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Pretty sad and depressing to watch, one thing I don't understand is the woman who got evicted after living in her house for 15 years (and I guess for the family of 6 too) and paying her mortgage for most of that.
The bank now owns the house and put it up for sale, the thing is that the house is worth around 3x what she bought it for, so does she get any money from the bank after the sale?
Because surely the bank is only entitled to clear the debt that she had left over to pay plus costs, and she is then due the rest?
It doesn't look like that is the way it works though!
Then why didn't she sell up before it got to that?
one thing I don't understand is the woman who got evicted after living in her house for 15 years (and I guess for the family of 6 too) and paying her mortgage for most of that.
The bank now owns the house and put it up for sale, the thing is that the house is worth around 3x what she bought it for, so does she get any money from the bank after the sale?
not if she was paying interest only!
OP - yes the sale clears her debts and she gets the rest.
Yeah, that's what I thought!
EDIT:
That reply was to b r
Sad, sad program.
Scary too, since two of the people were obviously pretty successful before it went wrong!
lightman - you've assumed she has not remortgaged (possibly several times) and released equity each time.
not if she was paying interest only!
Makes no difference. If its increased in value x3 since purchase, they can't possible owe more than 1/3 of its current value.
The mortgage company don't own the whole house, just the debt owing on it, which is the same as the amount borrowed to buy it if it was an interest only mortgage.
Aye. Pretty depressing.
On the good news front I see Will Self and Peter Hitchens are on Question time. Hopefully Will is in a bad mood : )
The woman was having a fairly tough time even without the eviction. Her husband had left her and she was fighting breast cancer, and only owed £9k.
It's a shame that the banks that were a major factor in getting the nation into the current indebted situation (and have behaved appallingly selling PPI and manipulating Libor rates) can't be a little more lenient in such circumstances. No-one wins as the council will have to find her housing, and the house was still for sale and would probably only be sold for well below its market value.
If people are taking the piss its fair enough to evict them, but many of the people in the programme had had an unfortunate set of circumstances such as unemployment and illness happen at the same time. We need to care more about people like this than bailing out the over-paid bankers.
It's a shame that the banks that were a major factor in getting the nation into the current indebted situation
That and those who borrowed more than they could afford and their assets were worth banking on low interest rates and no more boom and bust.
The house will be sold to clear the debt, the rest goes to her. However if the re mortgaged etc less will go to her.
How exactly does a banking system work if you are not obliged to meet repayments that you agreed to, who picks up the shortfall in these situations? Should all those paying on time have to pay more to cover those who don't/can't?
In all of this there will be some tough cases but these should be presented on facts.
That and those who borrowed more than they could afford and their assets were worth banking on low interest rates and no more boom and bust.The house will be sold to clear the debt, the rest goes to her. However if the re mortgaged etc less will go to her.
How exactly does a banking system work if you are not obliged to meet repayments that you agreed to, who picks up the shortfall in these situations? Should all those paying on time have to pay more to cover those who don't/can't?
In all of this there will be some tough cases but these should be presented on facts.
would probably only be sold for well below its market value.
It appears to currently have an offer of £170k on it, which I'd say is a pretty good price for an ex-council house in Dagenham. I'd guess it's been used as a bit of a cash machine although she could also have remortgaged it as part of a deal to keep the house when her husband left. As usual I suspect that in each of those cases there's as much of the story untold as told.
"How exactly does a banking system work if you are not obliged to meet repayments that you agreed to, who picks up the shortfall in these situations?"
er, yes; who indeed?
Of course, it's OK if it's the bank about to go tits up through overextending it's greed...
How exactly does a banking system work if you are not obliged to meet repayments that you agreed to, who picks up the shortfall in these situations?
Have you been asleep for the last few years?
It is all of us + unemployment + tax breaks for the rich + bankers still taking their bonuses.
[i]"How exactly does a banking system work if you are not obliged to meet repayments that you agreed to, who picks up the shortfall in these situations?"[/i]
One of the reasons that the crisis hit was that in the US you can just give the keys back, and the bank can't come to you for any shortfall. So as you can guess, with these 'rules' the last thing a bank should be doing is lending +90%, and what did they do?
I've never understood why 'poor' people always seam to have iphones, sky tv and new cars?!?
There are probably plenty of things you never understand. Why waste time thinking about them?
The family who bought their house relying on one main client in their business were utter fools... that's why we get into trouble. What are the chances of retaining a client for 20 years?
We bought our house at a range that either of us could pay on our individual earnings. I can't figure out why people stretch themselves to the limit to get a roof over their head. Stupidity, pride and greed.
I can't figure out why people stretch themselves to the limit to get a roof over their head.
Because for many many years people were sold a dream or permanently increasing equity and a fear of the affordability of housing always moving away from them.
If you were able to afford a family home on a single wage I guess you earn a fair wack more than average, or were very lucky with the timing of your purchase.
[i]What are the chances of retaining a client for 20 years?[/i]
Maybe lots of businesses expect to have more than one client over a 20 year period?
Missed the beginning but I'd do all I could to sell a house before it got repossesed. Ours would go on the market as soon as we could see we were going to struggle to meet payments and it would be at 'priced to sell' price too. From what I've seen repossesed properties end up going for very low prices compared with private sales as all the bank are interested in is recovering the mortgage value and even then they know they can persue the owner for any shortfall.
It's obvious that some people get emotionally overwhelmed when the bank starts turning on them and don't do all they can to manage the situation.
If owners promise the judge that they will put the property on the market and actively sell it at a fair market price, he will usually allow it, meaning the owner can stay in control of the situation.
Just don't piss the judge off afterwards by not doing it.
[i]Ours would go on the market as soon as we could see we were going to struggle to meet payments and it would be at 'priced to sell' price too. [/i]
What, at a loss? Easy statement to make if your house is worth far more than you paid, but for many this just isn't the case.
I can see why people hold out, as if you've no money the last thing you want to be is homeless - I mean, have you seen what it costs to rent, a couple of months rent up front for starters.
One problem is that the banks/Govt have managed to get people to believe that its 'reasonable' to pay 3-5% over the base rate, it use to be 0.5-1.5%.
[i]What, at a loss?[/i]
I really don't know, tbh.
Would I risk being 'voluntarily homeless' by selling the house out from underneath myself and being on the street with my family? Probably not.
It is easy to say 'It couldn't (or wouldn't) be me' I know.
It does appear (to me) that people end up in this position from not taking control of a situation early enough. Maybe my 'I'd sell up straight away' approach is too cut and dried but it does seem that people just get overwhelemed and swept along by 'events' when they could influence things far more.
I can't figure out why people stretch themselves to the limit to get a roof over their head.
Becase in the south a roof over your head pretty much costs the limit?
Even a 2 bed terrace in what's affectionately known as 'west reading' (aka Oxord Road) is £180k, it's ridiculous.
Easy statement to make if your house is worth far more than you paid, but for many this just isn't the case.
The people who made the programme must be aware that house sales data is public these days. In that particular case the guy appears to have paid 350k for the house, not the 500k reported in the programme. He should have been sitting on nearly 200k of equity. Once again the programme didn't give the whole story.
I had a house repossesed once upon a time in Liverpool. Basically i sectioned my ex-wife into a mental hospital, however when she came back out, she moved back into the house and wouldn't move out.
I eventually stopped paying the mortgage and she was evicted...
it screwed up my finances and credit stuff for many many years.
Hmmm, sad sad programme and just makes you think about what's important in life.
Still it seems in some of these cases that these people can't even do enough to help themselves?
The foul mouthed mother of the 6 x children seemed to be constantly smoking (not a cheap hobby as we know). The little boy described playing on his X-Box all day, the little girl left alone seemed to have her own mobile and they all seemed fond of expensive take away coffee's and getting taxi's everywhere!
The businessman whose house was being repossessed was still driving round in a big Lexus 4x4. They had also used the proceeds from their second car sale to fund Christmas - what about the mortgage?
Honestly, priorities people!
[i]The businessman whose house was being repossessed was still driving round in a big Lexus 4x4![/i]
and that I'd be on an expensive lease he probably can't get out of - no doubt up for repo too
and that I'd be on an expensive lease he probably can't get out of
Yep probably, but honestly should we really be feeling sorry for people who have borrowed themselves up to the eyeballs to get a big house and a nice car rather than living within their means?
Unfortunately it's this sort of crazy borrowing that has fueled the house price boom, and now left the majority of younger people unable to afford a place of their own due to the crazy asking prices of the current housing market.
Very little sympathy in this situation.
I bet it wouldn't have been long ago that businessman would have been claiming sucsess down to hard work, and blaming the rest of society's victims for their own problems and supposed laziness.
thisisnotaspoon - MemberI can't figure out why people stretch themselves to the limit to get a roof over their head.
Becase in the south a roof over your head pretty much costs the limit?
Even a 2 bed terrace in what's affectionately known as 'west reading' (aka Oxord Road) is £180k, it's ridiculous.
Do say where, a mate is struggling to find anything that's habitable round there for less than 200k
I had one behind (now ex)Rileys that sold for £160k in 2002.
Oh another note if you live local, once I'm allowed back on the bike I'm going to need to get fit again if you're interested in some riding.
SM
"In that particular case the guy appears to have paid 350k for the house, not the 500k reported in the programme"
Or he percieves its worth 500k because some valuation says so and wont let it go for a penny less .....
Do say where, a mate is struggling to find anything that's habitable round there for less than 200k
I had one behind (now ex)Rileys that sold for £160k in 2002.
Dunno, just looked on rightmove and that was the cheepest allong oxford road. Friends just bought a nice 2bed house in Whitley for similar money. No idea about habitable though.
It's stupid though, the average wage in Reading is apparently £30k, the cheepest hosues are £180k, so if you're below average and single you can't get a mortgage even at 5:1!
Oh another note if you live local, once I'm allowed back on the bike I'm going to need to get fit again if you're interested in some riding.SM
Drop me an e-mail, I usualy ride with the Trolls at Tunnel Hill Tues and Thurs evenings if you want a lift down there and either the Chilterns or Swinley depending on the weather at the weekends.
SM, my mate lives on Oxford road,.... i work not far.... i don't often ride there though, more over didcot way.
Drop me a mail though if you want fella.
there are three basic essentials to survive in our country,food, clothes and shelter. in this 'rich' developed economy, the system is unable/unwilling to provide the latter.
Back to the OP. are banks obliged to try and sell the property at the market rate if they repossess your home or is there no legal obligation for them to do so? In other words, sell the property for a price that is going to ensure they get their money back only?
"the system is unable/unwilling to provide the latter. "
no it provides it ..... but the ability to choose where you want to live is removed.....
my point is the systematic and ideological attack on social housing , has resulted in the present 'crisis'-- it is a very crude policy that seeks to enslave people to a 'mortgage' --that many cannot fulfil due to circumstances beyond their control.
[quote=fervouredimage ]Back to the OP. are banks obliged to try and sell the property at the market rate if they repossess your home or is there no legal obligation for them to do so? In other words, sell the property for a price that is going to ensure they get their money back only?
The "market rate" is only whatever you can get for it when you sell it.
From what I've seen ones in poor condition tend to go through auctions but OK ones go through estate agents. Agents would try to get a fair price but I don't suppose the banks haggle too much once they've got enough to cover their costs.
Thankfully estate agents aren't the kind of people who would take advantage of a situation where they knew a seller would probably accept a very low offer for a quick sale.
Three times in the past I've taken advantage of someones financial hardship (commecial not residential) and haggled them down on property, only for the estate agent to get wind of it and on each occasion a member of their staff 'bought' the property from under my nose.
Are you saying that someone employed by the agency selling the house bought it themselves? Sounds illegal if so!
Good job there's no recorded incidents of estate agents playing fast and loose with the law then, eh?
Probably got a third party to do it for them
Are you saying that someone employed by the agency selling the house bought it themselves? Sounds illegal if so!
One each occasion the next door neighbor of the guy who owned the estate agency bought the property. On one occasion the guy even had the cheek to offer to lease it too me as he was 'aware' I was interested in the site !!!
my point is the systematic and ideological attack on social housing, has resulted in the present 'crisis'-- it is a very crude policy that seeks to enslave people to a 'mortgage'
It could be said that our current approach to social housing is part of the problem. Social housing is needed, but for those that need it, not those that needed it once and then stay put on reduced rents stopping others from getting onto the ladder.
What we need is social housing that does not ghettoise (made up word) those dependant on it for shelter that does not become an ongoing burden on the state. We see a constant churn int he social housing stock. Once people get to the point where they do not warrant subsidised social housing they should have three options, stay where they put down roots and purchase the property from the social landlord at market rates (might be good for the social landlord to help with a deposit etc.), continue to live there paying commercial rent or move on. Either way the momeny generated should then be ploughed back into new social housing that is not huge estates. That way the housing is available to people who really need it, the social housing stock is renewed / expanded and we can start to reintegrate social housing back into the more affluent areas and break down the council estate ghettos.
Ironically Maggie started this process in the eighties, the only issues were that money was ring fenced and could not be used for new housing (which was morally wrong and plain stupid) and she was gerrymandering (which was illegal).
OI!! stumpyjon!!! Don't you be bloody well coming on here with your rational and reasoned analysis!
This place is going to the dogs!! 🙄
Further to your comments, hasn't this 'homes for life' aproach to social housing, resulted in a huge percentage of London properties being subsequently sub-let by their 'tenants' at a huge profit?
There's a report somewhere [not looking right now] that shows repo's typically sold for 15 - 20% below market value.
[quote=stumpyjon ]
Ironically Maggie started this process in the eighties, the only issues were that money was ring fenced and could not be used for new housing (which was morally wrong and plain stupid) and she was gerrymandering (which was illegal).
The good news is that the Labour government that followed her reversed the process, stopping council house sales and ensuring that councils had to rebuild their social housing stock.
Oh - wait.....
and that I'd be on an expensive lease he probably can't get out of - no doubt up for repo too
Na, it was an 04 or 54 plate, too old for a lease. (Probably, awaits story of 8 yr car leases 🙂 )
The good news is that the Labour government that followed her reversed the process, stopping council house sales and ensuring that councils had to rebuild their social housing stock.
I think your mistaking nu labour for the labour party, they were actually just tories with red ties.
I was lambasted a week ago in some other thread about social problems where I was 'yelled' at for suggesting that sort of thing occurs.
The sad thing is the banks are more than happy to do this, and people who aren't in trouble are more than happy to ignore it/pretend it doesn't happen UNTIL it happens to them.
Horrible how people are treated sometimes.
This is the 21st century for ****s sake and we still haven't solved homelessness!! WTF!
We can fly from gatwick to sydney, we can drive from dover to the south of france, we can cure once incurable diseases, we live longer than ever before, we have a robot on mars - but we can't keep families off the street 🙁
As opposed to the present labour party, which is doing its best to about be as electorally relevant as Oswald Mosely's black shirts
It was refreshing to see Wallace addressing the pressing issues of the day, and giving a speech on not giving public sector jobs to people who can't speak English
I know its a massive problem, that effects millions, and a topic that's been troubling me for some time. I've lost sleep
This is the 21st century for **** sake and we still haven't solved homelessness!! WTF!
Its worse than that! We're going backwards, at a rate of knots! We've got soup kitchens feeding people on wages so low they can't afford to eat! And a bunch of braying buffoons in charge who literally couldn't care less. Here they are delivering the news that they're cutting benefits to the very poorest in society
We can fly from gatwick to sydney, we can drive from dover to the south of france, we can cure once incurable diseases, we live longer than ever before, we have a robot on mars - but we can't keep families off the street
we COULD... but if they're lazy good for nothings who aren't willing to work/contribute then why should we ??
The good news is that the Labour government that followed her reversed the process, stopping council house sales and ensuring that councils had to rebuild their social housing stock.
No, they didn't - the scheme stayed in place with a cap on the discount of ~£40K IIRC
we COULD... but if they're lazy good for nothings who aren't willing to work/contribute then why should we ??
That's not who I was talking about, but I can't speak for others. Did you even watch the program?
Its worse than that! We're going backwards, at a rate of knots!
hmmm. You may well be right.
I've lost my job during in 2008 and know all too well how quickly pretty much everything you took for granted starts to fall apart, but i think at least part of the problem is the difficulty in realising its happening.
The stress can be overwhelming, a priority number one is finding another job which can take more time than actually going to work. This makes it difficult to manage the situation in the most rational way. Seeing other solutions like selling the house, remortgaging, renting out the house and moving into a friends house, bedsit or house share can be difficult when you've got so much on your mind. And before you realise the situation is serious enough to warrant these measures, its too late. I can't imagine how much worse it is with a family.
The program didn't seem to cover these issues though, more of a look at the "human side" of events once its too late.
[Are you saying that someone employed by the agency selling the house bought it themselves? Sounds illegal if so!]
there was an employee at a local major bank/estate agent in my town, that, between him and a solicitor friend, managed to purchase a lot (100+) of undervalued property in the mid 90's
he valued them low and his "friend" bought them to rent, he got caught and got asked to leave with a golden hand shake(£250k)
i have a few properties i rent and i wouldn't trust any of them!
I've lost my job during in 2008 and know all too well how quickly pretty much everything you took for granted starts to fall apart, but i think at least part of the problem is the difficulty in realising its happening.
Can happen to anyone. In 2007 I went from highly successful executive to unemployed gibbering wreck in a matter of a few weeks. All due to work induced stress resulting in a nervous breakdown - was quite a humbling experience. It's quite amazing how everything can collapse so quickly and you can do nothing to stop it. Has taken several years to get back to where I was and only thanks to our Social Safety Net (in this case the NHS) and my family. If I hadn't had my parents to fall back on I could easily be on the streets now as a homeless object of hatred for the Conservative party.
That's not who I was talking about, but I can't speak for others. Did you even watch the program?
Yes, however i did miss the first 15 mins.
TBH, apart from one bloke with the family, no-one else seemed to work. When the Investment banker went into the hostel it was full of crack heads... I doubt they're looking for work.
How about Mr Investment banker gets a job in a bar in the evenings and a job in the day stacking shelves in Tesco, i bet he wouldn't need a shared housing association type place.
How much does a bus driver in London earn? 30-35k?Plus his missus could work part time as the kids looked school age
I'm sure they could rent privately with an income touching 40k surely
How about Mr Investment banker gets a job in a bar in the evenings and a job in the day stacking shelves in Tesco, i bet he wouldn't need a shared housing association type place.
Have you tried this from being an ex-professional? You appear to have no idea.
I have tried and if you have tertiary/professional qualifications you won't get a look in. Those jobs go to workfare clients of the job centre or those that the supermarket don't think will cause them problems by leaving when things pick up.
17 months unemployed from 2008 to early 2010, I reckon it is worse now.
Have you tried this from being an ex-professional? You appear to have no idea.I have tried and if you have tertiary/professional qualifications you won't get a look in. Those jobs go to workfare clients of the job centre or those that the supermarket don't think will cause them problems by leaving when things pick up.
17 months unemployed from 2008 to early 2010, I reckon it is worse now
No, but i find it hard to believe i can't walk into one of the many bars in Reading/Oxford who have "wanted, bar staff" etc signs in tht window and being refused for being over-qualified. I may be wrong as i've not had to... but it would suprise me.
Sandwich - MemberHave you tried this from being an ex-professional? You appear to have no idea.
I did.
Went from being a manager in a precision engineering company to working for minimum wage.
Went from living in a three bed semi by myself to a house share.
Rent and bills (ex food) was costing me £175 per month.
This wasn't in some grotty sink estate, it was in a nice old market town.
I've known few others that have slid down the ladder to avoid being a burden though. Most simply don't try.
The last Thatcherite scum government used mass unemployment,poverty and homelessnes as a method of ruling class discipline. Why did any of you think it would be any different this time round.
I honestly believe anyone that wants help and wants to get off the street will not only find help but will be able to stay off the streets and get work.
If anyone can provide a real example of someone who has tried hard and worked to get a roof over their head somehow, and been let down by our government/councils/society to the point they are sleeping outdoors begging for a living, then please share details.
I honestly believe anyone that wants help and wants to get off the street will not only find help but will be able to stay off the streets and get work.
please expand on your thesis, it does intrigue me and probably others, maybe your after some govt tsar position ?
Some people on here seem to inhabit a different Universe!
The programme was incredibly shocking but I feel that it gave a balanced view. For example, the (large) family failed to deal with various communications from the Council hence ending up where they did. The father was working hard, give him his due. I think they genuinely needed some support and help with life skills.
And, yes, please answer rudebwoy's pertinent question.
Why? Do you disagree?
Anyone willing to work hard and take responsibility for their own life won't struggle in the way lazy *bleeps* do. And can either of you provide any examples to the contrary?
* shakes head *
Try asking my son the same question! When he left Uni with a proper degree, how long did it take him to find employment?
Employers with menial jobs to offer wouldn't talk to him cos they knew that he'd be outta there as soon as something/anything better came along.
Edit: ooh cheeky disappearing post, NOT!
Cg is he homeless? That's what this is about
OK take the example of the chap who'd run his own company abroad. We didn't hear the finer detail but he came across as reasonably intelligent and sensible. Forced to live in a local park for a few weeks 🙁
How is that right?
glasgowdan-- you answer a question with a question, your belief that anyone can help themselves,is an old ruling class joke, but if you would care to explain your ideas and theories of social welfare, we are all eyes !
monkeycmonkeydo - MemberThe last Thatcherite scum government used mass unemployment,poverty and homelessnes as a method of ruling class discipline. Why did any of you think it would be any different this time round.
So I take it you have a job now we haven't had a conservative government for some time?
cinnamon_girl - MemberTry asking my son the same question! When he left Uni with a proper degree, how long did it take him to find employment?
Employers with menial jobs to offer wouldn't talk to him cos they knew that he'd be outta there as soon as something/anything better came along.
So he got a degree but still wasn't intelligent enough to "tailor" his CV for specific jobs?
I could show you two of my CVs and you wouldn't know they were for the same person, which was exactly the idea.
I honestly believe anyone that wants help and wants to get off the street will not only find help but will be able to stay off the streets and get work.please expand on your thesis, it does intrigue me and probably others, maybe your after some govt tsar position ?
In Brighton there is a burgeoning population of 'homeless' people. All of whom have been approached by the rough sleepers team who work for the council. If they have local connections they are offered a place over their heads. If they are not local then they are offered a train/bus ticket to where they are from and the council WILL accomodate them. Some accept the offer, some don't. However if they are willing to accept there is always housing. It may not be in trendy Brighton, it may be in Eastbourne, but there is housing.
I have asked a number of beggars why they beg, and they always quote a lack of jobs. When I point out that there is a high percentage of foreign workers in hotels and the service sector and that there are always cleaning jobs etc available I get the response that they don't want to be cleaners or on minimum wage..
This has made me somewhat cycnical but there is help out there.
Stop throwing pearls at the swine CG,their minds are closed just like their wallets.
OK take the example of the chap who'd run his own company abroad. We didn't hear the finer detail but he came across as reasonably intelligent and sensible. Forced to live in a local park for a few weeksHow is that right?
Feel very sorry for this poor chap but he didn't really seem to be trying to help himself did he? Was he knocking on the door of every place looking for work? No, he was relying completely on other people to sort himself out and holding out for someone to employ him again as an investment banker. Not sure how realistic this was when he seemed unable to look after his own money and company.
The young of today find themselves in a difficult situation and there are less jobs around at the moment. But with the internet and easy access to the rest of the world there are also more opportunities out there than we ever had when we were young.
Finding a job in this competitive world is not about sending your standard CV off to the same adverts as everyone else. It's about offering to work for free for a few weeks to get your foot in the door. It's about going to companies and meeting the people that could give you a job - face to face. It's about doing something a bit different to what everyone else is doing so that you stand out. Half the time it's about doing what you actually say you will (turning up on time and being reliable and trustworthy). And when you do hand across your CV it needs to be tailored for each job you apply.
I recently spent about 6 months without a proper job after being laid off. Did I sit around sulking? Well for two weeks I did before picking myself up and signing up with an agency who placed temporary staff. I ended up working in warehouses, driving vans, washing dishes, waiting on, typing data into computers - all sh*t jobs but so much better that sitting around complaining that there wern't any jobs. To top it off I got paid reasonably okay, and got loads of unique experience in the bargain.
What about starting a business? You don't need to be a genius to become a gardener or set up a car valeting service? What about going abroad to find work?
Christ - anyone who sits on their arse and whinges that there's no work out there needs a bit of a wake up call.
some of you really do live in a parallel universe, yeah its easy setting up a gardening business-- you need a few quid for tools, a vehicle, an address, phone no, oh and some contacts, and er some idea about gardening-- i take it you are being sarcastic ?