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I'd honestly like to know what the forum Tories (not the ultra right ideologs, the old school, one nation crew) think about it.
If there was ever a time for tories to be shy this is probably it 🙂
Dublin expressing concern
Ireland’s prime minister has issued a warning to Theresa May over her plans to do a deal with the DUP to prop up a Tory minority government.
I'm sure no-one needs a refresher on Northern Ireland's political state at the moment
Theresa May needs a crash course on the Good Friday agreement.
Just read (on the Express so I'll not link it) that one of the Tory MPs is floating the idea that whilst they've no chance of repealing LGBTetc rights, one of the policies they could offer to the DUP as a bargaining chip is a reduction in abortion rights.
It's going to end well is this, isn't it.
Edukator - Reformed TrollTheresa May needs a crash course on the Good Friday agreement.
Theresa May has nothing more to learn about crashing
😆
i believe the argument is a for a reduction of the weeks time at which you can still have an abortionone of the policies they could offer to the DUP as a bargaining chip is a reduction in abortion rights.
Given we have premature babies born and surviving within the abortion period [ its 50% at 24 weeks which is the limit] it is at least worthy of consideration
I remain pro choice FWIW but the weeks number may need to be revised as medical technology advances
Sorry, yes, you're right; I meant to say that but it got lost in translation when I posted.
Theresa May needs a crash course on the Good Friday agreement.
The announcement that Enda Kenny has spoken to May about his concerns is probably only the tip of the iceberg. So far we have not heard anything from the likes of John Major, Tony Blair, Bill Clinton etc., but they and other senior politicians and establishment figures invested a lot of effort in getting the Good Friday Agreement, and they are almost certainly talking to each other about what action to take, and they still have a lot of influence especially collectively. I imagine that the Foreign Office and possibly May personally has already received a message from the US State Department couched in friendly terms but neverthless warning of US concern that any deal with the DUP does not upset the Good Friday Agreement.
If you ever need an example that tories care more about power and personal influence than what is in the national good, then this is it.
Well some of the lefties here where asking wjether Sinn Fein might take thie seats at Westminster to vote with Labour
True, but that wasn't particularly with a view to forming a coalition / alliance, more on whether SF would take their seats (and that would be a major change if they did) as a means of derailing the ConDUP position.
Just read (on the Express so I'll not link it) that one of the Tory MPs is floating the idea that whilst they've no chance of repealing LGBTetc rights, one of the policies they could offer to the DUP as a bargaining chip is a reduction in abortion rights.
And give all the other parties an open goal about how the Tories hate women.
Well some of the lefties here where asking wjether Sinn Fein might take thie seats at Westminster to vote with Labour
That's the best you've got? 😆
100-150 majority
theotherjonv - MemberTrue, but that wasn't particularly with a view to forming a coalition / alliance, more on whether SF would take their seats (and that would be a major change if they did) as a means of derailing the ConDUP position.
There's over 100 years of Sinn Fein abstentionism. I really can't imagine they'll ever go back on this and my personal view is that it would undermine (to a degree) their support with more hardline republicans.
With Brexit, The Good Friday Agreement in jeapordy and the potential for dissidents to exploit the situation I think they wouldn't risk conceding this.
Unsurprisingly it seems the Taoiseach has raised concerns about the DUP Tory agreement and the GFA.
Well some of the lefties here where asking wjether Sinn Fein might take thie seats at Westminster to vote with Labour
They asked what SF might do they did not jump into bed with them or suggest it was a good idea to do this. It was a question not a suggestion. Weak very very weak
it brings a tear to my eye to note that the RW are not able to defend what May has achieved or done since her great achievement;that is beautiful to watch
I dont think there will ever be another election where the "winners" are so much less happy than the "losers"
Bless you jamby and your ilk as you deal with t not 100-150 seats but the loss of the majority, the crumbling of a hard brexit wet dream* and have to partner up with what you would term terrorist sympathisers if it was corbyn doing it
* seen who is first minister of state - remain board member......none of your dreams remain unaffected do they 😆
@jimjam; I know and I agree, can't see it ever happening. Was a response to jamba's comment that 'we' shouldn't point at the Tories dropping their pants for the DUP when someone (who possibly didn't understand the situation) had queried whether SF might take their seats and make the quotient 650 rather than the de facto 643.
Totally won't happen, totally different situation, just another spurious defence for the indefensible.
the only possible reason they can have is to "topple the British govt/remove the DUP from it". It might wash with their voters?The Good Friday Agreement in jeapordy and the potential for dissidents to exploit the situation I think they wouldn't risk conceding this
I dont think they will do it I am not even sure they will consider doing it.I
Seems she's got the go-ahead to form a Government... by lying to the Queen. 😯
she lied to the people so why not the monarch
On their side bar of shame some frightening stuff they [DUP] have said like a sort of religious version of UKIP only nuttier and more right wing 😯
There can be no viler act, apart from homosexuality and sodomy, than sexually abusing innocent children.I cannot think of anything more sickening than a child being abused. It is comparable to the act of homosexuality. I think they are all comparable. I feel totally repulsed by both.
Iris Robinson, former MP for Strangford, and wife of former First Minister for Northern Ireland, Peter Robinson speaking in the House of Commons in 2008.
OMFG
Junkyard votes in favour of a Marxist chancellor, and loses, then sneers at the mandate that JC wasn't given and still somehow feels victorious.
Deniers will deny, but all credibility evaporates the moment you vote Marxist.
[img] 
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The Queen, (or whoever is the monarch at the time) is supposed to generally stay out of politics.
However things are getting a bit creepy now, the Queen should probably make a public statement, maybe she's waiting a week or so to let the infighting calm down, but as the Queen I'd expect her to make some kind of public statement given the mess that's unfolding.
[quote=enfht ]Junkyard votes in favour of a Marxist chancellor, and loses, then sneers at the mandate that JC wasn't given and still somehow feels victorious.
Deniers will deny, but all credibility evaporates the moment you vote Marxist.
i did not vote for a Marxist and I am not one- trust me i have read it he considers me to be a capitalist* FWIW
I have no shame in espousing my left wing views on here and I can speak about them openly and honestly unlike you who cannot air your true views for the ban hammer would fall.
As for the result it is indeed a strange election when the losers are happier than the winners and boy am I happier than you right now 😆 The RW dont seem to have learnt anything and still wish to just attack Corbyn, or his supporters, rather than explain why the policies they espouse are so wonderful - watch the hammer when you do and stay away from "multicultarlism"
Forgive me if I reject the moral lecture from you but having no credibility in your eyes is a relief to me if not to you.
* i care only about equality of distribution not ownership as i am sure you appreciate the distinction as you seem the scholarly type.
Enfield North: Lab HOLD
Enfield Southgate: Lab GAIN from Con
No wonder he's a bit antsy.
May is on her way out and is struggling to hold on to some semblance of power now. She's a dead parrot.
Junkyard - lazarus
"There can be no viler act, apart from homosexuality and sodomy, than sexually abusing innocent children.
I cannot think of anything more sickening than a child being abused. It is comparable to the act of homosexuality. I think they are all comparable. I feel totally repulsed by both."
Iris Robinson, former MP for Strangford, and wife of former First Minister for Northern Ireland, Peter Robinson speaking in the House of Commons in 2008.
There may be some considerable pressure on Theresa to find those missing files, and bang, there goes another few MPs (and Lords).
I see the Tories still plan to ally themselves with the DUP, legitimising their creationist, climage change denying, racist, homophobic, sexist, backwards bigotry. Just so they can cling to power
Immediately after suffering electoral humiliation at the hands of young people who have grown up decades apart from that kind of ignorance and consider it abhorrent.
Its excellent, the Tories have obviously learnt nothing from this, - I thought it was supposed to be Labour that were going to be shooting themselves in the foot
Restrained?! Shooting Her Majesty's prison officers, just one of his many terrorist crimes.Kelly from Sinn Fein was on Sky a few minutes ago. Balanced, reasonable objectives outlined - a special status for NI post Brexit which avoids a hard border. A suggestion that May read the Good Friday agreement. Highly skeptical about the DUP gaining any advantage from an alliance with the Tories. I hope they're all as restrained as him.
Let's not forget the DUP is the largest party in Northern Ireland (part of the UK) so why shouldn't they be allowed to form part of the government?
"There can be no viler act, apart from homosexuality and sodomy, than sexually abusing innocent children.
Apart from the fact that homosexuality (and indeed sodomy, if that floats your boat) are not vile acts, they believe that they are [b][u]VILER[/u][/b] than child abuse?
Horrible.
(what do Mumsnet's Centerparcs afficionados have to say on this matter)
The Queen can invite the current PM to form a government if she has a majority or can command the confidence of the house. Currently Mrs May has neither and Mr Cornyn still has a chance at the job. Looking more and more like a September or October rematch.
It's not that that they shouldn't be able to,it's what it says about their desperate coalition partners that bothers us.Only the desperate would ?
Oh,and the difference between homosexuality and paedophilia is that homosexuality takes place between consenting adults,and paedophilia doesn't (clarification for any Tory supporters)
so why shouldn't they be allowed to form part of the government?
Agreed especially as their association with the Tories will help retoxify the nasty party 😀
Sadly violating the Good Friday Agreement is of minimal concern to the Tories and their fans
Let's not forget the DUP is the largest party in Northern Ireland (part of the UK) so why shouldn't they be allowed to form part of the government?
No-one's saying they aren't.
Just that some of their views are so off with modern, multicultural, multi-sexuality Britain, that any party trying to form a government would IMHO be well advised to distance themselves from, not ally themselves to them.
I have no shame in espousing my left wing views on here and I can speak about them openly and honestly unlike you who cannot air your true views for the ban hammer would fall.
We don't tend to ban people for having strange opinions (I'm very much opposed to selective censorship to a point where I'd hand back my hat if that became policy). Which is probably just as well for some folk.
[url= http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/video-appears-show-clashes-during-13169137 ]It's started...[/url]
Ah bless,they just can't help themselves,can they?
Oh,and the difference between homosexuality and paedophilia is that homosexuality takes place between consenting adults,and paedophilia doesn't (clarification for any Tory supporters)
My inner pedant would like to point out that neither of those things are acts which take place. You can be on your own and still be homosexual. (Or I suppose, a nonce for that matter.)
This is slightly important in light of Jon's comment, as it makes it worse:
Apart from the fact that homosexuality (and indeed sodomy, if that floats your boat) are not vile acts, they believe that they are VILER than child abuse?
So, they're implying that simply being homosexual is viler than actually abusing children.
So how many people were killed by the UDA during the troubles ? Is it a competition ?v - Member - Block User
Kelly from Sinn Fein was on Sky a few minutes ago. Balanced, reasonable objectives outlined - a special status for NI post Brexit which avoids a hard border. A suggestion that May read the Good Friday agreement. Highly skeptical about the DUP gaining any advantage from an alliance with the Tories. I hope they're all as restrained as him.
Restrained?! Shooting Her Majesty's prison officers, just one of his many terrorist crimes.
Let's not forget the DUP is the largest party in Northern Ireland (part of the UK) so why shouldn't they be allowed to form part of the government?
They're not gonna be part of the government.
They're gonna be propping it up with their votes in exchange for a few shiny baubles.
Though I hope and expect there will be enough conscientious objectors among the Tories to derail some of their more unpleasant plans.
Wasn't much of a fight in that video
Though I hope and expect there will be enough conscientious objectors among the Tories to derail some of their more unpleasant plans.
Hypothetically,
If some elected MPs actually objected sufficiently to stand down / switch parties, would May then have to fill more seats to secure a majority? I'm assuming the number of seats required is Right Now rather than at the point the vote was counted. Is that something that could happen?
Cougar,thanks for the correction,you are of course pedantic,and correct,but the practice is different,isn't it ?
It's started...
Has it?
[i]"Supporters said it was a pre-planned march and not a response to the General Election fall-out."[/i]
(-:
the practice is different,isn't it ?
Different from what, sorry?
My point was that it appears they're saying that being gay and not acting on it is worse than being a paedophile and acting on it.
implying
Ah, [i]implying[/i], right...
Just that some of their views are so off with modern, multicultural, multi-sexuality Britain
Yeah, that democracy thing, you know, the one that people voted for them under...
theotherjonvApart from the fact that homosexuality (and indeed sodomy, if that floats your boat) are not vile acts, they believe that they are VILER than child abuse?
Horrible.
That's nothing. Did you know homosexuals cause hurricanes?
Sorry Cougar,actually trying to agree with you.
So how many people were killed by the UDA during the troubles ? Is it a competition ?
Nobody claimed they were being restrained in their comments. If it was a competition the PIRA can claim most killed and indeed most Roman Catholics killed.
Some people find the Tories/Labour manifestos disgusting doesn't stop them running the UK!
Ah, implying, right...
Oh, sure, if I'm wrong then they're simply saying that anal sex between two consenting adults is worse than abusing children. That's totally better and a stance I'd be leaping to defend.
I do worry about you sometimes.
Except, not
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2008/jul/22/northernireland.gayrights
[i]"I clearly intended to say that child abuse was worse than even homosexuality and sodomy ... At no point have I set out to suggest homosexuality was worse than child sex abuse."[/i]
Tory boi now trying to defend the underendable - hysterical.
Does he learn from his mistakes or prefer to just live like a mushroom?
So why was she so careful to make the distinction,if she didn't mean it ?
Yeah, that democracy thing, you know, the one that people voted for them under...
Like I said, perfectly legitimate for them to stand on those issues and indeed for people to vote for them, and for them to gain seats on that basis and take up those seats and represent their views and the views of their followers IN PARLIAMENT
And if they get (heaven forbid) enough followers and enough seats to be the majority party then I suppose democracy means that they can form a government based on those views. That's democracy.
But democracy doesn't mean that you should go into alliance with them if their views are so far removed from your party's views and the modern society we value.
So why have the tories done it?
Do they find those views acceptable?
Or are they (is SHE) so desperate to cling to power she'll hold her nose however shitty the smell?
Or is there another reason? I'll offer one - that she believes she can change their views as part of the co-operation. In which case I'll add deluded to power-crazed, and expect when she finds they have her over a barrel (she needs them far more that the other way round) she'll do the honest thing and say that the co-operation is no longer fit to govern.
Fair?
If some elected MPs actually objected sufficiently to stand down / switch parties, would May then have to fill more seats to secure a majority? I'm assuming the number of seats required is Right Now rather than at the point the vote was counted. Is that something that could happen?
If they switch sides - called crossing the floor- then they do not need to stand down as an MP and it reduces her effective majority by 2.
for her to loose, by convention, she needs to lose a no confidence vote rather than just be beaten on a vote. TBH once/if this happens regularly they will call another GE
"I clearly intended to say that child abuse was worse than even homosexuality and sodomy ... At no point have I set out to suggest homosexuality was worse than child sex abuse."
So when they [i]actually [/i]said that homosexuality was worse than child abuse, they subsequently clarified that they [i]really[/i] meant to say that homosexuality was exactly the same as child abuse. That's totally better and a stance I'd be leaping to defend.
I've a spade you can borrow if you like?
I think she made herself perfectly unclear by mis-speaking, (hardly the first MP to do that) but was very careful to clarify
A fuller explanation here
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/robinson-disputes-reporting-of-anti-gay-comments-1.946258
Not views that I agree with on homosexuality, but since they're not illegal ones I would entirely defend her right to hold
That's totally better and a stance I'd be leaping to defend.
You probably want to avoid reading those bits about Aisha in the Koran then.
[quote=thejesmonddingo ]So why was she so careful to make the distinction,if she didn't mean it ?
like clarkson they tried so hard to not say it that they said it OBVS
To be fair Iris Robinson was a woman with upstanding morals and no hypocrisy or scandal about her.
Just like her husband.
A fuller explanation herehttp://www.irishtimes.com/news/robinson-disputes-reporting-of-anti-gay-comments-1.946258
[i]what I clearly intended to say was that child abuse was worse [b]even [/b]than homosexuality and sodomy," she said.[/i]
That's totally better and a stance I'd be leaping to defend.
😆To be fair Iris Robinson was a woman with upstanding morals and no hypocrisy or scandal about her
So she had no idea about the corruption involved in the RHI scandal,which her husband was part of ?
Not guilty of,obvs.
You probably want to avoid reading those bits about Aisha in the Koran then.
Sorry, I missed that, I was too busy reading about non sequiturs and straw men.
No she predates RHI with her hypocrisy 🙂
wonder what all the homosexuals in the tory party think of the dup-pers, theyll not bend over backwards to make them welcome.
cv: The Good Friday agreement was/is two-sided. The British government agreed to give up its arms (army, orange-doninated RUC, special services working with loyalist paramilitary groups) and the likes of Kelly renounced violence too. The British government signed up to impartiality. It's worked. It's based on trust, I trust kelly not to go back to his old ways, he needs to be able to trust the British government not to go back to its old ways of favouring the Unionists.
British government not to go back to its old ways of favouring the Unionists.
I'd favour anybody that wouldn't try to kill me or my family!
That'll be anybody committed to the peace process then.
From wiki;
Kelly later became a leading member of Sinn Féin and played a role in the Northern Ireland peace process negotiations that led to the Good Friday Agreement on 10 April 1998. In promoting the peace process he had talks with Nelson Mandela, Thabo Mbeki, Bill Clinton, Tony Blair and Bertie Ahern.
wonder what all the homosexuals in the tory party think of the dup-pers, theyll not bend over backwards to make them welcome.
I see what you did there.
Ah that makes his heinous crimes absolutely fine then. Rewriting history...
Ah that makes his heinous crimes absolutely fine then. Rewriting history...
People with a hell of a lot of baggage have had to move on towards a more peaceful present and future. Why can't you?
Ah that makes his heinous crimes absolutely fine then.
Yeah, that's exactly what people are saying, hang on, I'll find a quote of somebody saying that, I'm sure it won't take long...
None of the heinous crime on either side were OK. That's why an end to the troubles was so desperately needed. Kelly was very much a part of that peace process and I repsect him for the role he played.
No-one is rewriting history, just learning from it and moving on to a peaceful future. Anything that threatens the curent delicate balance is bad news. May forming an alliance with the DUP goes against the spirit of and commitments in the Good Friday agreement.
...
SV by all means remember the past but it is past. You can not change it you can influence the future just like Mr Kelly. How you choose to do that is your business but I would recommend that you (plural) work to better the province. Be the change you want to be. (Or do you not do change?)