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So, smokers help fund the NHs for non-smokers....
Yeah help fund it - but they don't pay in enough so smokers cost more to the country than they contribute.
Yeah help fund it - but they don't pay in enough so smokers cost more to the country than they contribute.
You're having a bubble, aren't you?
What does that even mean?
Yet again, it appears that government fail to support hardworking families that live by traditional family values
Not at all - they're simply stopping throwing money at families who have enough of it already. Those who need support still get it.
They'd prefer to have both parents working and the kids at friends / childminders etc and they wonder why the youth have even less respect for authority / law than previous generations
How hard is it to understand that this isn't a policy thing - it's simply the easiest way to save money by not giving benefits to those who don't actually need them. You do realise that even if your wife went out to work, as a higher rate tax payer you'd still not get CB? Or are you imagining some strange alternative reality where you can earn less to drop you below the threshold if your wife earns more? Do you even really think that it will make any difference at all to whether parents both choose to work when one is in a >£45k a year job? I do find the idea that children of families with a household income >£45k are in danger of becoming delinquents because they go to nursery rather than stay at home with mum very amusing though!
What does that even mean?
Now I'll explain for you. Smoking costs the country money - through increased healthcare and lost revenue from days off ill OK? Right then they pay money to the Government as they pay tax on cigarettes OK? So as the latter isn't enough to pay for the former non-smokers have to make up the rest. OK now?
is that the sound of the well off complaining that they got what they asked for?
i saw a great interview where some old bat told the interviewer that she would happily see every benefit cut to save the dear old economy - she was horrified to discover that her bus pass and winter fuel allowance were considered benefits.
185 posts 66 voices - very telling.
Now I'll explain for you. Smoking costs the country money - through increased healthcare and lost revenue from days off ill OK? Right then they pay money to the Government as they pay tax on cigarettes OK? So as the latter isn't enough to pay for the former non-smokers have to make up the rest. OK now?
Not really. The Excise and Tax revenue from tobacco is over £10 Billion per year. The estimated, not 'estimated' cost of treating people with smoking related illnesses costs about £5 Billion per year.
Then, consider the tobacco industry in the UK. How many people are employed by it? Consider the profits generated by tobacco retailers. Then consider how much more tax is generated by that, and the NI that is paid by all those employed by or benefiting from the industry.
Smoking doesn't [i]cost[/i] the country money, it [i]makes[/i] money [i]for[/i] the country.
Why else do you think tobacco is tolerated??
It's tolerated only in the sense that it can't be banned.
You don't agree with the contents of this I suppose?:
http://money.uk.msn.com/news/articles.aspx?cp-documentid=152625392
Not really. The Excise and Tax revenue from tobacco is over £10 Billion per year. The estimated, not 'estimated' cost of treating people with smoking related illnesses costs about £5 Billion per year.
That's underestimating the advantages of having lots of smokers - it's ignoring the costs of treating life-ending non-smoking diseases, after all if you die of lung cancer you can't then die of senile dementia. Too, smokers die earlier in their retirement, which means less pension payouts.
You don't agree with the contents of this I suppose?:http://money.uk.msn.com/news/articles.aspx?cp-documentid=152625392
No, for the reasons above. The figures may be accurate (I've no idea), but just calculating the cost of smoking related diseases and the amount of tax raised gives an incomplete picture.
I have no problem with the decision at all.
They have to cut tax spending somewhere - this is hardly the most vicious of cuts. In fact I was shocked when we found out we get child benefit - seems unfair.
You don't agree with the contents of this I suppose?
I do actually.
Mogrim - Well I suppose then there's also people dying in their prime who could be contributing tax for more decades to come? I'd like to see proper figures on this but do they exist?
In fact I was shocked when we found out we get child benefit - seems unfair.
Surf-Mat; do you actually claim it?
tiger - smoker dies younger so get less pensions - far less. Thats a big saving
Elfin - we got it for a little while (while the missus was on maternity leave) but don't think we get it any more.
I probably ought to check...
surt mat
thats child tax credits your mistaking
everybody with kids under 18 (I think) gets child benifit, its not means tested (at the moment)
tiger - smoker dies younger so get less pensions - far less. Thats a big saving
Ooh so more pension for non-smokers? OK, I'm convinced smoke away all ye smokers.
Surf-Mat - Member
Elfin - we got it for a little while (while the missus was on maternity leave) but don't think we get it any more.I probably ought to check...
iain1775 - Member
surt matthats child tax credits your mistaking
everybody with kids under 18 (I think) gets child benifit, its not means tested (at the moment)
You will be getting child benefit as Iain says. Tax credits are different and means tested. Once you start to claim child benefit you (at the moment) get it automatically into the nominated account.
It's about time it was axed for people like me. Getting it has been almost embarassing. And there is no choice.
However the way they are going to axe it is pretty silly - they are going to pay it to us, and then take it back via Tax. 👿
Queen Mum was a smoker.
She lived 'til 'undred and one.
She had the best education, food, accommodation and healthcare anyone could ever hope for.
She never worked or paid tax her entire life....
[img] 
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Gawd bless 'er!
Well nothing has gone into our account for the last three months so looks like we're not getting it anyway!
Well you should be getting child benefit so get claiming whilst you still can.
check your wife hasn't got another account she is filling up before she does a runner... 😉
check your wife hasn't got another account she is filling up before she does a runner
8)
if you're earning more than £40k you don't need it anyway! just buy a smaller house/car and you'll still have pretty much the same lifestyle anyway or maybe shop at asda or tesco instead sainsbury or waitrose!
if you earn that kind of money you probably take home double what i earn as a single income family and i manage to get by so stop being greedy and quit your whinging! try thinking of those who are a lot bloody worse off than yourselves. sorry but it needs saying.
My wife keeps her maternity payments in her account and won't tell me how much she has, meanwhile everything she buys goes on my credit card - humph.
To be honest I don't think there is that much moaning though - just fair questions about how it will all work.
tiger_roach - Member
My wife keeps her maternity payments in her account and won't tell me how much she has, meanwhile everything she buys goes on my credit card - humph.
You know what that's called?....
if you're earning more than £40k you don't need it anyway! just buy a smaller house/car and you'll still have pretty much the same lifestyle anyway or maybe shop at asda or tesco instead sainsbury or waitrose!
if you earn that kind of money you probably take home double what i earn as a single income family and i manage to get by so stop being greedy and quit your whinging!
I don't see many others, other than the OP complaining. I'm happy for then to cease paying me it. We are over the threshold and we'll still have a comfortable life without it. That said I've been happy to claim whilst the state has judged that universal benefits are part of its policy.
try thinking of those who are a lot bloody worse off than yourselves. sorry but it needs saying.
If you're so upset get a better job, study harder, get more ambition. Haven't you heard our glorious leader say that you should be trying to do better for yourself and your family? Bloody whining Proletariat 🙄
no ones moaned about cutting the benefit just that they have gone about it in a half arsed way
You know what that's called?....
And that's not all...I put money into an ISA for her which she promptly took out and lent to her Mum without telling me. I am doing something wrong aren't I?!
tiger 0 yes - calling joint money your money!
I am doing something wrong aren't I?!
You already know the answer to that 😯
tiger 0 yes - calling joint money your money!
Well my money's joint and and what she has isn't it seems. Anyway, if she ever passes her driving test she can buy her own car...oh flip I pay for her lessons too!
STD = sexually transmitted debt.
no ones moaned about cutting the benefit just that they have gone about it in a half arsed way
In other words those losing out are complaining that some other people aren't also losing out.
"My" credit card - that she uses, "my" money - that you put into an Isa for
Nice caring sharing relationship.
Its either joint money - or she has no access to it. her
why moan about them going about in a half arsed way tho? isn't that how they do everything? we should be used to it by now.
i am trying to do something about it but where are the better jobs? no -ones taking on! altho i'm not actually looking for a better job just trying to set something up so i can be my own boss but that takes time when you're skint!.
ps, sorry for the earlier rant i know it's not you guys who are moaning but it's all i've heard all bloody day from those who can easily afford to lose it and yes i did tell them to shut the f++k up.
"My" credit card - that she uses, "my" money - that you put into an Isa for
Stop being a ****t! I pay for everything and she keeps her cash. I didn't expect her to give some of it away to her Mum without asking.
can someone recap and summarise for me as I may be about to have a brain implosion cause it sounds dangerously like the tories are thinking of doing something worthwhile.
Elfinsafety - MemberNot really. The Excise and Tax revenue from tobacco is over £10 Billion per year. The estimated, not 'estimated' cost of treating people with smoking related illnesses costs about £5 Billion per year.
Tobacco duties is around £8.8bn according to the 2010 budget document.
The government have an interesting problem. Everyone is obsessed by this idea of fair. The trouble is one persons "fair" is another persons "stealing from my social group". It's why they throw the word around so much. Everybody wants a fair tax and benefits system it's just that we don't agree what fair is.
IMO they have made a difficult choice to remove child benefit from those who probably don't need it. But to maximise the financial benefit they have done it in a simple way. Some people will lose out but it will save a huge amount on admin costs. I expect to see more of this type of decision making, especially when they start to introduce universal credit.
jonb - Member
The government have an interesting problem. Everyone is obsessed by this idea of fair. The trouble is one persons "fair" is another persons "stealing from my social group". It's why they throw the word around so much. Everybody wants a fair tax and benefits system it's just that we don't agree what fair is.IMO they have made a difficult choice to remove child benefit from those who probably don't need it. But to maximise the financial benefit they have done it in a simple way. Some people will lose out but it will save a huge amount on admin costs. I expect to see more of this type of decision making, especially when they start to introduce universal credit.
So they've done it because it's easier for them, and sod those who lose thousands of pounds. Yep, sounds like the Tories to me.
Tobacco duties is around £8.8bn according to the 2010 budget document.
I was using the combined Excise Duty and VAT amounts as published here:
http://www.the-tma.org.uk/tma-publications-research/facts-figures/tax-revenue-from-tobacco/
Furry muff.