rate determined by the ballistic coefficient and the weight of the bullet, atmospherics such as temp, air density and so on affect this. ie the air slows it down.
Energy is a function of bullet velocity and bullet mass. the bullet has the most energy right at the muzzle, where the mv is the highest, and it loses it all the way until it stops.
Bullets drop vertically at the same rate over time, regardless of how heavy and fast they are.
so, yes.
However with the .45 revolver I was so scared of the recoil that my last round didn’t even hit the paper. Completely different.
My US friend just taughht me to pull the trigger softly so you didn't know exactly when it would fire and thus not anticipate the recoil which would spoil your aim. After that, it was pretty easy firing anything. Although I found the AR15 pretty terrifying - more the fact that anyone just go and buy one and start shooting the place up and there's not a lot that's going to stop one of those rounds - sail right through normal body armour or a car (bar the engine block). Completely insane country.
not anticipate the recoil
No you can still anticipate it, as in - there's a loud noise and unpleasant sensation happening any time now. I liked the small gun did not like the big one at all. Like being inside a water tank as someone hits the outside of it with a sledgehammer, where your hands are.
Yes , they lose energy as a result of air resistance and drop because of gravity.
As target shooting evolves bullet design concentrates on producing a bullet shape which is most efficient. Some of the modern rounds have remarkably low BC, with long, small diameter bullets which due to their length can be heavy.
I use a 6.5mm round weighing 143grains, pushed at 2750 FPS which doesn’t go subsonic until 1300m or so. A 165 grain 7.62mm bullet (pretty common target round) will start to drop under the sound barrier at 800 to 1000 even when pushed at similar or even higher muzzle velocities. It’s the point at which the round goes transonic which causes less predictable trajectories. So the lighter bullet can carry energy further due to its more efficient shape.
Porterjamie & scapegoat.
Sorry, didn't express myself very well my only concern was that someone had written:
they loose energy due to friction(air resistance) and gravity.
Which is clearly bollocks. But it appears like we agree that it's bollocks as written and that gravity has sod all effect on the velocity of a horizontally fired bullet. So that's fine.
Some of the modern rounds have remarkably low BC
pedant alert - very high BC.
my 178 eld (308) is transonic at 1000yards but it only comes out at 2500f[s.
Generally, longer bullets have a better BC (ie they are more aero) and as your diameter is fixed to add length you must add weight. Some bullets have a plastic tip which increases the BC without increasing the weight. your mans 6.5 creedmoor up there is a much more efficient round that the good old 308/7.62 it is fast because it is light, and it has a good BC because the bullet is heavy for calibre and therefore long. at least thats my excuse when a creedmoor puts in a better group
edit add, he is going to say he is 260rem now
that gravity has sod all effect on the velocity of a horizontally fired bullet. So that’s fine.
what about the vertical velocity....
Ah well, all’s well now we’ve cleared that up.
In other news, the training we had was to create distance. Great advice to be fair. I wouldn’t ever want to face anyone skilled in their use. I faced three people wielding knives over the years. The first time was a pissed-up eejit with a carving knife in a kitchen. I shut him in and waited until others got there before rushing him and hitting him with a short piece of wood til he fell over.
Wearing body armour and wielding a baton worked well on the next one. This was a burglar carrying half a pair of tailor’s shears sharpened to a spear point. As I ran in he rushed out and we met in the porch. The blade surprised me as much as I surprised him, and again I simply hit him with the issued side-handled baton til he fell over.
The next one, several years later, produced a butterfly knife. He failed to open it properly before my colleague sprayed him with CS.