[Closed] Christian Hotel Ruling

You'd fight to the death over religion? I guess you're part of the few billion other idiots who believe in ghost stories (or use them a way to persecute others...).

Kettle's just boiled, and there's some Earl Grey ready.

Biscuit anyone?

FuzzyWuzzy - Member

You'd fight to the death over religion?

No, I'd fight to the death for freedom of choice. 🙄

the "powers that be" deem it necessary to remove pigs from childrens' farmyard sets in toy shops

Really?

Assam here please, and a choclate Hobnob if you have them.....

<settles into the comfy chair for the afternoon, just in reach of F5>

You'd fight to the death for those two fuddy duddies? 😯

[i]should be married in accordance with their religion.[/i]

I don't think they insisted that people had a Christian marriage before they stayed there, just a marriage.

The judgement said that them exercising their rights shouldn't be at the expense of someone elses.

Captain Jon, they've removed pigs from farmyard sets in Toys R Us as they might offend muslims, who naturally must believe that pigs don't exist.

Biscuit anyone?

Ooh, got any choccy digestives Flashy?

Not seen Shibby on here for a while. This should be fun! 😀

Shibboleth, you're missing the point.

You can insist on whatever you like [b]in your own home[/b], but this was a B&B i.e. a commercial enterprise.

Would you be happy for a commercial enterprise to turn someone away because they were Jewish, Muslim, black? I know I wouldn't.

I bought some Darejeeling last week. Not very impressed, so back on the Lady Grey now.

they might offend muslims

****in muslims. Vegetarians and vegans probably whinge about them too.

Choccy diggers and Assam coming right up.

Early Learning Centre, actually. And it wasn't "the powers that be" that deemed anything, the ELC did it off their own bat.

Still, facts and rants, eh.

****in muslims. Vegetarians and vegans probably whinge about them too.

I'm vegetarian and I don't whinge about Muslims.

any Jaffa cakes? really fancy one now.

Church and state separation, what you do in the privacy of your room is your problem, but expect me to conform to your ideas. As long as it is reasonable and within the law, that is how things are.

I'm vegetarian and I don't whinge about Muslims.

Well until you do, you're not staying in my B&B 😛

Shibboleth - Member
Captain Jon, they've removed pigs from farmyard sets in Toys R Us as they might offend muslims, who naturally must believe that pigs don't exist.

Source?

(and the first person to say 'Apple' gets a slap!)

Should have just refused to let them stay citing the right to refuse to serve anyone
Can hardly take anyone to court over an assumption, just as easy to say that room had a leaky bog or some such spurious excuse

Can't blame them, I wouldn't want anyone from Huntingdon staying in my house either

Source?

Is Google down?

Would you be happy for a commercial enterprise to turn someone away because they were Jewish, Muslim, black? I know I wouldn't.

No, and this country prides itself on its willingness to respect other people's religious beliefs. The owners didn't turn them away because they held different religious beliefs, but because they weren't joined in matrimony in a way recognised by their own religion.

The gay couple singled out the hotel BECAUSE of its stance on this, purely to make a political point. It's completely unfair.

Yes, sorry, ELC not Toys R Us. The 'Powers that Be' to whom I was referring were in fact the powers that be. Idiot. 🙄

The ELC put them back:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11765420

****in muslims

I suspect the OP couldn't fight to save his own life let alone someone stranger's religious freedom

[url= http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/UK-News/Pig-Early-Learning-Centre-Shop-Criticised-After-Removing-Toy-From-Farm-Set-To-Avoid-Offence/Article/201011315810300?f=rss ]Pig Story[/url]

🙄

Well until you do, you're not staying in my B&B

That's fine, I probably couldn't eat the &B bit anyway.

The 'Powers that Be' to whom I was referring were in fact the powers that be. Idiot.

No. The ELC *chose* to withdraw the pig based on 'customer feeback'. No one made them do anything. Certainly not the powers that be, and what does that even mean anyway?

And, we'll have less of the insults, if you don't mind.

iDave - Member

I suspect the OP couldn't fight to save his own life let alone someone stranger's religious freedom

You would have probably said that about my grandmother. She worked at Bletchley Park decoding Enigma machines and probably did far more to end the Second World War than any drafted man with a Lee Enfield and a bayonette. 🙄

Isn't there some distinction between B&Bs and hotels, that means the owner of the former is allowed to take this stance as its still private property or something?

Anyway, CFH, is there any tea left please...?

The gay couple singled out the hotel BECAUSE of its stance on this, purely to make a political point. It's completely unfair.

That's your assertion, which they deny.

I have no religion; would you consider it reasonable for me to refuse you a room because you told me you were Christian?

Shibboleth - I have just read your your post twice (and read the story earlier today) and I am still not sure on whose behalf you are indignant - the gay couple or the B & B owners ??

Perhaps the inclusion of some terminology like "religious fundamentalist nutters" or "leftie guradian reading fags" (but not both) might help get your point across better - I am not sure if I agree with you or not yet...

*realises new gap in the market*

*opens up "The coloured gay muslim and pig aknowledging B&B"*

*retires at 29years old*

Cougar - Member and what does that even mean anyway?

I decide whether the toilet paper should hang next to the wall, or away from the wall. That's because, in my bathroom, [b]I[/b] am the powers that be.

Hope this clarifies things. 🙄

WHAT?!! PIGS ARE REAL?!! REALLY?

would you consider it reasonable for me to refuse you a room because you told me you were Christian?

Correct me if I'm wrong (I've not read the full story), but they weren't refusing rooms to people who didn't share their religion, they were refusing double rooms to unmarried couples? So the analogy doesn't really work.

Is the issue really that a married gay couple wanted to book a room, and the owners refused to accept that their marriage was valid? Is that the actual story here?

ey up - he's bringing his granny into it now.

To recap - pigs are still sold in ELC toy sets, and we're not sure if the OP wants to die for Christians, B&B owners, or gay people... or all three groups, or just one.

shiboleth, if you knew what my grandparents did in the war you'd send me a cheque each month for being related to such awesomeness and set up a website apologising for ever doubting the quality of people with tatoos.

but what have grandparents got to do with the original idea of this thread? also what the deytookourjobs have muslim and ELC pig toys got to do with it too?

i eagerly await your response no doubt saying you didnt realise i was AWESOME and you'll know fight for my right to post this 😀

I decide whether the toilet paper should hang next to the wall, or away from the wall. That's because, in my bathroom, I am the powers that be.

Well, no.

a) "the powers that be" generally imply some sort of government or ruling body. If I said "the powers that be told me I can't have a dog" then I'd be unlikely to be refering to my girlfriend, unless I was trying to deliberately mislead.

b) you were talking about "the powers that be" removing pigs from toy sets, it wasn't in reference to the B&B's decision, so your bathroom has no relevance here.

You can stop rolling your eyes, too.

iDave - Member

I suspect the OP couldn't fight to save his own life let alone someone stranger's religious freedom

You would have probably said that about my grandmother. She worked at Bletchley Park decoding Enigma machines and probably did far more to end the Second World War than any drafted man with a Lee Enfield and a bayonette.

I think you just proved iDave right.

Does the B+B serve bacon at breakfast?

probably did far more to end the Second World War than any drafted man with a Lee Enfield and a bayonette.

but what have grandparents got to do with the original idea of this thread? also what the deytookourjobs have muslim and ELC pig toys got to do with it too?

My grandparents and great grandparents HAD to be prepared to fight to the death to protect freedom in this country, Europe and the rest of the world.

I've always held the opinion that if I was put in the same position, I too would be prepared to make the same sacrifice for freedom.

Now, on one hand, we afford other culture and religions - who generally come to us to enjoy those freedoms that they might be denied elsewhere in the world - so much respect that people would remove pigs from kiddy's farmyard sets, and yet a Christian couple are being persecuted, under our own laws, for wanting to insist that people who share a bed under their roof, should be married in a way recognised by their religion.

No matter how many holes you want to pick in my hastily cobbled arguments, there's no denying that this is a completely unfair situation.

So you book a B and B for the wekend, away for yourself and partner, you travel there, and on arrival you are told youre not welcome, because you intend to sleep in the same bed as your partner of many years.

You complain, the case is taken up by a public body to look at discrimination issues, the media get hold of the case and let it run on a quiet news day, you get unwanted media attention and also £1800 quid each, and possibly get to sit on the sofa on breakfast tv.

The B and B owners get a lot of prime time publicity, and also get to sit on the breakfast tv setee.

Everyones a winner. 😀

I don't necessarily agree with their views, but like my grandparents and great grandparents, I would be prepared to fight to the death to protect their right to make that choice.

This afternoon, I'm starting to wonder whether this country is still worth fighting for.

Hilarious. 😆

You were joking right? Or would you really fight to the death (fight who btw?) so that some uptight B+B owners can carry on exercising their prejudices?

Now, on one hand, we afford other culture and religions - who generally come to us to enjoy those freedoms that they might be denied elsewhere in the world - so much respect that people would remove pigs from kiddy's farmyard sets, and yet a Christian couple are being persecuted, under our own laws, for wanting to insist that people who share a bed under their roof, should be married in a way recognised by their religion.

Some idiots took pigs out of a toy set, some other idiots got in trouble for being discriminatory - what's the connection exactly? Maybe write a letter to the Daily Mail.

Cougar - Member

Well, no.

a) "the powers that be" generally imply some sort of government or ruling body. If I said "the powers that be told me I can't have a dog" then I'd be unlikely to be refering to my girlfriend, unless I was trying to deliberately mislead.

b) you were talking about "the powers that be" removing pigs from toy sets, it wasn't in reference to the B&B's decision, so your bathroom has no relevance here.

You can stop rolling your eyes, too.

The "powers that be", if we study the expression carefully, means the "POWERS" (as in "the powers") that "BE" (as in "to be"). So, to put it another way, actually, ****it, there is no other way. It's simple. Powers that be! Those that be in power! Decision makers, people with the power to be! You absolute moron! If your girlfriend has enough power over you to insist that you don't get a dog, then she IS the powers that be!!! Christ! (Am I allowed to say Christ? Or will that upset the powers that be...)

And I'll stop rolling my eyes the minute you stop being an absolute moron! 🙄

what about the gay couples right to share a bed in the privacy of a bedroom like other humans in this country?

i'd take a good wristburning to protect that right, but maybe only take a gentle flick to the forehead to protect the right of a christian to not let homosexuals share a bed in their house.

the only thing i'd actually fight for the right for is to party. you wouldnt find the beastyboys denying pigs exist!

[i]should be married in a way recognised by their religion.[/i]

When has a Muslim, Jewish or even a UK civil marriage been recognised as 'Christian'?

You also imply that the gay coupel were, somehow, outsiders alongside [i]other culture and religions[/i] (which, incidently, also implies Christianity is the only true British religion) - they aren't as far as I know?

i'd take a good wristburning to protect that right, but maybe only take a gentle flick to the forehead to protect the right of a christian to not let homosexuals share a bed in their house.

😆

Its a terrible world we live in, the council won't let me pour petrol on the cross I have erected in my front yard, health and safety reasons they say. Shocking.

What's all this nonsense about pigs and Early Learning Centre?

Does no-one bother to check these myths before they post them??

[url= http://www.elc.co.uk/Classic-Farm-Animal-Set/118698,default,pd.html ]Linky - I see a pig[/url]
[url= http://www.elc.co.uk/Cobblestone-Farm-Play-set-with-FREE-Farm-Animal-Set/120894,default,pd.html ]Yep - there's a pig in this one too.[/url]

And a pig with 3 piglets in this one!
[url= http://www.elc.co.uk/Playmobil-My-Take-Along-Farm/126649,default,pd.html ]Yet more pigs at ELC.[/url]

More
[url= http://www.elc.co.uk/Playmobil-123-Farm/126650,default,pd.html ]and more[/url]

and I'll not even mention the several dozen Peppa Pig items!!!

Its a terrible world we live in, the council won't let me poor petrol on the cross I have erected in my front yard, health and safety reasons they say. Shocking.

Political correctness gone mad i tells ya!!!

It's Health and Safety gone mad

Woohoo! 😀

[img] [/img]

What's all this nonsense about pigs and Early Learning Centre?

You would have probably said that about my grandmother. She worked at Bletchley Park decoding Enigma machines and probably did far more to end the Second World War than any drafted man with a Lee Enfield and a bayonette

I was a lowly lurker until this flashed up...

Interestingly, so did my wife's grandmother. A very brave lady too. Very rickety, but still with all her faculties. I'm pretty sure she'd acknowledge that, whilst in theory you might be able to compare the contributions made by each individual in WW2, it probably wouldn't be the done thing. In fact, knowing my granny-in-law fairly well, I imagine she'd describe it as the sort of thing an 'arsehole' might do...

The freedoms our grandparents fought for includes the right to live your life free of discrimination.

The B&B owner wanted to discriminate against this couple, quite rightly the courts agreed it was not lawful to do so. The law in this country is pretty clear - you are not allowed to discriminate in the provision of goods and services - all must have equal access

You want he law to allow discrimination against homosexuals do you?

If the couple where a heterosexual black couple do you think it fair that a racist proprietor could refuse them a bed for the night because they are black?

Those that be in power! Decision makers, people with the power to be!

Precisely my point. No-one in power forced the ELC to amend their product line, which is what your OP implies. That's what the phrase means.

Anyway, I don't care, I've asked you twice now to rein it in and it seems you're incapable of having a discussion without being abusive, so I'm bowing out of this conversation.

and yet a Christian couple are being persecuted, under our own laws, for wanting to insist that people who share a bed under their roof, should be married in a way recognised by their religion.

[url= http://www.ministryoftruth.me.uk/2010/12/01/not-ashamed-you-should-be/ ]More disciples for the Overprivileged Church of Unmerited Victimhood[/url]

How could they have passed the requirements for the owners if they demanded the people were married?

They can't get 'married' because the christian church won't let them (dunno if they want to go through with a religious do).

I'm also unclear on if they asked all heterosexual couples for their marriage certificates when they turn up for a bed, as it would only be fair. IIRC bosses and their secretaries used to book themselves in as a married couple, how would they stop that?

Damned if they do, damned if they don't.

Imagine the fuss there would be if an atheist refused christian people to stay at their hotel? I thought we'd at least grown up a bit in the last fifty years. Obviously not.

You open a B&B you can not dictate who stays there. Only on grounds of indecency or noise.

Otherwise open something else.

as was mentioned earlier in the thread..

Think it is pretty fair if they don't stock pigs in countries that don't have pigs to be honest. Don't see too many camels in the UK farm sets either.

Anyway - is OT.

If the couple where a heterosexual black couple do you think it fair that a racist proprietor could refuse them a bed for the night because they are black?

If they were unmarried, fine. Because they were black, obviously, not fine. You're as daft as cougar. 🙄

The B&Bs website makes it quite clear that they insist that all guests are married, the gay couple knew full well and decided to make a political point.

My mother was an occupational therapist that made house visits. Muslim house owners would insist that she removed her shoes in accordance with their religion. The NHS trust she worked for insisted that she wore her shoes for health and safety grounds.

In the end, the Trust backed down and said that she had to ignore common sense health and safety laws so as not to offend muslims.

It strikes me that 'the law' of which you hold in such esteem, is far more likely to be bent in favour of muslims' views and wishes, but not the other way - which is what has happened here.

If they were unmarried, fine.

But weren't this couple actually 'married' in a Civil Partnership thingy? IE, as far as the Law goes, effectively 'married'? And therefore entitled to every right that a heterosexual married couple have?

So, the Law that dictates everyone should be treated equally regardless of sexuality or whatever, trumps religious 'belief'. Isn't that what people who fought the Nazis gave their lives for? To defend the rights of all from individual beliefs and prejudices?

I grew up in a Muslim household, and I had a farm set. There were pigs on it.

Should I be outraged? I'm not sure. Who do I write to?

Help me please for I am frightened. 🙁

Actually on many levels they are very poor Christians and simple bigots , they live in a multi cultural country with a number of diverse religions and life styles(has been since the Celts walked across the channel.)

We have a dead simple law businesses whether run from home or not can not discriminate on grounds of race gender or sexual orientation.

Jesus said render unto caesar that which is caesars IE obey the law of the country you are in. ( which is one of the reasons why contrary to the myths the Christians were OK by roman standards.)

They have chosen to ignore the dead simple law of the land and the teaching of their own religious figure head and side with homophobia , then they have the nerve to whinge when the law gets applied to them.

I'd quite happily pay my taxes for someone to fight for this country as long as it never allows bigots to have their bigotry protected by law. I'm not sure my brother joined up to fight for a country where a man and his partner could get turfed out of a B+B because the owners look down on them for no rational reason either.

My mother was an occupational therapist that made house visits. Muslim house owners would insist that she removed her shoes in accordance with their religion. The NHS trust she worked for insisted that she wore her shoes for health and safety grounds.

But she's visiting people in their homes. This is a hotel we are talking about.

Elfinsafety - Member
Who do I write to?

The Powers That Be... Obviously. 🙄

AdamW - Member

But she's visiting people in their homes.

So? Does that mean the health and safety laws that have been put in place to protect her should go out the window???

The B&Bs website makes it quite clear that they insist that all guests are married, the gay couple knew full well and decided to make a political point.

Drivel, rubbish and utter rot.

Got any source for that?

Do you own a tinfoil hat?

Forgive my ignorance but how is keeping your shoes on 'common sense health and safety'?

Surely it's makes more sense to remove them if you're treating someone, incase you've stepped in something unsavoury on the pavement?

Elfin - write to the Elders of the Protocols of Zion, they have a very handy complaints form on their website for just this sort of thing, they might even have a Facebook page now too.

So? Does that mean the health and safety laws that have been put in place to protect her should go out the window???

Yes it does. You can also smoke in your own house if you so desire. If, however, the clients were running a business from that location then H&S would trump their request.

Home is not equal to business in this matter.

My mother was an occupational therapist that made house visits. Muslim house owners would insist that she removed her shoes in accordance with their religion. The NHS trust she worked for insisted that she wore her shoes for health and safety grounds.

I know Jews, Christians and even atheists who would insist on the same. I know Muslims (probbly a few more than you do Shibby) who aren't bothered about people wearing shoes inside their homes (I don't actually think Islam does insist on outdoor footwear being removed in the house btw. It might simply be a hygiene thing, to avoid contaminating the home with dirt from outside).

I'm just getting so confused by this I'm losing the ability to think for myself!

What do I do????

[i]health and safety laws that have been put in place to protect her should go out the window[/i]

that sounds a bit dangerous - surely they should go out through a door with a suitable self closing mechanism and a hinge protector to stop anyone trapping their fingers.

have we found something that STW agrees on?!?!

(apart from shibby of course... but then he wouldnt employ the best person for the job just because they've got tattoos so he doesnt count when it comes to making judgements on whats fair and right in this crazy world we live in 😆 )

In the end, the Trust backed down and said that she had to ignore common sense health and safety laws so as not to offend muslims.

It strikes me that 'the law' of which you hold in such esteem, is far more likely to be bent in favour of muslims' views and wishes, but not the other way - which is what has happened here.

So wait, you want the law to be bent for christians but not muslims?

The B&Bs website makes it quite clear that they insist that all guests are married, the gay couple knew full well and decided to make a political point.

You're stating this as if it were fact. The couple concerned are at pains to point out that this was not done as a political protest. You may not believe them, but in the absence of any facts to prove otherwise, could you at least label this as your assertion rather than as fact.

The B&Bs website makes it quite clear that they insist that all guests are married

Wrong - its room policy was [b]not[/b] displayed on the website and was displayed only on its booking form. If you booked only by phone (and when was the last time you used a booking form?)you'd not have known.

shibboleth clearly holds a lot of views in common with [url= http://www.godhatesfags.com/ ]westboro baptist church[/url]

Sorry I'm late - ran out of "Yorkshire Tea" bags and had to pop out to the shops. Anyway...

Religion, as ever, trying to prevent itself being dragged along, kicking and screaming like a sort of elderly Violet Elizabeth Bott, by the progress of secular ethics.

Can you believe they're STILL arguing over ordaining women as "Bishops"? Whatever THAT is...

Yay! Here's Woppit! 😀

[i]I shall thqweem and thqweem and thqweem! [/i]