[Closed] Car Winter Tyres (possibly stupid thought!)...

Maybe put 4 season tyres on such as Hankook Optimo 4s and plan to move on to those permanently. They are really good tyres.

I won't bother answering the front back winter question as it will end in chaos

There will be predictions of your premature death but it's all going to come down to how reliant you are on the grip and traction the Winters provide. Don't lean on them too much and you'll be fine. Push them according to their abilities and you might have problems.

"Is it a very stupid idea to put winter tyres on the front (driven wheels) and leave the normal tyres on the rear?"

its a better idea than fitting another set of summers anyway - if where you live requires winter tires to get moving.

its not ideal but it hasnt made me spin my van at all under braking - unlike some of the locals roundhere who believe winter tires are a magic bullet that means you can drive as if it was dry and warm.

Better in winter than summer tyres all round, not as good as running 4 winters. Very few disadvantages these days; Mrs H runs winters all year round on her Scottish Skoda.

one downside is hora wont feel the road through his steering wheel when his back end is slipping as he pops to the shops for a paper.:D 😀

I asked my insurance company a while back, and told me they were fine as long as I followed the manufacturers guidelines. The hand book said that if used, all must be changed, so all 4 got changed.
Off-hand you probably won't die though, but then you going to store them (the normal tyres) and put em back on, so I'd do the 4.

PS: Look at getting steel rims for the winter tyres, as they tend to be thinner width, supposedly cheaper & will cut through much better than the fat ones needed to fit on your wide alloys

It's not a totally daft idea to have winter tyres on the front and summers on the back (plenty of cheapskates our here in the Alps do it). It'll help a lot with traction (enabling the cheapskates to get to work in the ski resorts) but it can be VERY sketchy under braking and cornering and going downhill.

I once went to get the winter tyres put on my van and they only had 2 in stock. I told them to stick them on the front and let me know when they had more tyres in stock. Nearly died twice in the intervening 3 days.

Is it a very stupid idea to put winter tyres on the front (driven wheels) and leave the normal tyres on the rear?

In short yes, it is very stupid. People do it, but it is still stupid.

but less stupid than summers all round

FWIW i didnt put winter tires on at all last year ..... never died.

iirc i only used the 4wd for fun as well last year - RWD coped just fine even when the snow was deep.

but less stupid than summers all round

I disagree, as it can unbalance the car massively if you are actually driving on snow. Only 4 winter tyres is safe. At least with summers you tend not to get going in the first place if they are not up to the job. That's the main issue with fitting winters on the front only. They can get you into a lot of trouble when the rears can't keep up. Here's a comparison of all combinations for you.

well Michelin state you put the new tyres to the rear to prevent unexpected oversteer. there are videos of their tests on the net.

me personally would stick the m+s on the front and just go easy

FWIW i didnt put winter tires on at all last year ..... never died.

Unfortunately some others did though, but they are unlikely to contribute to this thread

FFS, the only safe option is to fit the same tyres on all 4 corners whether summer or winter. Preferably winter tyres for the winter. Any other combination is stupid.

well Michelin state you put the new tyres to the rear to prevent unexpected oversteer.

This is standard industry practice when fitting a new pair of tyres. Always better to have the newest tyres on the rear. Nobody in the industry will advise mixing summer and winter tyres.

well Michelin state you put the new tyres to the rear to prevent unexpected oversteer. there are videos of their tests on the net.

I've seen that, but I'd prefer oversteer to understeer. Well I'd prefer neither but you know what I mean.

Every fitter I've been too rotates the news to the front too, so I'm not sure it's a one size fits all answer.

FWIW i didnt put winter tires on at all last year ..... never died

Is that because you couldn't get off the drive?

😉

and you are sure it was 100% down to their tire choice ........

answer 1.
you'll spin off the road into a bus full of nuns and explode.

answer 2.
I ran a passat for 2 years with a set of 4 seasons just on the fronts and didnt kill myself or any nuns.

m360 - perhaps a bit misleading , i was driving a 4x4 with non snowflaked AT remoulds on - gearbox was the prefered slowing method.

Every fitter I've been too rotates the news to the front too,

They're doing it wrong then. Decent fitters do the exact opposite and advice from all motoring bodies I know recommend fitting new on rear e.g from AA website:-

New tyres to the front or rear?
Check the handbook first as some give vehicle specific advice.

Generally it's good practice to fit the best/newest tyres on the rear – in wet conditions, this favours understeer rather than oversteer.

So if you have the front tyres renewed it's best to have the rear ones moved to the front and the new tyres fitted to the rear.

Tyres with deep tread are less likely to puncture and it's more difficult to control a car with a damaged rear tyre.

and you are sure it was 100% down to their tire choice ........

In some cases I would think so. What do your insurance company say about mixing winter/summer tyres? I wouldn't fancy your chances in a claim. But fit what you like, your choice.

given that most cars round the country have already invalidated their insurance by fitting tires not featured in the manufacturers hand book.....more so mixing brands/ ages across axles

that's a whole different argument trat. But it still doesn't make it a good idea to stick winter tyres on the front end only, which was the question.

don't believe there is a single reputable motoring body, tyre or vehicle manufacturer who would endorse mixing winter/summer tyres. But naybe you can prove me wrong?

TBH given the moistness of the last two winters, coupled with the fact that we had 3 mornings when there was frost on the car the whole of the last winter, I'll stick with the current tyres on the car.

At least with summers you tend not to get going in the first place if they are not up to the job.

Not sure this is true. Difficult sometimes, yes. But most people tend to make it out onto the road.

Don't lean on them too much and you'll be fine

Sage advice I think. Drive at the same speed you would on a full set of summer tyres and you can only be better off, surely?

It's not all black and white either. My car is very light on the front end. It has always had major understeer whatever the tyres. Put winter tyres on the front...still understeers. They've not been tested in the snow yet, so maybe they'll get a bit of oversteer there, but I doubt it will be much, if any. For what it's worth, they made a big difference in cold wet conditions, and I felt I had much better control of the car. Lots more factors than just tyres. I used to have a car that was the exact opposite. Always oversteered regardless of tyres and conditions.

Sage advice I think. Drive at the same speed you would on a full set of summer tyres and you can only be better off, surely?

It doesn't work like that. You watched the Michelin video right? What happens in reality is that the front has a LOT more grip on snow and the rear comes round and you spin off. Obviously that wouldn't happen in all conditions, but it's what happens on snow.

As for getting out on the road, it depends where you live, how bad the conditions are and if the road has been gritted or not. I've been in many situations where summer tyres would be a non-starter, but winter tyres have been quite safe. They have a totally different level of grip in certain conditions.

Rant - It honestly amazes me how people (especially in the UK) insist on going against all the advice that's readily available from dozens of industry sources. I'm a vehicle dynamicist by the way, which is why I'm pushing this point. If the OP or anyone else listened to some of the poor "advice" spouted here it would be a tragedy - Rant over!

Put winter tyres on the front...still understeers

That's probably because in current conditions the rear summer tyres quite likely still have more grip than the winter fronts. When it gets really cold - say close to freezing - or actually snow it will be a totally different story. I look forward to your report on that one.

I think I'll stick with my current tyres then, and not go out in the snow!

That's probably because in current conditions the rear summer tyres quite likely still have more grip than the winter fronts. When it gets really cold - say close to freezing - or actually snow it will be a totally different story. I look forward to your report on that one.

I [i]am[/i] talking about in the winter. They've not been used in the summer.

I think I'll stick with my current tyres then, and not go out in the snow!

That or fit winter tyres all round. Honestly there is no other safe option. But it is worth noting that winter tyres are much better in general winter conditions and not just snow. They are well worth the effort if you want the safest winter driving option. Especially if your car has wide low profile tyres.

If you do replace the fronts only, make sure they put the new tyres on the back contrary to what someone suggested earlier.

I am talking about in the winter. They've not been used in the summer.

What car are you driving?

I believe that if you have an accident and somebody is killed, the Police might try for manslaughter in the same way as if your brakes were defective or your tyres bald.

What car are you driving?

Honda Civic. I once had one of the similar Honda generation Rovers too, that drove [i]exactly[/i] the same. Mental understeer.

I can see why you are doing it then, but in the snow the inherent understeer will still turn to terminal oversteer at some point. Summer tyres are next to useless in actual snow and that's when you are likely to get caught out when braking downhill for example.

That reminds to put the sleeping bags, feathery jacket and blankets in the boot. You never know.

That reminds to put the sleeping bags, feathery jacket and blankets in the boot. You never know.

By the time your finished your car will be too heavy to move regardless of the tyres it wears.

So question for moshi if I may as I am quite interested in the science behind safely set up cars.

I sufficiently understand/ get the under /over steer argument about choice of where to put the new tyres (leaving winter /summer mixes out of the equation) but can you explain how hard straight line braking (particularly in the wet) fits into that dynamic.

With a more worn set of fronts you presumably lose water clearing ability from the tyres that are doing most of the work (and there is presumably a net impact on the grip available from the weight shift under braking to the front) and the unweighted rears are not possibly getting the most from that deeper tread. Is there some impact of the deeper tread keeping the rears working longer? Or is the assumption from those in the know that the lateral grip (under /over) steer issue is more critical in normal driving than straight line braking performance and wet weather traction(fwd.obviously)?

PS: OP,sorry for hijack but it seemed kind of relevant/ related and I have been curious about this for a while.

I wish I had a £1 every time someone asked about putting just 2 winter tyres on!

put 4 on or none on

@Garage-dweller: Deeper tread helps clear the water with less downward pressure. You may well be going straight but you are not in a perfectly balanced situation.Your brakes won't apply exactly the same on each side, the road won't be perfect, you won't be going perfectly straight etc etc. New on the rear where it allows (ie when you have the same front and back). If you have a 4wd I would swap tyres around so they all wear out the same and fit 4 new identical as mismatches can damage expensive centre couplings.

I ve got one winter tyre on my car! Can't say I have noticed any difference since the demise of its buddy. Anything with a decent tread works better.

The 4x4 damage couplings.

Right. So you'd better have 32psi x4 with +/- deviance too.

OP - Are you thinking about putting x 2 winter tyres on just for the 3 days a year it actually snows, or leaving them on all year when 90% of the time summer tyres will offer more grip?

Fitting x 2 winter tyres and driving around on them all year is silly financially and safety wise.

Ok I know winters differ year on year and dependent on location, but last winter we only had 1 frost in Yorkshire and barely any days less than 7 degrees. People always think the winters are harsher than they actually are.

Edit: I'm just getting some snow socks.

4 snow socks i hope ? 😉

Or youll go to hell backwards in a ball of flames if you even think about slowing down.

Nope just on the rears to get up hills. The rest of the time I'm happy to be on normal tyres going very slowly.

The UK is not Norway etc and the 1 day a year it does snow its not about making progress at a reasonable speed, but just being able to make it home. A set of snow socks on the driven wheels would allow people to get up hills.

Having said that Asda are doing some snow socks that are only £30 a set which are getting good reviews!

Also funky dunk. What aboute before 8 am and after 4pm , how many days were less 7 at those times ? Ie when most folk drive.

Snowmageddon is coming this year i assure you, i sold my road going 4x4 and have omly the van and the 90 project.

Going up hills is fhe easy part apparently. What about coming down, youll be spinning out of control madly.

( im taking the piss btw, im in the front wheels only camp for the same reason you are)

Trail rat in Yorkshire last winter barely any days went below 7 degrees.

I get the whole 7 degree thing, but the fact is the UK is a warm place, I bet 80% of the year is above 7 degrees.

Downhills I'm in the camp of 1st gear feet off everything, if your vehicle starts sliding at that point then its probably too steep to be attempting anyhow.

In the deep south of yorkshire i will give you that. Up here im the arctic circle (scotland) its rarely above 7 in winter except in a 50ft radius of mcmoonters stoves.

I only have 1 spare set of winters - 2 identical cars, for day to day driving in traffic where my aim is just to get out of the sticks and onto the main gritted roads im quite happy with two.

If im going skiing or long trips on faster roads i will swap to 4 on one car.

Yorkshire last winter barely any days went below 7 degrees

hora - Member
The 4x4 damage couplings.

Right. So you'd better have 32psi x4 with +/- deviance too.

Yes Hora, tyre mismatch is a valid concern and can lead to expensive bills.

There is an awful lot of variance in different brand and models of tyre so at the risk of not being able to get the same again make sure you replace all 4. Lots of motorway driving is particularly bad as the coupling just sits there working away for hundreds of miles because of the RPM mismatch between front and rear axles.

Depends what vehicle you have that does andyl

Audis haldex system is nasty for it.

Most part time 4x4s and selectable diff lock 4x4s should be fine. Old landys/discos etc,

Limited slip systems like the freelanders and that ilk are prone to vcu luncheon

Double post

it does yup. I'm not counting the semi perm ones as they will be shut down most of the time or the old agricultural ones but things with modern fragile things like the haldex and FL VCU you mention. Another notable one is Volvo which they made worse by fitting different tyre widths front and back so it was very hard to get the tyres well matched so a lot of 850s ended up 2wd, as do a lot of freelanders as the owners simply get the garage to take out the coupling and leave it out.

Mismatched tyres are a sign on any car that the owner may have scrimped/neglected (especially cheap ones) but on a 4wd I would be especially cautious.

Nope - not Haldex so doesn't have that chocolate rear-diff

I sufficiently understand/ get the under /over steer argument about choice of where to put the new tyres (leaving winter /summer mixes out of the equation) but can you explain how hard straight line braking (particularly in the wet) fits into that dynamic.

The dynamic weight transfer under braking increases front grip and reduces rear grip. If the new tyres are on the front, you are more likely to imbalance the car enough to swap ends under heavy braking.

OP - Are you thinking about putting x 2 winter tyres on just for the 3 days a year it actually snows, or leaving them on all year when 90% of the time summer tyres will offer more grip?

Don't know where you or the OP live, but in Northants countryside winter tyres have better grip for most days from around late November through to March. It just needs to be under 10 deg in the dry (but not a big deal unless close to freezing) or pretty much any winter temp in the wet - which is a lot of days. Plus of course on the handful of days it does snow and they don't grit the local country roads you can still safely get around. The winter before last they were a godsend when there was snow around for several weeks. However, most people around here don't use winter tyres and get in a right mess when it does snow.

I'd buy four winter tyres and point the chimney myself. Even if you can't borrow the gear to make doing the job safe the cost of scaffolding tower, ropes and harness will be £500 rather than a thousand. I got a quote for one gutter and found I could buy the scaffold and all the materials for just over half the original quote.