[Closed] Brown shoes and loud ties hamper bankers

I'll remove my tie when it gets warm, thank you very much. And I'll thank you to not tell me how to dress, it's my choice. If you don't like it, get over it, it's your problem.
Judgemental asshattery at its finest. 🙄

I imagine neither of you are investment bankers?

I imagine neither of you are investment bankers?

To be honest, I read the article and thought who'd want to be one if that was what it was like?

Allways thought the rules were suit and tie = black shoes while a suit with no tie means brown shoes can be worn.

I imagine neither of you are investment bankers?

What, if any, is your point?

I assume he means that if you were you'd understand how crucial it was that you wore black shoes and could tie a half windsor on a dull coloured tie....

If the job has standards and you wish to do that job, why wouldn't you make an effort at least?

I'm hiring a minion in the US at the moment. If they arrive at the interview without a suit and tie* they're not getting hired. The markets they'd be servicing have expectations.

*I do take in to consideration the utterly dreadful nature of American tailoring, of course. **

** If a female candidate, I'll overlook the tie requirement, obviously.

No brown in town. Always been the unwritten rule.

I read this and was surprised it was newsworthy, if you interview for a job anywhere corporate you wear a plain shirt, a navy or grey suit, a subtly patterned tie and clean, black shoes. Certainly that was always the advice I was given and indeed would pass on.

I assume he means that if you were you'd understand how crucial it was that you wore black shoes and could tie a half windsor on a dull coloured tie....

No brown in town. Always been the unwritten rule.

I read this and was surprised it was newsworthy, if you interview for a job anywhere corporate you wear a plain shirt, a navy or grey suit, a subtly patterned tie and clean, black shoes. Certainly that was always the advice I was given and indeed would pass on

Back in the fifties probably its 2016 now.

Back in the fifties probably its 2016 now.

Try turning up at your local fast food emporium for a job interview in white tie. You'll find that you'll be judged there, too.

I work in corporate banking and occasionally wear brown shoes. There is however a time and a place for formal city attire. I wouldn't be adverse to hiring someone with brown shoes myself but at the same time I'd never turn up to an interview with brown shoes. It is not hard to look half decent anymore. Well chosen supermarket clobber could just about do the job!

Back in the fifties probably its 2016 now.

Come on, if you go for an interview you should do your research. And anyone who researched banking would know it's conservative and so you dress appropriately. Why is that difficult or in any way negative?

If the job has standards and you wish to do that job, why wouldn't you make an effort at least?

Old rules for oldies.

Thankfully the days of stripy shirts and red braces have died with the stiffs that wore them.

It's true you need to look smart, look like you mean business and have standards and follow them. But it's not true to pick one, maybe two items out and force ridicule.
But turning up to an interview with a gross tie and brown shoes does mean you'll be overlooked, if you get the job you'll be surprised at what you can wear day to day.
However, there are a few companies in the City that can pick and choose their candidates, but those candidates have been chosen, and watched, from Prep School and through the established School path. As they say, if you are not on the list, you are not getting in. If that's elitist, you have no choice but then you'll never meet anyone from those circles.

Their club, their rules...

turning up to an interview with a gross tie and brown shoes does mean you'll be overlooked, if you get the job you'll be surprised at what you can wear day to day

Yep. Also, a quick bit of interwebular research before the interview would be all that was needed to know roughly what was expected.

If you can't even do a little research before an interview......

But they have made an effort. How is someone at their first real job interview supposed to know that you (apparently) don't wear brown shoes.

If only there was some kind of online article setting it all out. Oh....

Brown shoes and loud ties hamper bankers

I thought it was laws and regulations that hampered bankers.

I'll remove my tie when it gets warm, thank you very much. And I'll thank you to not tell me how to dress, it's my choice. If you don't like it, get over it, it's your problem.

While working in practice accountancy many years ago I turned up in a short-sleeved shirt sans tie in the Summer. My reasoning was that as I didn't work in IT (at the time) and didn't sport a fading glory I was well within my rights.

Was informed by the office manager that it didn't matter what kind of shirt I wore; I [i]had[/i] to wear a tie. So... the following day I borrowed a hideous Bermuda shirt and paired it with an awesome Scooby-doo tie.

It didn't go down well

I'm not surprised frankly, I worked in corporate finance for a long time - they're fairly free and easy for entry level jobs, but White & Middle-Class (based on how they talk rather than anything else) recruits for the most part. 75% male at least too.

When I started the rules were black shoes, black belt, blue, grey (not too light) or charcoal suit (not black, we're not undertakers). White shirt, somber, smart tie. No jewery other than wedding ring and watch, not flash, not 'plastic' (no g-shocks). Sensible haircut. Clean shaven or a beard, if you want to grow a beard you do it on your hols. The rules less stringent in the handbook, but you'd be told straight away if you wandered off the path. That wasn't 1956 either, those were still the rules in 2009, probably still are. I can imagine someone turning up with a white tie or brown 'casual' shoes would be memorable at interview, but never get the job.

I didn't work in every dept of every bank, but the ones are I saw were very much only interested in PLUs, not racist or sexist in the tradition sense (although some were, very vocally and it was never challenged) just only wanted to work with people like them. Which meant more white, middle class males.

If you wanted to progress it would be much easier if you were male, very few Women got past the first few runs on the ladder, all managers in every dept I ever saw, white, male, middle class - golf nuts or passionate football fans and like that all the way up to prople you might have seen on TV arroganty refusing to accept any failure on their part or that of the bank after the crash happened.

Brown shoes and loud ties are for estate agents and working class weddings

@ P-Jay - sounds ****ing horrendous.

I would not work somewhere like that.

It's a uniform in every sense of the word. Imagination and style to be left at the door.

@ P-Jay - sounds **** horrendous.

I would not work somewhere like that.

and from the article

"What kind of industry is this where I can be told that I'm a good candidate, I'm sharp, but I'm not polished enough?"

[quote=CaptainFlashheart ]** If a female candidate, I'll overlook the tie requirement, obviously.

Sexist

utterly dreadful nature of American tailoring

I couldn't do a job if I had to wear a lot of clothes. If it's hot I get hot.
Luckily I can wear t shirt ,shorts and flip flops at work .
I have to wear a suit again on Monday and I will be uncomfortable . I put it on in the car park of the crem and remove it as soon as the tea and cake have finished.
Loads of people don't mind wearing lots of clothes ,I feel suffocated.

Agree with lunge, what's news about stating the bleeding obvious and trying to make it into a class issue (Millburn) is frankly absurd/desperate.

The use of the word "polish" was mildly amusing though.

I did have the opposite problem with a v talented Korean lady who would overdress for client meetings. That's a more challenging conversation, trying not to hurt her feelings.

The younger contributors on here may believe it doesn't matter but the fact is that when you enter a meeting or an interview your appearance counts for a lot. Brown shoes with a suit, loud or over-wide ties, loud or coloured shirts or suits, they will all mark you out as a non-conformist or somebody with bad taste or judgement. I have a colleague who is well salaried and has a good job but he wears brown shoes and dresses like a footballer in a club and it looks wrong. In the couple of customer meetings I've attended with him he has called the customers "you guys" which makes me wince in pain. He would not get a job in the City.

and these are the folk telling women that wearing a burka is proof of muslamic oppression?

Their club, their rules...

Its important we maintain the glass ceiling, it's what stops those above from falling through the glass floor.

they will all mark you out as a non-conformist or somebody with bad taste or judgement.

or someone who exercises judgement instead of conformity. It might be bad judgement but simply demonstrating that you follow without question is hardly a ringing endorsement.

I'm hiring a minion in the US at the moment. If they arrive at the interview without a suit and tie* they're not getting hired

I'd have thought that denim dungarees were de rigeur for minions.
No?

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Good Effort young man. You're hired....
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there's some pompous goofballs on here hey 😆

I'm guessing that none of you have ever risen above middle management

If the job has standards and you wish to do that job, why wouldn't you make an effort at least?

As noted they have made an effort its just that they dont understand your rules which are hardly difficult to teach a prospective candidate
For this role its is important we adhere to an outdated and highly conservative dress code that means you would be expected to wear ...... would this be acceptable to you and do you think you could meet this requirement ?

TBH we all know the colour of your shoes or the quality of your windsor knot is no indication of your ability to do the job. Given this I have no idea why some of us are still so hung up on attire for roles.

if a female candidate, I'll overlook the tie requirement, obviously

trying to make it into a class issue

Glad i dont work in such a conservative environment and I work in one where people judge my ability to do a job based on something real and observable rather than the colour of my shoes

I wear brown shoes with my suit. But I wear navy or tweed suits

Looking at the financial sector rules I see that it would appear to be a bit of a conservative environment, experience would tell me that the banking sector doesn't employ the most flambouyant characters.
So, why would someone who want to demonstrate their individuality want to work in an environment of rather boring clones? Leave it to those who want to conform.

I'm guessing that none of you have ever risen above middle management

In our industry no one wears a tie even at board level, not our CEO, not our investors. Can't recall the last time I saw a customer wear a tie either, I've done plenty of presentations at VP level ($billion US Corps) and neither I nor any of our customers had ties on.

Sorry Junky, but the ability to look up on the internet to find out what the dress code is before you attend an interview is nothing to do with class and all about research. Google "what to wear to an interview" and there are countless articles that state that wearing black shoes, a subtle suit, plain shirt and subtle patterned tie is good practise. Ignoring that is nothing to do with class and all about being a fool.

The industry I work in attracts people of all classes, or all sexes and of all religions yet still holds a similar dress code. Appearance counts, maybe it shouldn't but it does.

But, if you don't want to wear a suit to work that's fine, don't work in banking. Personally I quite like it, a well fitted suit can make a fella look and feel pretty damn good. But if that's not for you, fine, just pick another job.

I'd always assumed that investment bankers spent the majority of their time clad in PVC S&M clothing, while coked off their nuts in the dungeon of some dominatrix. In which case I can see their issue with brown shoes and loud ties. They'd clash horribly

no one wears a tie even at board level, not our CEO, not our investors

my point was more that above middle management, people interviewing are going to be a little more interested in what's going on in the prospective employees head than what's going on in their wardrobe

Why was that even newsworthy though?

But they have made an effort. How is someone at their first real job interview supposed to know that you (apparently) don't wear brown shoes.

In fairness, if you've graduated from uni with a first in maths/engineering/physics and want to go into banking, then the differentiation between two candidates could well be "can they dress themselves appropriately?" And if the unwritten rule is black suit, black shoes, plain tie that's not hard to follow.

I work in engineering, we're still expected to turn up in a suit and tie everyday, I stopped bothering with the tie after a while on the same project with the same client, but still had a neutral one in my desk drawer for meeting new clients or wore one if the clients management team was due in the office.

It's not like a suit is expensive, you can pick up a reasonable one for less than I (and most) probably spent on a cycling kit.

my point was more that above middle management, people interviewing are going to be a little more interested in what's going on in the prospective employees head than what's going on in their wardrobe

Probably true, but would you employ someone who's first impression was maverick/nonconformist/can't dress appropriately? It's like spelling mistakes or a badly formatted CV, you could be brilliant, but at best you've made the task harder than it needed to be, and at worst you've just landed in the automatically rejected pile.