having grown up in the countryside, farms and all I have no issues as to killing an animal, be it our of mercy, for food or, dare I say it, for sport. But I'm well aware that many of my friends, including a few from similar backgrounds, don't have that "ability" to even put an animal down even if it were to be euthanasia.
I met a friend recently who's dog was, should we say, a very long way past its best, now I offered to take it away and quietly and painlessly set it to rest but my offer was refused.
I know the animal is suffering, what would you suggest?
Eating its liver with a fine chianti?
Damn. It gets grim on the forum after midnight...
Did the friend have an issue with ending the animal's life or with you doing it?
I suggest you present them with a dog sized coffin for christmas then repeat your offer on christmas day - they were probably just concerned about the burial costs.
Stealth is your friend. Can I suggest a high velocity sniper rifle from a good distance. Neither your mate or his dog will know what happened. In fact, if it weren't for the dog's head exploding then your buddy may well believe that it was natural causes.
I've had to put down a couple of mangled but alive mice that the cat has brought in. I found it a very unpleasent thing to do.
Is ur mate intentionally causing the dog suffering. Is it because of an injury/health issue or age. I think this makes a difference on the action you are proposing..
It's down to your friend to make the decision on his dog. He knows it best, and if he's happy that it still has quality of life he should let it carry on. It's always a tough call though and people are prone to letting sick animals go on just a little too long.
As someone who works in a wildlife hospital I see death all the time, it's an inevitable part of the work and when it's best to pts, we pts.
Not sure what your method of euthanasia might be, MrNutt, but I think your friend would be best employing the services of a vet.
Yeah, I've killed stuff. Then gutted it. Then eaten it. I draw the line at dogs though..... 😉
Depends what part of the world you live in.
>Yeah, I've killed stuff. Then gutted it. Then eaten it. I draw the line at dogs though.....
Did you dispose of the remains in the quarry ? Perhaps her parents would like to know....
...I have no issues as to killing an animal...
MrNutt, is your real name Dexter? 😆
(apologies for the selective quote)
I've taken many animals' lives, but I'd never suggest I take a friend's dogs life simply because I consider it over the hill; that would be more than intrusive and positively arrogant.
That's the role of a vet, both in the initial suggestion that the dog might now be suffering and also in the final act.
I can't imagine your methods will be an improvement on what a vet offers in their final solution, in all likelihood you'd make a utter hash of it & it'd be less than dignified.
Can I safely assume (& fervently hope) you are not a dog owner by your cavalier attitude to someone elses family pet?
Shooting a pigeon and putting it on the family table & suggesting your pal's dog would be better served under your hatchet are not one & the same.
If you believe the animal is suffering you should inform the RSPCA. What you consider to be suffering might not be anothers. I almost got embroiled in such a scenario at a ex's and they have working Coliies.
PS - I stopped using mouse traps after seeing several mice, caught in the tradition trap, still alive, with their backs broken. Not what I had envisaged and unnecessary suffering was caused by my laying of traps. They're a damn pest though!
4 mice in the last week!
I absolutely hate killing things needlessly.
I catch and release spiders, and worry about the number of moths hitting the car at night.
Having said that, I do still eat meat and I can comfortably catch, kill, gut and eat a fish.
In hind-sight, I think I may have been a little harsh.
For myself, I can tell you two stories....
Whilst back packing through Indonesia, in a predominantly Muslim region of Java, I think, I happened upon a dog being teased by many local kids. This dog was a surviving runt of a litter, it was in one Hell of an awful state, it swayed and staggered like a blind drunk, it’s body was distorted and ravaged, I’ve never seen a creature even vaguely similar to this animal. I asked the hotel owner about it and he stated they never do anything about such animals, let alone a mercy killing.
This is the 1st time I’ve ever related this story; so after a while of observing the constant harassment of this creature, I took the dog out into the surf & strangled it. I looked into its eyes as this seemed somehow the right thing to do, if not for him, but for me. I still have a strange rash on my wrist from this dog. Soon after, it was suggested that I leave the town.
Another incident was whilst backpacking in Egypt on the Red Sea. A local feral cat had been knocked down by a car and was in constant pain, lying up in the shade of a bush. No one wanted to do anything about it, no vet would be called and people found it humorous in some way. I established up front if anyone owned the animal and was pretty much laughed at!
I took a milk crate, which was more gaps and holes than plastic, managed to get hold of the cat & walked out into the sea, and again I performed a mercy killing.
Sometimes action is called for and I have no regrets about my having the courage of my convictions with regard to both the dog and the cat, but I still think about both animals and hope that my actions lessened their pain.
Wanna practice on my dog?
I still have a strange rash on my wrist from this dog
How long ago was this?
Perhaps you've been cursed?
MOTHS????? FFS!!!!!
A vet for the dog who will give a professional opinion.
When my little brother's much-loved pet rabbit got very ill, my stepdad told my brother he was going to put it out of its misery, and did he want to watch.
He proceeded to stand on the rabbit's body and shoot it in the head with an airgun, with my nine year old brother watching. Needed three pellets to finish the job with the rabbit twitching crazily in between pellets.
Still, bro is studying law at NW Uni, Chicago, so he obviously wasn't too traumatised....
Suffering isn't an absolute, it depends entirely on the overall "quality of life"
Personally, after years of killing things for various reasons, my tolerance of suffering is pretty low, and I tend to think its better to put something like a dog down rather than go through the stress of operations and long term medication.
However I had a good chat with one of our company vets some years back, and he pointed out that if a dog is in a loving, caring family, its perfectly possible for the animal to be happy and contented even in if is suffering to some extent, for example chronic pain from arthritis, as long as the owner takes steps to alleviate the pain with analgesia etc - at the same time, the balance of "when to put it down" would fall earlier with something like a farm or lab animal, as its overall quality of life is not offset by the care and contentment of being in a family home and close interaction with its owners.
One of my mums two Hungarian Viszlas has epilepsy, and after some pondering we chose to leave it unmedicated, as stress of the one fit every few months wouldn't offset the effect of the constant medication - it the fits increase in frequency at any time, we'll revisit the decision.
However clearly, some people are entirely anthropomorphic, and treat their pets as child substitutes, unwilling to call a day when clearly things have gone too far 😕
No then, regards "can you kill?" Here's me yesterday after a bloody great day out:
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Did you shoot them from a tower?
Couple of bloody and twitching rabbits (bashed in the head with a handy brick). A bird or two injured and in extremis (strangle and head-pull).
I would say that, you've made your offer and been refused. The pain the dog is in is down to the owner and there's nothing further you can do about it, unless you're concerned enough to report the situation to the RSPCA...
I could, if I needed to. I've put a few animals down that were beyond repair, but as above I dont think its an absolute position - it depends on many factors.
But I don't understand *wanting* to kill animals, that just seems entirely wrong to me and I worry about those who do or are so happy to jump to do it (in a vague sense, not staying awake at night). Why would you find it fun to take another animals life? Don't give me the sport excuse. If it's required to keep things under control, fine, but don't enjoy it and take photos. If it's not required I think it takes a slightly odd mind to enjoy ending somethings life.
ZE - you look like a serious psycho in that image, as others have alluded to.
I absolutely hate killing things needlessly.
I can comfortably catch, kill, gut and eat a fish.
Something doesn't quite stack up there.
But I don't understand *wanting* to kill animals, that just seems entirely wrong to me and I worry about those who do or are so happy to jump to do it
Sombody has to kill all the meat in the supermarket, and there's nothing wrong with going out and catching or shooting your own. As long as it's for food it's perfectly OK. 🙂
Sombody has to kill all the meat in the supermarket, and there's nothing wrong with going out and catching or shooting your own. As long as it's for food it's perfectly OK.
If I had to shoot and eat my own food I would, but I wouldn't enjoy doing it. I'd enjoy eating it and find the shooting bit just a neccessity. To WANT to go and shoot your food seems like the actions of someone I'd rather not be (or have in the world around me). It's not the act that's bothering me, it's the intention and enjoyment factor.
Not sure some of the things on here count as mercy killing tbh...l would not want the mercy you have shown some of the animals on this thread.
If i had to probably could/would. Have I done so not yet.
As for killing for sport I just dont get it. Surely everyone knows it is bad to kill but for fun? Find that a bit worrying tbh.
CK - you're confusing a pleasure in the act of killing with "wanting" to go and shoot some food. Your problem, not a hunters.
Coffeeking - I cannot see why it should be so taboo to take enjoyment from the process of culling an animal (as part of an organised culling programme) any more than it should be taboo to take enjoyment from cooking and eating it, its all part of the circle of life, and I'll guarantee you that anyone who's ever killed their own food has a far, far greater respect for animals than those who buy it prepackaged from the supermarket in a plastic tray.
How can you say its acceptable to enjoy eating something, but not take [i]responsibility[/i] for the death of the animal - What I know for sure is that the two deer above have led a clean, green nuclear free life, in the wild, without being pumped full of hormones and without being carted around the country in a wagon before slaughter in a meat factory.
Happily walking along, in your own habitat, then wallop, bullet spot on through the engine room and down like a sack of spuds - I suggest you go and visit a pig farm sometime, and draw your own comparisons on exactly why is acceptable to celebrate the life, and death of something.
For what its worth, two deer was a days stalking, in which I saw probably eighteen deer of which only three were safe, clear in season shots, and one of those was a longish range clear miss - thats a fairly good sporting chance, and a lot better than they'd get in a slaughterhouse.
How can you say its acceptable to enjoy eating something, but not take responsibility for the death of the animal
I quite enjoy having a sh1t. Wouldn't fancy working in a sewage farm though.
Having said that Ratty, I agree 100% with your comment about [i]"the two deer above have led a clean, green nuclear free life, in the wild, without being pumped full of hormones and without being carted around the country in a wagon before slaughter in a meat factory."[/i]
>I know the animal is suffering, what would you suggest?<
You didn't mention anything about being a trained Vet so I'd probably advise you to mind your own business.
Stoner - no i'm not, wanting to go and shoot some food is taking pleasure in killing unless you have no other choice. The end result is the same, I agree, and somewhere along the line it has to have been killed, but the desire to end somethings life is the difficult bit here.
ZE - I have killed and eaten my own food, many times in the past (fish), I have a very great respect for animals. But I don't take enjoyment from the process. I can't imagine how you could. Whether it's more humane than the slaughterhouse isn't at question here (that depends how good you are and whether they do their job right). And whether you scored fewer than you saw/aimed for is totally irrelevant, their chance to escape means nothing in this question. The point is you have a choice between killing something yourself and not killing something yourself. By choosing the former it does not mean you have more respect or take more responsibility, it just means you can enjoy your sport (which is clearly the primary factor here) and can then pay lipservice to responsibility and attempt to take a moral high ground as a cover story for your lust for putting lead through somethings head.
Sure the deer had a nicer life, I won't argue that. I'd like to see all my food have that sort of life.
You could liken it to being an executioner (in more ways than one) - he might be doing the country a service and it might be nicer than letting people rot in jail for life, but if he loved the process of sharpening his knife and watching the body twitch you'd think he was a nut job. I think people who like hunting fall pretty close to that line.
I shall defend ratty a bit here.
Deer stalking - the deer need to be culled as they are vermin that destroy habitats and eat everything in sight causing serious erosion. Deer stalking is as humane a process as is possible in killing animals. One moment its grazing away happily - the next it has a high velocity bullet in it and its dead - and the deer get eaten.
compare that to fox hunting - where the animal is deliberately chased for as long as possible - faster dogs could be set on it but thats no fun.
There is also a serious skill factor in deer stalking.
Coffeeking - you don't take pleasure from fishing then? Its a damn sight crueller than deer stalking
TJ - Ratty needs no defence, he's intelligent enough to do it himself and I'm sure he has his beliefs.
Whether they need culling or not isn't really important. And that's questionable too, but I accept it as-is. I also think it is a lot more humane than fox hunting, totally agree. I also know (I like guns, I love shooting in a range) there's a skill to it. But as you all seem to be missing, it's the enjoyment of ending somethings life that isn't so nice.
At the end of the day you're choosing to kill something. Maybe it needs killing, maybe it's better than buying it in Tesco, maybe it takes years of skills practice to do. But to WANT to kill it, odd.
[edit]
Fishing - No, I used to do it because it was what my family did to pass some time as a kid/teenager. I rapidly found that the process of dragging the fish in and ending its life was not not fun or pleasant for it and that as I didn't enjoy doing that I didn't want to continue doing it, so I stopped. I found anglers fell into two vague catagories - those who were fishing because they liked to "beat the fish" in some way, prove their abilities to catch it and those who were just fishing for a living. Those who were fishign for a living seemed to have more appreciation for the fish and less of a BS macho drive and blood lust than those who were for sport.
Coffeeking - no I am not missing the point at all. Did you enjoy your fishing? Now thats cruel. Draging an animal around by a hook in its mouth.
Why not let people enjoy the stalking - it provides huge amounts of money charging people to do it and its very controlled.
Edit - missed your edit - I agree its very bizzare to want to do it but I see no great harma s the deer need to be killed somehow - unless you want the entire landscape to be a treeless eroded mess
Coffeeking, Its reflective of the gradual urbanisation of the country and subsequent removal from the act of killing that you think its i) OK to get someone to do it for you, but not do it yourself, and ii) should be some kind of taboo, evil act that we'd rather not think about, let alone enjoy.
If you enjoy eating meat, then you are directly enjoying the death of an animal for your own personal gratification, whether you get someone else to do the nasty stuff for you or not, its still all part of it.
Personally, I love deer, its been a lifelong passion, and I get as much enjoyment from seeing them out in the fields on a bike ride as I do from spending a day stalking - I'd put forward that most people like seeing cute little lambs gamboling around in the fields, and also enjoy eating it, but they don't want to connect that with the act of killing
Thats a cultural taboo thats entirely to do with not wanting to take responsibility for ending that life, a societal disconnect that cheapens death, and makes cheap meat something thats acceptable in the shops (£2.99 chickens anyone) society likes to get someone to do the dirty work for them, its not that it morally or ethically shouldn't be acceptable to enjoy killing, its just that we prefer not to think about the fact that someone does it for us.
[edit]
Perhaps the question should be, if you don't enjoy killing fish, should it really be acceptable, morally, for you to eat the fish - why is it morally acceptable to get someone to drag fish out the sea in a net and kill them for money, just so that you can take enjoyment from eating it (its not a necessity, humans can thrive on a vegetarian diet) If anything, the moral vaccum is on the side of those who cannot do it themselves, but enjoy reaping the benefits!
i used to think you should be able to kill something if you want to eat meat.
however whats wrong with this: i dont fancy killing this would you do it for me? yeah give it here.
how society works i think.
TJ - just finished an edit, see above.
ZE - I'm aware of that argument but it doesnt fly with me. How does loving an animal marry up to shooting it in the head? "oooh thats a lovely deer, I respect it deeply - BANG - woo that was fun!". I'm fully aware that every piece of meat I eat came from a dead animal that was happily going about its life a few weeks before it hit my plate, I'm not that naive. I buy eggs that are open-air eggs (not free range/shed based ones) from my local farm. I buy more expensive chickens that I hope (you can't be sure) have been raised in nice places with space. I'm aware that my need for food requires death. I just don't take enjoyment from it.
Letting someone else do it in a "kind" way does not mean I don't accept responsibility for it, or mean that somehow I am sheilding myself from reality. It just means that I dont *enjoy* killing things.
Perhaps the question should be, if you don't enjoy killing fish, should it really be acceptable, morally, for you to eat the fish - why is it morally acceptable to get someone to drag fish out the sea in a net and kill them for money, just so that you can take enjoyment from eating it (its not a necessity, humans can thrive on a vegetarian diet) If anything, the moral vaccum is on the side of those who cannot do it themselves, but enjoy reaping the benefits!
Why does the act of killing the fish yourself make it more acceptable to eat it? But that distracting question aside (as it isnt the point in question) - why do you enjoy killing deer? When it boils down to it you just enjoy ending somethings life. You didn't wake up one morning and think you needed to change the way you sourced food.
Anyway, I have work to do. I sit somewhere on the fence (despite playing devils advocate here) but I'm not convinced its good to enjoy killing things, regardless of whether its a right or wrong way to get food. Vegetarianism isn't ideal (I've yet to meet a veggie who wasn't ill and pale looking!) and I believe we are animals designed to eat animals as well as veg, but I struggle solely with the enjoyment factor.
That's right. I've killed women and children. I've killed just about everything that walks or crawls at one time or another
Bill Munny
> I absolutely hate killing things needlessly.
> I can comfortably catch, kill, gut and eat a fish.Something doesn't quite stack up there.
Only because you skipped the bit where I said I eat meat.
I don't consider killing something to eat it as "needless".
Likewise I don't have a problem Zulu-Eleven killing those deer if they were eaten afterwards (or used in some other useful way). But if it was purely for the "fun" of watching them die then I personally find that a little distasteful. And a bit odd.
CK - no, you don't have a "need" for meat, its a preference.
90% of us would say its enjoyable to eat a nice piece of steak/venison/fish - thats directly gaining personal enjoyment from the (needless?) death of an animal.
to say that is OK, whereas gaining enjoyment from completing the cycle is fooling yourself.
whereas gaining enjoyment from completing the cycle is fooling yourself.
I'm fooling noone, to assume I was would suggest I was not aware of some part of the process.
Read above for more detail.
My problem is not the eating/killing, it's enjoying doing it. I've yet to meet a hunting type who didn't enjoy seeing a bit of blood spatter and ripping guts out.
if you wanted to join a hunt when i was a youth you had to be blooded.
have the stuff rubbed on your face.ffs.
luckily i never wanted to join one.
[i]didn't enjoy seeing a bit of blood spatter and ripping guts out.[/i]
And what, EXACTLY is morally wrong with that?
its part of the process of making an animal into a nice tasty piece of meat - if its part of the process, then there is no moral difference between enjoying that, and enjoying the fruits of that labour - you cannot have one without the other
Not this week,too windy.
No one ever admits to kill things for the enjoyment of it - the thrill of the hunt, with no intention of eating what they have killed.
Well, i will.
I shoot some things to eat, and other things like Crows and Magpies, simply because I can.
Yes theyre designated as a pest as they take sheep eyes, young birds etc, but theyre not that big of a problem. I do it simply because I enjoy it.
Now I do draw a line, you can shoot Rooks and Jays, but I choose not to, Rooks spend most of their lives eating Leather Jackets and Grubs, and Jays acorns etc. I often have the opportunity, but couldnt tell you the last time I shot either.
Christ, the shit my dog (or should I say "I") got on here when I posted that she had nibbled a deer's cheek.
Someone put Zulu-Eleven on a lead!
😯
I couldn't kill the mouse that our cat brought in last night, just gave it back to the cat & kicked her out with it! 🙁
I've thought many times about getting rid of the cat coz she's such an effective hunter & it stresses me out that she's killing off the rodent population from the nearby fields. She nearly got a grouse the other week FFS!
A grouse!
Where do you live?
wysiwyg I really worry that anyone can enjoy death and killing. It is just not normal behaviour.
Z-11 - A bit better than wysiwyg but to kill for sport is something most people are uncomfortabke with. It is not because we dont live in the countryside it is because we are not murdering b@stards.
I agree most people are hypocritical on the issue and are happy to let others kill their food for them despite the fact they could never kill it themselves. However neither of you are discussing the food chain you are both enjoying killing.
Imagine I did this to free range MTB'ers who have had good lifes...you know better than people in Africa ... and I just shot them as they enjoyed a day in the trail because well I can. I will call it sport as I may miss. You would rightly think I am a nutter. You only have to change the prey to get yourself.
If you can't see exactly what's morally wrong with killing animals for fun then it simply means your morals are different from other peoples, and I would say you're morally wrong, you have the right to your opinion. I think it's sick to derive pleasure from the act of killing things, you don't, thats fine, but dont get upset when I say it, and don't accuse me of being naive or fooling myself - im fully aware of the food chain and natural ways of life. Ive less of a problem with people like nomadic cultures who have no source of food other than that that they kill, enjoying and celebrating the kill as it means they can eat - there's a difference, they have no choice.
wysiwyg - humans are pests, wrecking the planet and making the lives of other animals a mess AND they know they're doing it. Get the sniper rifle out.