[Closed] Can you tell by inspection if a cam belt has been changed?

Walk away.
Mondeos are not rare.

1. Check its not a chain, some ford TDCis are I believe
2. If it is a belt, at 121k it should perhaps have been done twice.

Yep, was going to say it maybe should have been done twice. I think officially it's 80 or 100k, but haynes says 60k (for my 1.8tdci focus anyway).

There will be writing on the belt which will gradually wear off with use.
If the writing is bright white, it's probably only been on less than a few hundred miles.
If it's dull and worn, it will be somewhere between a few hundred and 121 000 miles.

I would go with Geoffj in that it should have had 2 belt changes by now

buy it and change it. isnt this the first thing you do when you buy a car? you cannot trust anyone, especially a dealer!

In my experience of car dealers, 'my mechanic looked at it' means it hasn't been done.

Even if it has been done you don't know when.

My experience of a 'fully serviced car' was that it hadn't been serviced at all, or at least not to fix the things they claimed to have fixed. On the plus side Derby Car Centre ended up paying me the best part of three grand to buy back a car that I bought from them for under two, thank goodness for the small claims process!

When it happened to me though the garage refused to pay me back when I found out their mistake, and it took six months of court process to get my money back and get rid of the car, so in future I would treat anything that a car dealer sa's that they don't have a written receipt for as being a lie and so should you. Find another car. Way quicker than fighting them in the courts for months.

Which car is it, 1.6, 1.8, 2.0 or 2.2 TDCI? And what year?

Mk3 or Mk4?

No paperwork to prove it (receipts, garage bill etc) then it probably hasn't been done. My garage puts a sticker on the top of the cambelt cover with the date it was changed and the mileage when it was done, again it is there for you to see.

If your not sure either walk away or get it done straight away.

No proof = didn't happen.

But say you'll take the car - if they do the cambelt with their mechanic in-house.

Mondeos are not rare.

All the info I've found suggests the change interval is either 100k or 125k

I suspect I'm probably going to go with porter_jamie's suggestion.

If its a cheap change, just tell them you'll go half on the cost.

But tbh, if you take a look you can see whether its either new or needs changing - hard inbetween.

If its a cheap change, just tell them you'll go half on the cost.

Yep without proof, assume its not done. Even if the belt looks new can you be sure they've changed the tensioners?

I bought a car from a dealer and asked for the belt to be changed, they did it, but didn't replace the tensioners. It flew off a few days later, needed an engine rebuild (at their expense after several months and a court summons was issued).

for that little money are

Q. Why is it so cheap?

A. It's probably due a belt change 😉

But say you'll take the car - if they do the cambelt with their mechanic in-house.

No never, don't be an idiot. In-house mechanic doing something means that they could do whatever they like, they could even do nothing. For example in my experience, when someone selling a car says they will 'fix the engine problem that is causing the warning light to show' (and is silly enough to put that in writing even!), they in fact permanently disable the engine warning light and do nothing about the engine problem. If you are going to get it changed, get it changed by a reliable independent garage, and factor that cost into the cost of the car.

Current model estates with roof rails for that little money are. It is also otherwise a very decent nick car for the price.

If it's massively cheaper than other similar cars then it means there's likely to be something wrong with it. Dealers know how much cars are worth. If it had nothing wrong with it then he'd have sold it for the same as other similar cars.

Also check whether waterpump needs doing at the same time, recommended on many - although my last car was a chaindrive the waterpump seized because it'd never been changed and its bearings were made of goats cheese...

If its a MK3 2.0 Tdci then theres no cam belt.Chain driven.
There is a long belt on the end of the engine for alternator and such which Ford say will last to 100K.Just had mine done at 72k as the crank pulley had gone so new belt as well.£160 inc labour.With a full kit including tensioner probably another £100 on top.
I'd be more bothered about the clutch and dmf at that mileage.On a car around 2004 vintage dmf problem may mean scrapping time.

If it's massively cheaper than other similar cars then it means there's likely to be something wrong with it. Dealers know how much cars are worth. If it had nothing wrong with it then he'd have sold it for the same as other similar cars.

It's not massively cheaper - not given the miles on it - just that there aren't many around with the roof rails. Anyway I did get the AA to look at it, so if there is something wrong it's something very non-obvious (his first comments being that it's a pretty sound car all things considered. I got an inspection done as I was a bit concerned about it being too cheap, and was actually partly interested in the dealer's reaction to asking to have that done - he was very happy with that.

I reckon I'll get it done myself - still not a bad deal even factoring that in (good call, sobriety). I did know what it is I am getting, and got a bit caught up in trying to get an even better deal. Oh, and it's a mk4 08 reg (1.8) for those thinking it might be a bit older - I'm taking a chance on going the newer but higher mileage route to economy motoring, the relatively low price I think because people are happy with under 100k miles, but put off by the extra 20k.

Thanks for all the help folks - has helped me get my head straight on this.

As joegg says it's a chain cam, no belt to change. The fact the dealer doesn't know this and it telling porkies would concern me!

It's a 1.8, not a 2.0 - it has a belt.

If you have to have that particular car get the Cam belt changed by someone you trust.
You could keep shopping. A bargain always comes up.
I was a used car salesman once. I sucked.

You could keep shopping. A bargain always comes up.

I've been looking for months. This is one of only a handful of Mk4 Mondeos with roof rails within my budget within 50 miles of here which have come up for sale. The trouble being the roof rails aren't a standard item on a Mk4 and only available as a factory fitted extra (maybe I should have gone for a different car, but I got myself set on a Mondeo for the cavernous boot).

IF it turns out to be the belt driven engine and you get the belt done, do a proper job of it. Get the belt, tensioners and the water pump changed. I see it all the time, people change just the belt and a few thousand miles later the pump or tensioner or idle pulley fall to bits recking the engine.

An old Mondeo with that mileage on it is going to be a money pit IMO.

Aren't all TDCIs 2 litre?

Don't trust the in-house job (I'm sure there are decent garages that do what they say) but my bora is having it's ecu swapped out thanks to a "nah, it's nothing, we'll sort it" from the sellers. Garage i (semi) trust say it's been fiddled with, if it's recoverable then £300ish for that part of the job if not looking at the best part of £2k by the time a new ones sourced fitted sent to VW for coding of keys etc.

At that mileage I'd suggest idlers and tensioners would want doing to! Had mine done with the cam belt as I didn't think one was worth doing without the other.

Aren't all TDCIs 2 litre?

http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=52025

If it turns out to be the belt driven engine and you get the belt done, do a proper job of it.

Indeed - I believe the standard kit comes with tensioners, and the water pump is only ~£30. I already asked the dealer about the water pump (and pointed out I'd heard of plenty of belts going due to bearings seizing in one of those - I still think putting anything other than the cam on such a critical component is madness given the availability of other drive belts). Thanks for the reminder though.

An old Mondeo with that mileage on it is going to be a money pit IMO.

Though it's not actually an old Mondeo, just high mileage - I'm hoping its lots of motorway miles, in which case it's likely no more worn out than something with half the mileage. In any case an awful lot of the more expensive bills I was starting to get with my current car were more age than mileage related. IMO.

Don't trust the in-house job

This thread has helped me come to that conclusion - thanks everybody. I think it's only a £200 job to have it done myself, and will help my peace of mind.

If you are happy with the car, you feel that the price is fair, and the AA did not turn up any nasties. Then buy it ! Why wouldn't you ? Then get the belt replaced you will know where and when it was done, this may also be be a point to ask the dealer to give you a little bit of money off just to help towards the cost.

£160 quid gets you roof bars that will go on without roof rails.

If its a 2.0L up to and inc 04 its a ford unit and its a chain cam with no DPF. 05 onwards its a pug/Citroen unit with a cam belt and DPF.

£160 quid gets you roof bars that will go on without roof rails.

You think I want to carry around one of these:
[img] [/img]

or even one of these:
[img] [/img]

on roof bars attached <1m apart to the inside of the doors? There is a good reason I want roof rails. Carrying a couple of the doubles in the first picture up to Fort Bill and back put enough load on the roof rails on my current car that I had to take the roof lining off and retighten them!

Thanks, landcruiser - a bit of reassurance is always nice. Though I think I'm more likely to get blood out of a stone than any money off now - he was grumbling about paying to fix the cruise control.

Water pump isn't driven by the timing belt on the 1.8tdci
Can't remeber the service interval exactly off the top of my head but it used to be 100,000 miles though they have increased it to 125,000 and 150,000 on various models.
Belt kit will come as a belt and newer style automatic tensioner. Special tools a requied to pin the crank etc. 2.5 hour job , straight forward enough 🙂

Or you could wing it and run it til it dies like I'm currently doing with a car.

(just got the service book out lol..)

The last timing belt etc was fitted on 22/08/05 Mileage 132,539 miles.

Its now on 231k miles!

I iz winging it in full effect :O)

Walk away.

Aracer if you're still reading these comments? Get the belt done for your piece of mind but don't have the dealer you're buying from do it, they'll turn you over, it's just not worth the risk. Also ensure the tensioner is replaced in the job as I know mechanics who don't always bother. Mondeos are great cars and vastly underrated 😀

Find a ford forum and see if you can order the Ford roof rails for a reasonable price. I bet they can be fitted afterwards and it will open up your choice of cars.

Pay abit more and getting a younger/lower miler then YOU put the miles on.

Coming from a tightass... dont be one! 😀

Never trust a seller unless you see a bill/receipt.

If its a 1.8 then the intervals are 125k or 120 months whichever comes first.

Aracer if you're still reading these comments?

Yes - and I've decided to follow your advice (though you're not the first to offer it) - not worth saving ~£90 to get the dealer to pay half to do it with his bloke rather than me getting it done with somebody who's accountable directly to me. Thanks for the service interval confirmation, andydicko - that matches what I've seen previously.

Pay abit more and getting a younger/lower miler then YOU put the miles on.

The thing is, you pay a lot more for the 20k miles less to take it under 100k for a similar age car, which is the alternative - like 30% to 40% more. That's not just that the car I'm buying is cheap - the price is similar on other similar mileage cars. I presume people rationalise that 95k is not that much mileage, but 120k is mega miles. Now if you assume that 20k miles is 30% of the life I get out of it, I only need to manage 60k miles to be ahead, and I see plenty of reports of these sort of cars and drivetrains doing well over 200k - it will also still be under 10 years old when it reaches that.

Alternatively I could get a car 3 or so years older with 80k miles on for similar money, and I'm less than convinced that will have less wear and more usable future life in it - not only that, it would also be the older model. Unless of course you're suggesting never buying a car which is more than 3 years old with average mileage, and that buying an older cheaper car is a bad idea economically - all rational calculations suggest otherwise if you include depreciation.

TBH I'd already rationalised the age/mileage/price thing, and was only after advice on what I did about the cambelt on a car I'm buying.

Or you could wing it and run it til it dies like I'm currently doing with a car.

Well the cambelt on the car I'm getting rid of was over 80k miles ago - I realised the cost of getting it done was likely more than I could sell the car for.