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Well I wouldn't give up a good career to get into it .Lots of boring repetitive tasks to do , lots of boring people to talk to , long hours , minimal rewards , minimal spare time , high risk of marriage/relationship failure , high risk of ill health .
I have been a chef in a 2 michelin starred restaurant and done what you are proposing to do , although not in the peak district . I hated it if you couldn't tell .
Go to a publicans forum not a bike forum for advice about opening a pub .
Q - How do you make a small fortune in the pub trade?
A - Start off with a large fortune...
Surely the trick here is to buy it, work your balls off for three years to make it good and then sell at an increased price?
i can trump that 3 michelin stars and flock wall paper.. i did a smashing pot noodle and cuppa soup that was much sought after as was my eggy bread ( proper chefs food)..
Are you planning accommodation? Peaks (just to annoy the pedants) was made a national park for the very reason that it is bang central for millions of homes. Maybe not so popular year round for weekend stays etc as people day trip it. No evidence to support that - just a thought. You ever been to Hope on a cold, wet Tuesday in November?
Also, as evidenced on here and indeed in Hope every weekend, mtb'ers are generally tight wads - reluctant to pay for parking yet alone meals out / accommodation.
Maybe just open Thursday - Sunday and save on staff bills? Micro-brewery might give you a unique appeal...
Would you do pub food or michelin star food and be more like a restaurant?
Accommodation = field for tents and lockable bike storage? I'd pay you a visit f'sure.
Take a look at the Clachaig Inn, Glencoe to see what a destination pub looks like. Good choice of real ale, live music at the weekends, a walkers bar with slate floor and real fire. Would seem like a good start?
It would help if you are in close proximity to a couple of local campsites, or perhaps a YHA? This could provide much needed traffic throughout the season.
Top this with good, honest food and you'd be onto a winner. If you are trying to attract mountain bikers then the food should be tasty, generous and simple. Avoid any sort of pre-prepared food like the plaugue - it's always a massive dissapointment to order a sticky toffee pudding only to find out that it's one of those pre-packaged things that's been stuck in a microwave.
Get known for a signature dish - perhaps a big bowl of homemade chilli, perhaps the best burger in the peak district, perhaps a fantastic shepherds pie. Basically something that's unique and legendary enough that people will tell their mates about it and keep coming back for more.
Limit the menu to around 10 dishes and perhaps a couple of specials that change regularly. I sound like Gordon Ramsey now. Seriously, I'd far rather go to a place where the time was spent to get a small selection of dishes 'just right' than somewhere that tries to do everything under the sun, but all are a bit mediocre. Also unless you can make a curry as well as your local Indian, best avoid. If I want a curry I'll go to an Indian, good pub food then I'll go to a pub.
Secure bike parking is a must. You get some bikers who will not want to let their bikes out of their sight so that should be considered. Perhaps you could set us a service point? Have a bike mechanic as a barman. That way bikes could be fixed or washed for riders at the end of a day. If someone offered to clean my bike for a fiver whilst I'm tucked up warm with a pint then that would be good by me. Someone having their bike repaired is a captive market for food and drink. The longer the repair takes, the more coffee they will drink.
Consider offering guided rides and make up your own local routecards that start and end from near the pub.
Employ people with the right attitude. Someone who is always smiley, friendly and helpful is always a better bet than an expert waiter who's miserable. Bar and waiting skills can be trained - the right attitude, well you either have it or you don't.
Hope this helps?
Rebel12 it's like you have seen my business plan!
Yeah agree with everything you have said: narrow menu of great home cooked food, local guides employed as bar staff, hook up with a local bike shop to offer late night repairs/opening (or have some spare at the pub), secure bike lock with anchor points in the ground, guided rides and route cards from the pub.
My mate raves about the Clachaig Inn, think that's the benchmark!
There is a variety of punters out there some have money and are happy to spend other have money and are not happy to spend. The rest don't have money.
Thanks for the feedback.
Edric64 - homecooked local produce, maybe 5 mains on the menu, sharing plates and 5 desserts. Lots of good ale too!
cb... yeah micro brewery great idea!
Agree loads of cities/towns around the park so might not aim the venue at them.
Good feedback, thanks.
Ramsey Neil - where did you try it?
Would you be able to spare some time to chat about it with me?
I really like the idea about havine a couple of different route cards. If I can go from the door of the pub on a nice ride that finishes back there then im much more likely to end the ride with a pint and some food than if I have to get in the car and drive somewhere first.
Big sharing plates and proper beers are top of my list post ride so sounds like you could be on to a winner, especially when you combine that with the cracking riding around that part of the world!
Hope it works out for you and keep us posted on any progress!
If you can do simple bar/pub food on one side and fancy michelin starred restaurant food in the other and the kitchen can cope then you can tap into two markets thereby increasing trade.
One of my favourite pubs always kept it simple with the food it offered as lunchtime and evening. It wasn't posh at all but it was good. They had a 'in the pot' daily special of some stew served with some bread that was very cheap and not too big. Too many pubs seem to justify inflated prices with huge portions. If you are catering for active people in the day eill they want a GIANT plate and a pregnant food feeling to set them up for the rest of the ride/hike.
Can you get a micro-brewery going as that really makes a difference in the Lakes - Watermill @ Ings and the Drunken Duck at Barngates near Hawkshead both do well, although the Duck is seriously posh and a real destination pub.
Also consider splitting the bar - perhaps a more rough and ready area (but still warm and cosy) area for bikers, and perhaps a more family orientated area for day to day traffic. That way you can cater to both markets. The bikers get their den of sin, filled with bike porn (magazines and inspirational photos) and the tourists are not put off by smelly, muddy bikers.
Yeah a bikers and family room would work - good idea.
Think we will just have one menu at sensible prices.
[i]Take a look at the Clachaig Inn, Glencoe to see what a destination pub looks like. Good choice of real ale, live music at the weekends, a walkers bar with slate floor and real fire. Would seem like a good start?[/i]
But that has little/no competition and has been like that for over 30 years (from personal recollection), and unlike The Peaks, very difficult for most people to just pack up the car and be home in an hour.
tbh I'd do it with someone-elses' money, but not mine... For a business plan work on no income Mon-Thu?
Wish you success.
Decent pub with car park near Peak riding with real ale and food = we'd use it to park at then come back for ale and food.
That's how our rides usually work 🙂 Non of that cake 'n' coffee bollox some writers in the mag are always going on about....!
If it was in Castleton yes. Anywhere else no.
Edric64 - homecooked local produce, maybe 5 mains on the menu, sharing plates and 5 desserts. Lots of good ale too!
Thank god for that .you want to run a pub as a pub.To many try to be something they are not in the food line and real ale to ,great.
A cautionary tale
Some Very Good Friends of hours bought a pub 6 years ago and sold it last year. During that time the business was very busy, great food trade and a steady wet trade (no accommodation), they worked 6am to midnight 6 days a week, and on the seventh (tuesday in their case) they had the morning off and did the accounts, so just midday to midnight Tuesdays. They got by, managed to pay their staff and got out with only £50K more debt than they went in with.
He put on weight, his health suffered, she nearly died from a combination of stress induced heart issues, they never socialised - just hosted, rarely saw their friends other than as customers.
They enjoyed the experience to start with but it soon ground them down.
Just be sure it is what you want to do.
Anybody got a happy ending story to counter that?
(I have - [url= http://www.thekinmelarms.co.uk/ ]sucess[/url])
Petefile/Richtea
Those are them. Buck Inn everytime, good beers too. Ran out of rabbit pie which was bloody lovely. Good chat and dogs under the table. Everything a pub should be.
If this is in the Hope valley then I would say the area is crying out for something like this. If it is within pedalling distance of Sheffield then even better.
The area is really lacking in a decent post ride/walk pub (I'm sure people will now list loads though) that does decent beer, is reasonably priced and isn't just there to fleece toruists and day trippers who don't venture more than 5 mins from their car. (Cheshire Cheese anyone?)
I'd certainly go and I live in the area.
But it needs to be done properly to survive and eventually thrive. I would say;
-Don't be too bikey. You don't want to appear to be cliquey as I'd want to go to a place like this with my family after a walk, maybe for a beer with non bikey mates or after a full on mud fest epic in the peak. (Maybe even in lycra after a ride with some roadies! 8O)
- Think decent pub, but very bike friendly, rather than [url= http://www.lookmumnohands.com/ ]Look Mum No Hands[/url] in the peak
-Go look at the Cricket Inn and the Inn at Troway for pubs that people will drive to in the area for some inspiration. They are full mid week as well.
-Thornbridge Ales, nom nom nom.
Pub AND microbrewery? You won't have time to sleep - just use a local quality brewer.
The TyG does ok despite dodgy plumbing and road noise because the food & beer is good and the location is perfect. Something similar in the Peak should work.
The clincher for me would be being able to see my bike. If I can see it I'll be there for lunch and three or four pints, if not, I'll keep riding.
Look mum no hands sold lush muffins at the handmade bike show in Brizzle though
It sounds Ace and I'd go. Most MTB'ers are easy to please with some good food and Ale. We go back to the Yorkshire Bridge quite often, freindly staff goes along way to a return visit!
However, I think unless you intend to put a manager in place and be happy to let him or her take the reigns you will working you fingers to the bone day in and day out. Unfortunately that is the reality of the business.
Good luck, give it some serious thought!
Buy it outright if you can to stop the tied brewery killing your margins.
Yep be happy to put a manger in while i open up another hotel/pub once i have hit on the successful formula . Dip in from time to time when we have big promotions on.
Think a free house and local brew is the best option tbh.
I know nothing about the pub trade apart from drinking and eating in them! But...
If your planning on putting in anchor points, are you also providing some locks? Call me lazy, but I hardly ever want to carry a decent hefty lock on a ride with me. Small things.
Yeah lets have locks as well. Give the customers what they want
Bike wash and lube bar
Have a look at the 3 stags heads, in wardlow mires - doesn't much like bikers but..
Has a camp site next door, has fires, has good beer and good big plates of local food.
Also closes mon-thurs as there is not enough passing trade.
Also knows that tourists come and go but you need locals to pay the bills.
Best pub in the Peak, bar none
Please, before you go any further and start specifying what sort of paint you are going to use on the helicopter landing pad, talk to some ( ex ) publicans.
Good chat and dogs under the table
Could be a childs' [s]face[/s] feet next time 👿
Best of luck mrchrist - most of my working life has been in catering (up until about ten years ago) and it's fahookin hard work, as you know. My mum and stepdad bought a house with three [url= http://www.isleofskyecottages.co.uk ]self catering cottages on Skye[/url] a while ago. They're both supposed to be retired but they never stop. There's always something to be fixed or improved, or a new marketing angle to work at.
Keep us updated!
We once were a proud nation of beer monsters where the average working man existed in varying states of inebriation. This is no longer the case and pubs all over the country are on their arses.
Will selling a couple of extra bags of crips to weekend mtb’s be enough?
I would ignore everything on this thread and do some serious research, specifically pubs that work (as in make a profit not just look busy) and the local market / location.
one thing to watch out for - if you're not actually buying it but are leasing - keep an eye out for a fully repairing lease clause. Publicans assume these aren't enforced but some of the breweries / pubCo's are completely screwing their tenants over in order to get very long term building defects repaired at no expense to themselves. If it's got a clause like that in the contract and the building isn't in good nick then walk away.
Without seeing the place or knowing the financial details involved...
You seem to have quite a good handle on things (multiple income stream ideas as the stw hive mind suggest, not being too posh food wise, simple short & fresh menu etc) and being the chef yourself will remove one of the largest costs in kitchen wages and put you in control of the most important thing you sell.
Listen to lots of trade advice if you can, but don't take most of it, just absorb it.
Suggestion... You sound like you know what a cyclist wants from a pub, so why don.t you talk to serious walkers, horseriders etc to find out what they want (and build contacts..)
As you can probably guess what I do for a living from my username, feel free to contact me if you need any pointers...
Good luck!
+1 Farmer john...
campsite and floodlit pumptrack 8)
one thing to watch out for - if you're not actually buying it but are leasing - keep an eye out for a fully repairing lease clause. Publicans assume these aren't enforced but some of the breweries / pubCo's are completely screwing their tenants over in order to get very long term building defects repaired at no expense to themselves. If it's got a clause like that in the contract and the building isn't in good nick then walk away.
+1 like any business we were screwed over on dilapidations clause(s) in our old office. A professional Surveyor came round and spent a day measuring, gauging etc and his report was almost 30pages long.
Yes you've got to be careful, my mrs works for one of the largest pub companies in the country and they can be brutal, worked at loads of star restaurants over the years and one of the first pubs to have one, there isn't many of my mates who've got a good word to say about her company. All that being said you already said its a freehold property, which will be good as you're not tied to purchasing, you just need to find out who looks after your lines, might be InBev.
campsite and floodlit pumptrack
Now we're talking 😀
Kids food - every pub I have ever been in is unwilling to recognise that a three year old will eat less than a ten year old (if they welcome kids at all - families spend lots!). Sensibly priced, flexible portions of REAL food, not this de-frosted, deep fried rubbish will get families coming back for more. A family on hols for a week will remember good family orientated service and will pass on your name by word of mouth. We could learn a lot from the Italians in that respect...
Obviously, the two bar area suggestions above will keep my grotty little oiks well away from the crank polishing, half a cider nursing mtbers who appear to want you to wash their bikes while they eat...
If bikers are your main target - a chargeable shower option could be worth considering if you have outbuildings that could be used. Even day trippers will value being warm and clean on their drive home. Tis going beyond the 'pub' theme though.
I work at at a pub just into the Peak District. The food is brilliant, and that's what brings customers to any pub. Reasonable car park and plenty of parking on the road means we get lots of walkers. Freeholding too, so guest beers are easy to sort. Irrelevant to me working there, I'd highly recommend it to anyone. We're busy whenever I'm working, but other pubs locally have struggled, then seem to be bought by someone else, who struggles and sells on, until they shut up shop for good. If you can do good food and beer and have good off-road parking I think you'll do well. Where are you looking at?