But what does that "truth" give them access to besides a misplaced sense of smugness?
A community.
people like Sargent build their lives around lunacy like Flat Earth. It's like a religion,
Why are flat earther and religious followers treated differently? Why is one group regarded as nutjobs believing something with no evidence to back iit up, and the other not regarded as such, even though the belief is equally strange? Is it just a numbers thing? The DSM specifically exudes religion as a mental illness, despite it meeting all the criteria to be classed as one, simply because it so common.
But what does that "truth" give them access to besides a misplaced sense of smugness?
A community
See also: religion
If the Earth was flat someone would have built a theme park to look over the edge.
There’d be cats all along the edge pushing things off!
15 minute cities is the one I just can't get my head around.
I can just about understand the superficial appeal of some of the other conspiracy theories. "Going to the moon seems really hard we must have faked it". "Gee, Billy Bob, Kansas sure is flat, I bet the Earth is" etc.
But how do you go from more corner shops to we are all going to be imprisoned in "15 minute zones"
All is revealed…
https://bbc.com/audio/play/p0h24kbq
Though you guys will already be aware of this because it is already happening in the UK and Australia
Yes, it's a key part of the Sharia Law we all live under here in the UK
I run a monthly event with a couple of guys who I like, but wouldn’t say we’re politically aligned. Recently one of them mentioned that the UK is now extremely unsafe - women are being randomly attacked in the streets etc etc. I actually just nodded and said “wow I hope my mum and sister ok, they haven’t mentioned anything yet.” I don’t bother to ask where they heard this from… I guess it’s the modern equivalent to “I read it in the Sun” or from “a bloke down the pub.”
The DSM specifically exudes religion as a mental illness, despite it meeting all the criteria to be classed as one, simply because it so common.
I think that the DSM actually excludes delusional beliefs on their own as a marker of mental illness. It’s normal to believe things that are wrong.
Why are flat earther and religious followers treated differently? Why is one group regarded as nutjobs believing something with no evidence to back iit up, and the other not regarded as such, even though the belief is equally strange? Is it just a numbers thing?
WERE A CRISTIAN CUNNTRY!!1! Y DO U H8 CHEESES?
It probably is a numbers game, truth be told. These sorts of conversations quickly start using words like "normal." What exactly is the "typical" in neurotypical? It just means there's more of them. If they were the minority, we'd have support groups for them.
Christianity in the UK is dying, fast. And it's being supplanted not by a Muslim invasion as the shitrags would have us believe, but by Atheists.
Why are flat earther and religious followers treated differently? Why is one group regarded as nutjobs believing something with no evidence to back iit up, and the other not regarded as such, even though the belief is equally strange?
Because it's very easy to disprove Flat Earth with even a basic grasp of physics. To actually believe it, you either have to be unbelievably thick or you're actually grifting.
Religion is much more nuanced and while there are absolutely grifters and charlatans operating under the guise of religion, it's kind of difficult to prove / disprove anything plus there's a strong cultural element to it.
In among the bad things, religion has also given us a lot of good things. In no way am I condoning the crusades, inquisition, systemic child abuse, etc., or even equating them but without religion there's no St Pauls, no Blue Mosque, no Sagrada Familia.
The day the flat earthers build something to rival Durham Cathedral in homage to their belief, that's when I might start to be a bit more tolerant towards them.
Because it's very easy to disprove Flat Earth with even a basic grasp of physics. To actually believe it, you either have to be unbelievably thick or you're actually grifting.
Religion is much more nuanced and while there are absolutely grifters and charlatans operating under the guise of religion, it's kind of difficult to prove / disprove anything plus there's a strong cultural element to it.
Given your specific examples I'm not seeing much of a difference here. Basic Physics dismisses both of these standpoints and strong culture embraces them.
Proof is easier to argue. Disproof, less so.
without religion there's no St Pauls, no Blue Mosque, no Sagrada Familia.
Is that the case for the defence? A few buildings (impressive buildings, granted)? I can see the judge reaching for his black cap now! As none of those examples were built in the last century or 3, or millennium even, perhaps it's time to consign the whole shabang to historical curiosity and tourist attractions? 😉
Charles Rennie MacKintosh wasn't religious and he gave us plenty, as were Monet, Picasso, Bacon. Then you've got Debussy, Rimsky-Korsakov, Saint-Saens, Verdi, etc.
Plenty of exquisite art has been produced without religion getting involved.
Oh jeez, this is a thread about conspiracy theories, don't take everything seriously! I'm not saying all art has to be religious or that religious art is 'better' in any way, but show me a building as impressive as Durham Cathedral that wasn't inspired by religion
(and I'm not accepting massive hotel type skyscrapers because they're all inspired by capitalism, the god of money. Sports stadia - akin to religion.
And anyway
As none of those examples were built in the last century or 3, or millennium even
Sagrada Familia's not even finished yet, proving what a vital force for good the Catholic church remains even now 😉
without religion there's no St Pauls, no Blue Mosque, no Sagrada Familia.
Everytime I see these sort of things I think of all the peasants living in poverty that paid for these ego driven white elephants. Just think what good could have been done with that money
It provided employment for most of them, and a sense of purpose. Rone would love it, building stuff without worrying about the bill!
but without religion there's no...
We've done this before; take your pick of; secularism, political plurality, empiricism, the universities, Kelper, Bacon, Newton, Boyle, Mendel...There's much to criticise, but pretty much anything you want to point at has roots in organised religion, especially pre-Renaissance. If only because at some points in history, they're the only educated people.
Just think what good could have been done with that money
[Before the reformation] the monasteries were the primary source of 'relief' for the poor, and it's not until the early secular states get involved, that you start to get punitive laws/actions to criminalise them
Nickc - all the effort that went into building those things could have been used to improve conditions for the poor. How many houses could be built for one cathedral?
Just because they got given a few crumbs does not alter the fact that a huge amount of wealth was used to build those structures. Wealth that could have been used to better the lot of the masses. wealth that was removed from the economy to build these huge structures
As for education amongst the religious. thats because they deliberately gatekept knowledge usaing languages that the peasants could not understand. We still have the remnants of that today in the pig latin and greek used in medicine.
How many houses could be built for one cathedral?
Medieval cathedral building didn't stop house building, most the town and cities that sprung up around cathedrals - often otherwise built in the middle of nowhere were built at the same time, and housed the people (often generationally) that built the catherdrals. And of course post-reformation, houses were in fact built from their ruins
thats because they deliberately gatekept knowledge
Apart from obviously; the universities. See also the guild system which also (checks notes) deliberately gatekept knowledge - including the knowledge of stone masonry that helped build the cathedrals that were both major local employers and the poor relief...
Plus also - the medieval world, including the poor wouldn't have understood the concept of wealth redistribution. To them, both poor and rich are part of God's plan, and you are where God intended you to be - The poor are (in this world) the 'better off' - at least spiritually, and it's the very wealthy that have to work hard at good deeds- (which they're very much doing BTW - if their immortal souls are to be redeemed) in order to get over the very deep suspicion and moral and spiritual hazard that wealth bought.
Oh god, this all went a bit serious.
What about Elvis, is he really dead?
no, I thought he's driving bus on the moon? At least that's what that newspaper claimed that time...
I thought Elvis worked down the chip shop?
I mean, there’s a song about it and everything
Medieval cathedral building didn't stop house building, most the town and cities that sprung up around cathedrals - often otherwise built in the middle of nowhere were built at the same time
Do you mean monasteries since the Cathedrals were generally built in existing urban centres. As indeed were many monasteries depending on the order in question. Its just the out of town ones tended to survive better since you only need so many farm houses.
The primary problem with going "roots in organised religion" is very chicken and egg in western Europe. For various reasons the church was tightly tied into the political power structures early on with the traditional aristocratic pattern being for the spares to be married of or put into the church in a political position.
Those functions were needed and so some mechanism would have been created to support it if not the church. Whether, as in some parts of the world, that was a civil service far earlier than our ones.
Apart from obviously; the universities.
Not a great example in the UK considering how Oxford and Cambridge were tightly tied for most of their history to the church and did their best to prevent any other university from existing (fun fact when the Northampton polytechnic wanted to become a university they had to go to the privy council to have a royal decree by Henry III which had closed down the first university there revoked)
If only because at some points in history, they're the only educated people.
Is that actually true? I thought the notion that the peasants were largely illiterate was a myth.
If only because at some points in history, they're the only educated people.
Is that actually true? I thought the notion that the peasants were largely illiterate was a myth.
There's a very good episode of the "You're Dead to me" podcast that covers early printing, and yes, even after the arrival of printing, literacy was rare as books were expensive.
Has this thread drifted?
“They” have clearly deployed bots to derail the thread as it was getting too close to the truth.
I thought Elvis worked down the chip shop?
I mean, there’s a song about it and everything
As is clearly documented, "there's a guy works down the chip shop SWEARS he's Elvis". But as is then clearly laid out, he's a liar, or as the song was from the 80's and we're far more aware now, possibly schizophrenic or delusional and deserves empathy rather than ridicule.
But anyway - it demonstrates well how a statement can be twisted and the less detail orientated then pick up on it, multiply it through the socials and a true statement metamorphoses into a different untrue statement but which gets accepted 'as truth' unless unchallenged.
So I'm calling you out. Elvis never worked down Kirsty MacColl's chippy, and everything that you say hence or previously should be duly marked as from an unreliable source 😉
a man of all seasons
Disappointed. You missed ^
I wouldn't want to question your dedication to the task but this does raise questions. Don't forget it's your job to never let anything go and always have the last word!
Back on topic. The thing that worries me is the fact these things gain any traction at all. We have gone from the local nutter everyone ignores/shuns, to gangs of local nutters. They have a stage to perform on, an international audience and merchandising opportunities.
The old fashioned system of shaming (has almost been censored/discouraged out of existence) doesn't work because money talks and that's all that matters.
As none of those examples were built in the last century or 3, or millennium even
They’re still putting the finishing touches to the Sagrada Família, the groundbreaking took place 144 years ago - it’s due to be finished in 2034, so your point is?
I'm telling ya, cars are the canary in the coalmine
http://youtube.com/post/UgkxOOpx0JSHSxuBgVfsBlfkk1mWDKY6AvaX?si=gHSRze852hdu_3QA
https://consumerrights.wiki/w/Ford#Lip-reading_and_facial_expression_detection_patent_application
The application describes a vehicle that detects when it is in a convertible state (top retracted, panel removed, door removed, or sunroof open) and, if cabin noise exceeds a threshold, switches its in-vehicle communication system into an enhanced mode.[12] The enhanced mode can enable a lip reading mode and a gesture and facial expression detection mode. The application states that "[t]he one or more cameras of the vehicle capture the movements of the user's lips" and that the captured video is processed using machine learning algorithms trained on datasets of lip movements.[13]
.....
You connected your phone to the car? Cool let's monetize the shit out of you. What can we learn...hmm where you go, when, with whom, what you say... Easy yes yes, how about who you want to f__k??? Sounds profitable:)
If that was the goal then why bother detecting a "convertible state" rather than running continually?
If that was the goal then why bother detecting a "convertible state" rather than running continually?
Assume the lip reading mode which is probably not as accurate as the regular microphone
If (from that NY post article) it is collecting information on your sexual activity, can we expect a list ranking that cars most likely to attract the oppsosite sex?
I'm mentioning a few things at once. Keep up at the back.
Convertible state - because of the wind noise
Likely next use-case on all the time, d'uh
Edit yeah Nissan and Kia admit they collect this level of extremely personal info from users (likely via the App. On your phone) It's not the same as the above Ford thing, luckily, or it would think I wanted to frack half the cars on the road ("Get out of my way you f___")
"A community."
Good point, I'd overlooked that some people feel the need to belong to something.
(fun fact when the Northampton polytechnic wanted to become a university they had to go to the privy council to have a royal decree by Henry III which had closed down the first university there revoked)
I love this sort of stuff: like when they wanted to move the Smithfield Wholesale market, the council ran into a planning issue that revolved around a Royal Charter from 1247 that prevented a rival market within the distance you could drive sheep in a day. I think it took an act of parliament to sort it out!
Edit yeah Nissan and Kia admit they collect this level of extremely personal info from users
Do they?
Where?
Uh here
https://www.kia.com/uk/privacy/ (6.3.1)
And
https://www.nissanusa.com/privacy.html
(I note sexual preferences are not listed here at this time, though your browsing history is....)
Source
You connected your phone to the car? Cool let's monetize the shit out of you. What can we learn...
My phone already did all the tracking and data mining that I couldn't prevent. It's out there being sold around. Maybe data being less concentrated within a few companies isn't a bad thing.
Why are flat earther and religious followers treated differently? Why is one group regarded as nutjobs believing something with no evidence to back iit up, and the other not regarded as such, even though the belief is equally strange? Is it just a numbers thing? The DSM specifically exudes religion as a mental illness, despite it meeting all the criteria to be classed as one, simply because it so common.
I'm not religious and I don't want to aid topic drift, but I see the difference between believing in something that is easy to disprove (flat earth) and having faith in something that is difficult to prove or disprove. If we're in a relationship we understand faith - you can't 100% prove someone loves you so you trust how you feel about it all, and that trust is easier for some than others. Similar with religion I think.
Personally I'd see following the rat race as equally mentally ill as the religious follower - it's not mentally ill, just taking a path in life that helps them understand the world and fit into it.
Back towards topic, there are a few of these theories that help people try to understand the world and that's when they might get dangerous or where they are like a religion. And there's branches of religions that form cults that are conspiracy-based. Branch Davidians, etc.
Where it gets interesting to me is how many strong critical thinkers also follow a religion or are open to the idea. I don't think many of those people are open to Lizard Men Illuminatae theories. Perhaps it's about religion having positive aims and connections (generally), trying to help us understand our lives and mortality. And if the existence of 'god' is impossible to prove or disprove, it becomes a high level expression of faith. It feels good to be able to hold faith in something, like the opposite of cynicism. Whereas a conspiracy theory tends to be cynical, negative and can be disproven or looks really unlikely, it doesn't seem to be in our interests to have any faith in that stuff. (I realise negative stuff comes from religion .. another topic)
Nissan privacy policy circa July 2023
https://web.archive.org/web/20230923145847/https://www.nissanusa.com/privacy.html
"
Types of Personal Data collected
sensitive personal information, including driver’s license number, national or state identification number, citizenship status, immigration status, race, national origin, religious or philosophical beliefs, sexual orientation, sexual activity, precise geolocation, health diagnosis data, and genetic information"
So they have either stopped of they're making it impossible to find in the current policy.
Note they're still collecting everything they can, no question
Why are flat earther and religious followers treated differently?
Heres a useful analogy for the flat earth thing.
In their youth before people had phones and internet to keep them entertained my dad and his pal had a game they liked to play. Sitting in a busy public space like a cafe they'd start a conversation along these lines (they'd take turns playing each off the roles)
Person 1: I was in town at the weekend and I saw this great One Man Band playing outside the libary
Person 2: You saw a what?
Person 1: a One Man Band
Person 2: What's a One Man Band?
Person 1 would then explain what a One Man Band is
Person 2: Thats impossible. You're making it up
they'd then have an argument about whether or not there was any such thing as a one man band. Crucially not because Person 2 had never heard of a one man band, but that One Man Bands were impossible.
After a short while people on neighbouring tables couldn't help but join in the conversation.
The game ended when a complete stranger was standing in front of them miming a one man band while Person 2 gave them ever more elaborate scenarios to demonstrate, that would surely disproved this whole One Man Band conspiracy. "well if you're playing the bass drum by stamping your foot how are you playing your cymbals with your knees a the same time?"
What all the people who chose to engage with Flat Earthers seem not to realise is - YOU are the entertainment. The flat earth theories themselves whats fun for them so much its watching apparently rational people wriggle through every maze they set for them. Again and again and again.
What all the people who chose to engage with Flat Earthers seem not to realise is - YOU are the entertainment. The flat earth theories themselves whats fun for them so much its watching apparently rational people wriggle through every maze they set for them. Again and again and again.
Sounds very much like several of the regular forumites.
