Townies...
Jolyon Maugham QC has announced on Twitter that he clubbed a fox to death on Boxing Day morning, while wearing his wife’s satin kimono and nursing a hangover
while wearing his wife’s satin kimono
Enquiring minds want to know...
I think the lesson here is don't post on Twitter.
Aye for someone who should have an ounce of common sense about them, killing an animal then posting it on social media comes across as a touch dumb. Still at least he's admitted the crime so should be an easy prosecution 🙂
As an owner of chickens, can’t say I’m that bothered about the event. However I find it incredible that someone so evidently intelligent has had such an enormous failure of common sense as to bleedin’ TWEET about it. Just 🙄 really.
Still at least he’s admitted the crime
I’m not convinced a crime has been committed to be honest.
I’m not convinced a crime has been committed to be honest.
Assuming he didn't manage to kill it humanely yes it has. Chances of managing to kill it humanely, with a bat, whilst it's awake and unrestrained are about 0.
I see he's also admitted to buying the bat to deter intruders.
Not a wise thing to say in public.
I’m not convinced a crime has been committed to be honest.
Pictures of the kimono are required before I pass judgement.
I see he’s also admitted to buying the bat to deter intruders.
Not a wise thing to say in public.
One is still struggling to display even the smallest modicum of original thought I see.
Assuming he didn’t manage to kill it humanely yes it has.
I see your point, but I think that the statutory defence would be around reasonable practicability. The argument would be that the fox couldn’t be safely released, or conventionally humanely dispatched, so in the circumstances the best was made with the equipment to hand. Unpleasant, but I’m not sure what he could have done differently in the circumstances. Why the **** he thought it sensible to tweet about it though is beyond me.
I see he’s also admitted to buying the bat to deter intruders.
A deterrent is only worthwhile if it is known about.
Also, I don't see the issue with that. If you have something you can use to reasonably defend yourself (weapon of opportunity) then how is the other party to know if you intend to do so or it is only to scare them. Either way, job done.
I swear to God that after the Brexit vote I woke up in a parallel universe.
And I want to go back.
squirrelking
Member
A deterrent is only worthwhile if it is known about.
Deterrant isn't all before the fact- having something that you can wave at intruders deters them from doing anything more once you're there.
And your point is, caller?
Flashy - what is the point of your post?
Is it condemnatory of what was, allegedly, done - or the political persuasion of the self-confessed perpetrator?
If the former, dim on Maugham's part to ****ter about it; will have the townies frothing.
If the latter, yawn.
I love game pie - properly made with hare as one of the ingredients; wouldn't happen without 'country sports'.
You give the impression you're a 'country man'; if true, you would understand what happens in truly rural areas.
Lamping to feed dogs with freshly killed rabbits, for example.
If feral fox in urban environment, does anyone really care?
Fox, pheasant, badger, rabbit, hare, squirrel run over on country roads by chelsea tractors - is anyone really bothered?
Road kill burgers - could support food banks.
Not bothered about what, allegedly, happened; 'QC in kimono shocker' is daily wail headline.
As for bat (baseball, cricket or any other variety) for self-defence; what's the problem?
I would prefer shot-gun but there are legal considerations.
Also, I don’t see the issue with that. If you have something you can use to reasonably defend yourself (weapon of opportunity) then how is the other party to know if you intend to do so or it is only to scare them. Either way, job done.
a weapon of opportunity isn’t bought in advance as a weapon before the opportunity to use it. I imagine.
Whether it’s a weapon of opportunity or not is irrelevant because it’s not in a public place, I think. It’s not illegal to have offensive weapons in a private place.
The word that's missing from this conversation is "premeditation". If he has a bat purposely to be used as a weapon adainst intruders, and killed someone with it that's a whole different charge to grabbing something heavy with a purely domestic function leading to the same outcome.
IANAL.
YANAL.
He is.
Maybe he should've worn a little red jacket and have it torn to shreds by dogs instead.
While tooting a little trumpet
Maybe he should’ve worn a little red jacket and have it torn to shreds by dogs instead.
Don't you townies go questioning the ways of the country folk. These things can't be changed after all.
When I read this I though it was some sarcastic ironic rant about Boxing day drag/fox hunts.
Seems not.
Flashy – what is the point of your post?
To start a thread?
posting it on social media comes across as a touch dumb
It's the way of the world now. Social media - post stuff you shouldn't/never would say out loud and usually that nobody in the ****ing world would have had any interest in. Get used to it.
To start a thread?
Without an opinion or discussion from the OP. We have been discussing getting stricter on such posts as we’ve closed them in the past as it’s essentially trolling.
Boxing day drag
The wife's kimono?
Still at least he’s admitted the crime so should be an easy prosecution
Sounds like the fox got caught in the electric fence around the chickens (it would have been electric as nothing else will keep a fox out).
So, given that the fox has been getting zapped by the fence every couple of seconds, for God knows how many hours,I'd say that this guy has put it out of its misery with whatever he had to hand.
Putting it on ****ter is incredibly stupid and just illustrates his level of hangover.
Flashy – what is the point of your post?
Big hitter keeping his post rate up .
Well, it's started a thread, but pretty poor to post like that without offering up an opinion. It's too lazy even to call it trolling.
I'm firmly in the "what else could he do" camp, easy with hindsight to come up with ideas but I'm not sure I'd know how to safely release a trapped, maybe injured, bitey wild animal.
The post on social media was dumb as **** though.
Sounds like the fox got caught in the electric fence around the chickens (it would have been electric as nothing else will keep a fox out).
i haven’t seen anywhere say it was electric fencing.
Nope, it doesn't say, but as I said, the only fencing that keeps foxes out is electric.
People with chickens know this and this guy could certainly afford it.
given that the fox has been getting zapped by the fence every couple of seconds, for God knows how many hours,I’d say that this guy has put it out of its misery with whatever he had to hand.
If he was less of an intellectual he might have done something practical, like turn the power off?
It's likely his upbringing kicked in and killing it was the default option.
In drag.
Obviously turn the power off!
The point I'm making is that this fox would have been continuously zapped by the fence if it was an electric one (it does says it's netting which is what the electric ones are).
I would imagine this would have had a serious physical effect on it.
We have kept chickens for over 20 years and have never even thought about having an electric fence. I don't know anyone that does in fact.
It's not the first time he's tweeted about wearing his wife's kimono and wielding a baseball bat in the garden (11 November). Something may be less (or more) than it seems.
We have kept chickens for over 20 years and have never even thought about having an electric fence. I don’t know anyone that does in fact.
We do, our neighbours do and my folks do. It’s good because it’s also easily relocatable.
That being said; it’s a red herring in this discussion as there’s no evidence it was involved.
ITV news managed to tweet a photo of a fox (handy if you don't know what one looks like pre headstoving) and Jolyon, with a not quite out of focus sign behind him, reading 'above the law' (handy if you need to hate Jolyon even more).
The Right Wing doesn't know whether to love or hate foxes now though....
Nope, it doesn’t say, but as I said, the only fencing that keeps foxes out is electric. People with chickens know this and this guy could certainly afford it.
So you made it up. My parents, grandparents and uncles kept chickens for years not once did they use electric fencing.
Out of interest, are the people on this thread bemoaning his actions* all vegans?
If not, why are you posting?
* The whacking action, not the twittering action
No I assumed from the fact that the fox was caught in "the netting" which is what electric 'fencing' is.
The only other netting I could imagine using would be chicken mesh but the holes are too small for a fox to get caught in.
Electric netting on the other hand has small holes at the bottom to stop small animals and larger holes further up (because only larger, fox- sized animals, can get that high). These larger holes are big enough for a fox to potentially get stuck.
Shall I post a picture to illustrate?
in 15 years the only times I've lost chickens to foxes is when our electric netting has been off.
Friends without electric netting on the other hand used to get foxes in all the time.
But then we're in the county where foxes don't have the luxury of discarded McDonald's, etc that urban foxes have.... So maybe they're less easily put off by non-electric netting.
Out of interest, are the people on this thread bemoaning his actions* all vegans?
Obviously not, or they would've mentioned it!! ARf! I made that joke up myself.
The only other netting I could imagine using would be chicken mesh but the holes are too small for a fox to get caught in.
Not once it’s tried to chew it’s way through. Not all netting is electrical fencing and not all electric fencing is netting.
Shall I post a picture to illustrate?
No, I helped install it relatives farms many times, climbed over it hundreds of times when walking, shooting and biking.
These larger holes are big enough for a fox to potentially get stuck.
Shall I post a picture to illustrate?
No. The grown up thing to do is say you aren't as right as you first thought
@sharkbait I live in Rural Shropshire between 2 farms and can't see our nearest neighbours and we keep Chickens with no electric fence. We've had them for 4 years (currently 11 of them) and despite free ranging them and often seeing foxes we haven't lost one to them yet. I have built a very secure coop and run, and only free range them when we are around to keep any eye on them and our dog is about to raise the alarm.
I have seen foxes in our paddock and found fox poo right next to the coop. I'm not complacent and am always on the look out for attempts at digging etc. but it is possible to safely keep poultry without electric fencing, even in the countryside. If I did go down the route of electric fencing I'd probably use the single strand of wire, not the mesh with one strand at fox nose height and another at the top of the 7 foot fence to deter climbing.
I'm in a small farmer's rough shoot on the neighbouring farm. They are sheep farmers who lose a few lambs and pheasant poults to foxes so do shoot a few. It's not particularly effective as there are so many about, shooting one merely creates a vacant territory which is rapidly filled. Having said that, whilst I tend to leave the local foxes to their own devices, if I caught one in my coop or trying to get in I would shoot it, but I'd be in no illusion that it would be any kind of long term solution.
The best way to protect chickens is to make their housing physically secure. It's not too difficult.
Out of interest, are the people on this thread bemoaning his actions* all vegans?
Not sure I follow, did he eat if after?
Having read a little about it, the fox being trapped does sound a tricky situation, obviously shooting it would be the easiest option but without a gun, I reckon I may have tried throwing a tarp over the fox and holding it whilst someone cut it free although I suspect that might not work and could well be much easier said than done, an axe would be the next option, clubbing it with a baseball bat would have been quite low down my list and I certainly wouldnt ****ter about it afterwards, because, well I'm not a complete ****ing ****!
No. The grown up thing to do is say you aren’t as right as you first thought
He’s neither right nor wrong, he postulated that’s it could be electric netting, because lots of people use electric poultry netting, which is true. I do and know lots of others that do too. Don’t be a point scoring smart arse, lol 😘
It’s a weird non argument because we don’t know whether the netting was electric, and if it was it’s largely irrelevant because as pointed out, it could be turned off, still leaving a possibly injured, aggressive, probably disease ridden urban fox tangled and trapped and in need of dealing with. I can’t see an issue with the decision to dispatch the creature with the quickest means to hand, the massive error of judgment was always going to be the decision to tweet about it.
It’s akin to Ronald McDonald tweeting “lolz! We slaughtered 1000 head of cattle as cheaply as possible today to keep you fed! #efficientkillinghmachine! #yummy!”
It’s true, and legal, but not going to do their public image any good because people find reality distasteful.
Spot on V8.
Out of interest, are the people on this thread bemoaning his actions* all vegans?
Not sure I follow, did he eat if after?
What has anyones value choice got to do with anything?
Just a point scoring sentence IMO.
Still dont follow why do you need to be vegan to think clubbing a fox to death and then posting about it on twitter is wrong?
Because it's rank hypocrisy, that's why.
Because it’s rank hypocrisy, that’s why.
Er, no. Its actually far removed from the normal method of dispatching an animal in either an abbatoir or wild setting. Except maybe taking a priest to a fish.
Because it’s rank hypocrisy, that’s why
Why?
Oh please nooooo!
Because being an animal raised and slaughtered in the UK is IMHO far less pleasant than being a wild fox that meets its end by being clubbed to death.
Obviously I wasn't there when he dispatched it so may be mistaken, but have been to numerous farms, markets and slaughterhouses
Etc
Because being an animal raised and slaughtered in the UK is IMHO far less pleasant than being a wild fox that meets its end by being clubbed to death.
In your opinion.
but have been to numerous farms, markets and slaughterhouses
So have I and if a chicken, lamb or cow I was about to eat I found out had been clubbed to death with a baseball bat I wouldnt buy it.
All of which doesnt explain why I should not be allowed to express an opinion on fox clubbing and subsequent ****tering about it.
Obviously I wasn’t there when he dispatched it so may be mistaken, but have been to numerous farms, markets and slaughterhouses
Of course you have, yeah.
If every vegan who says they've been to an abattoir has actually been to one there must be queues arround the block of vegans on their daytrips.
But getting back to the OP...
I wonder why he posted it. Here we have a "lefty" lawyer type - does quite a bit of human rights stuff, doesn't like Tories, would rather we all paid taxes due, especially the wealthy and bloated corporations. Doesn't like Brexit much. I wonder why an avowed Tory like Flashy would post this tweet, which of course, has caused all kinds of outrage. Without comment. (Other than the title of the thread, shamelessly nicked from Twitter, like many of his smears on various threads...cf. anti-semitism, labour leadership, etc. etc.).
The OP is a long-time fox-hunting supporter, so we can infer isn't in the slightest bit bothered about cruelty to foxes. He also (not openly of course, but in that snide way to which we're all accustomed) boasts occasionally about shooting animals - "But yaw, I eat them y'know..." And let's face it, with his weight issues, he's never going to catch a wild animal all by himself, so using a gun is all but essential. So why post this thread? Well, cripes, I have no idea, have you? I'm sure he'll post his actual opinion on it at some stage...like he does after the smears he copies and pastes on other threads. He does do that doesn't he? You mean he doesn't?
Tally ho pips!
The story was all over Twitter, hit the front pages on a slow news day, the OP probably underplayed it
I wonder why he posted it. Here we have a “lefty” lawyer type – does quite a bit of human rights stuff, doesn’t like Tories, would rather we all paid taxes due, especially the wealthy and bloated corporations.
If you are telling me he doesn't get and use tax minimisation advice from his accountant then frankly you are delusional
If you are telling me he doesn’t get and use tax minimisation advice from his accountant then frankly you are delusional
I always tend to think adverbs are the tools of the hard of thinking and as is your habit of appearing to be a bit short of intelligence, you don’t let us down. I doubt you ever will. Let’s be honest, by constantly posting #BackBurgon to no real reaction, you’ve shown that like any imbecile, you don’t bore that easily. Even without getting the attention that, like a toddler, you desire.
One day you’ll post something actually worth reading, and you’ll be positively tumescent by the attention you’ll get. I don’t think any of us need hold our breath.
If every vegan who says they’ve been to an abattoir
Have any vegans on this thread said that?
Feeling particularly acerbic last night were we, Mr Darcy? 😂😂😂
But then we’re in the county where foxes don’t have the luxury of discarded McDonald’s, etc that urban foxes have
I am also in the country, clearly a different part. Foxes are very rarely seen unless out at night and catch one in lights. I have literally seen 3 in 10 years. They are very scared of humans and don't go anywhere near houses in daylight. As long as the chickens are away before it is dark there is zero risk of foxes. In fact the mink were more of a problem a few years ago...
Have any vegans on this thread said that?
Indeed not.
Because being an animal raised and slaughtered in the UK is IMHO far less pleasant than being a wild fox that meets its end by being clubbed to death.
Why would you think that?
. I doubt you ever will. Let’s be honest, by constantly posting #BackBurgon to no real reaction, you’ve shown that like any imbecile, you don’t bore that easily.
When was the last time I did that?
Just want to clarify what the accepted definition of "constantly" is so I can optimise the post rate
Anyway back to the point, does the QC in question "optimise" his tax liabilities or not?
No charges, and (he claimed on R4 this morning) he was legally required to kill the fox. TBH that does sound plausible to me, no sense in letting it suffer.
he claimed on R4 this morning) he was legally required to kill the fox
I don;t think that's what he said. I think he said he was legally justified in killing the fox.
I heard that. Got the impression he was selectively quoting the law, after being a bit miffed at the opening Q.
Did anyone ask why he had a baseball bat in the first place? For the QCs softball league perhaps?
I don;t think that’s what he said. I think he said he was legally justified in killing the fox.
I thought he said required, but I can't be bothered to listen again to check.
Either way, no charges.
For the QCs softball league perhaps?
The Conviction Dodgers?
Either way, no charges.
Yet
https://order-order.com/2020/03/06/guido-exploring-crowdfunded-prosecution-jolyon-maugham/