I'm sure google/bing/search engine of paranoid nutter choice is delighted.
The way I figure it, if I was privileged enough to be on Mi5/GCHQ watchlists, the stuff I browse would help educate the folks monitoring me.
All good fuel for the revolution... When I'm king, I'll free up loads of cash from all the Tax Havens in the Commonwealth and Crown Dependencies and sort the NHS right out, whilst kicking the banks into shape bigtime.
Now here's an investigation waiting to happen.
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Crrrraaaaaaccckkkkkeeeeerrrr jjjjjjjjaaaacccckkkkk
I'm not gonna say where or who i heard it from but there is absolutely no reason why i should doubt the veracity of what was said, I'm not going to elaborate as i'd rather not die in a french tunnel car crash.
It wasn't Dave down the pub was it.
It wasn't Dave down the pub was it.
No, mock if you like, i believe what was repeated to me to be true - i couldn't give a flying toss about forum acceptance or suchlike.
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br just beat me to posting the Independent piece. Lots of questions need answering about how the police handle case like this.
The fact the police denied tipping off the media but now claim they were right to work with the press due to new information.
I though that if a witness in court was proven to have lied in any part of there testament, there whole testament is thrown out, also if they are proven to be a liar about a completely unrelated subject there testimony is worthless as you can not believe a word of what is said by a proven liar.
Yet the police have acted completely underhandedly and lied again.
Wether cliff is eventually found guilty or not, my trust and respect for the police is dwindling fast.
The way the police have handled this is a bit of a double edged sword.
Naming him before any charges have been leveled at him obviously predisposes the general public's opinion to believing he's guilty, and therefore could influence a jury if charges were ever bought.
But, it also means victims will feel they can go forward to the police if they were abused. But, again, this opens the way for false allegations, which again effects the public, and potentially the jury's perception of the potential defendant.
Not naming him, obviously protects his anonymity, but it may also stop victims coming forward, which means a guilty defendant could escape prosecution as there's not enough evidence against them.
There's no easy answer in my eyes.
The article you are referring to re cliff Richard is utter rubbish
Why would the police have to communicate with a suspect before obtaining a warrant or search the premises?
Hello mr Richard, it's the police, we are investigating an offence of. .............., do you mind if we come and search you flat for any evidence, we will come next Wednesday at 1000.
What do yiu think would happen if the police had to announce searches, all the evidence would be disposed of.
The article is factually incorrect
easygirl, i don't think that's the issue.
The issue is the police tipped off the press they were going to carry out a search of his property, the press were waiting for the police at the gates.
I think simon cowell has bought the television rights to cliffs trial.
Which will be held at wembley arena in front of a audience, hosted by ant and dec with cowell himself in the wig.
It will be shown live every Saturday night leading up untill Christmas and will culminate in a star studded live finale where the public will decide cliffs innocence or guilt with a phone in vote.
If cliff by a miracle is found not guilty he will get to perform his latest single live guaranteeing him the Christmas number 1 spot (reason enough for some to vote guilty).
There have been rumours for a week before this. Did the media only just turn up before the police or have there been some there for days ?
Having the press there is a difficult call
If there are other victims out there, the press coverage may help them come forward.
There will have been a decision made about informing the press based on that, or do people think the officer in case just decides to ring the papers to show off?
All these decisions affect the outcome of the case and will all be documented with the reasoning behind it.
I have witnessed planning and decision making processes for high profile cases, a correctly planned case is complex and impressive , although I will agree that a lot do cases are far from perfectly planned, it's all down to the lead officer
And if he is found guilty a boy band manufactured from cliffs victims called "the abused" will sing there single securing them the festive número uno.
Press just happened to be flying past, mmmm (itch my chin).
It would not suprise me if there was a helicopter in the sky that just happens to film his arrest.
And a large 4x4 nearby with the keys left in it and the door ajar bait car style.
In the hope cliff makes a run for it in an OJ Simpson like car chase. Tv gold.
Some really wretched attempts at "humour" relating to this case, here and on social media.
What case, no has one been arrested.
Let alone charged.
Pedantry winners award is in the post
Sorry for being pedantic about due process over trial by media.
Investigation is what's happening, into a sexual abuse on a boy by a man
Let's not forget that, it's a serious allegation
I did not realise there was a due process for trial by media - that is worse hyperbole than the [ non legal] use of the word case. We all know what the poster meant when he said case and , IMHO, one is certainly being made at the moment, unless you wish to argue they raided his house to not make a case.
Sorry for being pedantic about due process [b]over[/b] trial by media.
I did not realise there was a due process for trial by media - that is worse hyperbole than the [ non legal] use of the word case.
I think the use of the word "over" was intended to mean "rather than"
Not to mean "with regard to"
The bastardisation of the justice system for media sensationalism is a sorry affair. That could prejudice a jury in a future trial.
Innocent till proven guilty is right not supported by all countries and this is one step backwards towards the lynch mob.
I think the use of the word "over" was intended to mean "rather than"Not to mean "with regard to"
I see what you did there 😆
The bastardisation of the justice system for media sensationalism is a sorry affair. That could prejudice a jury in a future trial.Innocent till proven guilty is right not supported by all countries and this is one step backwards towards the lynch mob.
I do not disagree, I doubt cha****ng disagrees but I am not sure how "case" contributed to this.
Put yourself in cliffs situation, would you feel safe about leaving your house right now.
Would worry that people would stare, point fingers, spit or even roll
there copy of the paper your plastered all over into a millwall brick and hit you with it.
You would be under a self inflicted house arrest.
Yet you have not even been arrested never mind had charges bought against you.
It is truly shameful and the police best hope he is guilty.
Let's not forget that, it's a serious allegation
This should mean that there is more caution about exposing it to public scrutiny, not less.
Innocent till proven guilty is right not supported by all countries and this is one step backwards towards the lynch mob.
Generally this principle is sound, BUT;
It's a bit of a catch 22...
If you have sufficient reason to believe guilt, but not enough evidence for a guaranteed prosecution, then exposure by the media will bring more witnesses forward.
If you didn't, then a guilty party could get away with it.
If they've pursued this particular avenue of enquiry for the reasons I believe, things could get very interesting indeed...
thank god chip is here to ground the debate
there are two issues regarding anonymity here
1. Being anonymous is good if you turn out to be NOT guilty
2. being anonymous is good if you are GUILTY as it may stop other victims coming forward
Deciding which way to go is difficult, as mud sticks, and neither option is perfect.
I doubt cliff is shitting it going out tbh and I am not sure why you wish to rail against OOT social media reports if you are going to do them yourself [ all be it from the accused [ or investigated ] perspective.
Well if only half of the rumour and conjecture over an MI5 lead high level cover up is true, then using the media is at least going to make another one (cover up) difficult.
I doubt they'd do it unless they have been frustrated over the years with cover ups, super injunctions and the like.
That's disturbing news about the freedom of information act being curtailed in regard to the Royal Family, there's enough mud being slung, some of it will bound to stick now..
the media is at least going to make another one (cover up) difficult.
I doubt they'd do it unless they have been frustrated over the years with cover ups, super injunctions and the like.
It was a BBC helicopter, you know the BBC who employed Jim'll fix it.
There sick of the cover ups.
as somewhat of a pedant in this area, I'm not aware of a single formal definition of "case"...
the way the police are back up to their dishonest leaking shenanigans is outrageous. if the purpose really was to encourage victims or witnesses to come forward, the right way would have been simply to say "we are investigating x, anyone with information y should contact us on z".
I though that if a witness in court was proven to have lied in any part of there testament, there whole testament is thrown out, also if they are proven to be a liar about a completely unrelated subject there testimony is worthless as you can not believe a word of what is said by a proven liar.
it's entirely up to the jury (or judge if a jury isn't empaneled) to decide how much credence to give to a witness or whether to believe them.
chip - MemberIt was a BBC helicopter, you know the BBC who employed Jim'll fix it.
There sick of the cover ups.
So what are you inferring chips? There's not been a cover up? Those files that Leon Brittain 'misplaced' genuinely accidentally vanished? Nobody, not one of all those care home kids didn't try and get his/her case heard?
The Jill Dando thing, just a coincidence she was doing an expose piece for crime watch (allegedly).
No, there's just to much albeit circumstantial, virtual bollox about for my liking, I think that's why they leaked it.
Funnily enough, Leon Brittan is related to Sir Malcolm Ri****d, who is the current Chairman of the Intelligence and Security committee, appointed by David Cameron...
Cliff Richard and Jimmy Savile were both on an investigation into pornography, [url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00y8x4j ]where they apparently visited sex clubs in London and Copenhagen[/url] set up by [url= http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/430115.stm ]Lord Longford[/url], who also campaigned for the release of Myra Hindley...
The Jill Dando thing gets more interesting too, but I don't want to be accused of flooding the thread with facts...
Dont worry, no matter what you type or claim, you wont ever be accused of that.
Innuendo, supposition, linking tow events without any facts, ludicrous claims, YES too many facts Not likely ..perhaps if you post on Icke websites you might be a bit fact heavy but not here.
You really should make it clear that you are saying Lord longford set up an enquiry that as part of its research visited sex clubs.
that reads as if you are saying he set up the sex clubs.
His anti-pornography campaigning made him the subject of derision and he was labeled by the press as Lord Porn when he and former prison doctor Christine Temple-Saville set out on a wide-ranging tour of sex industry establishments in the early 1970s to compile a self-funded report. The press made much of his visits to strip clubs in Copenhagen.
Imagine getting first hand information on a subject before publishing a report ...utter madness and he deserves our ridicule.
Have you a credible link to sy cliff or saville went with them mr Facts - Hilarious the self delusion of conspiracists.
C'mon Junky, compared to most of the 'what's the most I can spend on a bike to make everyone love me?'/'How often should I frotter myself against my Santa Cruz?' threads on here jhj's mostly harmless, isn't he?
At least he's not invented a new wheelsize or asked for advice about manbags, funbags or bodybags.
So let me get this straight, I supply facts, and you lamely attempt to discredit them... this is a fun game!!
NINJA EDIT to acknowledge Rusty Spanner :D:
650b is definitely better, because despite weighing more, having more inherent flex and weakness for a given rim profile, you can run the bottom bracket below the axles for better stability + cornering and sell more bikes 
(I must admit, picking a man bag was a burden on my turbulent hormones 😳 )
So Mr Junky sir, do you have any facts I can try and discredit, or don't you want to share?
xxx
If you can provide proof that 650b is a perverted conspiracy organised by Cliff, Simon Cowell and Carol Smillie I GUARANTEE you'll never pay for beer in Burnley again
Dude, that is a challenge I would relish, though even I might struggle at this early stage; however, give me 30ish years and I'll see what comes out in the wash...
I agree Rusty but he is just as delusional as thinking a 650 b tyre will bring the[s] trial[/s] trail alive but no where near as evil 😉
There are facts in my reply 🙄 but you cannot beat delusions with facts
There are facts in my reply but you cannot beat delusions with facts
You appear to supply delusions with facts...
The facts remain; the spin is optional 😉
These recent revelations remind me of the Operation Ore/FBI dirt on Labour Party/Iraq War scenario and also members of the establishment/military boarding schools/Dunblane tragedy.
Each one on their own can be viewed as dubious at best but when all put together you have to wonder if something really sinister has been going on all along.
Sadly I don't think we will ever know.
I wonder what realistic chance the police saw that by raiding the flat they might find evidence involving a 29 year old crime committed?
Its the type of decision that got the police into trouble in the Hanningfield case (where they arrested Lord Hanningfield in a dawn raid, just so they could search his property - ruled illegal in court with a massive damages paid)
Blatant fishing trip!
If you are older, then you should have the maturity to not shag if in doubt.I grew up in the 60s and we knew to avoid children, we knew it was illegal, and had serious consequences.
There's no excuses, 15 years and 11 months means you should display some maturity and wait a month.
We knew it then, we know it now.
All depends. I was on holiday in South Devon years ago, and while playing stuff on the jukebox in the site community centre got chatting to a girl who was also on holiday. Anyway, after a while she comes over and just plonks herself on my lap and puts her arms around my neck! My lucky day!
We were pretty much inseparable for the rest of the holiday, and things got pretty steamy, but didn't go quite as far as full intercourse. As far as I was concerned, she was at least my age, if not slightly older, and I never felt any need to interrogate her, so imagine my shock when, in a letter she wrote later that year she happened to say it was her birthday coming up, and in reply to my next letter asking how old she was, she said 14!
I was 17. There was absolutely no indication at all that she was three years younger than me, in either looks or behaviour or maturity.
We kept in touch by letter for years after, and phone as well, in fact I last had contact with her eleven years ago, but she's dropped off of my radar, sadly.
ninfan - Member
I wonder what realistic chance the police saw that by raiding the flat they might find evidence involving a 29 year old crime committed?
Exactly my thoughts. The alleged 'crime' was carried out nearly thirty years ago in South Yorkshire, and they're looking for evidence a couple of hundred miles away, in a place the 'suspect' not only wasn't living in at the time, but wasn't even accommodation, but commercial premises.
There would be no computer files, probably no clothing or other likely forms of 'evidence' that could yield anything at all that could incriminate anyone after all this time.
Captain Ahab would be well proud of a fishing expedition on this scale.
