I’m going to be moving away from run flats on my car when the tyres need changing. For my car CrossClimate 3’s are recommended for comfort and because it’s rwd and that will give it a chance of driving on the 1 day a year we get snow in Shropshire
I know there are loads of people that love all season tyres on here and say that they are equal / better than summer tyres
However all the data / tests I have seen so far still show all season performing much worse in dry and rainy conditions
Where are you all getting your data from that shows all seasons are better ?
Ta
I've had all season for the last couple of years. I can't say I've noticed a difference in the mostly cold and wet weather we've had.
However, I've had a few punctures (and no spare wheel) and getting a replacement tyre in an emergency proved difficult, to the extent I had to buy a summer tyre to get me back on the road and then replace with an all season asap.
Pretty expensive and frustrating, so I probably won't get them again.
What temperature are they running the tests at?Round about 8C you'll get performance from all seasons, especially if it's wet.
I get mine from NAF , Norwegian Auto Fed..
FWIW I run summers in the summer, winters in the winter. I have run all seasons before tho' and they were handy in the mountains in summer. But it depends on where you drive, and what summers are you using?
I'm not.
I'm living 300 miles north of you where lower temperature and rain is much more common, with more ice and snow than you get. We have had two days of fresh snow on the mountains and two frosts this week.
I trade off a loss of some summer temperature and dry road performance for a lot of wet and cold improvements. But that is what I gave 9 months of the year.
Your mileage may literally vary.
Tyrereviews.co.uk...
I think you need to reframe the benefits of all season tyres away from keeping moving in the snow.
They perform better when the temperatures drop - usually below 8 degrees. In those conditions the rubber on summer tyres will start to firm up a bit wheras the all seasons will remain more sticky.
So it's not a question of how many snows days you get, but a question of how many damp days with single digit temperatures (including below freezing) do you end up driving in. Buy based on that.
This time around I picked up summer tyres. I moderate my driving when grip is a bit lower and I don't need to drive in properly adverse conditions that would make sense on all seasons. If I were keeping the car longer I'd have two sets of wheels.
What temperature are they running the tests at?
Tyre reviews did a test fairly recently in an mx5 4deg and the summer tyre still out performed the all seasons in wet and dry tests setting better lap times and braking
From what I’ve read summer tyre performance drops off below 7 deg, but that doesn’t mean they become worse than all season.
2.5 car length difference in braking is huge
What temperature are they running the tests at?
Tyre reviews did a test fairly recently in an mx5 4deg and the summer tyre still out performed the all seasons in wet and dry tests setting better lap times and braking
From what I’ve read summer tyre performance drops off below 7 deg, but that doesn’t mean they become worse than all season.
2.5 car length difference in braking is huge
I don't think anyone was saying that all seasons outperform a summer tyre in summer conditions, or a winter tyre in winter, the point is they do a better job than either would as an average across the entire year.
Although I've had Michelin Pilotsports & Goodyear F1 6 (both fairly high performance summers) on my car before my current all seasons (Pirelli SF3) and I would say the difference in warm weather is pretty marginal. The performance in cold & wet weather is night and day better with the SF3 though.
how often are you driving on the limits though - mean while on summer tires my car wont move on a slight incline when theres any kind of snow but with all seasons its not a concern.
at the other end of the spectrum ive never found my self driving on the rivet to worry the top end performance in the dry setting the fastest lap time on the corsa de la commute.
Buy the right tyres for your use case.
On my fun/weekend/best/hobby car I wouldnt dream of running anything other than the best, Premium,UHP performance biased tyres. Becuase it does occasionally venture onto a track. But it never ever goes anywhere near snow and ice.
On the family car - All Seasons all day long. It never gets pushed on the road. But it regularly gets used on crappy broken roads, floods, standing water, cold temps, wet grass car parks, might occasionally need to get us somewhere in the Snow.
When I only had one car - or if you had a car that gets used across the whole range - thats when a spare set of wheels and dedicated Summer/Winters starts to make sense.
Although I've had Michelin Pilotsports & Goodyear F1 6 (both fairly high performance summers) on my car before my current all seasons (Pirelli SF3) and I would say the difference in warm weather is pretty marginal
I am looking at Goodyear Eagle Asymmetric 6 v Cross climate 3's as both are supposed to be fairly quiet tyres with good ride.
how often are you driving on the limits though - mean while on summer tires my car wont move on a slight incline when theres any kind of snow but with all seasons its not a concern.
Thats my point though. I am never driving on the limit, my car is a big barge for doing distance / motorway driving, and both tyres above are recommended for that. However the data does show that when you need it ie swerving and braking hard to avoid an accident, the all seasons are way behind in performance (roughly double the stopping distance), and no one has shown any evidence to the contrary at the moment. This is in both wet and dry conditions or hot/cold.
Yes for that 1 day a year it snows I potentially could still go out and drive my car on the cross climate, but that would just be a bit silly when the chances of having an accident are still really high from other people driving into you.
Id love to find the evidence that in cold wet conditions the all seasons out perform the summer tyres but I cant find it, and tyre review are always very clear that they dont out perform summer tyres... just thought I might have been missing some evidence some where.
I could see maybe the CC would be better for our 2nd car that is used for local journeys, it would make a bit more sense on that car, but that manages to drive ok on the 1 day a year of snow we get.
In my case with the CC2, one of the reasons I have them (as snotrag touched on) is that I'm regularly on crappy broken up roads, 3" of water running over them because the drains and culverts have not been maintained, or grass field car parks and camping sites, grass verges etc. The CC2 are much better on those than the original summer Contis that came in the car. Ive not had a single problem getting stuck in the 3 winters with them fitted.
I think you need to stop referring to snow, you are asking about all season tyres not winter tyres. Completely different things as are summer tyres at the other end of the spectrum. All season like anything that is designed to work broadly will be a compromise at both ends of the spectrum compared to specialist dedicated items.
In the U.K. all season tyres should work well as we have a lot of cool, cold, damp, wet days which an all season tyres should cope with better than a summer tyre. Yes, they will not perform at the extreme end of usage better than a summer tyre as seen in benchmark tests, but if you don't drive on the limit, on average you should see more consistent performance overall thus making them a sensible one tyre does it all compromise.
All IMHO
ADAC.DE
I used Conti al seasons for years on my old T5 whilst living in Munich. Couldn't be arsed storing and changing tyres every six months.
If you're not driving around in the limit the whole time then they're fine.
Would be tempted to run all seasons on the Ducato, although currently running A/T tyres. They've got the snowflake symbol and we end up on lots of gravel roads and wet tracks.
"When I only had one car - or if you had a car that gets used across the whole range - thats when a spare set of wheels and dedicated Summer/Winters starts to make sense. "
This is what I do..
Bridgestone all season tyres for the most part, with a nice wheelset with UHP summer tyres for track use (conti sport contact 7).
For me, the cold weather grip in the all seasons is more of a selling point, rather than snow..
DrP
the all seasons are way behind in performance (roughly double the stopping distance
That doesn't sound right, where's it from?
Id love to find the evidence that in cold wet conditions the all seasons out perform the summer tyres but I cant find it, and tyre review are always very clear that they dont out perform summer tyres... just thought I might have been missing some evidence some where.
here you go, enjoy (note that this is the best tyres he could find for each segment)
As you can see the CC + the summer are basically matched in dry braking and the CC has a significant advantage in the wet. You should watch the whole video (linked below) because aside from the data there are various small but relevant points he makes about when the read is greasy etc.
video:
https://singletrackworld.com/forum/postid/13715524/
Who did those graphs? The X-Axis is inverted between the graphs, tso the further right yo ugo, to colder it is on one, and the warmer it is on the other!
They do seem to impy that in the dry a summer tyre has the shortest brakgin distance, regardless of temperature (in the range indicated) which I find surprising.
I do tend to feel that lateral grip on poor surface is much more progressive on all seasons than on summer tyres, so they don't suddenly let go of all traction, but give up more gradually, but probably from a lower level of total grip...
Who did those graphs? The X-Axis is inverted between the graphs, tso the further right yo ugo, to colder it is on one, and the warmer it is on the other!
They do seem to impy that in the dry a summer tyre has the shortest brakgin distance, regardless of temperature (in the range indicated) which I find surprising.
I do tend to feel that lateral grip on poor surface is much more progressive on all seasons than on summer tyres, so they don't suddenly let go of all traction, but give up more gradually, but probably from a lower level of total grip...
They're just screengrabs from the video linked at the bottom of the post, I think it's just a mistake the author made.
Agree the dry braking distance is surprising. Suppose you have sipes and grooves on all seasons + winters, therefore less rubber touching the ground.
Handling/swerving would be a great thing to test in the same way, but hard to imagine how you could do that practically.