Aviva tells me I should register the modification to my car whenever I put roof bars on it to transport bikes, and again when I remove them afterwards. They consider the bike carriers themselves an accessory. Has anyone else asked their insurer this question and got a more helpful answer; do some insurers consider the bars an accessory rather than a modification? I don't particularly want to change insurers, but would be administratively a pain.
Never considered it, the car has slots and bolt holes for a rack, so bolting one in and using it seems to be just using the car as designed and manufactured . Do they want to know when I fold the seats down too?
Goodness, this appears to actually be a real thing:
https://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/psa-ish-declaring-roof-rack-etc-to-motor-insurer
Looks like I might need to notify my insurer but it will be a real pita if we have to it each time
When you say "Aviva tells me," is it in writing in the policy, or some random person on the other end of the phone who may be making things up?
I'd argue that a "modification" would be a permanent change to the car. I can kinda see how they might want to be notified that you're using them, but notifying them when you take them off is nuts.
I'd be tempted to set up an auto emailer to notify them of the change twice a day, when you fit them in the morning and remove them again in the evening, see how long it takes for their admin team to tell you stop notifying them.
I always notify them of roof rack / tow ball etc.
I also make a point of calling them after the policy started and checking the roof rack (and use of) is covered, and make a point of dropping into the recorded conversation that it is bikes and canoes, as well as other things...I have not yet been charged an admin fee or had insurance declined.
That's irritating!
What if you have car that has fitted roof bars as a factory option? you wouldn't need to declare that I wouldn't think? My old volvo had them and it never even crossed my mind (not that I ever used them)....
IIRC it also had 3 different wheel sizes as factory options, 16's, 17's and 18's IIRC, so if I had changed the wheels I wouldn't have thought to delcare that either as long as they were the same size as one of the factory options?
IMHO, it just creates a no payout loophole for themselves.
I'm sorry, you told us about this on Wednesday when you went away for the day but your claim is for Sunday, you didn't tell us about Sunday... No cover I'm afraid".
Do they want to know when I fold the seats down too?
Yes, it's a performance mod. Folding your rear seats down adds performance by removing a bit of weight
The rear seat thing, It is rare that I fold them down, but it has to be said that when folded they remove a bit of weight. Vertical seats exert more downward force because the energy is focused on a smaller surface area. When horizontal, the weight is spread and so is less per Centimetre squared.
Errrr...
That’s not strictly true. You fold your seats down to make them more aerodynamic.
Lowers the center of gravity of the car too - racing stance!
What happens if you tell them you might put them on? At some point in 2025?
So the 2-3 times per week I fit my kayak carrier to my car, drive 1 mile to the harbour, paddle for a couple of hours then drive a mile back home before putting it all away again?
Notified mine once and it was added as an admin note, no change of premium.
Adding a roof rack is the risk, not the removal (unless you drop it on the car 😉 )
Just check that one notification will do for the year
What if you have car that has fitted roof bars as a factory option? you wouldn’t need to declare that I wouldn’t think? My old volvo had them and it never even crossed my mind (not that I ever used them)….
IIRC it also had 3 different wheel sizes as factory options, 16’s, 17’s and 18’s IIRC, so if I had changed the wheels I wouldn’t have thought to delcare that either as long as they were the same size as one of the factory options?
Factory options absolutely should be declared. If you paid more for the 18" option would you be happy if the insurer only paid out for the cheaper 16" option? Options can have a massive effect on the desirability and value of a car.
Goodness, this appears to actually be a real thing:
PSA (ish). Declaring roof rack etc to Motor insurer.
I think the issue comes into play when the modification itself directly contributes to the claim.
If you fail to declare that you've fitted a roof rack (or declare that you've taken it off again) then reverse into a lamppost I doubt the presence of the roof rack is here or there
In the example in that link the accident in question could only happen becuase the roof rack was attached and in use and couldn't have happened if not. So the addition of a roof rack adds to the number of things that can go wrong.
The absence of one doesn't
To my mind if I was in the habit of putting a roof rack on and taking it off (I don't - I just leave it on) then I would declare that its on and leave it at that. I can't imagine an incident that would be caused, or worsened by a roof rack not being there.
Factory options absolutely should be declared.
You’ll only be ripping yourself off if you do this. The web forms I had the misfortune of clicking through earlier specifically say that factory options are not a modification and are not be declared as modifications.
Never have I thought to declare a roof rack, been using one all my driving life. Don't need one now as I've just got a van, but will need to double check, popping a bit of wood under my parcel shelf that folds out over the back seat so I could sleep in it once or twice a year as a mod ?
Factory options absolutely should be declared. If you paid more for the 18″ option would you be happy if the insurer only paid out for the cheaper 16″ option? Options can have a massive effect on the desirability and value of a car.
Fine if. Your cars new. The 6th owner isn't going to have the build sheet
Understand how impractical that becomes.
Complain every time that you have to alert them of the change. Then escalate the complaint to the FOS. They get a nice ≈£700 fine from them irrespective of the complaint outcome.
Sigh...
Newer car has roof rails, but the stupid closed profile ones, so I'd been looking at a new pair specifically for big days out with bikes on top.
If I end up at risk with the insurance co. then I'm perhaps inclined to not bother with the roof bars now.
Question, if some has a car with a (factory fitted) tow bar/tow ball, are they supposed to call the insurance company every time they attach/detach something to the arse end of the car?
You don't have to tell them every day you do or do not use it.
It's a blanket 'I regularly add a bike rack or roof bars and carry stuff' statement.
When buying the car and sorting the insurance out, tell them then that it'll have roof bars and bike carriers on the roof. Collect car, got roof bars and carriers and just leave them on...
Or is that too simplistic?
You don’t have to tell them every day you do or do not use it.
It’s a blanket ‘I regularly add a bike rack or roof bars and carry stuff’ statement.
No. According to Aviva removing it again is removing a modification and you have to tell them. There is no option for “I sometimes use a roof rack”: the car is either modified or it isn’t in their web forms.
Factory options absolutely should be declared
It depends on your insurer.
Factory standard build is "unmodified", factory options are a modification from standard, however some insurers are happy with anything fitted at the factory, e.g.
"We define a modification as any kind of alteration to a vehicle that wasn't in the manufacturer's standard specification, or wasn't fitted as an option when the vehicle was manufactured." (AA)
Some have a drop-down list for options, e.g. "alloy wheels (factory fitted)". Some will allow main dealer mods (not factory) as "standard", e.g. legal window tints, and some won't
Auto Express ran an article on this https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-news/107964/car-modification-impact-on-insurance-cover-revealed
Yes, it’s a performance mod. Folding your rear seats down adds performance by removing a bit of weight
<em style="box-sizing: border-box; --tw-border-spacing-x: 0; --tw-border-spacing-y: 0; --tw-translate-x: 0; --tw-translate-y: 0; --tw-rotate: 0; --tw-skew-x: 0; --tw-skew-y: 0; --tw-scale-x: 1; --tw-scale-y: 1; --tw-scroll-snap-strictness: proximity; --tw-ring-offset-width: 0px; --tw-ring-offset-color: #fff; --tw-ring-color: rgb(59 130 246/0.5); --tw-ring-offset-shadow: 0 0 #0000; --tw-ring-shadow: 0 0 #0000; --tw-shadow: 0 0 #0000; --tw-shadow-colored: 0 0 #0000;">The rear seat thing, It is rare that I fold them down, but it has to be said that when folded they remove a bit of weight. Vertical seats exert more downward force because the energy is focused on a smaller surface area. When horizontal, the weight is spread and so is less per Centimetre squared.
Errrr…
Its only 9am and I think I've had enough internet for the day. This and the thought of calling my insurer to tell them I've fitted cross bars to my factory fitted, standard roof rails...
No. According to Aviva removing it again is removing a modification and you have to tell them. There is no option for “I sometimes use a roof rack”: the car is either modified or it isn’t in their web forms.
Muppets.
Collect car, got roof bars and carriers and just leave them on…
Or is that too simplistic?
Yes, as some days I have bikes on, next day a canoe and next day I do a tip run with an old bedstead on, then remove the bars as they are not needed for the week and I have a longer trip for work...
I fitted wheels that were a factory option, and I told eSure. They told me that if it was a factory option they wouldn't consider it a mod.
The 6th owner isn’t going to have the build sheet
The VIN includes all the factory options that you can spec when it was bought, or at least on my Merc it does. That's how I found out that whilst it's got the 'sport' pack, the actual sport suspension had been deleted. However, the VIN lists the 'sport pack' but it doesn't say that that included bigger wheels.
I will go on the app and ask them if roof racks are considered a mod.
Collect car, got roof bars and carriers and just leave them on…Or is that too simplistic?
Roof bars make a noise.
I forgot to add – change insurers and tell them why you are leaving. Only feedback will change such silly things.
This. Its mental. My van - told my insurer I'd fitted coilovers - shrugged their shoulders and said they'd make a note of it. Told them I'd removed my coilovers and fitted air ride. Similar response. New stereo? Yep, same. New wheels (5 sets of new wheels since I've owned it). Same response. Remap? Yes, they wanted to know about that - £20 p/a extra. Applicable to this use case - roof rails and bars fitted to the pop top roof. Nope, not bothered.
Thats Brentacre and A-Plan/Howdens if anyone is bothered (who are also loads cheaper for my standard(ish - I fitted roof bars)) than the likes of Aviva etc.
The ombudsman really needs to clamp down on this bullshit and be clear what is reasonable use. After a decade there's few cars that are totally factory spec. Got roof bars? Not insured. Did you put cross climates on? Not insured. Upgraded your wiper blades? Not insured. Phone mount stuck to the dash? Well sir that's a modification. Absolutely reasonable to have to declare all performance mods, things like brakes, ecu (I used to play with Jap imports) but this day to day utility stuff boils my blood.
Aviva. Awful. I used to have my T4 campervan insured with them, until they sent me a letter to say they were cancelling my insurance unless I re-taxed it. It was on SORN for the winter, like probably 75% of campers, but no, they'd changed their policies and insisted that if they were to insure it, then it had to be taxed all year round. Bastards.
Just got off the phone to Admiral - no need to declare a roof rack with them apparently...
DrP
My car insurance is with Aviva so I've just checked online as I sometimes use a roof rack and cycle carrier (on a car that has roof rails as standard). Based on the response for my policy, you do not need to notify a roof rack as a modification:
Modifications you do not need to notify us of:
Additional security: alarms, immobilisers, trackers
Air filter
Alloy wheels, fitted by the manufacturer
Dashcams and in-car CCTV
Driving lights or fog lights
Entertainment - aftermarket audio, visual or DVD systems costing less than £1,000
Exhaust system updates or changes
LPG conversion, fitted by a professional
Modifications solely for a disability
Parking sensors
Roof rack, roof bars, cycle racks, top boxes
Satnav systems
Side steps or bull bars
Sunroof
Towbar
Tinted windows which conform to legal requirements
Additional seats that don’t exceed the vehicle total seats to 8+
So, straight from the Aviva website (albeit a chatbot) I'm assuming it's not necessary. Which of course seems to be half the problem - there's so much confusion and mis-information (even from companies themselves) along with different policies depending on the insurer, no-one knows where they stand regarding a basic, trivial and common requirement. Insurance, it's a complete shitshow...
The noise is easy to solve...just turn the stereo volume up.
I've always left my roof bars on...with bike carriers on, I was only losing 9 miles of my range, with just the roof bars, it was 4 miles...
Happy to have music playing so if it did get noisier I wouldn't have noticed.
It really wasn't an issue leaving the bars on the car. However, as is very apparent, I'm not the norm on this thread.
we're told to take them off to save fuel and the environment.
Aviva are directly undermining that, by making it an adminstrative ball ache to remove them. They should be told to wind their necks in
The noise is easy to solve…just turn the stereo volume up.
You cannot remove noise with more noise (unless it's active noise cancelling). It's not that I don't want to hear the roof bars specifically, it's just that I don't want a noisy environment. Your road trips must be great.
DB: THIS CAR'S GREAT THERE'S NO ENGINE OR ROAD NOISE AT ALL!
Passenger: WHAT?!
Radio: IT'S 4PM WELCOME TO SARAH COX ON BBC RADIO 2 WE'VE GOT SOME GREAT TUNES
DB: I SAID THIS CAR'S SO RELAXING YOU CAN'T HEAR ANY ROAD NOISE...!!
Passenger: WHAT?! AARGH LET ME OUT!
My policy wording says that roof racks are an accessory and not a modification so I don't think need notifying
'Accessories are items permanently fitted to your vehicle which aren’t directly related to how it works as a vehicle. For example, in-built satnavs, cameras, comms kit or roof-racks. You can only claim for accessories under this section.'
But then they're also not permanently fitted to the car so who knows. I can't add them on the online portal, it doesn't list roof racks as an option.
The claim that lead to this panic was a joke, I can't believe the ombudsman upheld that one, I've been in insurance 20+ years (10 years motor) and I'm amazed that an insurer would have let that go to the ombudsman (insurer pays). It's contrary to every claims decision I've ever been involved with.
The only reason they got away with it was because of the zero modifications rule for that particular insurer, if it had been any other insurer they'd need to have proved some connection to the claim, that way they could prove that they wouldn't have written the policy in the first place, otherwise they'd have to prove that you deliberately lied about your towbar to get cheaper insurance.
misteralzFree Member
Aviva. Awful. I used to have my T4 campervan insured with them, until they sent me a letter to say they were cancelling my insurance unless I re-taxed it. It was on SORN for the winter, like probably 75% of campers, but no, they’d changed their policies and insisted that if they were to insure it, then it had to be taxed all year round. Bastards.
That's really odd as you can usually get Fire and Theft cover only for anything SORN, but I could understand why they would want anything on a normal policy to be taxed
Cheap or ill-fitted roof bars are noisy.
they’d changed their policies and insisted that if they were to insure it, then it had to be taxed all year round.
That makes no sense given that you cannot tax an uninsured car. Well, unless things have changed since I last had to actually think about this stuff.
Cheap or ill-fitted roof bars are noisy.
Thule Wingbar and also Yakima Whispbar are quite audible to me, so I am happy to remove them when not needed.
Alloy wheels, fitted by the manufacturer
This is an interesting one. My winter wheels are VW approved for the Golf, original equipment , the same diameter and width with the correct offset etc. and made in the same factory as the original wheels but are not fitted in the UK to my specific model. The wording above could mean that they are fine as VW approved for the Golf or they could argue that they are not as they are different from the ones fitted at the factory
Direct Line were happy when I asked as they are VW wheels and fitted with the correct rated winter tyres, but perhaps other insurers might have a different opinion. I tell them every time I change them and have never been asked for additional premium or an admin fee.
