Apologies to the purists if I've just invented a new running event category, I mean things like the Glen Lyon Ultra which is 50km/31mile and mostly on trail, or shorter 'mountain' marathon events when you're basically run/walking up and jogging back down (from what I've seen on YouTube at least).
Anyway, right now I'm just a 5km plodder, in fact I haven't even run my local 5km (well actually just over 6km) loop without stops, but I'm improving and it's 2 short downhills with a long and muddy uphill in the middle, so I like to tell myself it's a slightly 'tough' 5km.
Two years ago I ran our local 10km hill/trail race in 54 minutes, it's basically steep and uphill for the first half, a boggy traverse, then a steep downhill with a rude little tarmac kicker before the final steep downhill. I would have done it again this year but it sells out ridiculously fast! There's also a summer 10km in Crieff I really want to have a go at.
So I've got the beginnings of a 'base' and I'm planning to devote more of next winter to running and strength, possibly even work towards running and munro-bagging full time again as my son grows into it.
So just for fun/curiosity, if you know you enjoy it and can already plod out between 5-10km, and have no competitive aspirations, how long (presumably in years?) would it take to be able to 'enjoyably' do one of these ultra events?
You may never enjoy it. I used to regularly(ish) run half-marathon distance and occasionally further and the latter exceeded my threshold for anything close to 'enjoyment'.
In terms of time to train to complete that distance largely depends on your bodies capacity to resist injury. If you are already reasonably fit/strong and have the time to train then 6-12 months would be my aim (i.e. I'd aim to get there in 6m but be prepared to take 12m if my body pushes back on the training plan).
Are you prepared to let the running training get in the way of your cycling? That's been my main takeaway from the past 4 years of running. I managed to get from leisure/occasional runner to marathon in less than a year. Not that long ago but I was a bit younger (still older than you'll be). After a bit of a break, getting back up to marathon/ultra/24hr running took me about the same again.
There's also how you react to the stimulus of an event. For me it always goes beyond an incentive to build/maintain fitness and becomes a bit all-consuming, affecting my ability to just go out for fun. Without having a dig, I think you might fall into this category too
I've now decided that my "fun" distance is more like 25km and I aim to do enough running to be able to do that on an ad hoc basis, popping in regular 10km and occasional 15-18km runs. That should leave more time for riding etc.
Yeah, this ^^
I did a lot of training for ultras and marathons (back when I had working knees) and it is a slog. Type 2 fun for sure. Trail is better/more interesting than road though and can be a lot softer on your feet and knees.
My biggest problem during a lot of my training was my feet. I'd do a long run (18/19 miles or something) and then be lame for two days afterwards. That put me out of both the ultra treaining plan and the marathon training plan and I had the learn to accept after that, that I would only really ever run half-marathons and shorter distances.
In favour of longer distances there's the wider choice of routes and the ability to get into more remote locations. Being "stuck" at 10km is definitely a limit (even where I live) whereas 25km (and more) opens up so many possibilities. A couple of highlights for me over the past 2 years were the Lairig Ghru, from Linn of Dee to the Old Bridge Inn, and Corrour Station (once from Moy and once from Tulloch).
There's also how you react to the stimulus of an event. For me it always goes beyond an incentive to build/maintain fitness and becomes a bit all-consuming, affecting my ability to just go out for fun. Without having a dig, I think you might fall into this category too
Yeah... How did you figure that one out 😂 A depressing fixation on being 'fast' when I've learned again and again that I'm just naturally predisposed to 'getting round'.
I'm considering it as a sort of break from cycling, the variety of running events out there looks quite appealing, am spectating a lot of them through my sister and my wee boy.
Trail is better/more interesting than road though and can be a lot softer on your feet and knees.
Yeah I have no real interest in 100% tarmac over those sorts of distances. I have memories of being able to do long days in the mountains at a reasonable walking pace and think I just liked the idea of taking it a step further.
It really depends on the individual. I can regularly bang out 10k without any issues. I do and sometimes enjoy a half marathon every month, but above that distance, it just starts to hurt. Training is harder and more involved, you need to carry stuff, it needs to be planned and, for me at least, there's usually some form of damage at the end. And always, ALWAYS, the 35km+ bit is just such a complete PITA!.
Having watched my wife doing Ultra s and helped when needed it's surprising the variety of people you see doing them. It's really about keeping moving, walking at a good pace and run the sections you can Most of the back runners are moving very slowly in running mode anyway.
My wife is experienced and does them regularly but cannot run on technical terrain so walks a lot of those sections.
If you train by running and jogging it's surprising how far you can go, I am not a runner and was going to walk a 1/2 M why my Mrs ran it. I ended up walking and jogging to keep ahead of the mascot ! Same for a long distance walk of 26 miles. Was well ahead of my walking schedule and not too far behind my wife .
Just run and jog in training and increase the distance etc.
Good luck
I will add that the lap format is good as well for ultra's on laps.
You can stop for as long as you like after each lap ,a bit like Glentress 7 .
You can finish when you want and the best bit is that no-one really knows what.lap you are on and you have company as you ebb and flow on the course.
My wife likes them as well.
Some great courses as well.
A good way to go for a 50km ultra as well.
I went from running regularly (2-3 times a week) but never really more than ~7 miles in one go and only around 10-12 miles/week total to a month off with Covid in the March to then running my first 50km Trail Ultra 3 months later using the below 12 week plan.
Other than not eating enough on the day due to heat I had no injuries or issues. It was relatively undulating rather than proper hills and mountainous terrain but that's a double edged sword as that meant it was all "runnable", so nowhere really to stop and walk steep ups & downs for a change of pace:
https://uk.pinterest.com/pin/couch-to-50k-training-plan-8-12-and-20-weeks-out--167618417373403871/
I am relatively small and light though, and go to the gym regularly to lift weights so I think my resistance to over-exertion/training injuries is pretty high compared to someone bigger and heavier and that was the case again with the one I did last year.
In contrast to the above comments I definitely couldn't face a multi-lap Ultra, I have only done point to points so once you've started the only way is to keep running to the end (or DNF and get a taxi!) whereas anything with laps you have far more opportunity and temptation to drop out.
It really boils down to time on feet for most people in the build-up, a lot of them have time cutoffs built around people jogging/walking so finishing is generally more a mental push as long as you're happy being on the move all day. I would say in many ways that seems harder to me though, I'm generally finished in ~6hrs for a 50k and when you've had a beer, a nap and some fish & chips on the beach and people are still hobbling in that looks far tougher in a way than actually running it!
I did this in 2018/19
Started with Marcothon in 2018 went on to run the larig ghru hill race in 2019 and wasn't last. .
Keeping a lid on the speed was key - but not avoiding speed work and hills in shorter training runs
I went from an occasional 5k runner to doing a few 50k trail runs and the Snowdonia Trail 50k in one summer 3 years ago. Longest I had run at that point that was a kind of one-off 1/2 trail which killed me, but made me think "if I can do that without proper training, I can do a full one".
I think I entered around September and the event was in June, I got a pretty decent result, the training required...
- 5 or 10k once or twice a week on weekdays (on the road, for convenience)
- Longer trail run on weekends. Probably starting at 10k and working up to 20-30k, but varying each week. By March I think I was aiming for at least 1x 25km run every 2-3 weeks
- Hardly any biking, because this took up a lot of time and I didn't want to risk injury on the bike (it was quite nice to have something different to do though)
Obviously with all those it was starting smaller and ramping up ^^ and some weeks I wouldn't have hit those targets.
If I were to do it again, I would:
- Train more on hills, even if it meant going up and down the same hill again and again. Mountains are very different muscle groups to undulations. Trying to run down hills fast is more tiring than I anticipated.
- Train my stomach. I can't emphasise this enough. I could just about run a 1/2 trail run on empty with no fuel, but after that it became completely about nutrition for me, and you obviously don't need to work on fuelling at all on shorter runs. Legs worked OK, stomach did not. I didn't train to accept food while exercising and it made fuelling on the day really difficult.
- Supplement with some gym work for outright strength, in particular squats, bulgarian split squats, leg extension, lunges, box jumps
- Find an out and back route (personally I find it easy to decide I've had enough and stop early if I'm doing laps!)
- Do more stretching
Also obviously make sure you're completely happy with your shoes and have a nice bedded in pair for the day. I used Altra's cause I like their wide toe-box, and I don't recall having any feet issues, but thats personal.
Enjoy!
I will add that the lap format is good as well for ultra's on laps.
You can stop for as long as you like after each lap ,a bit like Glentress 7 .
You can finish when you want and the best bit is that no-one really knows what.lap you are on and you have company as you ebb and flow on the course.
My wife likes them as well.
Some great courses as well.
A good way to go for a 50km ultra as well.
Yeah, I used the Glenmore 24 to get in my longest ever run (which I'll not be repeating). It was a good way to achieve that goal but nowhere near as good as doing a long run into/through the wilds. I was definitely curious as to whether or not I'd have the mental resilience to carry on each lap but running into and then through the night helped mix it up a bit. It was also decent weather. I'm not sure how I would have reacted if it had been properly minging.
If you train by running and jogging it's surprising how far you can go, I am not a runner and was going to walk a 1/2 M why my Mrs ran it. I ended up walking and jogging to keep ahead of the mascot ! Same for a long distance walk of 26 miles. Was well ahead of my walking schedule and not too far behind my wife .
That reminded me to check a walk I happened to have uploaded to Strava a couple of years ago, three days of the Fife Coastal Path, longest day happened to be marathon distance carrying a lightweight camping setup and wearing Trabuco running shoes. I was probably sore at the end but not sore enough that I didn't do another similar day the next day. 8hr15 for the 'marathon' day, so in theory that's the absolute worse I could do for an off-road marathon 🤣
It's a long term goal, sounds like if I stick to one or two aimless 5-7km runs per week to keep ticking over, work on strength in the off-seasons and start thinking about it seriously winter 2027 after two more years picking off the 'big' rides I want to do, could be a fun objective for summer 2028.
I will also just add that I really wish I'd started running at a younger age 😉
Wear trainers and walk and run as part of daily life on chores like dropping the car for a service.
I am just restarting doing this a bit more to help shift some Christmas pudding.
Mtb dry quick trousers work for me ,to blend in a bit and not look like a runner for the walking bits!
I started ultras just over a year ago. Completed Pendle Way in a Day twice (31 miles). Got 30 miles into the Windermere Lap in September before my knee gave up. Just shaved 1hr 20 mins off last years Pendle Ultra. It is painful and a mental challeneg as much as physical. I mentally approach them as gentle shuffling between feed stations and I listen to a lot of music on my way round.
I only started running properly maybe 2 years ago and I'm not an athlete by any stretch (54yr old) so I don't think it unreasonable for you to be looking at doing 5ks now and build up to ultras.
I did this, went from not running at all at the end of 2022 to a 50km trail ultra in July 2023 after a mate suggested it for the lols. Since then I've done a couple of others inc the Lakeland 5 valleys. When I say not running I mean it as well, not "I wasn't really running, only about 20 miles a week...", it was "haven't run in months, hadn't ran more than 5km in years".
I think it definitely depends on your goals, just getting round is relatively easy, time on your feet in though conditions will sort that out for you and then the additional training just decides how fast you'll finish.
To the best of my recollection I never did more than a 20 mile week and my longest run before any event was a treadmill half marathon but there were a lot of mountain trail runs and "fast packing" trips in the dark and the pissing rain.
Not a fan of laps, I can think of nothing worse. I much prefer a trail point to point, especially if it's remote and grim. I've got a vague plan of 7 valleys this year, 13 next, spine race the year after. 7 valleys is in September so I'll probably start running again in April and be pretty confident of getting round.
This place isn't that bad but some websites etc are really timid with the advice you get, you can't possibly do a slow trail 50km if you haven't done at least 3 years training and several half marathons and ideally at least one actual marathon. You've got to be eating x amount of carbs etc etc and it's all really gatekeepy. If I'd listened to that advice I still wouldn't be a "proper" runner but I wouldn't have done some ultras so...
The best advice I could give is pick an event you'll enjoy, do as much training as you can be arsed with, turn up and see what happens - if you're slow, nobody cares, if you get injured still nobody cares and you'll probably be ok in a week anyway so you might as well just see what happens and enjoy it.
I could bang on about being one of the country's shittest ultra runners all day!
Oh, audiobooks are the way forward btw.
I did a 55km run about few years ago - longest run prior to that was 20 miles but have done marathons and Ironman many years ago. I did it for fun - didn’t want the expense of an organised event, so took the train from near home at the time to the other side of Dorking and came back on the North Downs Way. There were a couple of cafes en route so used them as refuelling spots. The key thing was getting the right pace. I did a 66km ‘walk’ a few years earlier and found that fast walking is far harder on joints and muscles than a jog-shuffle. Learning to use running poles correctly also helps, particularly if it’s hilly.
Finding the right footwear (shoes + socks) that doesn’t cause blisters was a big help. From a training POV, doing something like a 30km/20 miler beforehand as part of your build-up should help in terms of a gear shake-down, pacing and refuelling - things start to feel very different after 2-3 hours.
Awesome thread OP. I've just wasted some money on some running shoes with no real idea of what I'm aiming for. Whether I'll just crawl back to 10k capability or do something longer I have no idea. But great to hear other people thinking the same thing
For my 60th last August I rode the SDW in a day and I just happened to notice that Eastbourne to Ditching Beacon is pretty much exactly a marathon so I've decided I want to run it before turning 61. I'm up to 20k at the moment on the downs and it's going pretty well. For me it's my feet that seem to suffer the most
For my 60th last August I rode the SDW in a day and I just happened to notice that Eastbourne to Ditching Beacon is pretty much exactly a marathon so I've decided I want to run it before turning 61. I'm up to 20k at the moment on the downs and it's going pretty well. For me it's my feet that seem to suffer the most