[Closed] Canadian Canoe

Canoe
Paddles
Bouyancy bags for the canoe
Bouyancy aid for yourselves.
Roof rack.

No advice about learning, my dad taught me as he was a racer.

For going on the sea with? I see your intentions to only go out when it's calm, but how often does that happen up there? It certainly wouldn't be my first choice of craft for such things.

As much as I dislike them, you'd be much better off going to sea with a sit-on-top kayak - plenty of very sea worthy models around.

My kit list for going out to sea is PFD (personal floatation device / buoyancy aid), VHF radio, whistle, flares, spare cag, spare clothing in a dry bag inside a hatch. That's actually a fairly minimal list compared to what a lot take, but then I'm paddling a minimalist racing boat, so anything more seems excessive.

However I can't emphasise enough the importance of getting some training before going to sea, so that you have a clue what you're doing. Not sure what in the way of clubs there are up your way, but surely there must be companies offering training courses not too far away. The sea is a deceptively dangerous place (hence the radio and flares on the kit list - I take them even in a flat calm).

For going on the sea with? I see your intentions to only go out when it's calm, but how often does that happen up there? It certainly wouldn't be my first choice of craft for such things.

As much as I dislike them, you'd be much better off going to sea with a sit-on-top kayak - plenty of very sea worthy models around.

This ^

What part of the west coast are you at? There are loads of suitable clubs up and down the coast. Oban has a great club if you're up that way.

As has been said, they aren't really sea boats. Plenty of good Loch trips in the west tho.

Ask on here....
http://www.songofthepaddle.co.uk/forum/forum.php

I got a Canadian canoe last year but up to now still haven't had time for lessons or to use it! Don't intend to go out on anything other than very sheltered sea lochs & freshwater lochs.

just started taking my oldest along to the a kayak club on the canal in glasgow. they have all types of canoes including canadian, and i think this is a minimum approach before going out inexperienced.
there are weekly meetings and fornightly outings.

Oban and Fort William have great canoe clubs / people - go and join.

Also consider a couple of lessons, I can suggest a couple of great people up there - Ally Conolly lives in Ardgour and Tom Sibbald is there all the time, having a contract in Oban, Fort William and all over.

Sea + no training + open canoe = accident waiting to happen. The weather can change very quickly at sea and if you factor in the tide and currents a human propelled boat can get in trouble rapidly especially if fatigue and fear set in.

I would be looking for small inland waters or similar to start out. Even a big lake / reservoir can get lumpy and unpleasant fairly quickly. Was it Queen Mary sc that used to have the hook line "the best sea sailing in town "?

Sorry you didn't actually say take on the sea.

seeing canoes and canoe related stuff everywhere at the moment, small businesses popping up, canoes on cars etc. Is there a bit of canoeing renaissance going on?
I've just finished Ray Mears 'My Outdoor Life' and he does a wonderful job of extolling the virtues of a gentle paddle in the wilderness. I'm very tempted by one of the self build kits as a result!

I have a little canoe experience and I certainly wouldn't use a Canadian on anything but sheltered inland waters. For Hebridean waters it would have to be a proper kayak, which is the fast ocean-going canoe par excellence. Friends of mine crossed from Shetland to Foula and back in these, the second ever recorded crossing. The kayak is such an efficient small vessel for ocean travel that the Inuit have survived for centuries where the Vikings failed in Greenland because they didn't embrace the technology.

http://www.canoescotland.org/Home.aspx

OP, take a look at Sea Kayaks also. If it's just you and the wife you can get doubles and you can load them up with a surprising amount of kit. I would say they are as much (perhaps more) fun as a Canadian and a lot more sea worthy for when you want to take on some slightly more challenging water. They're also easier to paddle IMO, meaning more mileage.

Second the advice above, especially for Scotland. Get a double sit on to start with - there are some nice designs these days which don't look like bath toys and paddle reasonably well, Wilderness systems Tarpon 130 for instance You are a bit exposed on them but you won't get into too much trouble and they are unsinkable

Then if the bug bites you will probably want to join a club and get into Sea Kayaking - Scotland is made for this.

[img] [/img]

http://www.birchcanoes.com/

This guy is fantastic, taught my other half a few years ago and it's a lovely place.

Go and build it yourself.

For going on the sea with? I see your intentions to only go out when it's calm, but how often does that happen up there? It certainly wouldn't be my first choice of craft for such things.

As much as I dislike them, you'd be much better off going to sea with a sit-on-top kayak - plenty of very sea worthy models around.

This ^

A course would be a good idea if you plan to go onto the sea eventually - it's not just the obvious safety aspects you need to consider, but also things like route planning (ensure you have exit points eg), reading charts, understanding the affects of tide (especially in the UK), wind/fetch, etc etc.

Is there a bit of canoeing renaissance going on?

i had a 16ft mad river canoe for a year or so, there is a definite art to paddling one and i really liked it. if you can check out some of the ray mears shows where he paddles, you will see what i mean. its not like sitting on a sit on a bloated piece of Tupperware and thrashing about like the tourists do down here.

i had to sell mine as i was house rennovating but i would buy another like a shot. my lesson that i learned though is that if you get a plastic one they stunningly heavy, loading on a car is a bitch nigh on impossible on your own, so if you can get a royalex boat.

Except royalex is no longer 🙁

Another vote here for a sea kayak. The Canadian style looks great (not to be discounted) and you can get two people in and some kit but they are really for lakes and rivers. If you want to go anywhere with waves a sealed kayak is a better bet. You can start off with some super simple cheaper ones bought second hand and see what you think. Being out on the water is fabulous.

Surely the sit-on unsinkable versions are meant for leisure users messing around in inland waters? No self-respecting kayaker would be seen dead on one of those, and in any kind of sea you'd get soaked, frozen, and blown away by the wind.

I'm sure you are absolutely right
[img] http://d1k4o5s4mgbr45.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/surf-landing-sit-on-top-kayaks-jersey-lean-into-the-wave.low-brace.jpg [/img][img] http://www.cornwall-canoes.co.uk/sit-on-kayaks/pictures/freedom-action-b.jp g" target="_blank">http://d1k4o5s4mgbr45.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/surf-landing-sit-on-top-kayaks-jersey-lean-into-the-wave.low-brace.jpg [/img][img] http://www.cornwall-canoes.co.uk/sit-on-kayaks/pictures/freedom-action-b.jp g"/> [/img]
[url= https://farm7.staticflickr.com/6145/6015505613_a6ae9660c4_b.jp g" target="_blank">https://farm7.staticflickr.com/6145/6015505613_a6ae9660c4_b.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/aaz3f2 ]P1020282[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/people// ]ScotRoutes[/url], on Flickr

Strictly speaking mine is also a sit on top, and I've been out in F5+ without getting frozen or blown away (soaked admittedly, but that's not a big deal when you're wearing the right kit).

[img] [/img]

And those dodgy open canoes cannot take waves or rough water at all 😆
[url= https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7127/7693494908_9934ebe7c9_o.jp g" target="_blank">https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7127/7693494908_9934ebe7c9_o.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/cHRaZW ]River Tay Canoe[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/people// ]matt_outandabout[/url], on Flickr

[url= https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8320/7931489208_902800788b_o.jp g" target="_blank">https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8320/7931489208_902800788b_o.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/d5SXpW ]River Dochart canoe[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/people// ]matt_outandabout[/url], on Flickr

[url= https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8317/7931356780_cf8bd5ba0b_o.jp g" target="_blank">https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8317/7931356780_cf8bd5ba0b_o.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/d5Sh3G ]River Dochart canoe[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/people// ]matt_outandabout[/url], on Flickr

[url= https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4096/4889415750_921b011f54_o.jp g" target="_blank">https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4096/4889415750_921b011f54_o.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/8s4wXy ]Boof baby, boof[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/people// ]matt_outandabout[/url], on Flickr

[url= https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5298/5586180353_7d6a200099_o.jp g" target="_blank">https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5298/5586180353_7d6a200099_o.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/9vCCNn ]River Orchy, Easan Dubh[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/people// ]matt_outandabout[/url], on Flickr

[url= https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5138/5586118413_751535936f_o.jp g" target="_blank">https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5138/5586118413_751535936f_o.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/9vCjor ]R0011214[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/people// ]matt_outandabout[/url], on Flickr

[url= https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2519/3878769650_883d588dc2_o.jp g" target="_blank">https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2519/3878769650_883d588dc2_o.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/6UKH5N ]Cantle Canoe Trip[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/people// ]matt_outandabout[/url], on Flickr

Cheers guys.
This thread inspired me to pop into a local kayak shop where I saw one of these second hand and slapped down a deposit (so to speak)
[img] [/img]
P&H Capella 166 in mingin green

[quote=matt_outandabout ]And those dodgy open canoes cannot take waves or rough water at all

Yeah, open canoes are great in the right environment - but whilst I'd happily take one down all that (yes, really) I'd still not want one on the sea. The issues are different.

I dunno - stick enough bouyancy in the thing, and fire a sail on it and it's good to go anywhere. 😉

No self-respecting kayaker would be seen dead on one of those, and in any kind of sea you'd get soaked, frozen, and blown away by the wind.

Quite fancy trying a sea kayak. Would like to get a double to go out with my son, but have heard doubles are a nightmare to right??? SOT therefore better, but can't get so excited. Grew up in small craft, so have a good feel for being on the water, but canoe experience limited to a bit of inland kayaking and Canadian paddling.

Would certainly welcome any advice that folks have to offer

I would concur with Sea kayak or SOT for any beginner west coast boating. On the return from this trip at this point here the time from flat calm and tolerable to 30 minutes of slog against head wind and wind against tide was 5 minutes. It was fun though and predicted and the option of stopping and waiting was always open.

Any hand paddler would have to be really fit to beat it or line it along the shore. My boat has pedals and a lot of torque so upwind stuff is possible for a fair amount of time.

A canadian style boat in the hands of a beginner and expert would have to retreat or if attempted would have been on the news.

My folks tour in some luxury in an Alouette 2 but are extremely cautious. They just stay on the land if there is any chance of capsizing conditions. and the boat is way more capable than they are so reduce risks to minimum.

[img] [/img]

Compared to a white water kayak any sea kayak is entertaining to right and a double is very difficult without a lot of practice.

Some really good posts. Lots of fun to be had.

For all things kayak related check out - http://www.unsponsored.co.uk/press/

or have a look at uk rivers guidebook forum.
Lots of good info on all forms of paddling, some good bun fights, but not much chat about logburners.

Wilderness systems Tarpon 130

Looks very tempting

Completely OT but here's some white water pron. Love the standing wave at 22:40