At one point (just before the Lloyd Insurance problems) the most high stakes sport in the country. The residents of East Bergholt lost in excess of £70m due to the phrase, "fancy a round of golf?"
It's also the sport of choice for most of the major construction companies from my experience of site visits in the late 2000's.
So here goes, I am am a member of a golf course near Kidderminster with an annual fee of £900 for a seven day membership.
My clubs and trolley cost £1700 a year ago and Will last me for many years to come.
Amongst our group of twenty or so regular players there are two plumbers.a sparky ,two retired carpenters,a retired train driver and various guys working normal jobs.
Plus a retired bank manager.
My Banshee rune cost £4200 a few years ago.
I love watching golf
The Masters is the best sport event on TV and I'm a football season ticket holder who loves Mountain biking and Cricket
Golf doesn't have to be expensive in the UK, I had a lodger years ago who played all the time, he was a minicab driver. FIL, who is far from cash rich, was president of his local club and he doesn't live off much more than the state pension (own house though). Blind in one eye and handicap of 6.
So here goes, I am am a member of a golf course near Kidderminster with an annual fee of £900 for a seven day membership.
My clubs and trolley cost £1700 a year ago and Will last me for many years to come.
Amongst our group of twenty or so regular players there are two plumbers.a sparky ,two retired carpenters,a retired train driver and various guys working normal jobs.
Plus a retired bank manager.
My Banshee rune cost £4200 a few years ago.
You don't obviously expect to win any friends here by coming up with blindingly obvious facts do you?
The residents of East Bergholt lost in excess of £70m due to the phrase, “fancy a round of golf?”
What is the backstory to this?
Do wealthy (and therefore you’d imagine financially astute) golfist fans change their carefully worked out banking, auditing or investment choices based on the bank or audit company sponsoring a golfering competition? Even if you go there and get invited into a corporate tent and have a warm glass of fizz.
I expect it does have an effect in the latter case. Its all about building personal relationships and now strip clubs are frowned on got to go for sport instead.
In theory it gets used for internal staff motivation as well with various freebies being made available to staff. I say in theory cos where I work supports some golf but I dont know anyone who pays attention. Was the case with the football and I think tennis before.
thanks sargey
as i suspected, golf can be more or less expensive to participate in than biking and who am i to judge people who want to have a walk with a bit of skill based competitive interest, in some nice surroundings with a pint at the end.
Don't know much about golf, but if one of these oil states somehow created a Morzine/Whistler level bike park and ran it in the winter, I'd be there in a heartbeat.
Got to love how many golfers 'big' themselves up. Worked with many, and constant prattling on about handicap - yeh played for years but still on a 15.
Only one guy I worked with didn't say much about his golf, other than he played at weekend. He didn't go on about he hit this shot, that etc etc. Out of curiosity, I asked him what his handicap was....
'Scratch' he said - I was like, wow so you are rather good then !
Most golfers are full of hot air, bit like e-MTBers....... 🙂
My old golf membership was about 1100 a year, via monthly direct debit, there were cheaper courses nearby, and of course more expensive. The reality is that 90% of golf courses are fighting for survival, they're owned by members or whatever and staying afloat year by year, counting on members to help where possible. The guys i played with helped out now and again at the club, and got stuff for it, beer tokens or discount, hence why golf clubs like having plasterers, joiners, sparkies, etc as members!
There are a lot of very exclusive golf clubs around London and elsewhere that tend to set their joining fees very high (some in the £100k's!), that's basically to have an exclusive club like any other, this day and age a lot of footballers and so on are part of these.
Then there are the vanity sponsorships – Inios – how much money is he investing across a bunch of sports? How can there possibly be a return there for a brand there very few will consciously associate with a purchasing choice; but perhaps he just does not care.
Look at all those green sports he's sponsoring, look how green Inios are!
If you dig enough you'll find a link in most areas, be it Saudi/UAE/Qatar/etc, or Russia, or China, we all use stuff and enjoy stuff that is basically paid for, sponsored or supported by 'bad' money.
Again, with the whole bad press around LIV, i feel it's being pushed more by the PGA and golf in the wider context, rather than a real concern about Saudi money, i think the PGA have had it all their own way over the years, and this worries them.
Not sure why people are comparing golf to football. Footballers play golf to relax after playing football, that's what me and my mates did. Its not a physically taxing game just frustrating.
Don’t know much about golf, but if one of these oil states somehow created a Morzine/Whistler level bike park and ran it in the winter, I’d be there in a heartbeat.
Can't think of anywhere worse TBH.
All the tackiness and lack of authenticity of Vegas but without the vices to see you through, no ta.
In advertising alone, there’s probably no other non-Olympic sport with that sort of reach.
I think it's a a bit more specific than that.
1 in 3 people might be exposed to golf in some way shape or form. But I'd put money on that 1/3 also being very heavily corelated with the top 1/3 of the wealth. And the level of interest probably carries on that correlation. Which is why it's so valuable to advertisers.
Compare and contrast 3 fairly "rich mans" sports that require an upfront investment in equipment.
Sailing (dinghy) - club championship sponsored by, ermmm, no one. National championships by some component supplier for a few hundred quid spread across the fleet and some stickers.
Cycling - club championships sponsored by Miche (because they sponsor the whole SE crit and CX series's, and therefore by defacto the clubs rounds of those).
Golf - anything more upmarket than the council pitch and putt seems to be sponsored by the local BMW/Audi/Porche dealership.
All the tackiness and lack of authenticity of Vegas but without the vices to see you through, no ta.
Thats kind of the point, although I know it isn't for every biker.
People have carved bike trails (and ski pistes) out of mountainsides, and erected big metal lifts in a few carefully controlled valleys. Its hardly Alpinism.
But as I describe my near-annual alps holiday to non-biking aquaintances, its like Disneyland, except you control the rides yourself; and the other customers are fitter and more attractive.
Not sure about your numbers here.
Yeah, you've got a point re: Joshua's wealth. I was more referring to less well paid boxers/MMA athletes who could retire a few fights early with a big Saudi payday, thus preserving their long term health.
Its not a physically taxing game just frustrating.
I think if you’re doing it all day, most days be it playing or practising, with repetitive swings using the same muscle groups over and over, it probably is a bit more than you’re making out.
Btw, for anyone who listens to podcasts, Freakonomics’ latest episode on Sportswashing has just dropped. It discusses this subject a lot. Haven’t quite finished it, but it’s a good listen so far.
old people tend to have more disposable income than any other group. They often have all their significant costs in life covered, and so a large amount of money and time to spend. They are an advertisers wet dream.
young people tend to have very little disposable income. They have low paid jobs, high living costs (ie paying out rent monthly), and so advertisers find them easy to attract, but only to low-cost items
just look at the progression on costs of bikes to observe this. looking at canyon, A great BMX (median age, what, 15?) is about a grand (ok I had to substitute their dirt jump bike cos they don't make bmxs), a great DH bike (median age 25?) is maybe £6k, a good trail bike is maybe (35 year old) £7.5k, and a top end road bike (median age 45?) is £11k.
There's not more technology in a road bike than a dh bike, its just the clients are richer. Golf and road riding both attract cash-rich, time-rich customers and so companies with large marketing budgets selling fancy things (boats, cars, watches) are happy to advertise there, bringing large pots of prize money in.
As both a keen cyclist and a keen golfer I can confirm that I spend far far more on cycling kit than golf equipment. It’s not even comparable
I have top end clubs, basically the best you can get. They are worth a third of my best bike.
And how many of us only have one bike..
A lot of golf clubs are struggling as they are suffering from an ageing membership on a sport where popularity peaked in the 70s. Many club members are too old/unhealthy to play - they just treat it as a social club.
A lot of member owned clubs now realise that they own some nice real estate and are selling up to developers and pocketing £100k’s each.
Also, with changes to corporate hospitality tax rules, a lot of businesses no longer spend money schmoozing clients on golf-courses. I once looked after the sales and marketing budget at a corporate that ran to £1m/yr and my first job was to take £100k out of it. It was quite easy, the 2 two corporate golf days got ditched - I had quite a lively debate with one of the directors because I asked him to show the ROI on the spend and how it contributed to the PWin for multi-million pound contacts when the key decision-makers rarely attended…
That said corporate biking days are increasingly popular where clients get escorted around a nice course with a lengthy lunch stop.
Not sure why there is so much wittering on about what it costs to be a pleb in golf vs what it costs to be a pleb in cycling etc. You are just a consumer. A non event. And a participant.
The OP's question was about the money sloshing around in the professional sport.
Btw, for anyone who listens to podcasts, Freakonomics’ latest episode on Sportswashing has just dropped. It discusses this subject a lot. Haven’t quite finished it, but it’s a good listen so far.
ta - very good so far.
Interesting statistic in the first couple of minutes - all of the annual revenue in professional sport globally is less than the annual revenue made by a single pharmaceutical company, Johnson & Johnson. Kind of puts it into perspective. I bet some of J&Js brightest and most innovative chemists would like salaries 1/100th of their sporting equivalents.
I bet some of J&Js brightest and most innovative chemists would like salaries 1/100th of their sporting equivalents.
I'm all for adequately rewarding STEM careers.
But remember that athletes are effectively the product being sold, not the employee.
I think if you’re doing it all day, most days be it playing or practising, with repetitive swings using the same muscle groups over and over, it probably is a bit more than you’re making out.
Same with cycling though. There's an entry point into both sports where you can pick up the equipment and go out with your mates without necessarily having to have committed 10+ hours a week to it for a number of years to get the fitness and skills to make it competitively.
You could pick up a set of clubs and make it through a round of golf without breaking a sweat.
And away from the traditional bridleway riding (or even the longer trail center routes), the latest demographic in cycling seems to be an influx of displaced Enduro/adventure/green lane motorbike riders, mid-40's, e-bike, thinks "BMI is a poor indicator of individuals health" pushing up / doing laps of the DH bits.
@tpbiker - Free Member
As both a keen cyclist and a keen golfer I can confirm that I spend far far more on cycling kit than golf equipment. It’s not even comparable
I have top end clubs, basically the best you can get. They are worth a third of my best bike.
And how many of us only have one bike..
I think this says more about the disposable income of golfers even after buying clubs than it does the average cyclist
I have top end clubs, basically the best you can get. They are worth a third of my best bike.
A quick google tells me that a set is typically limited to 14 clubs, and they seem to top out at between 4-600 quid each, what the hell do you have for a "best bike"?
And talking of doing business on the golf course, i reckon most of the top golf clubs have Serious Fraud Office microphones all over the place these days...
Can anyone tell me why there is so much money in golf??
Because wealthy business people will pay a fortune to swing a nice shaft at a well trimmed fairway.
A quick google tells me that a set is typically limited to 14 clubs, and they seem to top out at between 4-600 quid each, what the hell do you have for a “best bike”?
I wish it cost that much, you can have 14 clubs in your bag, you can have 10 irons at about £100 each, driver, 3 wood and hybrid at around 500 quid and then the putter. If you're buying top notch kit, those 14 clubs will be over 2k, normal level, you can probably wheel and deal and get them for 1500.
It's never cheap to get into but for most once they've got a set, it's what they use for a long time, especially irons, 3 woods, etc, folk change drivers and putters now and again, but not a huge amount.
folk change drivers and putters now and again, but not a huge amount.
The folk I work with are never done changing clubs, getting fitted for new ones, buying new grips, GPS aids, trolleys and, unsurprisingly, a never ending stream of balls.
It's exactly the same consumerist keeping up with the Jones' mentality as cycling.
And FWIW, not all of us are rocking £6k+ bikes, I doubt the value of all of mine combined even comes close to that.
you've missed out the £110k to buy a nice merc sl to nip to the club and back. thats at least £50k more than a VW T6 to fit in with the trail centre crew
If you’re buying top notch kit, those 14 clubs will be over 2k
More like 5-6k if you're looking at
"basically the best you can get."
What is the backstory to this?
One of the syndicate heads lived in the village and in the days of unlimited liability he sold the business as no risk and guaranteed profits for all the members off the back of rounds of golf at Fynn Valley or Stoke by Nayland.
Come the inevitable problems due to weather and asbestos claims many genteel types lost their houses, land, horses, art and share portfolios.
unsurprisingly, a never ending stream of balls.
I'm not sure I've ever bought a single golf ball - I generally find 2 x whatever I lose whilst looking for the one I hit!
My name is cb and I play golf!
There, admitted it. Love the game and the challenge of it, more love the walk in the countryside.
No time for check trousers or cocks, they both exist at every golf club, those things are not infectious - its a choice!
Re the LIV series, if I were one of those golfers - say Westwood at 50 years old being offered 50M just to tune up and a guarenteed 640k to play 8 events, I'd be all over it.
If anyone can point to a guilt free country I might change my opinion. UK - we haven't been angels have we - slavery, India, took our time giving women the vote, locking non bombers up for decades, Bloody Sunday, kids still in poverty even now...
USA - just double everything above.
The Saudis need t ochange but that ain't going to happen by boycotting them.
Interesting statistic in the first couple of minutes – all of the annual revenue in professional sport globally is less than the annual revenue made by a single pharmaceutical company, Johnson & Johnson.
Blew me away too, did that one @convert. 😀
EDIT: as did the one about total NFL being less than the revenue of some Painting & Decorating chain I’d never heard of.
Which of course (to me anyway), begs the question, why are Saudis, Qataris, Russians, etc. so keen to spend their money funding these events.
On another note, have you got to the bit about Thai restaurants in the U.S. yet? I had no idea! 😂
On another note, have you got to the bit about Thai restaurants in the U.S. yet? I had no idea!
Yes! I need to google though......felt a touch tinfoil hat to take as legit without a check!
Not quite as simple as the interviewee made out, but seems he wasn’t BSing.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.vice.com/amp/en/article/paxadz/the-surprising-reason-that-there-are-so-many-thai-restaurants-in-america
I like golf. I pay less than £400 for my annual green fees (in Scotland). I probably play alone 75% of the time and it’s a few hours of glorious solitude away from work, house, kids etc. I enjoy the challenge of it, because it isn’t easy. I haven’t bought kit for some time now, and built my set up over a few years by taking advantage of discounted prices for last years models, but having just added it up it would cost about £3k to replace like for like, which I’m surprised at.
To answer the question....No! I love golf (sometimes!)and have been a member of my Club since 1976, but have been a footballer, runner, mtber,skier along the way too. There is definitely a resurgence in the sport around here (Surrey) probably due to all those people WFH, sneaking off early to play. (We have a big waiting list)
I do enjoy watching some golf on TV, but a lot of it just makes me fall asleep. I really can't see how they anticipate getting a decent return on their money...or any for that matter.
quick google tells me that a set is typically limited to 14 clubs, and they seem to top out at between 4-600 quid each, what the hell do you have for a “best bike”?
Not even close
1200 for all my irons
500 quid for a driver
250 for a putter
300 for a 3 wood
350 for 2 wedges
200 for a hybrid
My best bike is an sworks tarmac
How many top end mountain bikes can you get for £2800 quid?!
Not even close
1200 for all my irons
500 quid for a driver
250 for a putter
300 for a 3 wood
350 for 2 wedges
200 for a hybrid
Wow....this is what I paid for mine:
1000 for all my irons
190 quid for a driver
90 for a putter
80 for a 3 wood Ex demo
180 for 2 wedges
120 for a hybrid (over ten years ago)
Forgot I started this thread! Agree the overall cost to play might be one issue, but I was referring to the money in the pro game. $350 million just for two players to turn up, this being separate to the prize money. This makes even the top end of football wages look tiny. Presumably many other players being given appearance fees higher than the prize money. Rory McIlroy has also said he had taken appearance fees higher than the prize money for previous tournaments.
Even if some people like it and it gets on TV it’s hard to see how it would generate the amounts of money they’re paying people to play. Quite apart from the moral issues.
I don’t doubt that it requires skill, although the amount of middle aged overweight professionals out there makes me think that fitness is not necessarily required.
It's a lot of money for a hitty stick.