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In a very unexpected turn of events, my inlaws have decided they would like to buy a caravan, but as they have nowhere to keep it, wondered if we would like to keep it at our house for them and use it whenever we want. We have often thought we'd like one but haven't really had the spare cash sitting around. So, I have been invited to find/choose one that suits us, but don't really know where to start.
4 berth would be sufficient (our oldest is 16 so not likely to be a regular occupant) - two adults, two small boys.
Max towing weight on the car is 1300 kg.
When I asked about budget they said "8, 10, 12, whatever/we don't know, but we want a nice one"
New or used, but used would need to be still fairly new and in vgc to keep grandma happy. I always favour new for warranty/peace of mind but with no knowledge of the world of caravans don't know if buying new is sensible or stupid.
It'll be a cash purchase with no PX - is that a strong position when buying a caravan (I'm aware it's not really for cars these days)? How much of a discount off the advertised prices does one haggle for?
So, point me in the right direction for where to start looking!
New or used,
Well you won't get a new one for 12K but Bailey (& maybe other manufactures) do one for around the 16K mark. You'll get something decent used for 12K though.
The towing limit of the car will be a deciding factor obviously but I'd suggest finding a reputable dealer & asking their advice.
FWIW we used Ropers at Catterick who were super helpful & advised accordingly. We ended up with a 2012 Lunar Clubman SI, excellent condition, ready to load with personal stuff, inc motor mover/awning...everything for 15K.
Don't forget though, if you got a new van for 16K then that's just the bare caravan.
Cash is good though, always get something extra for cash.
Where are you based?
Go to a caravan dealer and look at layouts. There are a right or ten layouts that they all make. That is a starting point.
1300kg is not a lot, but most of the lightweight ranges come in about that.
However the max towing weight of the car in the handbook is not a good guide. You need to know the kerb weight. You should not tow more than the kerb weight (ideally 85%), you also can't exceed the gross train weight.
What car is it? There are towing calculator websites.
Highlands, so a bit of a drive somewhere to look at some, but would stomach that to find somewhere decent.
Car is a Toyota Verso, kerb weight 1520, so 1290kg is 85%.
Was only talking about this at the weekend. According to my mate the next month or so is prime second hand purchase time when some of the older caravanners decide this is their last season and sell the job lot. You can end up getting some real bargains with the beauty being things like awnings, water rollers, gas bottles etc will all be part of the deal.
Also getting one with a master mover on is a huge bonus, there's been a fair number of times I've seen people struggling to either park or hitch up caravans when it's slightly wet on non hard standing pitch.
From experience, all aluminum construction ( Bailey etc)as lighter for the size and no frame rot / dampness issues, inflatable awnings are much easier to put up, especially if weather is poor and make sure its got a motor mover.
Motor mover +1
Get yourself down to Perthshire caravans twixt Dundee & Perth
See this man [img] 
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Anything German Hymer Delaths etc, better made than UK vans
Get yourself down to Perthshire caravans twixt Dundee & Perth
Just because they're close, or because they're also good?
^ not sure if they are good, but they have a load of used vans in stock.
Good a place as anywhere to start, you'll get an idea of the various bunk / kitchen configurations, and you should start to get an idea of what will work for you, and which models are options.
^ not sure if they are good, but they have a load of used vans in stock
Not necessarily to buy, but to get an idea of the options. Their second hand prices are always going to be greater than gumtree etc., but you should have some comeback if you discover damp, which kills caravans, within the warranty period.
Perthshire Caravans and also Dicksons on Dunkeld Rd in Perth both OK. We bought ours from Dicksons, my folks bought their most recent motorhome from Perthshire. Both of us had issues but giving the retailers the benefit of the doubt as both resolved the issues OK. At very least it’d be helpful visiting each to get an idea of layouts you/they’d like.
Also Murray Caravans near Stirling. Very helpful/non pushy when we were browsing and appear trustworthy IME (we store our caravan there when not in use).
If you can hold off til Feb next year, a visit to the caravan/leisure show at SECC in Glasgow would be worthwhile to check out LOADS of caravan layouts in one place. Or, also good discounts on new caravans at the show if you/they’re in a position to buy by then.
Layout make or breaks your enjoyment with a caravan IMO. With young kids we’ve found it helpful to have beds at opposite end from your living area. Great if they go to bed before you, you’ve then got the rest of the caravan to netfix and chill. Current layout trend is for fixed double beds which IMO are a waste of space, but each to their own. We’ve got a Hobby Vita Veneto 495 with fixed singles at the front and seating area at back which forms a double. Front ‘bedroom’ has solid wooden door separating it (most caravans simply have a curtain) so ideal when our 2 and 4 yr olds go to bed.
IMO motor mover not essential in caravan that weight for you maybe, but if in-laws getting on a bit then a good idea. We’ve managed without and just got better at reversing it.
We’re big fans of the German-made vans. Hobby, LMC, Dethleffs, etc. Solid and not always heavy. Adria good too (not German).
Weight: best practice is not to exceed 85% of the car’s weight, regardless of what the towing limit says. We’re fortunate to have towed a 1400kg caravan with a 1900kg Landrover to date but soon about to swap to a 2100kg Transit Custom for the ultimate stereotypical pikey van/caravan combo.
Would recommend a full independent damp test on ANY used caravan. Ours was apparently dampfree when we bought it but quickly discovered a leak. Dicksons did resolve it but was a ball-ache. As I said I gave then benefit of the doubt that they didn’t know about it when we bought it, but next time would get an independent inspection done before commiting.
Cheers, all very helpful. As I say, it's not my money, so I'm even more cautious than usual about not buying a lemon. I suspect as the time gets closer my mother in law will show a greater interest in upholstery, size of bathroom, kitchen features and so on.
European vans have a longer A frame which might make it harder to get into some sites or drive on lanes. Also they tend to be differently specced and the door is often on the wrong side. Older vans the Euro ones are definitely better made - not sure for newer vans. There's a massive change in quality from about 5-7 years ago - Bailey introduced their Alu Tech construction and then everyone else had to up their game.
If you can find the time then a day wandering round the NEC next month will be good. You will get to see most of the makes in one place with no pushy salesmen and mmight be able to get a bargain on one.
[url] http://mcshow.co.uk/ [/url]
We went a three years ago and finished up with a new camper for less than we could have bought the same three year old one from a dealer.
is that a strong position when buying a caravan
Caravans dealers don't tend to haggle - they normally offer you a discount of around 10% of the ticket price if you're not pxing.
If the max towing weight of the car is 1300kg then you would be looking at a caravan weighing 1105kg to get the recommended 85% match - that's pretty light.
Edit: just read this bit [i]Car is a Toyota Verso, kerb weight 1520, so 1290kg is 85%. [/i], that's still not a lot of weight.
I was told that with modern cars and vans 100% of kerb weight was considered okay. However, caravans tend to come in unofficial 'classes' of weight - there are a load around 1300kg +/- 50kg, and a load around 1500kg +/- 50kg. I'd go for the former, you should still have plenty of choice. And they will be cheaper.
Bigger heavier car will be much better when towing.
However check your licence if post '97.
I'm allowed to tow a caravan with a Skoda Fabia, but I'm not allowed to tow the same caravan with a Freelander 2.
Seems like madness.
I was told that with modern cars and vans 100% of kerb weight was considered okay.
That's just the cars ability to tow the van, not the drivers ability to handle the vehicle with a van behind it. Inexperienced towers really should stick with the 85% rule. And go on a towing course.
I was also told that more weight would improve stability, assuming it's loaded correctly and within the capability of the car.
The other thing to consider is the maximum towbar loading. The recommendation for nose-weight is 5-7% of the total van's weight. A 1300kg van would require at least 65kg noseweight. Many cars seem to have a maximum of 75kg, so something else to keep an eye on. If you don't have enough nose weight on the van, then things will get very unstable. Too much and you will either break the car or be on the bumpers on the rear suspension which is probably rather difficult to drive and will be uncomfortable. I see a lot of grossly front-heavy vans on the motorway.
Can you not get the correct nose weight with how you load the van (awning, bedding etc.)? That is something else that is low on my car - 60kg IIRC from bike rack buying time - but I assumed that was a balance thing. Obviously I appreciate that altering it with cargo is limited by the overall max towing weight, and, evidentially, there will be a limited number of caravans under that figure anyway for us.
Caravans dealers don't tend to haggle - they normally offer you a discount of around 10% of the ticket price if you're not pxing.
Still worth asking. Ours was originally £15,250 & reduced in some spring sale or another to £14,500. We ended up paying £15K which included a new Powrtouch motor mover, new full size Isabella awning & starter kit comprising of gas bottle, Wastemaster tank, Aquaroll & a long leccy lead.
(We took the awning back & paid £200 extra for a Vango blowey up one)
So after several visits to dealers and a day at the NEC caravan show, it has boiled down to a few options. Closer measurement of the driveway, particularly a bend in it, means length is going to be critical for getting it on there. Local storage option seems are limited and we would rather keep it at home.
One decision is what brand to go for - which is probably between Swift and Bailey, possibly Lunar or Elddis too - any knowledge on which of those offer the best build quality and so on?
Second decision is cramped 4 berth vs more comfortable 2 berth? The shortest 4 berth is the Elddis 304 (or 403?) with a tiny bathroom, two bunks for the kids and sofas too short to use as single beds. There are several 2 berths with long sofas and usable end washrooms. I think that, with a good awning that the kids can sleep in, would be much more comfortable for day time use, and especially for the in laws who don't like the tiny bathrooms.
Any thoughts?
They *really* need to decide what they want to do.
End washrooms look great but if you're staying at proper campsites with facilities all the time you end up using the showers there and just brush your teeth in the caravan (toilet seems to be 50:50 what people do). So you can end up losing 25%+ floor space to something that gets used for 10 minutes a day.
Kids in awning - they will wake up earlier, be colder and it means you have to put the awning up so people can sleep - pain if you're doing an overnight stop or arrive late at a site. You then have to dry the awning if you leave early/it's raining.
If issue with van size is manouvering then look at the various motormovers that are available - they make complex parking easy.
Having owned a number of caravans it took us a while to get it right (we now have a motorhome) and it can be expensive to get it wrong so time spent now visiting dealers, reading magazines will pay off - it's mostly about how you will use the van and what your priorities are, however experience is a big help too.
One decision is what brand to go for - which is probably between Swift and Bailey, possibly Lunar or Elddis too - any knowledge on which of those offer the best build quality and so on?
We have a Swift (Sterling Continental 570) and we're very happy with it, nothing has dropped off yet and only need a couple of minor things sorted at the first service.
Not sure about kids sleeping in the awning - it you're away for 2 nights for example are you going to put a big awning up? They're not the quickest things to put up and take down. You can buy inner tents for awnings so it's certainly doable but it's not an option I'd want to be tied to.
We have an end washroom but we have a biggish van and there's only two of us. I would give up washroom space for living space in a small van.
Yeah, I guess the problem is it is going to be a compromise between what suits an older couple who want a comfortable living space and a usable bathroom so they can go anywhere, and a family of four/five who are not bothered about a usable bathroom but need to sleep somewhere. Although we also have dogs and bikes so an awning for the space is probably a given. In some ways, for us anything is a step up from camping, which I'm not a huge fan of, but that's because of nowhere to sit and cook comfortably if the weather is crap. The 2 berths seem to have a bigger living area (seating etc.) at the sizes we are looking at. My kids are up at sparrows fart regardless of the circumstances 🙁
a compromise between what suits an older couple who want a comfortable living space and a usable bathroom so they can go anywhere, and a family of four/five who are not bothered about a usable bathroom but need to sleep somewhere
You need two caravans 🙂
Bunks are only good until the kids grow. Our eldest at 13 is now too long for most caravan bunks - weight would be borderline too. We ended up with a six berth to get the long enough single beds for them. We keep ours on a seasonal pitch though - not sure I'd want to tour with it, even if I had a vehicle big enough to manage it properly.
They need a caravan, I need a motorhome!
That's true Geoff, and the older boy is already quite a sturdy lad. And I understand that when they're teenagers lots of people put them in a separate tent anyway.