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Oakleymuppet. At great expense with a horrid beurocratic process and give up her French citizenship
Dual nationality not allowed in France?
It’s about 1800 quid to do it, my wife did it but her country allows dual nationality.
Edit: France has allowed dual nationality for several decades.
I suspect the government will end up using EU citizens in the UK as bargaining pieces in the years to come. Give us what we want or we start removing their citizenship.
They won't give two figs about the UK "ex pats", in fact they will likely to be "othered" by then. Traitors, living in the EU.
Anyone think the government are above this? They definitely aren't.
I would also add that this government has displayed its arrogance by trolling their own electorate during a pandemic because they knew they'd get away with it.
World-beating track and trace? World-beating bullshit more like. But they knew they'd get away with it. They've based their entire strategy on weaponising stupidity, so why stop.
Cummings sitting in the 'rose garden' looking straight into the camera and telling a pack of lies? No problem, the idiots will believe us.
Wrap it up in some jingoistic bullshit and they know they'll get away with it. Their contempt for their support is brazen, but much of their support is too stupid to realise it.
If your entire 'success' is based on weaponising stupidity then there really is no reason to change tack.
Unfortunately 17 odd million people decided the country I liked living in wasn’t insular enough
I've seen many great descriptions of the Brexit debacle, but that is brilliant
Oakleymuppet. At great expense with a horrid beurocratic process and give up her French citizenship
She doesn't need to give it up. She can go dual.
Like wot my burd did.
i am considering a crowd funding campaign to fund a UK citizenship for myself, so i at least can vote against the Tories at next election.
Luckily Denmark changed the law some years back so allow dual citizenship.
You say they should not propose to seek to improve on the arrangements signed off on last year
You’ve imagined this as I said nothing of the sort. I said need labour need to set out how they will make a success of being outside of the EU whilst protecting themselves from voters thinking they’re trying to go back in via the back door. Improvements to the existing deal may involve more or less alignment, possibly more in some areas and less in others. But more alignment involves significant political risk which they should avoid. If they become the rejoin party they won’t win another election.
^^oh thank you Brexit 😁
Loling my cock off at Brookes
If they become the rejoin party they won’t win another election.
No skin off my nose. It's not like it's a run of consistent success they'll be ending....
... Or are you suggesting they lie, pretend NOT to be the rejoin party, win the election and just rejoin anyway? It's a plan - it's not like being utterly removed from the truth has done the ****ing Tories any harm.
On the contrary, any inkling of ‘closer ties’ will allow accusations that labour want to take us back in through the back door, through undemocratic means. They need to be enthusiastic cheerleaders of the potential advantages of being out, attack the tories on their failure to make brexit the success they said it would be, and persuade people how labour can do it better. That’s going to be very hard for remainers to accept, but it’s the only hope labour have of turning the issue to their advantage, and probably the only hope of winning an election any time soon.
So Dazh… no ‘closer ties’? And when do you start to detail the potential advantages of being out, and who they benefit, and how?
Given that a large majority in the UK think brexit a mistake then a remain party will gather votes
There are no potential advantages in being out of the eu
a remain party will gather votes
No, a party that seeks to rebuild our relationship with the EU, but as non-member, will win votes from both “Remainers” and the majority of “Leavers” who want just that, the UK working well with the countries of Europe, but not in the EU.
Scotland aside, where rejoin will be a political force. It won’t be South of the border.
Regarding Brooks..... What a superb metaphor for Brexit as a whole.👍
Why? They are a business. Petulence shouldn’t even come into it.
Have you never worked with the Dutch, they're just say it as it is.
Shamelessly stolen from the comments section under The Guardian's daily cartoon:
We left the real life,
For Brexit fantasy.
Election landslide
Then Brexit reality
Opened your eyes,
Exposed the lies you see.
I was a poor boy,
Fisherman's family,
Now I've sleazy chums, sleazy dough,
They go high, we go low.
Any way the wind blows, arguments made flexibly, flexiblee..Mama, we just kicked the can,
Thought we held all the cards,
Have to deal with customs guards.
Mama, Brexit's just begun,
But now our red lines threw it all away.
Mama, ooh,
Didn't mean to tell those lies,
If food's not back in store this time tomorrow,
Carry on, carry on,
It's not like it really matters.Too late, we doubled down,
Can't back out or they'll whine,
Over-promised at the time.
Goodbye everybody, never thought we'd win,
Gonna leave you all behind to face the truth.
Mama, ooh (any way the wind blows)
Tired of all the lies,
I sometimes wish I'd never campaigned at all.I see a little silhouetto of a Johnson,
Dominic, Dominic, will you do the Farage-ango?
Thunderbolt and lightning, Unicorns are frightening... me
Barniero, Barniero,
Barniero, Barniero,
Barniero, Barniero, Angela-No!
I was just a poor boy, nobody loved me.
He was just a poor boy! From a fishy family!
He and his wife created monstrosity!
Sleazy chums, sleazy dough, Daily Mail press merry-go!
Ursula! No! They will use the veto (don't veto)
Ursula! No! They will use the veto (don't veto)
Ursula! No! They will use the veto (don't veto)
They will use the veto (don't veto)
Never, never, never, never veto
No, no, no, no, no, no, no
Oh, mama mia, mama mia,
Mama mia, don't veto!
Donald Tusk has a special place in hell for me
For me, For.. meeee!
So you think you can no deal and spit in my eye?
Public opinion would hang us all out to dry!
Oh, baby,
Can't do this to me, baby,
Gotta find a way out, gotta find a way outta here!Nothing really matters,
Anyone can see,
Nothing really matters,
Nothing really matters... at least to me!
Any way the wind blows.With a nod & homage to Queen. 🙂
Just too good to not share.
Having posted to Ireland to my son. It won’t be long before the form-filling starts to tire pretty quickly. We’ll be renegotiating again. I was accepting of a Norway-style EEA deal. Looks like Brookes were too.
So Brookes moved their distribution to Italy to save money and 4 years notice wasn’t sufficient for them to make alternative arrangements....?
If your business is UK luxury goods Brexit should be a godsend. The US,China and Asia lap up our goods.
Probably just move their manufacturing to Italy too then.
Posh Italian stuff tends to sell well.
Probably just move their manufacturing to Italy too then.
Posh Italian stuff tends to sell well.
Yep. Good tradition of excellent leather goods in Italy.
Brexit really is monumentally ****ing stupid.
🙊
Tbh I would if I was the CEO.
Europe’s the bigger market so lots of savings by moving the outfit to the continent. Plus less political risk.
Just joined the "buy British for brexit" FB group to do a bit of trolling
And when do you start to detail the potential advantages of being out
Well surprisingly I haven't spent an awful lot of time thinking about the advantages because I wanted to stay in and was happy to accept some of the negatives in exchange for the wider benefits, but off the top of my head...
- The end of CAP and the ridiculous policy of paying farmers on the amount of land they manage which encourages habitat destruction. We could instead pay them rewild unusable land or use it for other purposes.
- The unrestrained ability to provide state aid for industry as part of a comprehensive industrial strategy to rebuild the UK's manufacturing base and rebalance the economy from the existing bias towards services and finance.
- Provide more transparent and accountable governance so that voters can easily understand and see what is being done in their name and how it affects them. This will rebuild trust between people and politicians, and provide greater democratic legitimacy.
- Use UK govt procurement to support and stimulate british business. The government is the single largest procurer of goods and services in the economy, it common sense for it to use that power to the benefit of the UK economy.
So Brookes moved their distribution to Italy to save money
And get rid of ridiculous stuff such as this which pointlessly burns carbon by sending goods on journeys of thousands of miles instead of a few.
That's just 3 very quick ones, that required very little thinking, which all could provide huge positive change across the entire country. I'm sure though that the policy geeks in the labour party and other organisations can come up with many more.
And please don't bother with the usual rehash of the brexit arguments and pros and cons. I'm not interested because they're now irrelevant. The debate now is not whether EU membership is good or bad for the UK, it's how to now make the best of our new position. So stop thinking about what you've lost, and start thinking about what you might gain and how to make it happen.
Regarding Brooks….. What a superb metaphor for Brexit as a whole
It is.
See also a toddler shitting his or her pants at the end of an epic tantrum then waiting for an adult to clean them up.
– The unrestrained ability to provide state aid for industry as part of a comprehensive industrial strategy to rebuild the UK’s manufacturing base and rebalance the economy from the existing bias towards services and finance.
But we have signed up to an agreement which restricts state aid in the guise of a level playing field
Vote remain = you lost (i.e. you are a loser!)
Supported Jeremy Corbyn = loser (he always wanted to leave anyway)
Continue to support labour = now supporting the Brexit deal?
It’s depressing....
Forget dry January. Hit the hard stuff! 🤣
No need to feel bad dazh- seems like Tice’s bird can’t come up with any benefits either
The unrestrained ability to provide state aid for industry
Has never read a trade agreement, or understands why the majority of punitive tariffs are sanctioned by the WTO. Or is suggesting that we leave the WTO, tear up all our current trade agreements, including the one with the EU, and avoid signing any new ones.
Also needs to look at CAP as it is now, not in the early 90s.
Also needs to read what the USA and others say they want as regards state procurement rules before they will sign deals.
As for transparency… I have no idea why that’s more rather than less likely now.
– The end of CAP and the ridiculous policy of paying farmers on the amount of land they manage which encourages habitat destruction. We could instead pay them rewild unusable land or use it for other purposes.
Good luck with that. Massive food price hikes and more importation.
– The unrestrained ability to provide state aid for industry as part of a comprehensive industrial strategy to rebuild the UK’s manufacturing base and rebalance the economy from the existing bias towards services and finance.
Good luck with that, we still have to commit to the level playing field.
– Use UK govt procurement to support and stimulate british business. The government is the single largest procurer of goods and services in the economy, it common sense for it to use that power to the benefit of the UK economy.
Uk governments military procurement and Catapult program is an abject failure. If you ever actually worked in a government directed industrial initiative you’d commit seppuku. Personally, I was considering boarding a flight to Papua New Guinea, getting naked and taking a huge dose of opiates before jumping into a Gympie-gympie bush.
– Provide more transparent and accountable governance so that voters can easily understand and see what is being done in their name and how it affects them. This will rebuild trust between people and politicians, and provide greater democratic legitimacy.
Hahahah.
Thatscold
Vote remain = you lost (i.e. you are a loser!)
Supported Jeremy Corbyn = loser (he always wanted to leave anyway)
Continue to support labour = now supporting the Brexit deal?It’s depressing….
Forget dry January. Hit the hard stuff!
I’ve lost many times. Doesn’t bother me.
You just sit down and start working out how to win next time.
Mainly dry these days anyway. Nice bit of whisky over Christmas, the odd glass of Taittinger (prefer it to some other Champagnes, but I’m more Bordeaux or Côtes du Rhône really). But that’s unusual these days - nice AF pale ale tonight.
Some fanciful ideas, many on the supposition that we have ‘experts’ in Government who have the ability to develop and implement industrial policy - something the UK has categorically failed to do in the last 40 years on the basis of “letting the market decide” of free market capitalism. Having worked with many civil servants, academics and advisors who are totally bereft of any understanding of what “industry” looks like through their revolving door. The evidence of this is the continual failure of procurement on many major projects - over optimism, failure to identify and manage risk (because it inflates the bid price). Good luck if you think these people can be trusted with billions of taxpayers’ money in the interests of regenerating the economy before the Tory cronies have got their grubby hands on it.
Vote remain = you lost (i.e. you are a loser!)
Supported Jeremy Corbyn = loser (he always wanted to leave anyway)
Continue to support labour = now supporting the Brexit deal?It’s depressing….
Forget dry January. Hit the hard stuff!
Ah, just another silly little troll, then.
What are the benefits of Brexit as you see them?
Or we could try another tack...
How much national humiliation and hardship will it take for the losers leavers to realise their cretinous experiment with substance-less petty nationalism is doomed?
Really, that is all that is left to debate.
Unavailability of some items that may be luxuries to some, but essential to others?
What % of price rises across the board?
How many international slapdowns?
Or is it actual defeat on a battlefield you are aiming for?
But however far it goes, however precipitous the fall has to be, this ridiculous experiment in nationalism from a post-colonial pipsqueak is doomed to fail.
You say remainers are losers because of the result. Unfortunately you are correct. But you missed the point that Leavers were losers to start with. Hence the attitude.
Long live the EU.
🇪🇺🇪🇺🇪🇺
We should all watch this video. Whatever you think of it, abject sadness or some kind of 'pride', we should all watch this. This 44 second clip has cost us at least £100bn. Every year. You would have thought we could at least have stumped up to send a couple of Beefeaters to have the flag handed to them.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Esn_OHa_cDg
A shameful moment in an endless procession of shameful moments.
How much national humiliation and hardship will it take for the losers leavers to realise their cretinous experiment with substance-less petty nationalism is doomed?
Not long but t will be the fault of remoaners, experts, journalists, civil service, brown people etc etc etc. No shortage of bogeymen.
Not long but t will be the fault of remoaners, experts, journalists, civil service, brown people etc etc etc. No shortage of bogeymen.
Well if they can still blame others they haven't realised.
I don't want the kicking we are going to get at all really. But the Leavers have made it inevitable. So, if we really have to go down this route, I want the kicking to be hard enough to bury this polystyrene nationalism for a long time. If people can't have it spelled out for them, if they really have to have their fantasies dispelled by actual hardship, then so be it.
The only underlying main theme that needs to be addressed now it 'what is it going to take to make you realise?'
Some fanciful ideas, many on the supposition that we have ‘experts’ in Government who have the ability to develop and implement industrial policy
They're not fanciful, they're entirely realistic and sensible, and something mainstream left of centre politicians and commentators have been calling for for decades. Judging from the few empty responses to my suggestioons, the view seems to be that these things are impossible or too extreme. The defeatism and lack of imagination is clearly worse than I thought. It's pathetic quite frankly, and only goes to reinforce my suspicion that many remainers have become so fixated on EU membership that they are unable to imagine anything else, which is pretty stupid because of all the things that might be possible or impossible, right now EU membership is at the very bottom of the list.
But we have signed up to an agreement which restricts state aid in the guise of a level playing field
Hence why I said it might involve greater divergence rather than alignment. You all assume that the existing agreement is a base from which we will start to rejoin, when in fact it's probably the oppoosite. The negotiations over the next 5, 10 or however many years it takes will be focused on which areas require more alignment, and which require divergence.
So, if we really have to go down this route, I want the kicking to be hard enough
So you're response to losing the campaign to remain in the EU is the wish for a scorched earth policy to cause as much hardship and suffering as possible? That's just f***** deranged quite frankly, and the primary reason why people like yourself will in time be seen to be as dangerous and self-serving as the brexiteers themselves.
You all assume that the existing agreement is a base from which we will start to rejoin
Well, I made it clear that I do not (well, for England&Wales anyway). But I’m glad you accept that our relationship with the other countries of Europe is going to be changing, and that Labour can’t leave the other parties to propose how, and just sit back and pretend that the deal signed last year means the issue has been put to bed. If your proposition is greater divergence, I suspect the Labour Party will disappoint you. I’d be interested in which areas you think they should propose further divergence though. Just a slither of detail would be nice… and try doing so without insulting everyone else, please. Ideas not rage, if you could be so kind. We know you can do it.
FISH. Food standards. Those are the first two I can think off that the Tories will be eyeing up. Should Labour nod them through, understanding what will have to be lost as regards both EU reciprocation and distancing both NI and Scotland further from rUK? Or should they have their own divergence priorities… if so, what, and who benefits, and how?
Dannyh i am 58 years old, i accept that we will not rejoin the EU in my lifetime if ever. I also agree that future negotiations will diverge the UK away from the EU.
I have created businesses, jobs and millons of pounds in Tax - this has taken energy, huge personal financial risk and a broad understanding of a social contract that extended to many benefits including the EU a tax regime that rewarded entrepreneurs.
Most of this social contract has been removed via brexit, no help for Directors being rewarded via dividends etc etc. We are about to be taxed into oblivion by Rishi and ordinary folks will be subject to Austerity.
I will not support this government or the *ing idiots that voted for this self harm. More than that i am retrenching my business that means no rent for my landlord, no business rates for my council, no pies or sandwiche sales near the office, no new hires(two less IT grads last year and two less this year) my rabid Brexiteer contractor is getting no more work. I have moved my tax avoidance plan from neutral(i.e i pay everything that is due and anything i feel we have avoided we make a contribution to charity) to aggressive as these *s don't deserve the tax take.
If this makes me a selfish, bitter remoaner then so be it.
My pub my rules.
I want the kicking to be hard enough to bury this polystyrene nationalism for a long time
One other point on this, if you think the working class/ordinary people getting a kicking from brexit will bury far right nationalism then you're barking up the wrong tree. It will make it worse, because far right sentiment is fuelled by economic insecurity and political disenfranchisement, so be careful what you wish for.
It will make it worse, because far right sentiment is fuelled by economic insecurity and political disenfranchisement, so be careful what you wish for.
I agree.
Judging from the few empty responses to my suggestioons, the view seems to be that these things are impossible or too extreme.
You do understand irony, right?
One other point on this, if you think the working class/ordinary people getting a kicking from brexit will bury far right nationalism then you’re barking up the wrong tree. It will make it worse, because far right sentiment is fuelled by economic insecurity and political disenfranchisement, so be careful what you wish for.
So it ends on a battlefield, then.
I’d be interested in which areas you think they should propose further divergence though.
The issue of state aid is the biggest issue. If brexit is to be worth anything it's the ability to rebuild our manufacturing base, and that's going to require a huge amount of governemnt investment and support. If we have to diverge more in order to make that happen then that's what we should do. I don't know if it will require greater divergence to be honest, but one way or the other it has to happen.
So it ends on a battlefield, then.
Like I said, deranged. Get a grip FFS.
It’s a Pandora’s box that’s been happily opened.
If brexit is to be worth anything it’s the ability to rebuild our manufacturing base, and that’s going to require a huge amount of governemnt investment and support.
Right, cos building up industry, levelling up the regions, supporting the NHS were all impossible as part of the EU. Cobblers.
Rebuilding a manufacturing base? That ship sailed 30 yrs ago. We already excel at the smaller hi-tech specialist end of the market, but that is limited, but to get back to where we were 60-70 years ago is just not going to happen. If you think the state is going to help out as well, think again.
Imagine if there were EU countries we could point to that have invested more heavily to maintain and grow their manufacturing base. I’d keep on eye on how the USA and others act towards the EU (and now us) when they think our support for manufacturing is uncompetitive. You need to acknowledge what the real limits are as regards supporting industry… it is not the EU.
If brexit is to be worth anything it’s the ability to rebuild our manufacturing base
We actually do already make stuff here.
I worked in shoe manufacturing, didn’t take long for a big shoe factory to be worth more as a housing estate and poof it was.
I also vaguely remember the gov not supporting the eu when the Chinese were flooding the market with cheap steel.
Global manufacturing an all that isn’t going to disappear overnight just because we’ve got a bright future ahead 🙂
Only way I think we’ll support manufacturing is in tax regulations that make us the idea place to be the Corporate headquarters.
Excuse my scepticism I’d be really happy to be proved wrong.
Re-build manufacturing? Dream-on...I've spent most of my career in engineering and manufacturing and at the end of it trying to work with Government to invest in skills and capabilities. The UK does have some world-leading capabilities in aerospace and advanced engineering but ironically, one of the biggest impediments to growth is we don't have enough people with the right skills and an increasing dependence on immigrants. I worked on projects of national importance where if it wasn't for Poles and Slovaks, we'd be stuffed. We can no longer build our own power stations because we're over-reliant on foreign investment and skills. I could give countless examples, the irony being it wasn't the EU that stopped us, simply a short-term attitude to investment by business owners and Government who'd rather give tax-cuts to wealthy pensioners rather than invest in infrastructure.
Right, cos building up industry, levelling up the regions, supporting the NHS were all impossible as part of the EU. Cobblers.
But now 'we' have elected a far-right splinter group of the Tories, with people like Robert 'Honest Bob' Jenrick in the forefront of economic policy, it is all going to get so much more equitable....
They've just got to stop laughing their tits off at the notion that 'the great unwashed' (as the tories call their 'new support' behind their backs) actually voted for them. Then I'm sure they'll start 'levelling up'. Absolutely no chance that they'll enrich themselves and their mates off of the back of the Brexit Recession (let's call it 'Brecession')....
Go on daz, tell us another....
🙈
Re-build manufacturing? Dream-on…
This +100. It's all well and good talking about how we'll be able to do great trade deals with other countries and emerging markets, but what have we got to trade?
Surely it is likely that some things will become economical to make in the UK because we will have to pay so much more to import stuff. I can't see it as a way to save our broken economy but there must be some small benefits for some sectors.
This +100. It’s all well and good talking about how we’ll be able to do great trade deals with other countries and emerging markets, but what have we got to trade?
Astons,Bentlys,Land Rovers, Jaaaags an JCBs 🙂
What about the plants those brands have in Austria, Germany & Slovakia (and further afield)?
What about the plants those brands have in Austria, Germany & Slovakia (and further afield)?
They won’t have a made in GB sticker on them so will be less desirable 🙂
grum
Surely it is likely that some things will become economical to make in the UK because we will have to pay so much more to import stuff
Advocating protectionism? But Brexit was about global free trade, getting away from the protectionist EU.
Advocating protectionism? But Brexit was about global free trade, getting away from the protectionist EU.
Let's face it. For millions of Leave voters it was bugger all to do with anything other than petty xenophobia.
Well surprisingly I haven’t spent an awful lot of time thinking about the advantages because I wanted to stay in
...
start thinking about what you might gain
But this is a question we've been asking for four years, with little sensible response. Might I suggest you take your own advice and let us know what you come up with?
a comprehensive industrial strategy to rebuild the UK’s manufacturing base
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
You really are just trolling, aren't you. You cannot seriously believe that that's a credible option.
Advocating protectionism? But Brexit was about global free trade, getting away from the protectionist EU.
You aren’t understanding the difference.
1. EU = lefty muslim globalist marxist Jewish Lizard protectionist racket disguised as a single market with a few protections
vs
2. Post-Brexit UK = Proper Nationalism with a ‘not globalist’ global ‘free market’ all sourced and made in Britain by Proper British and not by or from our evolving ‘not globalist’ global ‘free market’ trading partners.
Easy when you say it loud.
Always makes me giggle.... industrial strategy..... levelling up.......
We are now out in the big bad world, a world dominated by China, America and the EU. We are so piss poor by comparison (not talking GDP talking cash) it is truly frightening.
We can not compete on our own at this level, its corner shop v Tesco. We will be ruined by automation and debt.
its corner shop v Tesco
i only recently found that most of our local corner shops are actually rebadged Tescos. That’s in addition to the Tesco mini market down the road that ‘ ‘competes’ with the rebadged ones. It’s like Inception vs Monopoly. Since Covid they pretty much own online groceries with not only the largest share of UK online groceries but almost doubling that of Asda at number 2.
The defeatism and lack of imagination is clearly worse than I thought.
Mate this is bordering on insulting now. I have plenty of imagination. I've thought a great deal about the roots of our problems, and I have solutions. I've talked a out them many times on this thread and others.
The problem is that talking about it isn't enough. How do I implement them? I just don't know. Do you?
You talk about how we could rebuild manufacturing and become a world leader in green tech etc etc and yes, we COULD. We're all aware of this. But most of us don't think it's going to happen for decades if ever, because of the political climate. So.acxusing us of lacking imagination is just spurious. Us sitting here imaginig how we want the country to move forward isn't going to help a fat lot. We do imagine it, then we realise why it's never going to happen. How do we get around that? Give us your solutions. How do we get the UK to vote for what you propose?
Astons, Bentleys, and JCBs etc. Am I correct in thinking you could only sell them in the EU up until a few days ago? Sorry, I'm being a bit of a dick. We successfully sold them all over the world didn't we? There weren't any obstructions were there, to selling in the global market? Are we going to sell more now? Not just these examples, but all the other stuff we make?
Somebody remind me again, why?
Also, my friend the Doctor, he hasn't seen a big cheque for £350 million yet. Silly me, its a weekend, and it's been christmas.I'll ring him tomorrow.
Having had time to digest the deal I'd like to thank Michel Barnier for his excellent work in defending my interests as a French national and EU citizen. It looks like 6 years of pensions contributions I'd thought I'd lose will be counted after all. Why the UK negotioators gave up so easily on the banking passport/services but gave us the right to sell all our flash cars and yummy food to you I have no idea.
As a British citizen (even though I haven't managed to convince anyone in Britain I'm British for well over a decade because how am I supposed to with neither an identity card, valid passport nor address?), I was heartened by Dominique Grieve on France 24 earlier, a europhile British politician who clearly understands the issues and can express them in excellent French. I'll watch his political career with interest, can an enlightened pragmatist survive in British politics?
andy8442
Free Member
Astons, Bentleys, and JCBs etc. Am I correct in thinking you could only sell them in the EU up until a few days ago? Sorry, I’m being a bit of a dick. We successfully sold them all over the world didn’t we? There weren’t any obstructions were there, to selling in the global market? Are we going to sell more now? Not just these examples, but all the other stuff we make?
Andy, I work for a British manufacturer of industrial equipment. Like the vast majority of British manufacturing companies we source almost all of our components from the Far East and simply assemble them in the UK. The biggest market for our UK assembled products is Europe. We had a communication from the company recently to say that our products will incur significant increases in net tariffs and that the company will absorb these costs for Q1 2021 and then re-assess. It would not surprise me one bit if the UK plant was replaced by one in Europe.
Some of the prestige companies (Aston. Bentley etc) will survive with a price hike because people want them no matter what. The industrial/consumer market is incredibly cut-throat and increases in overheads cannot be passed to the customer on because it makes a product uncompetitive.
We cannot start sourcing components from the UK because that would also be too expensive so companies like mine are pretty screwed.
The problem is that talking about it isn’t enough. How do I implement them? I just don’t know. Do you?
Really not sure why you feel insulted by the suggestion that UK will be able to do some things outside the EU which it couldn’t before, it’s just a simple fact. And I’ve never said any single person can change anything. What I don’t really get though is the general unchallengeable view on here that being a member of the EU is the solution to all our problems. Evidently it isn’t as otherwise we’d still be in it.
As for rebuilding industry, the suggestion that it’s not possible is plainly ridiculous, and only supports my view. Will it be easy? No. Will it happen overnight? No. But it is possible. If we don’t have enough engineers or scientists then let’s train them. If it’s too expensive or risky for the private sector alone then support them with public money. If there are political barriers then use our power as one of the worlds major economies to negotiate a way through them.
All of this and no doubt much more is possible for a government with the political will, the money, a mandate from the public and the freedom to set policy as they see fit. This isn’t a unicorn jingoistic fantasy, it’s simple political and economic reality. I do agree though that the chances of any of this happening under the tories are slim. There’s a very obvious and entirely achievable solution to that problem.
it’s just a simple fact.
NO its not. there is nothing that we can do now that we couldn't in the EU. Brexit just makes everything more difficult and expensive
So i now have loads of snowflake Brexiteers telling me i need to take advantage of the new "opportunities" of a global market so i can in turn provide them with highly paid jobs (the dumb arse unqualified who voted for this) and tax take (the dumb arsed government they elected)
So snowflakes you want me to risk my capital and invest my energy in delivering what you want?
This is catch 22 on a nation state level - two sections of society both with little talent or abilty and no capability to deliver anything.
1. Tory party - thick as shit and looking for free money - takers not makers
2. Brexiteers- thick as shit and looking for free money - takers not makers
Two cheeks of the same arse.
PS. I note I’m in broad agreement with Tony Blair. Strange times.
Sooo dazh how are you personally going to create jobs, capital and tax take? Now you have a brave new world?
Or are you sat waiting for someone else to sort that bit? If so you are a taker.
To be blunt i see a lot of people spouting this shite but doing nowt.
If you want a few ideas just ask... but remember it will require cash (yours or a bank, VC, Angel Investor) and you will probably have to work 80 hours a week for minimum wage for many years and it may go wrong and you may loose house, family,credibility, credit rating..
Awaits excuses.....
your simple political and economic reality is rather light on reality. sorry about that. the only way we become competitive in a global market is by massive (by which i mean substantially more than the 20% hit it's already taken) devaluation of the pound. i'm sure it's a winning strategy though. i mean your ideas on 'what labour should do' have definitely paid off in the last two elections.
i think maybe we do focus on what the individual can do. because if current form is anything to go by we can't rely on any form of governance that is going to be forward looking. in my job me and my boss are looking to diversify from our almost exclusive servicing work (much of which comes from EU - awks) to include low level manufacturing. what are doing to make a go of things?
If your business is UK luxury goods Brexit should be a godsend. The US,China and Asia lap up our goods.
I'm sorry, did we not sell to those markets before now?
As for rebuilding industry, the suggestion that it’s not possible is plainly ridiculous, and only supports my view. Will it be easy? No. Will it happen overnight? No. But it is possible. If we don’t have enough engineers or scientists then let’s train them.
Are you serious? We don't just have a lack of skills, we have a lack of skilled people to train other folk up. By and large our trades are extinct. Where other countries have decades of experience we would be starting from nothing, be that skills or the actual manufacturing.
If it’s too expensive or risky for the private sector alone then support them with public money.
LMAO! What, like we did with Sheffield Forgemasters? Remember them, they were the ones Labour flung under the bus and allowed Le Cruesot to take the contract. Neither of the big parties give the slightest crap about anything outside private enterprise, their track records have more than shown that. Why you think this is going to change is beyond me.
If there are political barriers then use our power as one of the worlds major economies to negotiate a way through them.
Hmm, if only we had access to a nearby labour market with preferable trade agreements...
We don’t just have a lack of skills, we have a lack of skilled people to train other folk up. By and large our trades are extinct. Where other countries have decades of experience we would be starting from nothing, be that skills or the actual manufacturing.
This.
Thirty five years ago I was working in construction. The firm I was subcontracted to had a number of bricklayers but if there was some complicated brickwork specified by the architects then "Paul" was called up to do it. The problem was that Paul was nearing retirement and none of the other brickies were good enough. Those other brickies are now nearing retirement so there's at least one generation where Paul's skillset has disappeared.
It wasn't just that firm, apprenticeships were being abandoned by many firms large and small as it "was cheaper" to get an existing tradesman/craftsman in than train up the next generation of craftsmen. Of course what happened was that the tradesmen/craftsmen retired and we took in foreign workers.
That's just in manual skills, goodness knows what more technical roles are like in terms of skills shortage.
the general unchallengeable view on here that being a member of the EU is the solution to all our problems
I’ll buy you a beer for every user that has posited this on this, or any, thread.
Now, which problems have now been solved by us not being a member?
And all this is irrelevant, we aren’t a member. We have to look forward. And for Labour, that includes having a trade & foreign policy well beyond “we’ll do whatever Johnson says he’ll do”… and many voters will hope that means taking steps to vastly improve on the awful deal Johnson accepted last year, due to the narrow red lines that come from a narrow group in his own party.
I would love manufacturing to be our saviour, but it isn't going to happen. In fact I think we'll be lucky not to see an accelerated decline. Considerable investment will be needed just to stand still IMHO. If only we were a country with free access to one of the biggest markets in the world, we might be able to attract that investment. (Oh, hang on, we were - but we just pissed it up the wall. Never mind.)
Skills shortage is very real - both technical and craft.
Really not sure why you feel insulted by the suggestion that UK will be able to do some things outside the EU which it couldn’t before, it’s just a simple fact.
Lol mate that wasn't the insulting part. It was the bit where you said I lacked imagination and where I am just sitting here crying.
@dazh you are 0erfevtly correct in theory, we could of course transform ourselves into a manufacturing powerhouse. But it's not happening. Not in the next 20 years.
And we could have done that anyway! If there was a will to do that we'd have been doing it all along. The political climate just isn't there to support that kind of state investment, nor is the money.
Now, you may be right in that a major economic disaster might force this, New Deal style, but I don't want to have to.live through a disaster for that to happen. It'd be a bad thing. And what happened last time there was an economic disaster? They used it as an excuse to slash spending, and were rewarded at the ballot box for it.
Sorry to have to give you this news but the democratic socialist UK ain't coming. You talk about the "simple solution", you mean create a competent Labour offering and persuade everyone to vote for it, right? If you think that's simple you can't have been paying attention the last few elections!
This thread is an echo chamber of negativity.
I hope you are all enjoying it.
Doesn’t the air outside feel so much fresher now we are free!
Rule Britannia!
Reality
I am still awaiting someone telling me what we can do now that we couldn't do before