[Closed] Budget Day!

Anyone think Hammond's speech may make them better off?

Will the punchline be and the full cost of delivering brexit will be, I'm not sure how safe he feels with all those tories behind him

Do they even mean anything these days? I always thought as a kid they were cast in stone.
Now they seem to throw things out straight afterwards.

Diesel up
Petrol Up (but less than diesel)
Booze Up
Fags Up
Promises made to extract more tax from [i]Big Business[/i] and borrowing more based on that assumption to fund some feel good rises in public spending.
Probably some token tax cuts
Some mention of Brexit

Hammond probably sacked afterwards 🙂

£350 million a week extra for the NHS?

I'm pretty certain that will be in there! I saw it on the side of a bus

This bus binners?

[img] [/img]

binners - Member
£350 million a week extra for the NHS?

I'm pretty certain that will be in there! I saw it on the side of a bus

Sadly the first two years worth will be taken up paying the EU £40bn to maintain a worse trading position than we have now.

Budget will reflect the cost of that (or rather the extra interest payments on borrowing it).

I wonder how the markets, GDP projections, and national credit ratings would be effected if May stood before No10 and said "jobs ****ed, we can't do it - lets pretend it never happened eh?".

Time to buy some stirling after then?

Well, buying land in Scotland might not be a bad idea.....

😉

Sadly the first two years worth will be taken up paying the EU £40bn to maintain a worse trading position than we have now.

Whatever he does, he'll do it safe in the knowledge that the people sat behind him would all happily knife him in the back, and are all willing him to fail

Seeing as its the one day you're allowed to drink at the despatch box, I'd like to see him rock up with a 2-litre bottle of White Lightning, periodically take a huge swig of it, then turn round and call Gove and Boris a pair of ****s! 😀

He's stuck in traffic on Whitehall, proceedings may be delayed.

We were always going to have to pay a divorce bill. The point is trying to extract something in return rather than just handing over a wad of cash for nothing in return. That's negotiations for anyone who's ever been involved in negotiation,it's an obvious tactic. The EU know they're screwed without our cash, we want a half decent trade deal, they want us to pay the bill without giving anything up to neutralise our advantage, we want to hold onto and leverage our advantage as long as possible and only agree to pay if we're getting something in return like a decent trade deal, and prepared to pay a premium to get it - better to pay a one-off bill than pay into an open ended annual fee.

It's really pretty simple at the end of the day. No trade deal, no divorce payment and we'll see you in court and our legal liabilities to the EU are half a percent of sweet FA. But in that scenario there are no winners as the EU will be screwed and even the most hardened tory brexiteer doesn't want that.

The budget will be crap by the way. Hammond has no manoeuvring room at all. It'll be light tweaks here and there, some minor losers, some minor winners, grasping at some low hanging fruit, like the diesel tax. The overall net situation will be unchanged so just a case of shuffling the deckchairs around. Until Brexit happens and we know what the landscape looks like we can't and shouldn't make any radical changes at this time.

[i]We were always going to have to pay a divorce bill... just handing over a wad of cash for nothing in return.[/i]

that's pretty much what a divorce bill is for a lot of people!

Not expecting that much in the budget. End of public sector pay cap ? Will be a bit of a damp squib really IMO in terms of taxes and spending. Much talk about a technological future though which is hardly new.

It's the EU's position that that is the money we owe for having been members but hadn't paid yet. It's not a divorce bill but the real cost of being a member which is much higher than the £363m a week we send them. I am with Gove in that £110m a week should have been announced for the NHS as soon as we triggered A50 with the rest to follow in April 2020 (paid for via increased tariff income both from RoW and EU)

I am with Gove in that £110m a week should have been announced for the NHS as soon as we triggered A50 with the rest to follow in April 2020 (paid for via increased tariff income both from RoW and EU)

Nobody really cares about the budget these days, there is less manure to move around someone else’s desk and claim it’s “new” money when it’s been proven for 10year+ that it’s all lies and deceit, penny posturing and political “if it wasn’t for the previous incumbent.....” horsecrap.

As far Brexit goes he’s in a very peculiar situation, knowing any tax rises between now and then will be met with anger, whilst preparing to fill a deficit to pay the EU off to gain less control and the U.K. succumbing to arbitrarily trade deals and increased prices.
Tax and Spend seems less onerous a choice compared with the financial trench we face, loss of jobs and companies escaping the U.K. without the governments current backhanded deals already made with car manufacturers and energy suppliers.

So I think he will provide nothing more than a sheet of A4 with fancy gold leaf edging with a picture of a pirate and a map and an X marks the spot on an island surrounded by sharks.

It'd be great if he delivered the speech dressed like a pirate. If I was chancellor, I would. While swigging out of a can of Stella

We were always going to have to pay a divorce bill.

Conveniently ignoring all the times we were told we wouldn't have to pay a penny:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/03/04/britain-will-not-have-pay-penny-leave-european-union-say-peers/

And Boris Johnson famously saying they can "go whistle".

https://www.ft.com/content/a0e25381-e85b-3572-baf2-3acf9aeba52a

But yes it will be interesting to see how the Budget looks given they need to set aside an undisclosed but large amount for the divorce bill and there is no magic money tree.

Binners - love your image of Hammond swigging from a 2ltr white lightning 😀
Subject for a new piece piece of art from your pen?

Well, we are still in too much debt and GDP is revised down again.

Squeezed middle except moreso, going to be a tough couple of years as everything gets more expensive. Not a good time to be working in Public Sales sales eh...

Here we go

Brexit
£3bn to be set aside over next two years to prepare UK for every possible outcome as it leaves EU

Vehicle excise duty for diesel cars that do not meet latest standards to rise by one band in April 2018
[b]Tax hike will not apply to van owners[/b]

Well smack me around the head with a Whitby Kipper...

He’s just announced £350m to be invested in the old Tata Steel works at Redcar, for economic development..

This had better be real money and not some half arsed fag packet innuendo..

😯

Brexit
£3bn to be set aside over next two years to prepare UK for every possible outcome as it leaves EU

Probably about 1/100th of the actual cost.....

I'll take the Brexit comments over to that thread rather than derail this one, but it's a nice list of what you could spend 3bn on there...

So back on the budget, from the BBC summary, lots of spending (magic few bn for the NHS there) among other things, tax bands to go up, freeze on a lot of taxes etc etc. now I'm sure many would be lining up to shout Commie Bastard if the other side had promised lots with no clear way of paying for them so where has this cash come from? How is it suddenly available? Why wasn't it being spent before or have we just shuffled the deck and not mentioned the cuts....

Binners - love your image of Hammond swigging from a 2ltr [u]white lightning[/u]

Tax up 2p/litre

No stamp duty for first time buyers up to £300k

Won't this just up the house prices like help to buy?

Canning stamp duty is a nice incentive for first time buyers. I was one 12 months ago. Wish I could get those thousands back.. wish also, they'd do something about the ground rent scam. F all about that since the review concluded.

Looking forward to analyses from the number crunchers supported by a close reading of the small print.

Jezza sounds emotional and about to burst into tears.

For a politico some of Hammond's quips were amusing.

When does the new stamp duty take effect from?

First time buyer within the 300-500 bracket, Exchanged a couple of weeks ago but only due to complete on 8th December. Would be amazing if it was effectively immediately!! 😆

https://www.stampdutycalculator.org.uk/stamp-duty-changes.htm

Has crashed 😆

For a politico some of Hammond's quips were amusing.

Jeremy being snubbed by Hammond & May raised a titter here.

How is it suddenly available?

Well for one, Public sector budgets will still be cut on the basis of the prior plans. Nothing new need be announced it was already in place.

Extra Road fund licence? Booze tax? Plastic Tax (watch out celebrities)? Basically everything you use and consume taxed a little more every year.

@nathb from BBC news:

BREAKING Stamp duty scrapped for first-time buyers
In what is probably the eyecatching announcement of the Budget, tirst-time homebuyers will no longer have to pay stamp duty for properties of up to £300,000.

The chancellor announces he is abolishing the charge from [b]today[/b].

Won't this just up the house prices like help to buy?

It would be quite silly if it did, I would assume FTB's are a small portion of all home buys?

In what is probably the eyecatching announcement of the Budget, tirst-time homebuyers will no longer have to pay stamp duty for properties of up to £300,000.
The chancellor announces he is abolishing the charge from today.

How many FTB's can afford this nowadays? Surely the smallest giveaway ever.

Home many 1st time buyers are buying properties upto £300K, Scottish threshold was £145K.

where has this cash come from? How is it suddenly available?

He's got whatever the interest payments on £8.4bn would have been to play with. Although very much agree with the sentiment, it would be nice if budgets gave more detail on the impact it has in the overall balance sheet.

Annual borrowing £49.9bn this year, £8.4bn lower than forecast in March

Home many 1st time buyers are buying properties upto £300K, Scottish threshold was £145K.

ours was 242k, 15 months ago. HTB limit was 250k iirc, that equity loan helped us over the line including help from family.

WOOOO 🙂

Still 5% over 300k?

Think I've just saved 6k!

Good to see minimum wage going up.

Odd to hear £350m more to the NHS over the winter, Shirley BloJo promised that a week.. maybe Spreadsheet bloke ought to ask BloJo for the remaining deficit in the calculations...

Good to hear about reforcasting productivity downwards, the reality is we’ll be seeing less growth and more debt due to Brexit, seems like Hammonds the only one willing to come clean on the realities.. maybe he ought to have a word with his cohorts..

I don't think it's coincidence that the NHS money is £350m. He's obviously trolling 😆

Home many 1st time buyers are buying properties upto £300K, Scottish threshold was £145K.

Me, looking at properties up to £280k just to get a 3 bed with some grass!

On the diesel tax increase, does that mean if you have for example a T5 converted into a camper it wont increase?

where has this cash come from? How is it suddenly available?

He's increasing spending by £6 billion per year. This will be achieved by increasing the deficit.

I don't think it's coincidence that the NHS money is £350m. He's obviously trolling

That's what I thought, too.

I do love the fact that government policy is now a sort of petty, yah-boo parlour game amongst a load of public schoolboys. The next logical step is, I suppose, to decide it with a game involving biscuits

Home many 1st time buyers are buying properties upto £300K, Scottish threshold was £145K.

no it wasnt . we didnt pay stamp on our gaff and it was more than 145- and less than 300k mind - alot less....

Good to see minimum wage going up.

now £7.83 an hour,

Band 1/2 NHS at the first pay point in band are now only 5p above minimum wage at £7.88

😥

a load of public schoolboys.

Philip Hammond went to a comp

Home many 1st time buyers are buying properties upto £300K, Scottish threshold was £145K.

We bought our house as first time buyers ten years ago and it was £245K

And that's in the North East of England where house prices are relatively low.

Does Mr Hammond really think that the market won't adjust to account for his Stamp Duty giveaway?

Surely prices will just rise to take up the slack, homeowners (of FTBish places) will get slightly richer, FTBers will be pretty much unaffected and the taxpayer will foot the bill?

Surely prices will just rise to take up the slack, homeowners (of FTBish places) will get slightly richer, FTBers will be pretty much unaffected and the taxpayer will foot the bill?

That's what the OBR says.

.

Grenfell Tower
£28m for mental health services and local regeneration for Kensington and Chelsea council.

Really??
[url= https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jun/19/kensington-chelsea-council-has-274m-in-reserves-grenfell-tower-budget-surplus ]To a council that had stockpiled £274m and offered rebates?? [/url]
🙄

First thing I thought too Teetoo, WTF does K&C need more money for. Just needs to share out what it's already got a bit more equitably.

nickhit3 - Member

Canning stamp duty is a nice incentive for first time buyers. I was one 12 months ago. Wish I could get those thousands back..

You wouldn't have benefitted unless you were lucky on timing, the market will "correct" in no time. It's a bribe for houseowners not a help for buyers.

Philip Hammond went to a comp

And he's the only one out of the bloody lot of them who's not acting like this whole thing isn't just jolly japes, and a whizzo wheeze!

Who's going to get to be head boy?

The whole budget has been viewed through the prism of this nonsense

And that includes the previous shower, still sniping from the sidelines, totally indifferent to the complete shitstorm they've left the rest of us in, while they pocket their millions

****s, the lot of 'em!!

Yep binners, that's just about right.

Tariffs are paid by the consumer.

@mike Not always. Switzerland has a broad free trade deal with the EU however for 50% of their exports despite being on items which qualify for zero tariff they coose to pay a small WTO traiff as its cheaper than completing the free trade paperwork. A perfect example pf where an exporter chooses to pay a tariff.

Also no one likes a tax dodge like Ireland or Luxembourg

From an SME business point of view the budget contains nothing to promote or support the SME. The cutting of the £5k dividend to £2k tax free benefit is a real backwards step as it reduces the potential benefit from risking your capital in starting an SME.

We need some radical thoughts on creating business and opportunity, this is a dull as dish water budget.

£8.42 a month better off come April - the full £17 for our household. Honesty though, we’re far from wealthy, but we can live just fine without the £17, I know some people are really struggling but I reckon that’s £245m a month lost to HMRC, nearly £3bn a year that could go to he NHS, a quarter of the Bus Promise, but a decent chunk.

Won't this just up the house prices like help to buy?

It would be quite silly if it did, I would assume FTB's are a small portion of all home buys?

Yep, it only benefits house owners selling, who now get an extra £5k sale price. The OBR report on the help to buy scheme found this is what happened with the last sop to FTBs. Good PR for your thick as mince Sun/Mail/Express readers, but no actual help to FTBs.

I wonder if there are conditions to prevent the FTB bullshit being abused the same way CGT gets swerved, nice butty if you can take advantage of one and swerve the other. Early retirements for property investors are always nice.

My daughter’s FTB flat was £180k in Brighton 3 years, up from there but still well under £300k. Any stamp duty saving is welcome and it will help other family members as the first 300k is excempt if you spend more as a FTB

dirtyrider - Member
Good to see minimum wage going up.
now £7.83 an hour,

Band 1/2 NHS at the first pay point in band are now only 5p above minimum wage at £7.88

That is ****ing disgusting.....

Spent more time in NHS hospitals this summer than I did outside and was truly humbled seeing the work that everyone from the professors through to the cleaning staff put in...
Those people deserve more, imo.

Switzerland has a broad free trade deal with the EU however for 50% of their exports despite being on items which qualify for zero tariff they coose to pay a small WTO traiff as its cheaper than completing the free trade paperwork. A perfect example pf where an exporter chooses to pay a tariff.

Also no one likes a tax dodge like Ireland or Luxembourg

The Swiss are a bunch of conniving ********s. The slimiest and dodgiest group of people ever.

How many FTB's can afford this nowadays? Surely the smallest giveaway ever.

We recently sold our house for £330k to first time buyers.

When does the new minimum wage take effect? I'm 3p/hr below that!

A lot of people saying prices will just go up by 5K, I would hope this isn't the case but even if it does, it will still help FTB'ers as that can be put on the mortgage but stamp duty needs to be paid in cash - on top of all the other fees and a deposit.