[Closed] Car drivers - what is your problem?

TJ im not debating about obeying traffic law, although I do stop at red lights. Im asking a specific question about motorcyclists disobeying speed limits in built up areas (national speed limit they can do what they like as far as im concerned)
BUT It seems to me that motorcyclists will blast off with quite a bit more speed than the actual limit. WHY?

rossi46 - Member

BUT It seems to me that motorcyclists will blast off with quite a bit more speed than the actual limit. WHY?

A bike weighs less, so getting up to speed is effortless. 0-30 from the lights and im easily three or four carlengths in front without much effort. It also means road positioning (for me) if i can get ahead of everyone then i can be on my way and not obstuct everyone else.

To be clear, the speed limit is 30mph, the bike is doing 40-50mph

I agree, most people do the speed limit- but there are some idiots out there. Cars and vans too dont forget!
I meant that i will accelaerate UP to 30MPH (or whatever the speed limit happens to be) and then stay there. I like my liscense where it is- in my wallet!

Car drivers - what is your problem?

This (not my words, stolen from the t'interwebs):

There is a mythology that has been carefully constructed around motoring. Look at the adverts: the open road, the perfect wife and contented children secure in the back.

Then there is the reality. The never-ending and spiralling expense. Sat in traffic jams while your hard earned bleeds out of the exhaust making you feel guilty about the environment while the kids are climbing the walls with boredom.

It's hardly surprising that many drivers are half psychotic (or behave as if they are). And when they see a cyclist whipping past them all they can see is someone getting something for free.

So on one hand we have millions of delusional solipsists in control of a ton of machinery and on the other the cyclists blessed with instant karma where any bad decision will cost. Not at the end of the month. Not in insurance premiums, fines or garage bills. But instantly.

So I’m not hugely surprised when motorists complain about being delayed for a few seconds by having to safely overtake a cyclist.

I don't believe its too extreme an example of what's going on in the mind of many motorists:
"I pay all this money, I was promised freedom, my motorcar coddles me like a baby so I can act like a spoiled child, where's my freedom. . . . "

I don't believe its too extreme an example of what's going on in the mind of many motorists:
"I pay all this money, I was promised freedom, my motorcar coddles me like a baby so I can act like a spoiled child, where's my freedom. . . . "

Well said....

Thats fair enough, I have no issues with zooming off from the lights and then settling down to the speed limit +/- 5mph. Its the excessive speed that im annoyed about.

I don't believe its too extreme an example of what's going on in the mind of many motorists:
"I pay all this money, I was promised freedom, my motorcar coddles me like a baby so I can act like a spoiled child, where's my freedom. . . . "

I drive perhaps twice a week, the rest of the time I walk or cycle. I enjoy driving, but CBA with all the idiots who seem to think they can do what they like when they like "because its not doing any harm" in their own selfish perception. The rules of the road are there to protect yourself AND other users, who said we could be selective about which rules should be applied to us?

I don't believe its too extreme an example of what's going on in the mind of many motorists:
"I pay all this money, I was promised freedom, my motorcar coddles me like a baby so I can act like a spoiled child, where's my freedom. . . . "

Anyone who believes that in this day and age is truely deluded.

I'm not so sure.

What's probably the most common complaint/retort from a motorist, about cyclists?: "they don't pay road tax". Which when translated means "I've payed all this money, they haven't, so surely that entitles me to something".

And the 'freedom' bit is definitely true - nobody likes sitting in queues of traffic, we want to be crusing along, unimpeded.

all the idiots who seem to think they can do what they like when they like "because its not doing any harm" in their own selfish perception ... who said we could be selective about which rules should be applied to us?

This is the 'spoiled child' part. So many people unable to obey/follow a few simple guidelines/rules. They need to grow up. My 4 year old knows you're supposed to stop at a red light. Then there's grown men (not mentally, obviously) who seem to think they're above all this.

TandemJeremy - Member
Owenfackrell - so no cars break that speed limit - only bikes? I watch the cars I see as I ride around the city and its a very small minority of car drivers that obey traffic law

Sometimes if I see a motorcyclist coming when I'm in a traffic jam on the motorway I'll open my door just before he gets to my car then get out and beat him to death with a 12inch black rubber dildo.

Anyone else think a lot of motorbikers seem a bit up themselves?

Seems like every third bike comes with a free superiority complex.

if they want to rip the tarmac up then get on a track.

cyclist dont tend to put other peoples lives at risk by cycling along the side of the roads.

Sometimes if I see a motorcyclist coming when I'm in a traffic jam on the motorway I'll open my door just before he gets to my car then get out and beat him to death with a 12inch black rubber dildo.

Hahahaahahaa. Classic thread.

I'm an ex motorbike racer, a current car driver and a current 29er owner...

I speed on my motorbike.. in built up areas... TBH.. i just don't care... on my Supermoto i'm invincible... you're nothing more than minor irritations in my quest for fun

slow claps @ weeksy

I always make the effort to get out of the way of bikers if I can because I know they accelerate faster and brake far less effectively, and neither of us wants him coming through the back window of my car...
I have no problem with filtering bikes or being undertaken by a competent rider, my car will never match their bikes performance or ability to get through either at motorway speeds or in traffic, and I have no issue allowing them to pass me... If they actually know what they are doing...

But it has to be said Bikers on the roads are as inconsistent as drivers...

There are the 2 primary types of Biker (IMO), those that realise and understand they are on a public road and hence will have to deal with a mixed bag of slow, doddery and Fast, angry "Lords of the road" type drivers and all shades in between, all of whom are in a 1-2 ton steel safety bubble. These riders make allowances for the fools in cars; ie - don't sit in blind spots, give a bit of braking space, wait for a clear bit of lane to under/overtake rather than going for the squeeze option, you don't have to be a slow rider, just read the road as you would expect a car driver to be able to do and take suitable actions to make safe progress.

Then there are the Plumbs who treat every journey as if it's a track day and think they are the next Rossi, but haven't quite worked out that they have to share the "Track" with less predictable metal boxes operated by a meat sack with an attention defecit issue and a phone clamped to his/her ear...

OP you complaint is basically that you can't ride like a Cock on the road for fear of being wiped out by some other Cock in a car... I'm tempted to suggest as a solution that you simply don't ride like a Cock, you'll still get there quicker than a car would and have to spend an extra 10 minutes pissing about with your leathers...

Just make allowances for the numpties on the roads, and save the knobish riding for track days... you'll live longer.

chakaping - Member
Anyone else think a lot of motorbikers seem a bit up themselves?

Anyone else think a lot of "people generally" seem a bit up themselves? FFS. 🙄

because I know they accelerate faster and brake far less effectively

Wrong. They can brake far [b]more[/b] effectively.

As for the trackday comments - you're bang on. If you want to pretend to be a racer go and do one. They're pretty cheap and great fun; I was at Oulton Park at the weekend and 7x 20 minute sessions with instructors thrown in (if you want them) was £115.

I speed on my motorbike.. in built up areas... TBH.. i just don't care... on my Supermoto i'm invincible... you're nothing more than minor irritations in my quest for fun

You, my friend, wont make old bones with that attitude.. 🙄

There are OLD racers
There are BOLD racers
But there are no OLD BOLD racers 🙂

The ton!

BUT It seems to me that motorcyclists will blast off with quite a bit more speed than the actual limit. WHY?

PS intentionally blocking filtering = stupid, expecting people to jump out of the way instantly = silly.

Not sure where most of you lot drive, but I find most people are fine. See the odd poor bit of driving but generally its fine.

I find most car drivers will make an effort to move out the way if they see you. Some just don't see you and a tiny minority actively block you but they are in the minority.

One of my mates gave me a great bit of advice for riding a bike. He said you don't need to take a chance overtaking riding a bike as another will come along soon. Its not like in a car where its harder to overtake.

Car drivers also probably are not looking for the right things to see if its safe to filter. A motorcyclist will be looking at gaps that cars can change into etc. A car driver will not be used to looking for this sort of thing and just things the biker is mad.

Out of interest - when riding a pedal bike on the road how many of you would pull over to the left to let quicker road users past and how many would keep your legitimate road position and leave the manoeuvring to the other party?

different scenario MF staionary traffic vs traffic moving at speed, no-ones expecting motorists to move left if they are doing 30 in a residential to let speeder through are they? But yes I do sometimes move out of the way to let traffic passed depending on situation and it's safe, especially buses or black cabs if I'm in a bus lane.

Filtering? Is that the term for undrertaking in motorcyclists world?

If it is im not going to make space so you can do something illegal and dangerous ..although I understand it keeps us in nice fresh bodyparts so feel free to keep trying.

Have been riding motorbikes since the late 1970s and never expected anyone to move over or drive in the gutter just so I can shorten my journey time by a few seconds. I've never understood motorcyclist's desire to blast through everything and anything just because they (we) can.

If someone blocks your way when filtering, just come to a halt and [i]wait[/i]. The traffic will move on and you can filter past safely.

There was some argy-bargy in front of me the other night when some twunt on a scooter couldn't squeeze past a van so he starts thumping on the side of the van. Just for the sake of a few seconds FFS 🙄

[img] [/img]Ian, Filtering is perfectly acceptable and legal within the law of the UK. You don't need to make us spaces... i have a pair of these though if you need some persuasion on your nice comfy car door

[img] [/img]

[img] [/img]

Good point m_f - depends what is behind me. If it is a bus or a truck, or something that might need a bigger length of road to pass and I don't really want behind me, I pull in at the next lay-by, pavement etc. If it is a car I hold my line, and a motorbike I wave and flash them.

different scenario MF staionary traffic vs traffic moving at speed, no-ones expecting motorists to move left if they are doing 30 in a residential to let speeder through are they?

Looking at it, I don't think I misunderstood it...
[i]in far too many cases will car/van drivers just not move aside when trying I'm trying to pass them[/i]

I try and work on the assumption that ALL other road users (in whatever mode of transport) are complete numpty f*** wits and will do something dangerous and or unpredictable at any given moment.

What's probably the most common complaint/retort from a motorist, about cyclists?: "they don't pay road tax".

Nor do motorists. No such thing as road tax.

Filtering? Is that the term for undrertaking in motorcyclists world?

No.

If it is im not going to make space so you can do something illegal and dangerous

Rule 88 of the Highway Code.

Sometimes if I see a motorcyclist coming when I'm in a traffic jam on the motorway I'll open my door just before he gets to my car then get out and beat him to death with a 12inch black rubber dildo.

That made me laugh out loud

On the upside, I think this thread has answered the OP quite nicely.

How many posts here read, "I do xyz, therefore I'm right and everyone who does abc is a lunatic, so why should I be courteous to people like them?"

Swap xyz and abc for any two demographics of road users, and you have your answer.

The Highway Code discourages undertaking on motorways with some exceptions (rule 268): "Do not overtake on the left or move to a lane on your left to overtake". Undertaking is permitted in congested conditions when frequent lane changing is not recommended.[4] On other roads, the Code advises drivers "should only overtake on the left if the vehicle in front is signalling to turn right" (rule 163).[5] Rule 163 uses advisory wording and "will not, in itself, cause a person to be prosecuted", but may be used in evidence to establishing liability in any court proceedings.[6] On all roads, undertaking is permitted if the vehicles in the lane to the right are queueing and slow moving. Undertaking in an aggressive or reckless manner could be considered Careless Driving or more seriously Dangerous Driving, both of which are legally enforceable offences.

The scenario I have in mind is the motorcyclist undertaking on dual lane roads often when the car in right most lane is at or above the speed limit. See it every day . Watched one recently when the biker started having a go at car driver who moved to the left just as he was getting undertaken !! Cos you would expect some plum to be creating a third lane when non exists. Clearly the bikers fault if he ended up squished.

On the upside, I think this thread has answered the OP quite nicely.

How many posts here read, "I do xyz, therefore I'm right and everyone who does abc is a lunatic, so why should I be courteous to people like them?"

Swap xyz and abc for any two demographics of road users, and you have your answer.

Spot on! +1.

The scenario I have in mind is the motorcyclist undertaking on dual lane roads often when the car in right most lane is at or above the speed limit.

That is, of course, illegal. It's called 'speeding,' the side of the road is irrelevant.

Cos you would expect some plum to be creating a third lane when non exists. Clearly the bikers fault if he ended up squished.

The car driver is changing lanes without looking, of course he's in the wrong. Mirror, signal, manoeuvre, remember?

Again, "third lane" is irrelevant, it'd be the same scenario if there was a car there.

The car driver is changing lanes without looking, of course he's in the wrong. Mirror, signal, manoeuvre, remember?

Again, "third lane" is irrelevant, it'd be the same scenario if there was a car there.

Not really because the car driver has just overtaken the only vehicle that SHOULD be there. In that scenario the biker is in the wrong and whilst i do it often... if the driver goes to pull in and i cause an issue it's ME that apologises to them as i know i was in a poor overtake...

Doesn't stop me doing them

Out of interest - when riding a pedal bike on the road how many of you would pull over to the left to let quicker road users past and how many would keep your legitimate road position and leave the manoeuvring to the other party?

On a bike decent road position keeps me safe and I generally wouldn't compromise on that. Wouldn't compromise my safety in a car either, so I don't slam it in a hedge every time a motorbike comes past! Just talking about adjusting road position a bit if it's possible. And as suggested, I'd be less likely to do so in an urban area because of the hazards about.

WRT legitimate road position, there's a range of distances you can be away from the kerb safely. I'm just taking about adjusting myself within that.

So weeksy, you like putting yourself in a deliberate point of conflict with cars, yet you wonder why motorists don't have much respect for you?

If you genuinely ride like you say you do, I truely fear for your long term survival. Hope you've got good life insurance!

!! Cos you would expect some plum to be creating a third lane when non exists.

As Cougar says, it's helpful to use mirrors when changing lanes, often [i]because[/i] someone is attempting a stupid move. Regardless of blame, a dead or seriously injured person is not a nice thing to be associated with.

So weeksy, you like putting yourself in a deliberate point of conflict with cars, yet you wonder why motorists don't have much respect for you?

If you genuinely ride like you say you do, I truely fear for your long term survival. Hope you've got good life insurance!

For a fraction of a second.. it happens. Not every day or every ride... but yeah. You have to take speed and relative speed differences into account. If performing that manouver, i KNOW the car will be going back to lane 1, i've positioned myself in the right place and i've dropped a gear and it's pinned for the overtake. Therefore i've gone past the car before it's even realised i'm a factor.

I know why car drivers don't respect me.. it's partly jealousy from some weird thing that i may get there quicker than them... and partly because they percieve me riding dangrously.

However, you'd be suprised as what a car driver percieves as dangerous on a bike and what a bike rider percieves as dangerous. e.g. 110mph overtakes towards on-coming cars must look TERRIFYING to a car driver... However the biker is perfectly aware (hopefully) of the fact the overtake is done and dusted before either of them need to worry.

I don't often ride like the above nowdays... However, sometimes when the mood takes me, i do open the beast up a little.

Don't worry about my long term survival fella... i'm fairly safe 🙂

[b]

althepal - Member
Are we not supposed to treat a bike like any other vehicle? Ie- should they not have to wait in a queue like everyone else??

You're supposed to treat them like any other vehicle- in other words, not block their progress for no reason. Filtering is completely legal.

Question- do you cycle on the road? Would you sit in a queue you could safely pass?

althepal - Member
I've also had a wing mirror clipped by someone's bar plug when sitting waiting for traffic lights, did they stop to check? What do you think?

Then again, I've had my car wing mirror hit by other cars which didn't stop either.

bigyinn - Member

BUT It seems to me that motorcyclists will blast off with quite a bit more speed than the actual limit. WHY?

Because some of them are arses. But a few observations... First of all, people are bad at judging speeds, and particularily bad at judging motorbike and pushbike speeds. Comparative testing proved this pretty conclusively when radar guns came along. Magnified a bit by the fact that bikes accelerate faster, which gives the impression of greater speed. And the fact that bikes have a greater opportunity to speed skews it too- there'll be lots of drivers who would do the same if their hardware would let them.

There's also a bit of self-justification that riders do: "I'm safer at speed because I'm better/more attentive than the average driver". "My bike can stop faster than the average car" "Bikes are more maneuverable than cars so we can avoid dangers that cars can't". First 2 will look familiar since many drivers think the same (most unsafe road users of all flavours believe they're safe, I'm sure). And there's small grains of truth in them, but not enough. I'd bet most riders don't think they're riding dangerously, but a lot are deluded about what's safe.

They are still going to get killed by cars pulling out as they wont expect them to be doing 70-80 plus down there

But hang on... If it's not safe to pull out in front of a bike closing at 80mph then it wasn't safe to do so if they were closing at 40mph. Closing time is only halved. Obviously the bike's speed is contributory but you're describing cars pulling out when they shouldn't.

[img] [/img]

Anyone who thinks motorcyclists speeding are only putting their lives at risk think again..

[img] [/img]

[img] [/img]

Edit: I used to have an NC30 😀

Edit: I used to have an NC30

In that case you should know Pic 2 is photoshopped.

They both are.

partly because they percieve me riding dangrously.

Yeah, but come on. Speaking as someone with both car and motorcycle licences, *I* perceive you riding dangerously, and I haven't seen you either.

Yeah, but come on. Speaking as someone with both car and motorcycle licences, *I* perceive you riding dangerously, and I haven't seen you either.

So do i on occasions... but like i say, it's far rarer than it once was.

Back in the days of racing and trackdaying on 1000cc sports bike and riding them the same on the road.... then i was a danger.. and very lucky at times

In that case you should know Pic 2 is photoshopped.

Err, I don't think so somehow

http://www.fullthrottlemcsac.com/gpage2.html

And pic one is an NC30, not pic two 🙄

They both are.

[url= http://www.fullthrottlemcsac.com/gpage2.html ]They went to quite a lot of effort it seems.[/url] 🙄

EDIT: great minds and all that...

it's partly jealousy from some weird thing that i may get there quicker than them

Thinking that something like that is photoshopped just shows how deluded you are.

I would also like to add, as an ex motorcyclist, if you kicked my car with your Alpinestars, I would run you the fech over 😉

I would also like to add if you kicked my car with your Alpinestars, I would run you the fech over

Ooh, you drive an Ariel Atom? (-:

you'd be suprised as what a car driver percieves as dangerous on a bike and what a bike rider percieves as dangerous.

I drive a van and would have thought that most motorcyclists would know that when behind me if they can't see my mirrors then I can't see them.

Apparently this isn't common knowledge or they don't see it as dangerous.

As I'm a non-motorcyclists can you tell me which it is?

Ooh, you drive an Ariel Atom? (-:

There would be no chasing, I would sandwich you against the adjacent car without a moments thought 😈

I drive a van and would have thought that most motorcyclists would know that when behind me if they can't see my mirrors then I can't see them.

Apparently this isn't common knowledge or they don't see it as dangerous.

As I'm a non-motorcyclists can you tell me which it is?

It's not seen as dangerous, you're a minor inconvenience...

There would be no chasing, I would sandwich you against the adjacent car without a moments thought

and of course, we'd see you in court for reckless endangerment

I didnt mind motorbikes until I drove (my car) on the A65 between the M6 and Skipton. Some right nutters on there that would lead me to pose the question - "Motorbike drivers - what is your problem?"

and of course, we'd see you in court for reckless endangerment

Who are you, T1000?

I would be gone, and you would be on the floor wondering what the fech happened, wishing you never bothered.

I didnt mind motorbikes until I drove (my car) on the A65 between the M6 and Skipton. Some right nutters on there that would lead me to pose the question - "Motorbike drivers - what is your problem?"

Think of the motorcyclists as you being a Downhiller. It's a speed, adrenaline, power, control, performance thing all rolled into one.

riding a fast bike fast is like having your own personal rollercoaster

It's not seen as dangerous

That's fine then I won't have to worry about braking too sharply any more.

Who are you, T1000?

I would be gone, and you would be on the floor wondering what the fech happened, wishing you never bothered.

Without getting too ridiculous, you've then opened yourself up to fleeing the scene of an accident, possibly even attempted manslaughter and in the world of technology, video survillance and even head based cameras the same as cyclists use on trails... do you REALLY think your idea is terribly wise ?

Especially if you DO manage to kill me and i/someone has go-pro'd your actions...

That's fine then I won't have to worry about braking too sharply any more.

You shouldn't have to anyway... in that case, they're either too close or too stupid 🙂

So its fine for you to kick someones car, but if they retaliate you would grass them up....

So its fine for you to kick someones car, but if they retaliate you would grass them up....

The difference between a boot at a car and someone attacking me with a 2 tonne vehicle is quite dramatic ?

If i were to kick someones car (as i've done in the past) i would expect them to go to the Police and report me.

Did IQs suddenly drop in the last half an hour when I wasn't looking?

The difference between a boot at a car and someone attacking me with a 2 tonne vehicle is quite dramatic ?

Ahhh I see, so I'm only allowed to retaliate if you deem it appropriate retaliation. I don't think it really works that way.

If i were to kick someones car (as i've done in the past) i would expect them to go to the Police and report me.

Thats strange, I would expect someone to run me over or give me a beating.

Did IQs suddenly drop in the last half an hour when I wasn't looking?

sorry mum

You shouldn't have to anyway... in that case, they're either too close or too stupid

It's surprising how often it happens. I genuinely wondered if it's not seen as that dangerous by motorcyclists.

If we weren't talking about driving / riding motor vehicles I would've sworn weeksy & flow were both 9

If we weren't talking about driving / riding motor vehicles I would've sworn weeksy & flow were both 9

If this wasnt STW, I would have expected a more original, intelligent comment than that.

If I weren't 9 I'd suspect you were both middle aged 😈

I didnt mind motorbikes until I drove (my car) on the A65 between the M6 and Skipton. Some right nutters on there that would lead me to pose the question - "Motorbike drivers - what is your problem?"

Here is the exact spot.

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=google+maps+of+thruscross+reservoir&hl=en&ll=53.993365,-1.732171&spn=0.011706,0.026608&safe=off&t=m&z=16&vpsrc=6&layer=c&cbll=53.993304,-1.733671&panoid=xIGI5_vA8ZpIxGz9eYvOMg&cbp=12,117.63,,0,0.1

Can you imagine how hard it is to do a controlled wheelie at speed on a motorbike. My guess would be 1-1000 motorcyclists could do the above... it's a true art form on a bike.

I know i can't that for sure.

Can you imagine how hard it is to do a controlled wheelie at speed on a motorbike. My guess would be 1-1000 motorcyclists could do the above... it's a true art form on a bike.

I know i can't that for sure.

Easier than doing it slowly thats for sure.

You try doing a wheelie on your bike and keeping it a 5-10mph, them do one accelerating going quick, then report back and tell me I'm right.

I have no doubt it is hard. Does that make it right on a busy public road with solid white lines and a blind summit?

MF: someone did something stupidly dangerous.
Weeksy: wow that is well hard, so cool!
Flow: no it's not anyone can do that!
Donk: Shakes head...
...and leaves the thread.

Weeksy, Flow. Do you have any idea how rediculous you are both making yourselves look? 😐

Actually, you are both SurfMat and I claim my £5.

Weeksy, Flow. Do you have any idea how rediculous you are both making yourselves look?

Actually, you are both SurfMat and I claim my £5.

I started sort of sensibly, but then it all got out of hand 🙂