Never had a van before and it's looking like vehicle change time. If we get a van we are currently thinking on the small side, second hand and VW just because I assume it will be easier to sell on, £40-60k, only needs 2 seats.
Is automatic ok ?
Any engines to avoid?
Save the VW Tax and go for something else, they still sell as they are far cheaper.
£40-60k on a second hand VW, or brand new with a different brand?!
You probably want to spend more time thinking about a layout that works. Our friends have a VW, but they have an oven and hob in there - i.e. a big unit that runs down the whole of one side with storage cupboards. The hob only gets used for a brew, the oven never used as they don't want to cook in there. They do lose quite a bit of bed space, but the pop top is only used for 'height', not sleeping. Most of our other friends have vans with beds of various configurations (airbed, mattress etc). We have a non VW that is a people carrier, that has a bed system from Van Gear under the parcel shelf in the boot that folds out over the top of the three rear seats. We remove the two middle seats and table when doing this as we then have storage under.
We went with the seven seater as the two single middle seats are lighter than trying to remove a double (which needs two people) - I can configure the van myself. All the seats run on a rail full length, so can be in any position.
We use an awning for 'stuff' - cooking outside etc. We also have a big tent for longer stays.
I went with an automatic - 8 speed and 180 bhp - very powerful, especially when loaded with a weeks camping gear, paddle boards and bikes. Love it, the auto is great, so easy to drive, even in traffic.
We've a Transporter - Bilbo's Komba. Bilbo's do some different layouts to many, pop tops that open sideways which is so much better than front or rear opening, and a couple of models (our Komba) that's designed for outdoory folk. We have side layout, but narrow, so have a full size RIB bed that's a lot more comfortable than RnR beds we tried. We also went LWB and high top. It's so much more spacious both to move around and stand up, twice as much storage as pop top, warmer, drier, quieter.
We were also amazed at the quality differences. Our Bilbo's has rock solid furniture, underslung waste and proper 40L onboard water, twin gas connectors, lovely wiring that's all marked for maintenance etc.
Ours was always a camper, direct from factory with a VW fitted Reimo roof. This means it's got very low miles and really well looked after - we bought it at 9.5 years old and it had 22k, 2.5 years later we have it up at 43k. Underneath had never seen a salty road - it was like new.
My advice is rent one. And go see a dealer with a few layout and brand options to neb at.
I personally would not get drawn into VW unless you find a good one. IMO the Transporter dash is poor, the reliability is not great, and the scene tax huge. The Traffic/Vivaro/Primastar is a better base van to sit in and drive.
Also, have a slush fund for bills. Our Alternator went a d was £1300...
BILBOS.COM Never had a van before and it's looking like vehicle change time. If we get a van we are currently thinking on the small side, second hand and VW just because I assume it will be easier to sell on, £40-60k, only needs 2 seats.
Is automatic ok ?
Any engines to avoid?
I've been thinking the same and am possibly looking to lease short term to see if the van life is for me. There's a cracking lease deal on a base model campervan on auto express at the minute. A VW California with a pull out kitchen and pop up roof for £315 per month, 4k deposit.
Might be an option for you?
Test drive a few models to see what layout works for you...parents spent a small fortune on a brand new camper - was onced once and then sat for 7 months...layout wasn't right - looked great in showroom but actually using it turned out to be not so great.
Just been sold and moved on...
Just generally, T5 conversion here, think about how you want to use the van carefully, as soon as you start juggling bikes and people, things get messy unless you're okay with leaving your bikes outside the van when parked up, which is fine in some places, less wonderful in others. For non-bike use, it's easier. We have a mahoosive Vango inflatable awning that we use for more spacious living if we're more than overnighting.
We've just added a dog crate to the equation and are looking at converting it again into a day van with a pop-top bed that'll allow us to carry bikes and dog and have more open load space generally along with the washing/cooking/storage gubbins.
I find it hard to get excited about van performance tbh, we have some godawful sluggish engine, but it just keeps going and sits happily on the motorway/autoroute at legal speeds and has survived alpine passes etc no problem. I'm sure there's a reasonable 'VW scene tax' argument to be had, but as I didn't buy the thing in the first place - it came as a package deal with the missus - I don't really care.
What BWD said, a T5/6 sized van suddenly feels very small when you're sleeping two people in it and have bikes in there too. A fixed bed with bike storage underneath is a game changer! But will need a bigger van. Shouldn't be an issue with that budget though
You need to look at as many as possible. The RIB beds have to be the answer if you want to slide the seats forwards and use the rear for bikes etc.
As mentioned above, I went for a car/van with seats - Vivaro Life Elite 2.0 180 bhp. It's just so flexible as we have a big tent for long stays. Down side, folding out bed - it's quite high up, so not alot of head room, but that's negated with a Decathlon Aprenaz Base tent (only £120) - we sit in that anyway, pop the loo in there, and can keep it warm with a parabolic gas heater. We have an Anker Solix with Solar and have literally come back from 5 days off grid - using what 'solar' we had (3 days sunny intervals) to run an electric cool box and charge phones. Came back with 10% left. Hazy sunshine will give you 60w of solar, which runs the fridge. Direct sun, upto 80w, so gives a little back to the battery. We usually do 1-3 nights with the van. Any more then it's the tent, or did anyone say hotels - just did 10 days using the van to carry bikes and stuff to various hotels over six nights, and 4 nights in a static caravan.
There is never a right/wrong answer to these vans, just something that suits you. Friends have a mix of vans, some really fancy newer VW's, paint jobs, big wheels etc, but it's an airbed in the back. Others full conversion, but older, then others with just a makeshift platform. Various stages of insulation, but they aren't camping in winter - April onwards.
My wife would have preferred a motorhome, but I'd not be able to use it to get to work occasionally, and they are height restricted to getting into many beach front car parks. Some motorhomes are amazing, not too big, have a garage etc etc.. No good as a second vehicle - it's a holiday machine.
Just go looking. PS check the specs of any converted van as you don't want a wheezy engine version - 150 bhp or more I'd say.
Do you camp at all?
How will you store the bikes?
If you like camping but do not like the damp mornings eating breakfast get a van to use as your base while camping and have it next to the tent.
That was our solution. We eat relax and spend evenings in the van if the weather is crap.
We can still store the bikes inside the van and have a camper set up inside the van. Fridge,cooker basin ( not really used). Nice seat/bed ,led lights etc etc.
Two front seats helps so the bikes can fit between them and into the rear area for on the road or at night.
We very occasionally use the bed but normally put the tent up and use the van as a space to relax in and can then go out for the day and put stuff in the tent.
The whole camper van thing is like choosing bike tyres etc etc. Things are always a compromise.
Do you want to park in a supermarket car park?
Do you want the bikes inside?
Do you want a bigger space inside ?
Will you really use it beside the road or on a campsite with hook up etc
We use sites almost entirely.
Forestry sites only allow camping with toilet so not suitable for our set up.
It really is very personal and individual and you always tend to keep thinking of this and that and maybe get something else....but all part of the fun.
Good luck well worth it.
Consider what your using it for.
Fixed bed with a garage is great. But you pay through the nose for a ferry.
I want to spend more time on the islands and going to Europe so I have just gone from a 7.4m long 2.8 tall van to a 5.6m x2.4m
That means no fixed bed (unless your short and fit sidewYs)
Infact exactly what aggs says. I've a 5man inflatable awning for the side of the van this time round. Not ideal but with 2 small children we find our selves almost exclusively on sites.
If your just dipping your toe in and unsure I suggest steering away from self built and getting a factory conversion. It'll always sell quicker if you don't like it
Some self built vans can be a bit 'iffy'. Browse autotrader and go look at some. Very tricky choice. I was looking for a year then a curveball was sent in via going to a motorhome show, but stuck to the plan in the end. I can have the two bikes hidden in my boot (wheels off) - seat's slid forward) or in the middle of the van bolted to fork mounts (amazon/ebay ZTTO ones) that I mount to the seat rails.
There is never a perfect option though - so bear this in mind.
You do need somewhere to sit 'outside' even if raining - so decent roll out awning, or a freestanding 'something' - same applies if in a tent - we've now got a really good solution for our bell tent - bit rubbish sitting inside if raining, so the tarp we bought last year attaches just fine with what was 'clingon' tent/tarp grabbers - now called 'Holdon' clips. They give you a tarp hook point where there isn't one - so easy to clip to attachment points on our bell tent.
You do need somewhere to sit 'outside' even if raining
Why's that then ? I used to just open the windows on each side and enjoy the sofa in the van .
Perhaps it's different if you just have car seats to sit on they are a bit bollocks.
The roll out awning I put on the last van was one of my worst purchases . Hardly ever used it.
Interesting thread. Hurtling towards retirement, I’ve had thoughts of investing in a camper. As a trial, we have hired one for three nights this summer to see how it all stacks up*. Maybe hire different ones for a season and see what layout works best for you?
*actually for Goodwood FoS, so it’s really more a base camp to kip and cook in.
What BWD said, a T5/6 sized van suddenly feels very small when you're sleeping two people in it and have bikes in there too. A fixed bed with bike storage underneath is a game changer! But will need a bigger van. Shouldn't be an issue with that budget though
Eldest_oab had SWB Transit with double bed (albeit with corner cut off) and three bike space below... Two fitted in with a small amount of footsie..
. As a trial, we have hired one for three nights this summer to see how it all stacks up*. Maybe hire different ones for a season and see what layout works best for you?
Best thing we did was rent one for 4 days.
Very quickly worked out that SWB and pop top was really not what we wanted. But being able to drive down wee lanes, get on ferries at reasonable cost and park in car parks was what we wanted....so LWB high top.
I will add to my post above, our tent is quite small by choice as its very quick to put up and cosy in winter.
I was going to remove the bed in the camper as it does make the van a bit smaller if you want to move stuff when not camping ,but the sofa is so damn comfortable and nice to sit on. My thought was to use camping chairs inside.
Maybe on another project if I sell on this van.
Amother tip is if it's a DIY type build by the previous owner make sure the rear seat/ bed has the correct certification if it carries passengers . It's so it can cope with an emergency stop etc and not launch passengers if in an accident etc
And means you can sell it on as well!
We have a T6.1 - 150bhp DSG auto.
I love it, Mrs STR isn't as keen, she finds it cramped. I usually sleep in the roof to give her more room in bed. If going down the VW route definitely go LWB and avoid the twin turbo 200bhp engines, as thet eat themselves
We generally use it for one or two nights away, she won't go anywhere in it for a week
I have never owned a camper van but have hired them numerous times my advice is to think very carefully about the compromises you are prepared to make and how often you will use it. If its only a week or two a year would you be better off hiring one?
Small people carrier or small van based ones are often cramped inside, don't have an onboard loo and you have to pack the bed away every day. Large coachbuilts have a loo and permanent bed but are shit to drive on tiny roads and in towns. Coachbuilts tend to have much better kitchen facilities as well
I would hire a couple of different ones first to try out
Another one firmly in the 'think very carefully before you choose' camp.
Vans are brilliant, I wouldn't be without one now, but for many people the classic T5/T6 sized vehicle when configured as a camper is massively compromised and holds zero appeal to me.
If we are 'camping' as a family - we camp, in a tent. If I'm roughing it for an overnighter with the bike, I can just sleep in the back of my 'van with seats' (currently a Ford Tourneo).
Everyone has different priorities so there is no right answer, but for me the vast majority of 'California' style and configuration campers (like the above) are useless for biking, because for a starter you cannot fit bikes inside them - bikes inside is basically the main reason for a larger vehicle over a car, in my world!
I would 100% use a larger crafter/sprinter style vehicle with fixed bed and garage, but then thats not a vehicle you are likely to use as an everyday car, you need to determine whether this is what you want.
As for the assumption that VW is the only option... 🤔
I drive my MWB sprinter daily, its not that much bigger than a lwb t5/6 but we live in the sticks and dont go in any multistorey car parks. Fixed double bed and loads of room underneath for bikes, hob and sink, shower at the back door and room for two to sit and dine inside. Previously had a t4, would be hard to go back to something that size
Reiterating much of the above and especially the point of trying before buying.
My experience was our 2004 VW T5 LWB, full conversion when it was 6 years old. Poptop, RIB seat/bed, kitchen etc from these folk. Best quality conversions I've seen - there are conversions and there are conversions. Great when it was just Mrs a11y, me and the bikes, but too cramped with kids. I personally couldn't live with a larger vehicle for daily driving.
Everyone's different but I'd not go the same route again. Great size of vehicle for 2 folk. Poptop and rear seat/bed of some sort plus some furniture and fridge, but I'd not bother with cooking facilities or plumbed water. I'd definitely want a usable toilet - ideally a shower too but could live with something off the tailgate worst case. There's alternatives to the most common layout too, something like Jerba's Sanna conversion (without kitchen) looks good to me.
Biggest downside to a T5/T6-sized vehicle is you're unlikely to get bikes easily inside at same time as living and sleeping, which is a straight no-go for me now.
Future me is hoping for a return to this size of campervan post-kids...
Length wise perhaps but 24-27mpg Vs 40-45mpg is a fair jump if you need to daily it.
I did daily my iveco for a bit between vehicles but I wouldn't choose to.
Oh, and choose your size:
Agree with @badlywireddog we have a LWB T6 bought as a delivery van and I converted it (other than the pop top)
I did a temp install of power and a bed so we could use it before we decided the final setup. Glad I did as it changed quite a lot.
Absolutely love it and used it more than we thought we would. Mrs Surfer retired so selling to buy something bigger. If I could I would keep it. Invested so much time in converting and had so many great times in it reluctant to sell.
I do think LWB for the win...
I went from a SWB low roof Mk6 Transit to a LWB medium roof Mk7.
My current one is, on the outside three feet longer and ten inches taller than the old one. It does 2-3mpg less, although that is a combination not only of size but also of having another 40hp and one more gear.
Anyway, it's not much bigger on the outside, but because of the space taken up by the engine and the cab seats etc the space inside the back has doubled, it's a massive difference for something which isn't that much bigger externally
Thanks all. So much to ponder. The one thing I have learnt from pondering in the past is that every choice is a compromise.
But the clear message is try a few rentals and look more. We have hired a t6 base a few years ago, standard arrangement. One simple decision, we definitely decided an oven was a total waste of space.
After that I am stumped. Oh and I said VW at the start just to try and simplify the responses, knowing full well about the VW tax.
We always chuckle at VW van owners when they pull up and have to unpack the entire van in order to find the spoon they left somewhere. Meanwhile we store our bikes inside and have a king size bed, and a big ginger dog. 40 - 60k is so far away from what we spent it's a speck in the distance.
**Unpopular opinion alert**
We had a T5 for 14 years, Amdro Angel conversion (which they don't do any more, which is a shame, at it's superb).
Whenever we talked about replacing/selling it, and if we did, what would replace it with, the answer was pretty much always 'a caravan'.*
Don't get me wrong, I loved having the van and the trips we did in it. We lived in it for six months travelling around Europe. If you're actually living the 'van life' and want to park up and sleep in the middle of nowhere, then a van is great. If, however, you're going to be staying on campsites, maybe for a week or more's holiday, a caravan just makes more sense.
They're roomier, they're cheaper, they're designed much better for 'living in'. Yes, you have to tow it, but big deal. And yes, you have to store it, but your storage costs will be more than outweighed by the £40k or more you'll be saving on an 'equivalently specced' (which in reality is inferiorly specced') campervan
*We sold the van last year as it was getting a bit long on the tooth and we'd acquired a dog that was too big to fit in it. We were going around the houses about whether to replace it and what with when the dog died...
I toyed with the idea of a caravan and a conventional estate, as a normal estate car would be better than my van for maybe 80% of my driving, but the idea was dismissed when thinking of the little tiny highland/Lakeland/alpine roads, switchbacks, hairpins etc which are tricky in the van, noway would I attempt them while towing! Even things like reversing down land rover tracks would be unpleasant with one. But I agree, much better once you are actually at the place you want to be.
The van is brilliant but it's my only vehicle. If I could afford a second, smaller vehicle I probably would, but I use the bike for short local journeys or ones where I'm not carrying much, and then van isn't that much bigger than a decent estate in terms of parking etc.
I just don't like the layout of the typical camper. If you're sitting inside then you're either facing the front or rear of the vehicle. Our converted Trafic has a pull out bed/double sofa running lengthwise so you can sit on it and look out the side door. That also means that I can carry a couple of bikes easily. If I'm using it solo then I can still sleep with a bike inside the van (if we're away as a couple I rearely take a bike anyway).
A bigger vehicle would be better when I'm actually using it as a camper but it's also used regularly for just getting about and parking larger vans is a bit of a pain.
We always chuckle at VW van owners when they pull up and have to unpack the entire van in order to find the spoon they left somewhere.
In the interests of balance.
As a non van owner...
Large vans are way more entertaining to watch when it comes to manoeuvring and getting themselves stuck.
And way more annoying when you arrive in a small carpark to find lwb and motorhomes are taking up double spaces. In Bridge of tilt this weekend there were 6 large vans and motorhomes taking up 12 spaces (length wise not just parking over the lines).
I'd ban anything that can't fit in a single car space from entering anywhere 🤣
We hired a Ducato conversion (knaus?) from Road surfer for 10 days, driving from Brussels to Switzerland and back. 2 adults, 1 infant and 1 large dog.
The idea was to try before buying. We didn't buy one;
- Bathroom too small to be useful
- Definitely need an awning
- Didnt cook inside
- Diesel heater was fantastic; campsite hookups were not reliable
- Pop top and fixed beds were fantastic; though pop top was the only option for 6'3" me.
If I were to go buy one, I wouldn't bother with a loo nor shower. I'd be very hesitant about a kitchenette too; a fridge and BBQ would be enough.
I'd also avoid Stellantis like the plague. VW gets a bad rep above, but I've had the pleasure of working on all the vans mentioned above and I'd still get the VW/Man models. Body shells seem well out together with better dealer support.
Pop top and fixed beds were fantastic; though pop top was the only option for 6'3" me.
Our high top was specified by previous owner who was 6'5".... I can stand tall in every part of our van. It's amazing how much more spacious it feels and how much more storage space it creates.
If I were to go buy one, I wouldn't bother with a loo nor shower.
We decided the same. We are 99% on a campsite, and who needs OH pinching one off a few mm through a plastic wall or sat in the middle of the cabin, only for someone to have to empty it in the morning...just walk to the loo block.
Didnt cook inside
Can I enquire why? We always cook, and cook some decent meals even if somewhat simple ones.
Don't get me wrong, I loved having the van and the trips we did in it. We lived in it for six months travelling around Europe. If you're actually living the 'van life' and want to park up and sleep in the middle of nowhere, then a van is great. If, however, you're going to be staying on campsites, maybe for a week or more's holiday, a caravan just makes more sense.
Our compromise is a huge, add-on Vango 'awning', basically a tent that sits alongside the van for use on campsites, which allows you to drive away for short, local trips, but gives you way more living / spannering / socialising space than just using a van or with a smaller awning. You get to use the van for cooking etc, plus comfy seating, but the rest is basically camping I guess.
The biggest downside I can see with a caravan, or a large motorhome, is storing the thing when you're not using it unless you have a pretty substantial drive. That and it being a caravan. When we first moved in here, one of the neighbours asked me if we were 'caravan people', I suspect the look of abject horror on my face is the main reason he hasn't spoken to us since.
Totally true that caravans have a reputation, totally undeserved nowadays. They're a very different use case to a campervan/motorhome though.
We moved from a too-small-for-family-of-4 VW T5 camper to a caravan for a few years and it was spot-on for campsite stays. But, storage was a nightmare: secure, but expensive, inconvenient access times (8:30-16:00 winter, 8:30-18:00 summer, except Sundays 10:00-16:00 - WTF!), and awkward access to a space unless you had a motor mover killed it for us.
I'd still want a van I could sleep in occasionally (nothing fancy) but a small caravan appeals but only if I could store at home which I currently can't.
We fully embraced the stereotype and the resulting piss-taking: Hobby caravan towed by a Transit. Perfect setup though as bikes lived out of sight in back of the Transit.
We cook in ours quite alot, it's really handy for a brew on days out as well, esp in winter with the diesel heater on after a long wet ride.. The sink is not used much. We use the facilities in the camp site or save it for washing at home.
If you use the van alot you cannot really eat out all the time. We can cook outside on portable stuff as well but tend to use the twin hob more often.
Our fridge could be better, it's like a fridge you get in a hotel room. Quite small really and not that practical. If I did it again I would maybe get one of the fridge/freezer box things that keep colder when switched off. But they are top opening so location is then then issue.
I can see the attractions of caravans esp if you use them alot.
I did grin to myself when we rode across France and saw all the caravans driven miles from the UK ferry ports pitched up next to the rental ones.
Our in-laws loved caravaning in the UK so I cannot knock it.
It's a shame the rental prices of campervans are so expensive.
We do chat and may experiment/ experience a bigger set up. But you cannot beat nipping into the supermarket for a quick easy shop or get down that narrow road the sat nav took you!
With regards the loo - we already had one from camping. First night sleeping in 'the van' we'd parked near to a toilet block, so shouldn't have been a problem. Except:-
MrsF wandered off to the loo as sea mist descended. Torch wasn't much use, and she promptly tripped on a ditch at the side of the camp's footpath - went over on her ankle. Ended up going home via A&E the next day. Usual incompetence, no, not broken... 10 days later letter to say broken (this was just months after me breaking my pelvis and hip that I was told not broken). That scuppered our plans a bit, so we now take the loo in the awning, just in case.
£40-60k on a second hand VW, or brand new with a different brand?!
I too, think the VW tax is silly, but that is terrible advice 🤣 (imho)
New vehicles depreciate the instant theyre registered.
New vehicles still suffer from shake down problems (admitedly, under warranty)
30k miles is about right to shake the gremlins out, and halved its price.
We didn't really cook in the van; we used the local restaurants or a BBQ or ate cold stuff generally.
The pop top roof was lovely though. Fantastic to open the zips to see the mountains and glaciers outside.
30k miles is about right to shake the gremlins out, and halved its price.
That's where we bought.
I was offered 15% more than we paid two years/20k miles later.
I'm not sure that anything other than a decent Transporter would have held it's value as well. Scene tax isn't that bad with such residuals.
