[Closed] Camper Van choices - help me out!

Also be careful a StartLine might not have Aircon, which would be a deal breaker for me.

Right thanks for all the advice everyone!

We went to look at the two we'd shortlisted again this morning and I had a drive of them both - the 102ps TrendLine looks superb with a really funky paintjob and interior but it was a bit of a pig to drive - suspension was a bit stiff, seats weren't comfy, no power - didn't like it. The 140ps HighLine was a miles better drive, much more comfy seats (they looked exactly the same, but of course the original seats under the nice new upholstery were very different), aircon, etc - so I could see the benefits of the extra £'s....but.....

Based on all the advice here and a chat with Mrs Velocipede, we've decided not to buy - a few long weekend hires are in the offing (just looking at one now) and we'll see if we could actually live with one - and take it from there - we can afford one but making that leap and spending an amount of money on one thing that we've never done in our lives before (houses excepted) just feels like a massive leap and we might regret it, so....we'll give it a try and then look out for the price slump next year if we like it - if there's no slump, we can just buy one anyway!

Actually - any recommendations for a hire outfit? Somewhere in the Cheshire area?? Ta

Cheshire VW Campers is run by my best friends sister-in-law. No idea what spec of van they're hiring out, but can vouch 100% that they're totally legit!

I’m in Braemar at the moment and was chatting to a guy who had dropped 65k on a VW van which he now says is going up for sale ASAP as his wife and kids hate the experience, prior to this year they did hotel holidays and just don’t like the camping experience. I suspect there will be a bit of that ! And for context, they are at the Fife Arms every night 😂

Oof, now I don't feel so bad about the expensive, barely used tent in my garage.

FWIW, I bought my campervan for £2k mid pandemic and have spent about £1500 on it.
It's got a huge bed, loads of storage space, bike rack, solar panels, night heater, pumped hot water, a full kitchen and a wetroom with hot shower. Only 5 metres long too.

Pics in here:

View this post on Instagram

Doubt it's as nice to drive as a VW but probably nicer to actually camp in.

It also has a certain charm - get lots of folk coming to speak to you about it and take pics.

Just to say you can get something that works without spending extortionate amounts of money.
Depreciation on this is probably negative, I imagine it's worth a bit more than I spent.

Any comments on depreciation on these things?

Bought a brand new California 4 years ago. Looking at today’s second hand prices I reckon I could sell for £3-4K more than I paid for it. Obviously covid has boosted values but even before that struck I think I could of pretty much got my money back.

Edit:-Actually just noticed the local VW van center has one exactly the same year/spec as mine with 50% more miles £10K more than I paid for mine new. Are camper vans the new Bitcoin?

I think hiring a couple of different types is a good call. All camper vans are compromises. I like a permanent bed in them - but that means a bigger van which is harder to drive on small roads, in town and to park. A smaller van is better to drive - but folding down a bed at night become a pain - and also if one of you wants to go the bed the other has nowhere to sit.

On board loos are a must to me - but showers are useless - a trickle of luke warm water. Big fridge is great - but takes up a lot of space and so on

You just have to decide which compromises work for you

We hired a T30 conversion and found it was cramped with 2 adults, a girl and a dog. We had an awning but that was mostly to store our junk and blocked the view. I think the key to successful campervanning is to minimise everything and be very organised. I expect it'll take a few trips with your own van and gear to get it working the way you want.

Is it worth getting an oven / grill? We had one in ours and it took up a lot of cupboard space for something that may be used once in a blue moon. And cupbaords need packing with thought, we went round a few corners only to hear crockery moving about.

We found we used the campsite facilities for washing up as the sink was tiny and we had to empty the waste bucket fairly frequently (only 10 litre). I expect that even with a motorhome, you'd continue to use the site facilities where available as the toilet / shower / sink will all be fairly compact so would only be used when off site?

Yes but the chap who spent £65k will probably sell it for 70 Lols…!

we’ll give it a try and then look out for the price slump next year if we like it – if there’s no slump, we can just buy one anyway!

My prediction is it will be the year after! People start to travel abroad next year but either keep the van just in case of late restrictions or kidding themselves on they'll maybe use if for some weekends too, and then when the next years' bills come in - insurance, storage, servicing they start to question if its worth it... price will be seasonal too - so better chance of a bargain in Oct/Nov when the seller is not planning to use it for 6 months and might be facing a bill for storage than in April/May when they could get a couple of bank holiday weekends in themselves.

So end of Oct 2023 for a cheap(er) van! This will be helped if summer 2023 is dreadful weather.

I've been driving a caddy maxi for the past 12 months and done trips to Scotland a few times with 2 of us in the van. It's cramped and a royal pain in the arse but we're dirtbags and its better than a bivi or a tent. We even managed 8 days in it with 2 bikes somehow.

My suggestion would 100% be a crafter sized conversion if I had 40k to spend (not 5k that I had when I bought the caddy) and I wasn't daily driving it and had some space to store the thing.

A few home truths.

Camper values will be effected once covid is over and holidays are back on the table. Yes your previous deals have all been amazing. They havent really. You have got really strong trade in against your new vehicle which costs 30% more. Not such a brilliant deal and just keeps residuals high. But you havent done that post covid..... Stocks are low on new builds. Everyone wants one at the moment and they are riding the crest of supply and demand. But like houses, the value isnt important unless you sell and dont replace. A 30% increase in trade in is worthless if the replacement went up 30%.

Then we come to post covid values..i dont think it will be too bad but there is going to be a glut of second hand campers come onto the market. All those husbands who are buying them as fashion statements (STW is an absolute barometer for anything fashionable - cars, pizza ovens, bikes, campers) are going to come to 2022/2023 and have a wife absolutely desperate to drop £3-5k on a holiday mabe even 2 abroad. Anything, just get them on the plane. But hubby is paying £5-600 per month finance on his T6. He has a 10year finance plan and he cant afford to drop another 5-600 per month on holidays abroad. Lets stick to the van.....but then wife tells him some home truths. I bloody hate the van!!!! Its crampt. It rains everywhere we go. I cant be done with sleeping in glorified car parks. I cant even cook a decent meal in it. If i try to get dressed in it i end up in pain. I prefer a car. I want a hot shower. IT WAS YOU THAT WANTED A CAMPER.

I always wanted a camper. I got one and loved every second of it. EVERY SINGLE TRIP IN IT WAS A COMPROMISE. It ticked every box for me but my wife never came with me. I didnt owe a penny on it but i recently got rid because i dont want to be part of the camper scene. It is full of knob heads tbh who will take a dump in plain view of families, park anywhere, entitled to everything and take take take. I have friends who have gotten onto the bandwagon, but if i was asked my advice i would say keep your money and hire one from time to time just to quench the thirst.

A home truth.

You have the wrong wife.

@velocipede again - a bit of feedback on what you felt on the vans you tested. Seats do not vary by model (as in spec model trendline/highline etc), suspension the same but that does vary by max vehicle weight t28/30/32 etc. When empty t32 can feel quite firm but with a full conversion on stock suspension most are fine as there is enough weight in.
Based on what you say I'd guess maybe the first van had different springs or coilovers on, it's a common thing to do but ride suffers. Seats on both would be identical when new unless they've been changed for ones from other vehicles.
Power wise depends a little on what you are used to, 102 is better on fuel than 140/150 but doesn't have the 6th gear so a little more noise on the motorway. 102 can be remapped if you want more power, there's a big saving compared to 140/150 as they are so much rarer.
Testing is definitely a good plan, as I say fire me any questions if it helps.
Steve

Basically whatever you go for it will always be a compromise of some sort so you’ve just got to decide what’s important for you and recognise that, and you’ll be golden..

>> This.

My thoughts from owning a Ford Transit Custom (SWB) for the last year, converted to a camper for the last 3 months in case it helps... (there are two of us, riding a variety of bikes and doing a variety of other activities)... We wanted a single vehicle that would act as a day van for biking as well as an occasional camper.

Firstly, we have used it WAY more than I anticipated. Hands down best thing we ever did. If you live an outdoor lifestyle, it’s a game changer. Easy transport for day rides, easy to get going on early rides by kipping out the night before, easy to camp over the weekend with as you have somewhere to hide from the British weather.

Transit Custom vs. VW – an easy choice for us: the equivalent VW would have cost an extra 10k and the trim inside the Custom is really nice. It drives really well and the cab is very comfy. I’ve not heard any compelling argument that would make the additional cost for a VW worthwhile.

Wheelbase - We went for a SWB van as it is our only vehicle and we don’t have parking at home. I initially thought we would regret this (I wanted a bike “garage” at the back of the van to keep the bikes separate) but I have since totally reconsidered and would now buy a SWB again tomorrow. Reasons: it’s easy to drive, easy to park, not having a garage allows for rear windows and the all important view/light, the bikes fit straight in without taking the wheels off, there is enough room to pull the bed out with the bikes inside (with a blanket over them).

Engine – Ours is 130bhp Euro 6 – we get around 38mpg, down from 40mpg when it was an empty van. If you’re buying a van and investing money in having it converted, I would definitely recommend at least Euro 6 – clean air zones are only going one way.

Camper conversion – we opted for a partial conversion: pull out bench/bed (with storage underneath), leisure battery with lights and USB, swivel seats, pop top, shelf, heater, wind out awning. We left out the cooker, sink, fridge etc. on the basis that we wouldn’t be using them all the time. When we need those facilities, we take a decent cool box, a camping stove and a collapsible sink (read: plastic box) and we keep water containers under the bench. This means we can camp in comfort but have maximum room in the van for day to day use. Would def recommend swivel seats as this allows the cab space to become usable (you sit back into the cab) and makes a huge difference to how much room there is inside. Pop top with bed boards is also brilliant for storing crates etc. and still having room to walk round. Heater is also really good to make camping out a proper year round thing or just to dry out sodden 5 10s after a lot of puddles. Hard wearing, wipe clean floors are a must!

Wind out awning – really good addition for biking. If the weather is crap, you can sit underneath it, let the bikes drip off, get changed without getting muddy water all over your van etc. If the weather is good, it provides a bit of shade and space to dry swimming kit 😊

This set up works perfectly for our needs. It feels spacious as both a day van and a camper. If we’re doing a weekend, we generally carry bikes & kit, swimming stuff, hiking stuff, chairs, coolbox, stove, food etc. and there are always ways of finding the right storage set up so you still have room to move round. If it was bouncing down all weekend, we’d probably have to be more selective with kit. We’ve slept in it probably 15-20 nights, including a four day weekend and are just about to head off for a week so I’ll report back with any long term issues 😉

helen.and.hills the primary arguments for the vw over the transit are residuals are much higher on the vw's, they rust less and are more reliable. Engines in the euro 6 transits are very unreliable, I know a mechanic at a local Ford dealer who does nothing but replace the engines under warranty on transits at the moment.
Not saying they are for everyone and the lower transit price can be appealing but that's the reasons for the vw premium.

We were sooooo close to dropping £40k on one yesterday.....I'm so glad we didn't or I'd feel a bit crap reading one or two of the posts above - the "home truths" one especially from @TheLittlestHobo -

We'll take our time and have a think - I must admit that although we have the cash, I've never spent that much on anything other than a house so I'm not sure how I'd actually feel handing the cash over - I'll have to be "certain" before I do that so let's see how we go with a few hires 1st!!

Thanks @Tom-B for your recommendation 👍

I know a mechanic at a local Ford dealer who does nothing but replace the engines under warranty on transits at the moment

My Leyland DAF is more reliable than any of my pals' VWs lol

Nothing to contribute but just want to state that I'm loving this thread. There is loads of great opinions and experiences! 👌

We finally took the plunge and placed an order on a new VW from Hillside leisure last weekend but will have to wait 10 months for it. I have been dreaming of a camper for 30 years and have been glued to Autotrader and the many you tube campervan videos for what seems like an eternity. We are in our mid 50's and if we don't do it now, we never will. We camp several times every year and love camping life but have been put off in recent years because we always seem to pick windy weeks and have suffered too many broken poles and nights holding the tent down. I bet many people buying vans now have never been to a camp site in their lives and will 'not get it'. Originally, we were hoping to spend 20 - 25K but even pre covid this at best would buy you an ex-builder's van with a basic new conversion. Hillside leisure have interested me for some time because they have a great reputation, and their entry level offering is probably the cheapest brand-new VW out there and funnily enough has only increased by a couple of grand over the past few years. Yes, the van we have ordered is a Startline base vehicle and has the entry level engine, wheel trims and no coloured coded bumpers. These things do not bother us at all but what we have ordered has cost just over 40k for a brand-new vehicle with a 3-year warranty, with a quality heater and pop top, a RIB bed that we really wanted and a wind out awning. We are under no illusion that it is small, but we are prepared for this and as a previous poster has said it will be very cosy when cold and wet but amazing to sit under the awning on good days. We aim to keep it forever and not just for a few years and have already planned dozens of tours including our dream to take it to Italy with our tiny Yorkie terrier. The only negative is that I will have to sell my beloved 19-year-old Berlingo that I have owned since new. This has been the best car that I have ever owned and being Gold and not to everybody's taste it gets called the 'ugliest car in the car park'. If the VW is half as good as my 'Gold Goddess I will be a happy man.

Any ideas if statics and tourers have sky rocketed too?

Pacman1 amazing post! Hope you have many happy adventures in it which is after all what it’s all about!! 😀👍

I'm surprised no one has mentioned a Mazda bongo yet!

We got ours in 2017. It was a fresh import, very tidy and with very low miles and was quite cheap compared to an over priced VW. It's small but has a wide pull out bed, fridge, sink/twin hob, spinning front passenger seat and now solar panel. It also has an enormous side opening roof that makes it feel bigger - I can stand on the bed with plenty of space above me. It's light a airy with lots of windows - It's a car not a converted van. It's very nice to drive. We (2) use it for weekend trips, week long holidays in UK and have taken it round Europe for two weeks including a Czech wedding. With careful packing we can take walking gear, wetsuits/PFDs, iSUPs (2), walking gear, gas BBQ and proper sized blocks. The best bit is probably the bongo wave!

The only real downside is that it's a petrol and not great on fuel. But as we only really drive it when we're going on holiday or for a nice day out we're never in a hurry so don't really care 🙂

It was bought on a whim and we've loved every minute of it.

I'm sure there are some bongo hire companies and it's also likely that the cost of hire would be less than a VW.

“Any ideas if statics and tourers have sky rocketed too?”

We sold our motorhome & bought a tourer earlier this year. Got strong money for the m’home and it sold nice and quickly.
We found with tourers that it wasn’t as much of a case of prices being high, although they have risen a bit as there not being much stock around. It’s availability of vans that’s the issue.

After looking for a second hand van with little success we put a deposit down on a brand new one. Few weeks later a nearly new one (same as the new one we’d ordered) came up for sale literally round the corner from us. We were the third to call, viewed an hour later and agreed to buy. In the 24 hours between that and us picking it up, the seller reckoned he could have sold it dozens more times and for more money.

Called the dealer to cancel the new order and they weren’t remotely bothered as they said they had a waiting list for that model and would have it resold in a phone call!

Pacman1 amazing post! Hope you have many happy adventures in it which is after all what it’s all about!! 😀👍

This x 1000

Superb, you earned it fella, hope you have loads of awesome times!.

Bongos are very nice but they are really small and the older ones have significant coolant problems. If you've got a good one and are happy then that's great.

One theme on this thread is..."I would prefer x, y & z". It's a very subjective thing.  One thing which is true for everyone is that if you're over 6ft then 99% of transverse beds are too short which does limit the choice. Lengthways beds take up a lot of room so the van layout is a compromise on a smaller van.

The advice I gave my friend was to work out her priorities before buying. Unless the weather is horrific you spend most of your time sleeping in it, then driving. Much less little time is spent cooking, reading, quaffing ale/wine etc. We're all different but having stuff you don't need just increases costs and takes up room.

If you haven’t done campervanning before, then it might be worth hiring for a week to see how you get on with the size / space limitations. See a lot of VW sized campers so crammed to the gills with ‘stuff’ that they need to be emptied before you can get in the back.

If you’re contemplating taking bikes, think about how happy you’d be with leaving them outside the van overnight.

I think the above is very good advice.

From someone who’s owned a converted LWB Transit for 5 years, I’d definitely recommend hiring before you buy. From previous experience, I’d also recommend going for a van that you can the secure the bikes inside while you’re asleep or leaving it unattended.

It might work our cheaper for you to hire two or three times and wait until the popularity bubble bursts - which I’m certain it will when overseas flights/holidays restart. The prices at the moment are absolutely crazy, and I think people are taking the opportunity to get rid of se that would be normally be very difficult to sell. (Flogging the se with Leaking poptops, windows etc while the weathers dry). I reckon there’ll be some billy bargains around in a couple of years.

Oh, and if you do go for a Transit, be aware that it will rust like a 1970’s Lancia😁

My Leyland DAF is more reliable than any of my pals’ VWs lol

I heartily concur, they're very reliable and every home should have one.

PS mine's for sale 😀
Shameless stealth ad

What's the gpm like on that?

I heard that some camper conversion companies have over 12 month waiting lists. Which in my eyes just shows that even the conversion companies don't think the current boom is sustainable else they'd actively expand to meet demand.

Good luck with your hunt but I'd be looking at a motor home if it was me.

I heard that some camper conversion companies have over 12 month waiting lists. Which in my eyes just shows that even the conversion companies don’t think the current boom is sustainable else they’d actively expand to meet demand.

There's a huge demand for vans due to the explosion in home delivery during lockdown(s) so the converters are competing against couriers for the base vehicles and you simply can't source conversion parts (windows, appliances, tanks, etc.) quickly enough at the moment.

Makes me glad that I built our van conversion in 2018! (Ours is based on a MWB (L2) Citroen Relay pics)

I still don't really fancy a full-on (coach built) motorhome though:

https://www.cornwalllive.com/news/cornwall-news/motorhome-stuck-narrow-cornish-lane-5607336

As someone said above: everything about a camper / motorhome is a compromise. Everyone will have a their own set of priorities which will feed into the final choice.

PS mine’s for sale

That is so awesome. Did you build it?

@zilog6128 no his job is to be a mechanic at a Ford dealership, servicing, repairs etc. The euro 6 engine is so problematic that all he does is change engines. It's not about numbers of vans as numbers haven't changed much in terms of vans sold but they have in terms of vans needing new engines.

That photo of the narrow Cornish lane reminds me of our trip to Cornwall a couple of years ago. Our van is a Citroen Relay van conversion so not overwide but we headed off down a simillar lane and had to listen to the awful sound of branches scraping the sides of the van for two miles. Turning back or reversing was not an option.

Turning back or reversing was not an option.

said every Cornish tourist ever…

I hired one about four years ago, a Cali, and hated it. Too small, too compromised, too expensive. Despite that, I coveted one every year since for reasons I can’t really explain.

This year I bought a converted T6. We’ve only been away in it a handful of times so far: I’m working Saturdays this year, and the kids have to be back at school on a Monday - opportunities to get away have been limited. We’ve wild camped and overnighted on a site in equal measure so far - but partly because the sites are so hard to get booked on this year if you don’t/can’t plan ahead. The kids (8 and 11) love it and I’m learning to deal with claustrophobia…

I underestimated how much it would add value as day van. Get back from a ride or walk in the hills, stick a coffee on, somewhere to get changed and eat some lunch or dinner before heading home; or heading to the coast for fish and chips in the rain with somewhere to sit/read/play cards/whatever. I’m liking it a lot for that kind of thing and it’s definitely extended days out in a way a car doesn’t.

The other van I looked at was a larger, Ducato based, 4 berth panel van. It had the huge advantage of a toilet on board (and a crappy shower) and room to stand without popping the roof. I haven’t ruled one out in the future but I’m not sure I’d use a larger panel van for a day trip without an overnight, bit too big, too thirsty and not as easy to find somewhere to park.

I just need to learn to live with the rattles, squeaks and creaks. They make me want to set it on fire.