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only thing I miss is the AWD.
Yet most SUV's are not 4wd/AWD.
And in my experience, all-season tyres are better on roads in crappy weather than a 4wd/awd/4x4 = and that included Defenders and similar.
My Kuga was ace... but a bit wallowy... apart from the wallowy handling, it was a nice place to be.
The Transit is even more wallowy... but it's a van.
I am not a 'driver' or indeed care about handling and performance though.
It's just the same as fat bikes, mullet, LLS, gravel bikes, flat barred gravel bikes, gravel bike shoes, 27.5 vs 29 etc.
Marketing
Now it may just be a case that there are more SUV’s around nowadays, and 10 years ago the headline could have read “Carbon emissions from global SUV car fleet outweighs that of most countries””
Quite possibly, IIRC the Ford F-150 is Ford's top selling model in the US. The Kia Sportage is Kia's top selling model in the UK. People love SUVs and given our economies are geared around people buying houses and cars, I can't really see much changing in the next few decades (other than the SUVs being electric).
Oh and also this https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/feb/28/carbon-emissions-global-suv-sport-utility-vehicles-oil-climate
Now it may just be a case that there are more SUV’s around nowadays,
A lot of manufacturers have cut more conventional models and replaced them with a car that they call an SUV. So the Quashquai thing replaces both the Almera and the Primera so they dont sell those mid and large family cars anymore but they sell a car to the same customers and call it an SUV. The Fiesta is going and the car people would buy instead is the Ecosport thats essentially the same car - but it would be called an SUV. So to a great extent 'SUV' is a name applied to the lot of the car market by the marketeers but the cars haven't fundamentally changed in anything but appearance.
You could apply the same logic to vans - the largest proportion of emissions from vans will come from White Vans because there are more White vans than any other colour. I can feel smug that I'm not contributing to that problem because my van is dark grey and us Dark Grey van drivers only contribute to a small percentage of overall van emissions.
They're very mixed IME. Our Yeti was amazingly utilitarian, yet comfortable and frugal. Once you learned that the boot had to packed vertically then it was supremely practical. Our Kodiaq was far less practical, but more luxurious. A jacked up superb that would have been better as a superb. 3rd row of seats were a joke. Boot space was smaller than my dad's superb and less practical than the yeti. That said, it was beautiful to drive. We replaced it with a t5 caravelle as we need space for 7, two of which are elderly and increasingly infirm. The velle is in essence a Yet that's been stretched in every dimension.
Bro-in-law has had a string of SUVs. All as far as I can see are awful things - Qashkai, Juke, X-trail. The Juke was the worst of the lot - a reverse tardis that was neither practical, frugal or indeed in any way nice.
in my experience, all-season tyres are better on roads in crappy weather than a 4wd/awd/4×4
Thankfully they're not mutually exclusive 😉
The term SUV is mostly marketing shizz, the head wants a utility vehicle but the heart wants a sports car. Hey this has both! Now I don't need to feel bad about getting the high upright vehicle I prefer - and boy do folk prefer them!
Nothing against them personally though I prefer estates because Mrs foo can't get a bike on the roof of anything taller and you can go high performance a bit more incognito than a SUV!
What's weird is, how small some of them are. An Evoque is actually only 13cm taller than a Fiesta.
One of the main reasons we live in a car-centric society is that too many people care about, or have been persuaded by years of marketing that they care about, DRIVING.
This +1
The modern world is wierd. You're going to spend enough money to buy a house in parts of the north, then it's going to cost you £2.5k+ a year to run it. Then spend hours sat in it commuting to a job to pay for it.
Add up what you spend on cars over a working life, then add it together with the compound interest, and work out how much earlier you could retire.
Like driving a jelly but without the stability.
I have an SUV that would take issue with that!
At least I think it's an SUV - they are not all the same.
There is nothing a SUV does better than a good estate or hatch
I'd like to see one that could pull my 2.5 ton boat!
stevextc
Unless hedges and walls get higher that’s not totally the case.
Most of my driving (certainly by time) is on narrow country roads and the H2 Master is much “nicer” than the old BMW if you aren’t in any rush (which I’m not)
I think being higher gives a slightly better view of the road itself. Extreme example (just to illustrate the point) would be switching between bumper cam and above the car view on a computer game.
Small penis syndrome 😉
Few seem to think about how resource hungry these things are; there's more of everything in them, metal, plastic, marketing fluff and a sense of self importance...
So, digs aside, additional scarce resources are consumed in building them. They're proportionally heavier, which is really bad news if one hits you when you're on foot, a bike or in a smaller vehicle. Despite some recent moderate improvements, pedestrian safety remains compromised, compared with a lower car bonnet. SUVs do use more fuel, there's no getting away from it; for a given amount of internal volume, they're heavier, use lumpier, more flexible tyres generally and are less aero shaped. Ye cannae change the laws of physics..
They're a lot less stable in emergency, accident avoiding situations; a wee tap and they're over, when a normal car might have stayed the right way up. As they're seen as more aspirational cars, parts pricing has crept up too, says my friendly mechanic. No thanks; I'll stick to the big estate, currently a Superb.
thisisnotaspoon
The modern world is wierd. You’re going to spend enough money to buy a house in parts of the north, then it’s going to cost you £2.5k+ a year to run it. Then spend hours sat in it commuting to a job to pay for it.
Not that I disagree but
Someone is ... like people buy NEW bikes, phones etc.
I recently bought one (ford kuga) after not having a car for 7 or 8 years. Bought it because my arthritis was causing me issues having to stand up on public transport during rush hour, and being reasonably tall when my knee is inflamed getting into a normal 4 door hatchback was a nightmare.
It is only a 1.5l 2 wheel drive, I expect that many performance oriented golfs and skodas that are so popular on here have worst economy.
I think being higher gives a slightly better view of the road itself. Extreme example (just to illustrate the point) would be switching between bumper cam and above the car view on a computer game.
Don't disagree with that either but its even more noticeable going along narrow country roads from my experience.
Also as someone said there is the "See over the car in front" arms race.. but I can see another van on a single track country road from my van better than I can see a low car etc.
Back when I did company car'ing, I had a Mokka for a day and had to drive a Quashqai from the Midlands to Castleford - regular drive was a Golf, and the SUVs felt simply horrible by comparion.
Now I no longer company car, we've got an Adtra estate for long journeys and big loads, and just use Mrs Pondo's Colt for nipping about.
All I really care about now is adaptive cruise control. Start car, switch that on and turn it off when I arrive at the destination a few hours later.
Just amazing invention – driving is just so much more relaxed.
Seconded. Astra doesn't even have cruise - the Golf's ACC was absolutely the best of many good things about it.
Not that I disagree but
Someone is … like people buy NEW bikes, phones etc.
A fair point, but a different scale. My last new bike was £35/month for 2 years and cost pretty much nothing on top of that. A Qashqai costs 10x than on PCP, another ~£200 a month to run, and after however many years you don't own it. Just look what £500 (plus the tax not paid) a month does to your pension!
Whereas a bike bought in your 20's might add 6 months to your retirement date, but you'll have more fun on it in your 20's than 70's.
I have an SUV that would take issue with that!
The amount of times coming from Ireland at 2am in the morning that I've been stuck behind a wallowing SUV through the North Wales country roads makes me glad I'm in my estate.
We've got a long saloon and a SUV. It's actually slightly shorter and lighter than my Saloon. Some aren't bigger than a medium car. The plus points, is they are easier to get in and out of - made a big difference to me when I broke my spine and the few years recovery - much easier getting in and out of MrsF's car than my saloon. Fuel efficiency slightly better in SUV (smaller engine). It also copes better with the pot holed roads than my saloon, with the suspension being that bit beefier and slightly softer.
Down side, doesn't do twisty A roads anything like as well as my saloon, nor is it as good a motorway cruiser.
More practical than my car - been a god send emptying MIL's house after she passed away.
Some SUV's are massive though, really no need for them.
We also have a city car that get's used for shop runs, or a city commute when I'm not on the bike - absolutely ideal for the job.
Had two Honda CRVs, before that a Mazda 6 estate and an Audi A6 estate. Next car will be an estate. They are easier to get in and out (unless you are the dog into the cage), view is better. drive is agricultural, the Haldex 4x4 works, adaptive cruise control is great. The extra height allowed two bikes in the back without taking the wheels off. Newer versions are lower and that's not now possible. Appliance rather than aspiration. But I've been pleased with my two over the past 17 years (they do seem to last!)
The (very limited) off road ability and better clearance massively help getting to places and park before getting the bike out.
They are better when high ground clearance is required.
When is this required? VW Caddy owner here, Golf Estate before that. 20+ years of driving into fields for camping and events, down dirt tracks and car parks for mtb or digging. Ground clearance has never been an issue.
What’s weird is, how small some of them are. An Evoque is actually only 13cm taller than a Fiesta.
No a 2022 Evoque is 20cm taller than a 2022 Fiesta, it's also substantially more massive. The total volume occupied by an Evoque is 12.5m^3. A Fiesta is 8.1m^3 . A RR Evoque is 1800kg, a Fiesta is 1200kg. CD for the Evoque is 0.32, the Fiesta, 0.3, but the frontal area of the Evoque is more than DOUBLE the Fiesta, so the Fiesta's overall drag count is 40% that of the Evoque at higher speeds.
50% more material, 50% more volume, 50% more CCs needed to heft it around. 20-30% greater fuel consumption. The evoque will be a nicer place to spend time, but you're paying for that as is everyone else no matter if or what they drive. YOUR consumption affects everyone and that goes beyond cars, but is very notable IN cars.
The amount of times coming from Ireland at 2am in the morning that I’ve been stuck behind a wallowing SUV through the North Wales country roads makes me glad I’m in my estate.
I'm sure you're right but, as I said, not all SUVs are the same.
Don’t disagree with that either but its even more noticeable going along narrow country roads from my experience.
Also as someone said there is the “See over the car in front” arms race.. but I can see another van on a single track country road from my van better than I can see a low car etc.
100% agree with that.
I have a BMW ix3 ( its a SAV not SUV don't you know) and a van. The view is so much better up there and you get to see so much more. Its just ...better.
IMO , it certainly outweighs the "what happens if you hit a pedestrian / bike / small vehicle" argument , as you are more likely to see them in the first place, and being a "bigger" vehicle, they should be able to see you easier themselves.
Probably jinx myself now, but i have managed not to hit any pedestrians / cycles in the last 30 odd years because...
a) I don't drive like a w****r
b) I tend to look all around as I drive and try to anticipate what others are going to do.
We had a Renault Kadjar after we had a Ford Focus estate.
The Focus was better in every single way.
Most SUV-type cars, as others have said, are just the default medium-large family car now, thing is they are a bit rubbish at it.
They have less usable space than an estate and fuel economy is worse.
Your choice now seems to be small car/hatchback, SUV-lite, Massive **** Panzer (Range Rover), Van or Pick Up.
Could be worse though...
Though at least you can fit stuff in them...
https://www.theonion.com/conscientious-suv-shopper-just-wants-something-that-wil-1844930331
Think this explains it.
Interesting thread.
An anecdote.. I was running down a stretch of road not far from me to join a bridleway. As I was running I saw a RR (not up to to speed on the models but it was the biggest one) it had parked blocking the entrance to the Bridleway and as I ran towards the car I saw an elderly couple, both sitting in the rear door-wells pulling on their walking boots, both rear doors wide open and one door dangerously into the road. It occurred to me they had bought a car that was so large that the boot was almost useless to them and given its height versus theirs. (I didnt get my tape measure out but got a sense of their height as I passed, both looked 70 years plus)
I have an estate, practical for sitting on, sheltering under and getting stuff in and out of, including mucky spaniels.
Its just …better.
For you. But to be "better" for you, it costs everyone else. Vehicles should be taxed on mass, not emissions. that way you cover the embedded energy as well as the continual cost for moving it around. It also then covers EVs, some of which are equally inefficient.
That’s true of any car other than the absolute smallest eg Picanto size thing…
I think the issue is that people won't buy a Picanto, they'll Picanyonero, a Picanto with 6" more bodywork, flared wheel arches and 205/50-18 wheels rather than 185/75-15. A baiscly pointless decision that means over the car's life it'll consistently be getting 5-10mpg less than it could have done.
50mpg is still a gallon more than not driving 50 miles at all, but it's still pointlessly more fuel than doing it at 60mpg.
100% agree with that.
IMO , it certainly outweighs the “what happens if you hit a pedestrian / bike / small vehicle” argument , as you are more likely to see them in the first place, and being a “bigger” vehicle, they should be able to see you easier themselves.
Probably jinx myself now, but i have managed not to hit any pedestrians / cycles in the last 30 odd years because…a) I don’t drive like a w****r
b) I tend to look all around as I drive and try to anticipate what others are going to do.
Lets put big spikes on the front of all cars, those pesky pedestrians will take notice then!
The amount of times coming from Ireland at 2am in the morning that I’ve been stuck behind a wallowing SUV through the North Wales country roads makes me glad I’m in my estate.
Any SUV is more than capable of travelling at a reasonable speed for any road. If you are 'stuck' behind a car, it is down to the driver of the other car – they would doubtless be doing similar if they were in an estate, a hot hatch or whatever. Perhaps you need to learn a little more patience?
Very old CRV here. Pretty much only car I've ever owned and we were practically gifted it so it will continue to make financial sense for many years to come I think.
I enjoy driving it, particularly on twisty roads, but have nothing to compare to.
As a low back pain sufferer I dread having to get into my father-in-law's Mercedes something-or-other estate, which also feels ridiculously impractical and rattly over Perthshire's finest roads.
As for the height and AWD, it has already proven itself this year when we parked in Glencoe for a short walk on the drive home. Watched another (sportier) CRV rip off some trim on a pothole we had just gingerly rolled through, and other 'conventional' cars wheels pinning on the 1" of snow that was lying. Granted we've got mixed condition tyres.
So a massive win for comfort and practicality. That said, we've agreed to try and replace with something smaller when the time comes, I do have a conscience about the piss-poor mileage 🙄
Parked between a Q7 and a Dodge RAM Merkin pickup thing at the supermarket and boy, did our VW Up Gti look small.
I think it would fit inside the Q7 and most likely in the bed of the pickup.
What twists my melon is how small the luggage space is in some externally massive SUV's. Estates look like they have heaps more booty for junk in the trunk.
that way you cover the embedded energy as well as the continual cost for moving it around
that'll be covered by the additional fuel duty you have paid
@BillOddie I accidentally rented an Escalade / Suburban in Vancouver for a road trip we did a few years ago. To my total astonishment over about 1500 miles it and its 5.7Litre barn-door-engineered V8 was more economical (27uk mpg) than our T5 and not that far behind the kodiaq. It was assembled in that uniquely American superficial way and somewhat dangerous should you attempt to negotiate any sort of corner. Oddly endearing though.
I have a Subaru Forrester which falls firmly into the SUV category. I love it, the extra height does give a feeling of being more aware as to whats coming up on the road or being able to see what other drivers are doing ahead.
I also have a Model S which is super low down in comparison and whilst it's a beautiful drive, i do miss that extra visibility.
The extra few inches comes in handy too when on bad roads or double track. I don't like the sound of the underside of my car scraping on the floor!
Give one you like the look of a try, you never know you may be turned.
IMO , it certainly outweighs the “what happens if you hit a pedestrian / bike / small vehicle” argument , as you are more likely to see them in the first place, and being a “bigger” vehicle, they should be able to see you easier themselves.
Probably jinx myself now, but i have managed not to hit any pedestrians / cycles in the last 30 odd years because…a) I don’t drive like a w****r
b) I tend to look all around as I drive and try to anticipate what others are going to do.
What we need to do is even up the odds a bit by offering all pedestrians and cyclists an AR15 and about 10 hours training at age 17 on how to use a water pistol, upon which an allowance to purge anyone in a car whether the car driver consented to playing the game or not. Seems entirely proportionate to me given that's basically the same power the current system gives people in cars.
On balance I'd definitely prefer an estate (although I'm not sure how my old Volvo 940 would stack up from a size/environmental impact point of view). I've also had a Forester (a great car) in the past that was actually smaller than the 940...
At the moment it is surprisingly difficult to actually order hybrid estates so I've ended up ordering a Mazda CX60 as a company car. I'm feeling a bit conflicted but for balance we also have a 20 year old Cooper S. I'll also endeavour not to drive like a ****.
I was always wary of SUVs and 4x4s, but last month our car of 11 years died, and we were left hunting a new car ASAP and no transport to go to big places. Our choice was either a Fiesta, or a Kuga, in our budget and available then, we went Kuga as we do family trips to Scotland, Devon and elsewhere.
Have to say i love the Kuga now, i have a duff hip, to be replaced soon, right knee is also knackered, so the elevated position is nice, and i have it all the way down as well. It's not as big as it looks when driving, plus it's easy to drive, went from a VW Golf GTD to this and enjoying it more!
Yes, they are everywhere, yes there are loads who can't drive properly, but that's not an SUV thing, that's a driver thing, every day i see people in picanto's, micra's, etc who just have no clue about spacial awareness for their vehicle, no real confidence at junctions/roundabouts/etc, and quite a few i'd say maybe shouldn't be driving anymore.
that’ll be covered by the additional fuel duty you have paid
Not if that car is only used for short journeys. There should be a penalty for ownership/resource use regardless of how far it moves.
I’d like to see one that could pull my 2.5 ton boat
Let's be honest here very few if any SUVs will have the towing capacity to do that legally (especially when you add a trailer)! And the ones that do probably aren't even SUV's anyway.
There should be a penalty for ownership/resource use regardless of how far it moves.
Yes this definitely.
Not if that car is only used for short journeys. There should be a penalty for ownership/resource use regardless of how far it moves.
you mean like VED / "Road Tax"?
One thing my mum mentioned when they got an SUV, night driving is way better.
It's pretty uncomfortable in my old 944 and our old Astra, with all the laser beams that cars seem to have for headlights now.
The work transit connect is better. The transit custom I had was great. Almost never blinded by daft headlamps.