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or you're playing mediocre opposition.
Remind me who Dan's last try was against?
Point is a stand off is the sum of parts; Sum of JW'S game were better than any British or Irish 10 of the pro era.
wrecker - MemberBetter than any scottish fly half as well
FTFY
Posted 1 hour ago # Report-Post
John Rutherford was better than JW. But you like to display a lack of knowledge on rugby threads, so carry on.
Laud him for what he is.
What he is is the second highest international points scorer of all time, second only to Carter who is up there as the possibly the best ever. In a career racked with injury. He also got it done under the greatest pressure possible on a rugby field (extra time drop goal, last kick of the game, in Australia, with the wrong foot!). He also did it with the utmost class and professionalism, an example to any young player.
Personally I think that qualifies him to be considered great.
He has never been the most exciting fly half or the best runner, he's not the best ever in his position, but nobody ever claimed he was.
Interested to see who's selected for 6N as Flood is definately not on form at the moment
Still think he's first choice though Frankers. There's not exactly a wealth of choice.
Sum of JW'S game were better than any British or Irish 10 of the pro era.
This.
duckman - MemberPoint is a stand off is the sum of parts; Sum of JW'S game were better than any British or Irish 10 of the pro era.
Hard to argue with.
People are always claiming thishe's not the best ever in his position, but nobody ever claimed he was.
Scamper - Member
TJ - would you argue.....
....endlessly 🙄
People are always claiming this
No, [i]you'd[/i] like to think they are, but most people don't claim he was the best ever.
Ah - but I am right. Again 🙂
Said by me:
he's not the best ever in his position, but nobody ever claimed he was.
by TJ:
People are always claiming this
Go on then, who?
Everyone I've ever spoken to about it acknowledges that he is not the best ever fly half, even the most one-eyed England fan can see that Dan Carter is a more complete and exciting player. Wilkinson is still a great of the game though.
Greenwood tells a cracking story about the final. The Aussies(Flatley) kicked a difficult goal to level and force extra time. Greenwood was 10m away and applauded the kick "Well done, some "bollards" mate." kind of thing. He then goes on to say how the Aussie players were screaming abuse at JW as he put England ahead in extra time. Kind of contrasts for me everything about that England side with their team now. They were winners in every single way; They were hard enough to skate on,and demanded/forced respect, yet gave respect back to oppos. I like that.
Sum of JW'S game were better than any British or Irish 10 of the pro era.
...at his best. Would there have been so much talking him down if we'd been discussing him 8 years ago? The trouble is, as close as he's got a few times, he never quite managed to reach that peak again.
Ah - but I am right. Again
Sorry TJ - you can't use that one, you don't live in Tower Hamlets.
TJ is [s]People are[/s] always claiming [s]this[/s] things which aren't true
FTFY - I'm assuming you can't actually quote anybody who claims JW was the best ever.
aracer - MemberAs for how good he was, well at his best in 2003 he was the best in the world.
I seem to remember him being disappointing in the earlier games in the 2003RWC and his reputation being built on the last couple of games. In fact the more I think about it, England struggled against Wales until they brought Mike Catt off the bench. While JW kicked the points he couldn't 'create' enough to beat Wales.
Stuey01 - MemberLaud him for what he is.
What he is is the second highest international points scorer of all time, second only to Carter who is up there as the possibly the best ever.
And Neil Jenkins in third. Shows how silly it is rely on dodgy stats!
I seem to remember him being disappointing in the earlier games in the 2003RWC and his reputation being built on the last couple of games.
I wasn't just talking about the RWC - he went into that with quite a lot of hype given his previous form that year.
So he played well in the 6N that year. Fair enough.
Can we add to that? 😆
Can we add to that?
He was supposed to be rugby's answer to David Beckham?
don simon - MemberCan we add to that?
He was supposed to be rugby's answer to David Beckham?
Posted 12 minutes ago # Report-Post
An image that the tabloids tried to foist on him.
not too shabby.
John Rutherford was better than JW. But you like to display a lack of knowledge on rugby threads, so carry on.
Go on, define "better". Show us your knowledge.
So he played well in the 6N that year. Fair enough.Can we add to that?
Not too shabby in the summer tour down-under either.
[i]lack of [s]knowledge[/s] [b]opinions that agree with mine[/b] on rugby threads[/i]
FIFY
Go on, define "better". Show us your knowledge.
Nah, I will just carry on smiling at your posts.Page two and you haven't screamed racist yet,despite some people on here not rating him,well done.
Page two and you haven't screamed racist yet
What on earth are you talking about and why are you smiling? Strange man.
Sad to see him retire but I suppose he knows best. One of the england players I much admire and comes across as a genuine guy. Not an all time great as he is lauded but a very good international fly half. To be honest I dont rate him that much higher than Steven Jones, he's just played in better teams. I think Rhodri Morgan, former First Minister for Wales got it right (plus it allows me to mention my fav player 😆 ) "For sheer talent Henson has more in his little finger than Jonny Wilkinson has in his whole body. However, the problem is that for sheer application, Jonny Wilkinson has had more in his little finger than Gavin has had in his whole body.
To be honest I dont rate him that much higher than Steven Jones
Oh Jesus, I was waiting for this. Thanks, you've given me a laugh.
However, the problem is that for sheer application, Jonny Wilkinson has had more in his little finger than Gavin has had in his whole body.
We've been through all this before when talking about how Henson has wasted his life. "Greats" of the modern game (and I ain't coming down off my particular fence) have to have application and talent - large measures of either.
Talent is a myth, bit like Henson really!
DD why not he had the luxury of playing behind a juggernaut of a pack that for 5 years just rolled over everyone. Would of liked to see him living off scraps and being under pressure the whole time.
Jonny does seem to be a class act a massivley dedicated professional to the point of mental illness and a solid gold roll model to aspiring kids but he had limitations in his game.
He'll be remembered for one drop kick. The winning drop kick in a world cup is a good thing to be remembered for.
I hope he finds some other way of inspiring people. Luc Alphand went on the win the Dakar, Noah became a pop star, Maradona a TV star... .
DD why not he had the luxury of playing behind a juggernaut of a pack that for 5 years just rolled over everyone. Would of liked to see him living off scraps and being under pressure the whole time.
Dan Carter living off scraps and under pressure the whole time wouldn't look as great as he is either. I can't think of anyone who would. That's the thing about rugby...and it's why these debates rage on and on - a brilliant player can sometimes be lost in a poor side and never even shine. Or a really talented player in a decent enough side can end up on the scrapheap because he's an immature tosser - like Henson.
Talent is a myth? You'll have to explain that one to me.
Oops
it is a theory, no such thing as talent as it is learnt, the 10,000 hour rule etc
Loads of good books about it.
henson, good player he maybe, not sure he will ever reach greatness though.
guys, Wilkinson did work for aaaaages behind a mediocre pack - a big chunk of his career was spent at Newcastle. At that time their pack would have been rolled over by under 11's sides.
He still ran the game, still kicked his goals. But no, he didn't set up loads of awesome tries.
But good god, to compare Wilko with Henson is laughable. We're saying Wilkinson is limited because he is remembered for his kicking and that drop goal? Henson is remembered for 2 tackles (which would now be illegal - Warburton anyone?) and a couple of enormous kicks. Oh, and because he was a nob.
I still dont understand bear. Never mind.
I knew i shouldnt have mentioned henson, gets the idiotss all excited,oh well thats why i love him so.
Those that cannot see how talented he is are either stupid or know nothing about rugby.
Maybe thats it, talent is a myth, but only in the england midfield.
Oh and neither tackle on tait were illegal, ones on the tight head prop and the tindle alike both of whoms name i forget were illegal though.
I would love Henson to have been great, really would. But the fact is, he wasn't. Great talent, could well have turned out to be a great player, but he never delivered on his promise.
Those that cannot see how talented he is are either stupid or know nothing about rugby.
LOLz.
For most, he'll just be a bit of a sad loser. He'll never go anywhere. Thankfully. Anyone like him deserves bugger all.
Wasnt that the point of the quote i posted? Henson is clearly a nobber who has wasted his talent but two grand slams and a lions test player aint bad.
Darcy dont agree with this wilkinson love. He was shite for most of the world cup win, and bloody awful in nz as a lion. Steven jones ould run a backline better and is better tactically. Wilko the better goal kicker. Both proved at this world cup they are past it however. Wilko was never the undisputed best ten in the world.
JW was a model professional, an exceptional straight up tackler and a very good kicker.
As an attacking threat and backline 'conductor' he was limited at best.
The English media & fans probably over rated him (in general)
As a professional rugby player (who to my mind moved the definition of that up a notch) he will be missed.
Taz i completely agree.
Darcey more grand slams than BOD!!! LOL
Well said Taz
Yeah, LOL(z).
We both know who'll be remembered as the better player though. Anyway, what is it with the welsh contingent? You're struggling to keep it on topic.
Wilkinson love? Not guilty.
Jonny was ace player...as other have mentioned very "professional" in a good way too. hated him when he was playing against us..hated Jonno too, but they were both superb players. Mr Wilko been a bit unlucky with injuries and that's taken the gloss of his career last few years which is a shame but I wish him well.
Wilko was never the undisputed best ten in the world.
Apart from maybe when he was IRB player of the year in 2003? Or maybe in 2001 when he was the only No 10 in the nominations?
No, Larkham was better then. Shane williams has been player of year and was never best winger in the world.
Natural talent = genetic disposition. Some people make better use of their genes than others. JW has made good use of his and will hopefully go on doing so.