That daily mash is as good as any analysis as anyone else will come up with
All it needed was for remainers
You can **** right off with that narrative. Because remainers have been told to...
Move on, get over it.
... for four years. You cannot endeavour to silence people whilst simultaneously blaming them for being silent, that's a nonsense. And frankly bloody offensive.
The blame for all of this lies 100% in one camp. And we warned them, vociferously, and were shouted down with "project fear." Shoving this blame back onto us now at the 11th hour is the sort of thing that leads to civil unrest.
You’re not the first to make that mistake though.
As you seem to hold yourself up as the voice of pragmatism here, maybe you might consider some introspection as to why that might be the case?
All it needed was for remainers
Ooh I missed that one.
Are we having another crack at that narrative?
It comes back every so often - with enough goading I reckon daz could be made to compare the EU to a dictatorship again.
<yawns>
‘International trading terms’ - that’s how the BBC is describing No Deal now… did they think of that one themselves?
Satire is dead
you want some comedy here's our PM claiming the deal he negotiated, signed, won an election off the back of & has spaffed £bns preparing for...... makes no sense
https://twitter.com/Telegraph/status/1303073415222513664?s=19
‘International trading terms’
Turns out its also Boris's favourite sexual euphemism, but apparently Carrie will agree to "International trading terms" on his birthday... Prophetic eh?
Suits you Sir!
Edit:
: “Brexit deal never made sense, PM to tell EU”
Anyone else wonder if he's just been reading the German translation by accident?
The current BBC bias for Boris and the Tories is painfully obvious and Labour MPs rarely get an interview.
I think they need to be, if they want the organisation to survive this government’s full term.
Ooh I missed that one.
I've calmed down a bit over the last year or so and it's an argument that I foresaw coming four years ago. But if a leaver had told me, oh, say two years ago maybe, in a pub after several pints that brexit was all my fault for not getting behind it, it would have taken serious self-control not to just lamp them one.
‘International trading terms’ – that’s how the BBC is describing No Deal now… did they think of that one themselves?
WTO?
you want some comedy here’s our PM claiming the deal he negotiated, signed, won an election off the back of & has spaffed £bns preparing for…… makes no sense
We went through the looking glass 4 years ago. Nothing surprises me any more with these ****s
Brexiteer dimwit Andrew Bridgend was on channel 4 news earlier assuring us that the EU still needs us more than we need them and they’ll come crawling for a deal at the 11th hour and give ‘us’ everything ‘we’ want
Beam me up....
https://twitter.com/jacknannini/status/1303039878243004418?s=21
everything ‘we’ want
Have we worked out what that is now, then?
I think it’s something to do with cakes
maybe this is why parliment kept voting it down, until the people spoke.
anyone watched 'Children of Men' lately?
I'm a History and Modern Studies teacher..I have always looked at times of huge historical or political significance and wondered what it would have been like to live through them. "Shite" is the initial impression and that is before the winter of 2025 when they ration rat meat.
Anyway; as you were.
Sorry if it's bindun - I'm not really "in" this thread
but somebody twittered today
"Rules? Britannia? - Britannia waives the rules..."
Which I enjoyed, bigly
Loving the fact that all those MPs now have to defend this u-turn
https://twitter.com/DarranMarshall/status/1303080259861053442?s=19
who gets thrown under the bus
Everyone.
Some will have unfortunate encounters with the tyres, others will somehow find themselves wandering dazed in the street with only some gravel in their hair, but you're going under.
Unless Dom the Bus Conductor let you on the bus beforehand.
As you seem to hold yourself up as the voice of pragmatism here
Not really pragmatic, I still look at it all with a sense of doom like everyone else here, but I do get quite annoyed when I think that it could have easily been stopped if remainer MPs had made it a priority over everything else. That's just a fact.
Anyway, I'm trying hard to follow Starmer's example and stay well clear of the subject. There's not much left to argue about. It's in the hands of Cummings now and nothing anyone else says or does will make any difference. We've just got to wait for it to play out and try to pick up the pieces after.
And try and place the blame on anybody else but the people really responsible apparently.
And try and place the blame on anybody else but the people really responsible apparently.
Johnson and Cummings are going to pin the blame on the EU and covid.
I imagine Cummings especially sees a second covid-19 wave as a thing that has some useful attributes. Whilst he's convincing himself he is a brilliantly innovative thinker rather than what he is - a mendacious sociopath who gets a stiffee causing people stress and disquiet.
And try and place the blame on anybody else but the people really responsible apparently.
Before December nothing about brexit was cast in stone. You can console yourself with fantasies about the inevitability of it and how no one could do anything up against the evil empire, but the plain fact is that the remainers in parliament failed due to their own pride and petty self-interest. It could have been stopped. To deny otherwise is just daft.
could have been stopped. To deny otherwise is just daft.
I'd love to hear how that would have happened ?
Did it involve a load of Tories putting Corbyn in number 10?
Because that was never going to happen in this reality
Meanwhile it's really funny watching the brexies flap around trying to defey Johnson's u-turn on his deal 😂
Stop it? How exactly?
Let’s be brutally frank here, we were absolutely ****ed from the moment Dave arrogantly and complacently appointed himself and George Osbourne as the faces of the remain campaign and Jezza disappeared off for a sabbatical on the allotment
Christ, that seems an awful long time ago.
And here we still are. Flailing around in the mess created by a pissing competition between two old Eton chums, with the corrupt and incompetent now trying to deliver the undeliverable they never imagined for a moment they’d ever have to deliver.
If any image sums up Brexit perfectly, it’s this:
Those two opportunist shysters comprehending the grim prize they never actually wanted to win. After that, the chain of events that led us here had a spirit-crushing inevitability to it
Yes, a G7 country brought down by an Eton circle jerk. This extract from the Eton college Wikipedia page is illuminating and annoying AF, Paul Weller had it right all those years ago:
Pop: officially known as ‘Eton Society’, a highly glamorous high-status elite society comprising the most popular, well-regarded, confident and able senior boys. It is thus truly an elite within an elite. It is a driving ambition of many capable Eton schoolboys to be elected to Pop, and many high-performers who are refused entry to this elite consider their careers at Eton a failure. Boris Johnson was a member of Pop, whilst David Cameron (unlike his elder brother Alexander) failed to be elected, a fact which possibly fed their later political rivalry. Over the years its power and privileges have grown. Pop is the oldest self-electing society at Eton. The rules were altered in 1987 and again in 2005 so that the new intake are not elected solely by the existing year and a committee of masters. Members of Pop wear white and black houndstooth-checked trousers, a starched stick-up collar and white bow-tie, and are entitled to wear flamboyant waistcoats, often of their own design. Historically, only members of Pop were entitled to furl their umbrellas or sit on the wall on the Long Walk, in front of the main building. However, this tradition has died out. They perform roles at many of the routine events of the school year, including School Plays, parents' evenings and other official events, and generally maintain order. Notable ex-members of Pop include Prince William, Duke of Cambridge (unlike his younger brother Prince Harry, who failed to be elected ); Eddie Redmayne; and Boris Johnson.
I suspect 'pop' goes to the loudest, most obnoxious *****, or perhaps the ones who have burned the most amount of money in front of the homeless in that calendar year
Because that was never going to happen in this reality
I agree, and I completely understand the political dynamics, but it doesn't change the fact that it was possible. There were more remain MPs than brexiters in parliament. Had they put all other issues aside brexit could have been stopped in its tracks with a simple vote in parliament. They had other priorities though. In the end stopping brexit wasn't as important as their own political careers and loyalties. The likes of Swinson, Gauke, Hammond, Grieve etc though keeping labour out of power was more important than keeping the UK in the EU. That's why we are where we are now.
Had they put all other issues aside brexit could have been stopped in its tracks with a simple vote in parliament.
Fantasy. Many of those MPs opposing (and failing to stop) No Deal Brexit were not in favour of stopping Brexit, including many Labour MPs.
Any chance of using this thread for what's happening right now, this year, and beyond? What the MPs of 2019 did is old news. It's not that it's not important, it's just gone, over, and your retelling of history, and all our replies about that, are clogging up the thread, just as the focus on the lying bait and switch artists running the government should be under the full glare of the spotlight.
Following on from the threat at the weekend to ignore the UK's legal obligations under the withdrawal agreement.
If it is now an acceptable tactic to ignore international treaty obligations for political expediency, (or even to threaten to do so) surely there is a risk of ending up on the receiving end of economic sanctions. So, could we end up with a no deal and punitive sanctions?
I can't see any deal with the US if the peace process is wrecked. Any entanglement with a UK government responsible for that would simply be too toxic for any US politician looking over his shoulder at the Irish - American diaspora.
If it is now an acceptable tactic to ignore international treaty obligations for political expediency, (or even to threaten to do so) surely there is a risk of ending up on the receiving end of economic sanctions. So, could we end up with a no deal and punitive sanctions?
Dishonesty means people don't trust you in future. It is a morality lesson we try to teach kids from about 18 months of age.
You can dress thus stuff up as much as you like as 'statecraft' or 'robust politicking', but what it really is is cheating and lying.
It does immeasurable damage to the UK, but then, what is a bit more damage when you've already done so much?
shooterman, you wrote...
If it is now an acceptable tactic to ignore international treaty obligations for political expediency, (or even to threaten to do so) surely there is a risk of ending up on the receiving end of economic sanctions. So, could we end up with a no deal and punitive sanctions?
Did you see this article in yesterday's Guardian?
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/sep/07/eu-has-powers-to-punish-uk-if-it-breaches-brexit-treaty-experts-warn
Don't this government want some form of punishment action from the EU? Isn't that exactly what will sure up their support, and support for their domestic agenda, with the public they have proven they are masters at winning over when it matters (to them)?
Dishonesty means people don’t trust you in future. It is a morality lesson we try to teach kids from about 18 months of age.
The flaw here is Johnson has never had to learn this lesson. He has spent his life lying away and has always failed upwards.
Don’t this government want some form of punishment action from the EU? Isn’t that exactly what will (sic) sure up their support, and support for their domestic agenda
Ursa Pinus Poopus? The whole fiasco has shown that the public appetite for different versions of the same lie ie ‘if it wasn’t for bloody foreigners’...
... is a dead-cert vote-winner AND versatile smokescreen. Almost anything is possible now they’ve sacked all the internal dissent. Extra points for posh latin phrases delivered in dismissive blustery Churchillian baritone.
I see bernard jenkin, on behalf of the ERG, has just said that in the event of no deal johnson should tear up the withdrawal agreement - and that would earn resect from other countries.
The lunatics have truly taken over the asylum.
@frankconway - no I hadn't seen that. A good read though - thanks.
I didn't post above to be prejorative or sneer at Brexiteers. I am genuinely trying to get my head around what is increasingly looking like some sort of Gotterdamerung for the UK.
I know there has been a lot of theorising about disaster capitalism, tax havens and dirty Russian money being hidden in a deregulated UK but I'm struggling to see the upside for anyone in all of this? There appears to be a wilful determination to make things as awful as possible.
There is, it appears to me, a real risk of no deal, penalties from the EU, third party countries following suit to preserve their relationships with the EU and no trade deal with the US. For what purpose?
The upsides are the payoffs Tories are getting or going to get from us healthcare and agribusiness plus the money they make on betting against the pound
Ok, so let's say this is all a cynical project by a narrow group to enrich themselves, what do you think it would take to shatter the cult of Brexit?
what do you think it would take to shatter the cult of Brexit?
It doesn't matter. We've left. And we can't choose to replace the people currently wrecking the UK off the back of it for their own political and financial aims ‘till they’re done. It won't shatter 'till it is history, and people are telling us to "get over" the wasted years and billions.
There is a reason why some of us ŵanted a “measure twice, cut once” vote on this… it’s like going over the edge of a waterfall… now we’ve gone over the edge it is absolutely irrelevant that more and more people will see through the lies, we’re going down no matter what.
I see bernard jenkin, on behalf of the ERG, has just said that in the event of no deal johnson should tear up the withdrawal agreement – and that would earn resect from other countries.
The lunatics have truly taken over the asylum.
And in the process he has elevated 'being a prick' into a rare art form.
I'm not so pessimistic Kelvin. Perhaps I am being naive but there has to be a point at which people decide the price being paid for this form of Brexit is too high.
And then... what can they do about it?
Vote. Protest. Give the Tories a whiff of the political wilderness for 10 years.
Protest.
Laws are being changed bit by bit ready to prevent that. Have you noticed? Most haven't. We said it would happen, but hey... we're the undemocratic ones for warning about it.
Give the Tories a whiff of the political wilderness for 10 years.
That "may" come (I don't think it will, goalposts will be moved, and they'll move the narrative onto something else by the next election... I dread what as it happens), but in the meantime, these people can not be stopped 'till the damage is complete and mostly irreversible, no matter what the people think. F the people!
Laws are being changed bit by bit ready to prevent that. Have you noticed?
Aggravated trespass has popped up a few times already. Also, social distancing is a convenient way to stop many attending and criticising those that do.
