Onward and upward, the battle for a better UK has begun.
This. The anger and frustration at Brexit is to be expected. If we let that anger consume us and then lash out wildly at anyone who doesn't agree with us do we really think it'll improve the state of the country?
Hard though it will be, the time now is for listening, understanding and actions to make things better, for everyone. Bite your tongue and rise above.
it’s vile to have voted for it in the first place, and legitimised the nasty, insular racist rhetoric that factions of the media and the English population now feel emboldened to spread.
Now hold on. I'm a die-hard remainer but not all leavers voted so for vile reasons, and to call them such is really not good. And you cannot justify being a dick to leavers just because they are leavers.
Get a grip, for goodness' sake.
Best you can do pondo, your contributions to this thread are so inappropriate for a family cycling forum !! If you want to call me a snowflake PM me we can meet up and you can do it to my face 👍
Bless, I had no idea you were so sensitive - let me know which contributions are inappropriate and I'll apologise. PM sent. 😉
I’m a die-hard remainer but not all leavers voted so for vile reasons, and to call them such is really not good.
It's true that they may not have voted for that, but I think it's also true that they've legitimised those views.
It’s true that they may not have voted for that, but I think it’s also true that they’ve legitimised those views.
It only would have taken a quick check to realise they were supporting a cause that was dear to the likes of Farage et al.
If you are on the same side as Yaxley-Lennon's lot, you know what you are backing.
This. The anger and frustration at Brexit is to be expected. If we let that anger consume us and then lash out wildly at anyone who doesn’t agree with us do we really think it’ll improve the state of the country?
I disagree. The animal rights lot used a dirty direct action campaign that turned the general public against animal testing.
Anti-racists could do with taking some inspiration from them.
Ok.
Any more aggressive posts, condoning violence or indeed claiming such things that all leavers knew they were promoting racism and I’ll hand out more bans.
Statistically i will be dead before we get back in..
A good rule of thumb is that whenever someone starts referring to a massive, disparate group of people as "them" to attack them they're either a raging idiot or a mendacious shit stirrer.
It's part of a nasty process of "othering", perfected by horrible bastards of all shades.
A good way of making people with loads of shared history, experiences and values become suspicious and hateful of each other.
If you are on the same side as Yaxley-Lennon’s lot, you know what you are backing.
+1 collective guilt was good enough for the Germans, I don’t see why it’s not good enough for the brexiteers.
They need to collectively own it and speak out against all racists, just like they tend to ask Muslims to speak out against terror.
A good way of making people with loads of shared history, experiences and values become suspicious and hateful of each other.
What shared values? I have more in common with a well educated Iranian than I do with a lot of brexies.
Neither side is /was perfect, and when asked to choose one you have to be prepared to accept that it brings with it some stuff you don't specifically agree with.
However, when that baggage is being aligned with the BNP, when the result of your support is the emboldening of the kind of people in that video, or that post notices like those in Norwich - then I'm sorry but you ARE complicit.
You can't claim it comes as a surprise, it was clear in the campaigning. You knew what was in the box and you opened it anyway.
It’s true that they may not have voted for that, but I think it’s also true that they’ve legitimised those views.
Yes but that may not have been their intention, and they may not have realised that would be the consequence.
It only would have taken a quick check to realise they were supporting a cause that was dear to the likes of Farage et al.
If you are on the same side as Yaxley-Lennon’s lot, you know what you are backing.
It's much more complex than that.
A good rule of thumb is that whenever someone starts referring to a massive, disparate group of people as “them” to attack them they’re either a raging idiot or a mendacious shit stirrer.
Or just igorant - but yes. So by talking about leavers this and that, you are part of the problem even if you think you are on the right side of the issue (and I do).
In other words, don't be a dick. It's never justifiable.
Complicity and responsibility can get complicated though, why does it stop at a leave voter, what about those that have stood back and followed the system, what about those that created the system, what about those that blindly ignore the problems of society because they were just fine. We reap what we sow. Time for change.
Hmm. We just had change, didn't work so well.
+1 collective guilt was good enough for the Germans, I don’t see why it’s not good enough for the brexiteers
You're now equating Brexit with the 3rd Reich? You've lost the plot entirely.
Following it up with the desire to punish a large group of people for their thought crimes. Yet somehow you see others as wannabe fascists.
Following it up with the desire to punish a large group of people for their thought crimes. Yet somehow you see others as wannabe fascists.
The same people have a tendency of using the fascism card to shut down criticism of their racism - so I have no problem tarring them with the fascism brush in kind.
Yes far right EDL nutters might use that. Your shitey flawed logic is
EDL like brexit. Lots of people liked Brexit. Therefore lots of people like the EDL.
AND
EDL are scum. Hating scum is ok. Therefore it's ok to hate everyone who voted for brexit.
Away you go Iran, with your powers of logic you'll be in the IRGC within the year.
The defensiveness of the Brexiteer is immense. No-one's making the links you're implying - we're just saying leave voters are not immune from criticism.
I'm not a Brexiteer, if you knew my family circumstances you'd understand.
I'm anti idiot.
Sound, then don't accuse people of making links they're not making.
How does everyone think this new thread is working out, BTW? 🙂
Pondo, rayban is definitely making those links, he has form (and who is we?)
Ray-Ban is spouting hate and you say 'we' to support him but quickly call Tomd a brexiteer to undermine his anti hate view. Get a grip. Jeez
@Pondo as above I was replying to Rayban who very much was making those links, which are disgraceful.
It’s not disgraceful if it’s true.
We fully realise the enormity of what we say when we state that over 70% of the UK population is prejudiced. ‘Surely not’, ‘not me’, ‘we are a tolerant society’ are all natural responses; but let us look back at what we have considered as prejudice. Only one of our four subtypes can be considered to be not prejudiced (Egalitarians), either consciously or subconsciously; however, only one of our four subtype groups would consciously consider themselves to be prejudiced, the Modern Racists. Aversive Racists would not want to be prejudiced and may discriminate inadvertently or may explain it away to themselves as avoiding discomfort. Principled Conservatives are not likely to consider themselves to be prejudiced, as they are merely insisting that people are treated according to their own abilities and what they have earned in society. However, each of these three subtypes can impact negatively upon outgroups in their own way. If we return to our widely supported definition of prejudice, each of the three groups in their own way are made up of individuals with attitudes towards groups and/or their members which either create or maintain the hierarchical relations between groups, as defined originally by Dovidio et al. (2013). We must move away from the idea of prejudice and discrimination as being hot, direct, in your face racism. No doubt this still exists but it is joined by a more ambiguous ‘life would be so much nicer without all these foreigners around’, ‘they’re getting more than me, it’s not fair’, ‘I don’t feel comfortable with people who aren’t like me’ othering. It all adds up.
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41599-018-0214-5
@Pondo as above I was replying to Rayban who very much was making those links, which are disgraceful.
Maybe I've missed a post or we just have a different take or something, but as I said earlier (to Molgrips, I think), even if the majority of leavers didn't vote explicitly for racism/anti-immigration/bleed the freak/whatever, their actions have certainly enabled the racist ****ers who becoming increasingly enboldened.
Ray-Ban is spouting hate and you say ‘we’ to support him but quickly call Tomd a brexiteer to undermine his anti hate view. Get a grip. Jeez
Your take is that he is spouting hate and I support him, I don't think you have a clue what you're on about.
so I have no problem tarring them with the fascism brush in kind.
If you really believe that then you are absolutely no better than they are. You're just an angry person spouting hate at people you don't like.
Don't bother slinging insults my way in petty retaliation. It's pointless. Apologise or shut up.
Rayban - did reading that not set off an alarm bells that perhaps you had fabricated an out group to hate upon?
We fully realise the enormity of what we say when we state that over 70% of the UK population is prejudiced. ‘
Everyone is prejudiced. The difference between people is how you react to that little primal voice that pipes up when you see a brown person behaving differently, hear another language being used loudly and obnoxiously, see gay people making irritating PDAs or whatever triggers it. Do you go along with it and try to justify that negativity; or do you make yourself stop and think if you're doing the right thing?
Rayban – did reading that not set off an alarm bells that perhaps you had fabricated an out group to hate upon?
Not really, it reinforced my belief that engaging these people constructively is a waste of effort and it’s now time to look out for your own in-group and self interest and the detriment of theirs. If these people end up as managers etc, it is my children that will suffer prejudice from them.
Everyone is prejudiced. The difference between people is how you react to that little primal voice that pipes
And brexiteers were not able to control that part of their primeval brain - were they?
reinforced my belief
The first true thing you've said. See - you do have loads in common with Brexiteers.
Dodgy beliefs continuously reinforced by your biases leading to bold assertions with the substance of an ill shit.
How is it controversial to say that if you are not a racist yet you find yourself on the side of a divide where all the racists are, that you should be questioning your stance?
If in doubt, look who you are sharing a viewpoint with.
And brexiteers were not able to control that part of their primeval brain – were they?
May I suggest you stop there. Blaming all who voted Brexit for a few racists is completely out of order. If you want to spout such rubbish go to a different forum.
And brexiteers were not able to control that part of their primeval brain – were they?
Oh look, where have I heard people making the claim that others from a different group have their brains wired differently.
Oh yes, it was the advocates of apartheid.
If your assertion is true then you'll have a hard time arguing against racism in general.
Wow - what a nasty bunch you are.
The original Loony thread showed the odd glimpse of reason and intellect (Inkster contribution) .. but this thread is full of hate preaching nastiness.
You can keep it to yourselves; I shall not be wasting my time reading it again.
You can keep it to yourselves; I shall not be wasting my time reading it again.
Do you think there'll ever be a time where you say that and mean it?
Pondo, it's not exactly a robust defense but I'm happy to bite.
Ray-Ban on page 4 quote
**** unity.
Make as many brexiteers lives as shit as you possibly can – by the way you vote and by the way you interact with them on a daily basis. Make sure they lose as much opportunity as possible so they do not hold positions of power. Remainers tend to be better educated and hold better jobs with more influence – that can be weaponized.
He has continued on this theme and has form for this type of rant but you are happy to buddy up with your 'we' while trying to undermine (falsely) another forum member calling his shit out.
Take a break from the forum if it's a difficult time for rational conversation for you.
He has continued on this theme and has form for this type of rant but you are happy to buddy up with your ‘we’ while trying to undermine (falsely) another forum member calling his shit out.
Take a break from the forum if it’s a difficult time for rational conversation for you.
You're damn right (congratulations! First time on this thread) that it's not a "robust defense". If you can make one up, let me know.
It's hardly surprising that there's a lot of ill feeling on this thread. The enormity of the backwards direction this island has taken has been brought into even more sharp relief by the news bombardment regarding Brexit Day celebrations. Rightly or wrongly folk currently feel the need to kick back at this. I'm sure it'll settle down again.
And it's hardly a surprise that folk are blaming the uneducated and racist when any attempt to ascertain exactly why else folk voted Leave is met by nonsense (those TV clips) or silence (some forum members).
All that sounds like to me is a good reason to avoid the news. I live in Brexitland on Sea and I did not see one party, firework or any other indication that Brexit happened. Took the kids to the library, swimming and town on B-Day and not one mention of it. Folk said hello and chatted, it was nice even though the kids are a bit foreign.
If you're an editor for BBC news, what clip are you going to put on? The hilarious nutter or the guy that just kind says "Meh, let's see".
Ahh looks like a good start
Foreign Secretary Dominic Raab has accused the EU of “shifting the goalposts” and threatening to undermine Brexit with its demands that the UK follow EU rules as part of a Canada-style free trade deal after 2021.
May I suggest you stop there. Blaming all who voted Brexit for a few racists is completely out of order. If you want to spout such rubbish go to a different forum..
Can we only assume that a political movement is inherently racist if they wave swastikas at rallies whilst shouting at immigrants passing by?
@ tomd
Lucky you don't work for the NHS then cos plenty of my non white colleagues got Brexit Eve abuse.
This ^
How can anyone seriously suggest that it wasn't obvious before the referendum that all the racists were pro-Brexit?
Something happened in Batley which highlighted this in big bold letters, anyone remember?
