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Posted by: nickc

There's not a huge amount of evidence for it

there is if you want to see it

 

for someone who states he is a nonbeliever you dont half give unquestioning faith in the religious institutions and wilful blindness to their failings and cruelties 


 
Posted : 14/04/2026 9:46 am
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No I don't. There's no evidence for it as mostly the wealthy are only interested in themselves if they are writing things down, and the peasants aren't leaving much in the way of personal writing for historians to examine. I'm not saying peasants lot wasn't bad- it was just not in the way that Hollywood and TV portray it. The local priest and the local landlord in the are the only institutions that are assisting them - either local poor assistance, or mostly providing additional food on feast days and festivals. Peasants are being exploited - both their productivity is bad (not lazy, just everything is done by hand for little return) and they are being tithed and some of their product is being extracted. But the church and the local landowner need the peasantry just as much. 

There is obviously examples of exploitation, but that's not the overwhelming experience; over human history the vast majority of humans have been peasant farmers, and most of them lived out their lives pretty peacefully even if by our standards it was a life of drudgery

Posted by: tjagain

you dont half give unquestioning faith in the religious institutions and wilful blindness to their failings and cruelties 

I don't, I just don't have your overly generalisation of "All religions bad" colouring my understanding the actuality of the medieval/early modern experience. You often regard "The Church" as one encompassing entity that moves singularly and has just the one corporate outlook, when even just a passing understanding of the myriad diverse schisms and radically different experiences is more realistic. 

Take the Spanish in South America, yes some of the conquistadors are burning the locals, but at the same time, Queen Isabella is sanctioning Columbus for enslaving who she regards as Spanish citizens against the law, and some Spaniards are reporting local priests for being too harsh, and are in fact pretty respectful of local traditions. Yes we gave them new diseases, but they did the same to the Europeans - syphilis. You can't just say "religion = bad" just because you don't like the modern church. It's ahistorical 


 
Posted : 14/04/2026 12:09 pm
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Yes we gave them new diseases, but they did the same to the Europeans - syphilis.

Oh my word.


 
Posted : 14/04/2026 12:22 pm
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