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It's a fair point that my experiences were different to maybe some others mefty, although I find it very hard to get my head round the concept that some didn't understand what racism was.
The thing is, when you're growing up, everything is based on experience. I went to a small school in the back end of Norfolk, which was 100% white, so I didn't experience, or see, racism. The first time I did was watching the race riots in America, on TV.
At least in SA you can use black, white, coloured as intended despite the history that goes with each. We should learn the lesson.
He used the n word which you cannot use here just like you cannot use kaffir there.
Just as you can use coloured in the US and not here
its like words mean different things in different countries and all countries have racial terms that are, generally, only used by the racist
He used the n word which you cannot use here
Cannot, or should not?
Shocking. Etc.
It's a fair point that my experiences were different to maybe some others mefty, although I find it very hard to get my head round the concept that some didn't understand what racism was. And it has be said that I was brought up in a particularly anti-racist environment, indeed it was drummed into me from a very early age that all humans were equal irrespective of their race, class, or religion.
Me too but I didn't know what the N word meant when I was using it in the rhyme, I was much older before I did then I stopped using it.
Shamefully homophobia and sexism was ignored.
Thankfully it wasn't in my case. I blame my parents.
It's a fair point that my experiences were different to maybe some others mefty, although I find it very hard to get my head round the concept that some didn't understand what racism was.
I lived in a southern suberb of manchester in the 70'/80's and there was one indian lad in the school. We used both the N word and Tigger interchangeably for years and never gave it a 2nd thought. At high school I can't remember anyone of african descent but there were more indian lads.
As a kid I didn't care about racism, was too bothered slagging of the bertie blues (inc my brother). In hindsight I was naive maybe but picking on someone because of how they looked was never going to be a winner for me (nhs specs from the age of 6 etc etc).
Kids are different, kids will pick on anything- weight, height, if all are standard then its shape of head, shape of nose etc etc.
Thankfully it wasn't in my case.
Lucky you, there was a time when pretty much everyone, except gays and lesbians, were homophobic, at least that's how it appeared - even the law of the land was. Very much so in fact. And it was perfectly legal to pay a woman less that a man for doing [i]exactly[/i] the same job. You can thank Old Labour for sorting out those injustices. And making racism illegal.
Cannot, or should not?
Should not of course 😳
My bad 😉
At least in SA you can use black, white, coloured as intended despite the history that goes with each. We should learn the lesson. Hora +1 again.
Coloured in South African English doesn't mean the same as what coloured means in UK English. Words mean different things in different contexts.
We should learn a lesson by not calling or describing people in ways they apparently prefer not to be called or described by us (whoever "we" happen to be). It's, like, don't be a dick.
part of clarksons problem is that hes not been shy about airing his political views and hes part of that whole chipping norton set bobbins
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plus his spat with piers morgan, hes made a lot of enemies and I wouldnt be surprised if other revelations pop up at some point (ala Andy Gray)
he may have to start toning down his persona and Im not sure thats compatible with his brand of entertainment
Just as you can use coloured in the US and not here
WHAT!?!? I remember as a kid we were encouraged to use coloured, not black. Now coloured has been rotated out? When? Who decides? Do they send a memo? Why aren't I on the mailing list?
Just as ridiculous as the yanks objecting to oriental, which I still struggle to believe...
On the contrary, we will have defeated racism when we can use adjectives like black, white and coloured without prejudice. Hiding behind invented adjectives solves nothing, it's just hiding.
On the theme, when did white Irish come in as a race category? Seen it twice recently. Is it new?
So if you cant use coloured, can we say black?
Ok we could say 'of Afro-Carribean descent' but then thats the same as saying 'hes a bloke of Western European descent'.
If I called someone an African, I bet my voice would be listened to closely and I'd be asked to clarify.
****ing minefield. We should clamp down on malice rather than simple words with no ill-intent.
Just as ridiculous as the yanks objecting to oriental, which I still struggle to believe...
So do Asians. How about using words the words that people like, to describe them?
Why aren't I on the mailing list?
You have been [s]black I mean colour [/s] listed [/s] removed from the list
On the theme, when did white Irish come in as a race category? Seen it twice recently. Is it new?
UK govt has used it for EU funded programmes for at least the last 4 years - It has always been on the forms - not sure when it started so not that new
You are correct that when we can all just innocently use words we will have defeated racism and the problem is we are trying to defeat an attitude [ racism /sexism] by picking on words and it is not 100 % accurate.
We should clamp down on malice rather than simple words with no ill-intent.
are you arguing the n word has no malice and is just a simple word?
**** minefield. We should clamp down on malice rather than simple words with no ill-intent.
It's only a minefield if you're socially inept.
I distinctly remember using the original rhyme when VERY young, maybe around 1956 or '57 and thinking nothing of it. I recall later on being aware that you shouldn't use the word, and I know my appalling parents didn't, but then they were more interested in being anti-semites...
On the theme, when did white Irish come in as a race category?
When it is used to distinguish white Irish from black Irish ?
Phil Lynott: "You think it's hard being black? Try black, Irish AND a bastard..." 😀
Well odd that it is contained among the other "white" categories?
Seems a bit strange to me. Why do we need to discriminate on the base of one nation? We dont ask if someone is White Welsh.
So if you cant use coloured, can we say black?Ok we could say 'of Afro-Carribean descent'
Do keep up - "Afro-Caribbean" is no longer the preferred term, since "Afro" is a hairstyle, not an identified ethnic origin. "African-Caribbean" is preferred these days (although may be out of date and replaced with something else by the time this post is sent).
I recall later on being aware that you shouldn't use the word, and I know my appalling parents didn't, but then they were more interested in being anti-semites...
I remember when I was primary school age not understanding why my mother didn't find my jokes about Jews dying in concentration camps funny, when as far as I was concerned they so clearly were.
I also remember all hell breaking lose when my father discovered that one of my siblings had drawn a swastika with their finger on a dirty pane of glass.
Surely this place should be called 'Sanctimonious Tossers World'?
Bloody hell, I'm reading this and agreeing with Hora and THM. Some of you lot need to see the bigger picture and work out why some people are offended.
As for Clarkson, he didn't actually say **** and he complaining that he mumbled a word that 'after expert sound analysis' definitely started with 'n' is ****ing mental.
Surely this place should be called 'Sanctimonious Tossers World'?
Erm... Eh?
We dont ask if someone is White Welsh.
I do when I'm on the sheep dating website.
As for Clarkson, he didn't actually say **** and he complaining that he mumbled a word that 'after expert sound analysis' definitely started with 'n' is **** mental.
Nah what's mental is that he didnt use...
Ip, dip, dog sh**, dirty barstand, fracking git, you are not it.
But then he knew excatly what he was doing
As for Clarkson, he didn't actually say **** and he complaining that he mumbled a word that 'after expert sound analysis' definitely started with 'n' is **** mental.
Except that he did. You don't need expert audio analysis to hear it either.
It's only a minefield if you're socially inept.
Yup, it's really not that difficult is it. And if you make a well-intentioned mistake most people won't judge you for it. Clarkson's wasn't a well-intentioned mistake though.
So mumbling sounds that sound like real words is as bad as actually using them then? If you lot can hear an offensive word in there then really, I applaud you, because I'd be willing to bet, out of context, without knowing who was speaking you wouldn't hear anything of the sort.
the context is hes a riske entertainer whos has a history of making almost racist gaffes
Don't have to hear something to know what's implied.
He would have only had to say Eenie Meenie....... and you would know what he meant, because of his previous that Kimbers has pionted out
He would have only had to say Eenie Meenie....... and you would know what he meant
Many of the outraged on here wouldn't as they hadn't heard of that N word version, that's probably why they can hear it as they've been told what to listen for. I couldn't hear it.
Welcome to the thread.
On the contrary, we will have defeated racism when we can use adjectives like black, white and coloured without prejudice. Hiding behind invented adjectives solves nothing, it's just hiding.
What is being missed here is using terms mentioned above still carry connotations of racism, and its a bit too early to be considering using those terms with no strings attached with so much recent history.
But I think those terms should just disappear regardless, because we could just call our fellow humans...fellow humans. Its not actually difficult to be in-offensive.
Don't have to hear something to know what's implied.He would have only had to say Eenie Meenie....... and you would know what he meant, because of his previous that Kimbers has pionted out
Yeah he could have just said "dip dip sky blue who's it not you".
Luckily the eenie meenie version wasn't broadcast so it hasn't caused any offence.
Been here a while, checkout 3/4 of the way done page 2
So because you can't hear it, that's OK ?
We dont ask if someone is White Welsh.
Because they would also be White British as would the english, the scots and some Irish.
Yes I know technically Ireland is UK not Britain but you know what i mean and I did not make the categories.
If you lot can hear an offensive word in there then really, I applaud you, because I'd be willing to bet, out of context, without knowing who was speaking you wouldn't hear anything of the sort.
Perhaps you want to ask Clarkson who was so concerned he sent a memo to make sure it was not broadcast seeing as it is just us who can hear it...the ****ing bed wetter.
If even Clarkson wont defend that fact it sounds like it [ though he was trying so hard to not say he that he said it] why on earth are some of you?
So because you can't hear it, that's OK ?
So it's offensive when you don't hear it?
If even Clarkson wont defend that fact it sounds like it [ though he was trying so hard to not say he that he said it] why on earth are some of you?
Because I didn't hear it. If I didn't hear the N word then I didn't hear it.
So if you cant use coloured, can we say black?
No said a manager of a kids resourse centre back i 1993m we usd to manufactre and supplyy BLACKBOARDS, the things kids chalk on, we got told that we had to call them CHALK BOARDS, as the words BLACKBOARD deemeanaded black people, a few weeks later we stated doing white faced ones for painting on, we called them painting easels, same chap said why not call them WHITEBOARDS, i just pointed out that deeemed white people, he just didnt get it.
Some people like to find offence in some words or just manipulate that word for attention seeking purposes.
Well he chose not to have it aired so clearly even he thought it had potential to offend.
You are not just arguing over what we think you are arguing against what he thinks
Even for STW this is a new level of preposterous
Some people like to find offence in some words or just manipulate that word for attention seeking purposes
You and white board for example?
Well he chose not to have it aired so clearly even he thought it had potential to offend.
It wasn't intended to be aired, caught something on TV this am that said they're call a 'rush' it's a sort dress rehearsal where there practice certain parts but not necessarily to the finished script.
You are not just arguing over what we think you are arguing against what he thinks
Even for STW this is a new level of preposterous
No I'm not. I didn't hear the word is what I've said. As usually with your standard your copy and pasting with your own interpretation never a new low for you.
No said a manager of a kids resourse centre back i 1993m we usd to manufactre and supplyy BLACKBOARDS, the things kids chalk on, we got told that we had to call them CHALK BOARDS, as the words BLACKBOARD deemeanaded black people,
Either you're spinning a yarn are you company fell for an urban myth. The term has continued to be used.
Never mind chalkboards, try getting off the phone with someone you've just been discussing the new internet filtering arrangements with and then sending an email to the whole organisation about the "blacklists" and "whitelists" of websites.
The same organisation that would like everyone to refrain from using the outdated term "Afro-Caribbean"...
Going to have to explain that one to me edlong, since when was blacklist deemed offensive?
seriously? tbh, I thought it was the pretty obvious association of black = bad; white = good that people object to on that one.
Hence the chalkboard one being a nonsense - there being no good or bad connotations to whether a board is black or white, just a literal description of its colour...
seriously? tbh, I thought it was the pretty obvious association of black = bad; white = good that people object to on that one
Really? I've never heard anyone complain about the term.
Because I didn't hear it. If I didn't hear the N word then I didn't hear it.
What word do you think he said then?