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The danger is that we will eventually run out of long grass to kick the ball into. I suspect that may be January.
The danger is that we will eventually run out of long grass to kick the ball into. I suspect that may be January.
It is January. Johnson's ramshackle shitshow bus flies over the cliff with all of us onboard, only to find that Cummings and chums are still standing on the cliff and waving, pockets bulging.
And still our only hope is that Johnson bottles it at the last minute and agrees to regulatory alignment and some cobbled together ‘deal’
The latest great Brexit news
Firms plead for Brexit deal as coronavirus leaves industry reeling
Another nail in the a British car industry coffin. Project fear, eh?
"The commission has made clear that it will not agree third-country cumulation in any circumstances, which we regret, but obviously cannot insist upon," says Lord Frost
Thought they needed us more than we needed them?....
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-54345882
Brexit really does mean Brexit, who would have thought?
I'm simultaneously scared, intrigued and sad about the world beating shit to fan interface that is going to happen in January. Mostly sad because we all get to be active participants rather than passive observers.
Just to re-iterate...the UK population and economy are nothing more than expendable lab rats in cummings world.
Control and power has been ceded to cummings and gove; the latter owes the former for saving his political career under cameron.
johnson is nothing more than their useful idiot.
Anything that's happened so far - notably, but not excusively, CV19 and brexit - is nothing more than the hors d'oeuvres before the main event.
Quelle suprise:
Does anyone know what the obsession with fish is all about?
The Brexit mob aren't remotely bothered about the manufacturing industry in this country being decimated, but mention haddock and they get worked up into a frenzy
I think the obsession with fish is a combination of "Britannia rules the waves",and "as British as fish and chips" with the idea that something is being stolen that we own, as opposed to it being a resource that coincidentally passes through our region.
Cars are less of an issue as affordable British Cars ceased a generation ago and were generally awful. The guy I bought my VW from had "England" flag plates on it and I see a fair few farmer's Mitsubishis around here with "keep britain farming" stickers on them.
Does anyone know what the obsession with fish is all about?
Pavlov's dog, but with Tory voting pensioners.
Theyve conceded on fishing rights too
Johnson was always going to throw fishermen under the bus to get a deal
Car industry was also an inevitable victom
EU would let us stew in no deal for a while, knowing we would ha e to come back to the table before long
Fishing has been turned into an emotive issue; it's a relatively insignificant sector in the UK but has become totemic - think back to the 'cod wars'.
Think of it in terms of 'rallying around the flag'.
North Sea fishing rights are much more important to W European countries than they are to the UK.
I fully accept there are a small number of coastal towns where fishing is very important but at the national level it isn't.
I believe, but could be wrong, that the UK exports more of it's catch than it consumes.
Are there really still people who think that Johnson just lies to others, not them...?
However, UK fisheries leaders warned the government not to sell them out. Barrie Deas, the head of the National Federation of Fishermen’s Organisations, said: “What we wouldn’t agree to is surrendering fishing rights in order to have a trade deal.
“There is no expectation within the UK fishing industry that the UK will back down on fisheries. If anything, the commitments that have been made to the industry are stronger now than when the negotiations started. We’ve been given clear and unequivocal commitments.”
...and? What are they worth?
Farage started the rot, he sat on the influential EU Fisheries committee which shaped policy, yet he only attended 1 out of 42 of their meetings. They then blame the unconstitutional EU for this that and the other, yet they (I lump Farage and the Tories together) never seemingly took the EU seriously.
Talking about fish often involves the phrase 'territorial waters' and if there is anything guaranteed to give a gammon a semi, if not a full-on raging boner, it is something 'territorial'.
Symbolism and populism works for people who don't like to think too much, but always suspect Johnny Foreigner is up to something.
Rule, Britannia! Britannia, rule the waves!
etc
'territorial' reminds me. Where is the little shit Francois? In a room with a tape recorder running one hopes...
Loss of control over fishing rights has also long been used as a pro-Union argument against Scottish Independence. It's one of the reasons for some areas of the NE not being so on-board with the SNP.
Another nail in the a British car industry coffin. Project fear, eh?
“The commission has made clear that it will not agree third-country cumulation in any circumstances, which we regret, but obviously cannot insist upon,” says Lord Frost
Thought they needed us more than we needed them?….
I hope no UK bike brands sell much abroad...
A separate draft legal text, also obtained by the BBC, lists the UK's request for manufacturing of electric cars, batteries, and bicycles to be treated leniently, and count as British, even if the majority of components come from elsewhere.
So Shimano, SRAM and Bosch will count against them? Maybe not Bosch. Hmm.
The Conservatives really look like they are going with the 'burn it all to the ground and run away' policy we all feared.. And there's nothing to stop them.
I hope no UK bike brands sell much abroad…
They still have to import raw materials even if they build components from scratch.
Loss of control over fishing rights has also long been used as a pro-Union argument against Scottish Independence. It’s one of the reasons for some areas of the NE not being so on-board with the SNP.
First thing I thought of when I heard about it,the Union is obviously acceptable collateral damage.
Rule, Britannia! Britannia, rule the wave!
Fixed for post Brexit extent.
Given that 60-70% of 'UK' fishing is from Scotland it's easy to see why the Government are happy to chuck the fisherman under the big Brexit bus. It's something like 1% of GDP - behind Pet Insurance.
Attempts by the automotive industry on rules of origin are laughable - but of course all those Brexit voters in Sunderland knew exactly what they were voting for - a P45.
Dominic Is often referred to being the power behind the throne, in reality most of the cabinet views him as some sort of genius due to Leave UK and then the Conservative election. He is very good at shaping messages and understanding the "end user" backed by big data (not really big data just big targeted access)
So what we should also be understanding is that the next step in Doms development is utilising left field thoughts and ideas in the ecomomy via technology that does not inovate or evolve it simply tears up whats gone before.
Supporting this is a cabinet that has no grasp on business, economics (actual not text book) or how to turn an ecomomy around the best they can do is chuck Rishi money at things and respond to a skills shortage list. So they look to Dom who has proved his metal twice to give them a miracle post brexit, now the backbenchers and 1922 folks who do have a limited grasp on reality are really very very uncomfortable with Rishi Cash and Doms ripping yarns around technology.
This is underpinned by appointments of the likes of Dido Harding and the potential of Dacre.
Dom might be a mad genius, we would do well to remember this man is not motivated by money or politics (he has lots of the first and detests the political class - he is an anarchist at heart)
Even if Dom has a magic bullet (which i doubt) i dont think the backbenchers will underwrite the cost of the experiment.
In summary the Tory cabinet will roll the dice on Dom saving the day for no better reason than they have no other option. If that dice roll requires a hard brexit (which i suspect it will require due to the current row with the EU over state aid) then thats what will happen.
We have seen today a major blow to the Car Industry, i am aware that Dom doesn't like "old school" industy but Tesla gives him a hard on.
I think i have sussed where this is all going, just as the Tory backbenchers have sussed Dom trouble is they have no place in Doms plan. So watch the internal war the Brady bunch V Boris's Boys.
The only good thing to come from all of this is that we are part of history that will be remembered long after we are all gone.
Back benchers getting their arses in their hands about having no control or being sidelined by 'here today gone tomorrow ministers' over covid legislation. Guess what dick heads, this is what happens when you mess with parliamentary sovereignty, and now you're upset about it because somone is using the result in a way you're not happy with? F off!
The only good thing to come from all of this is that we are part of history that will be remembered long after we are all gone.
I wonder if the people of the 1930s thought similarly.
Back benchers getting their arses in their hands about having no control or being sidelined by ‘here today gone tomorrow ministers’ over covid legislation. Guess what dick heads, this is what happens when you mess with parliamentary sovereignty, and now you’re upset about it because somone is using the result in a way you’re not happy with? F off!
Don't forget they were more than happy to hitch a ride on Boris's Bullshit Bus when it was duping gullible idiots - so they could reserve their places at the trough.
Rule Britannia, Britannia waves the rules.
Britain’s forever ever ever known as f....
In today's lesson, we learn that the nebulous 'sovereignty' doesn't mean do what you like with no consequence.
https://twitter.com/tconnellyRTE/status/1311581354769944576
I don't doubt for a second that Dominic Cummings will be overjoyed with this
It suits him perfectly as it absolutely guarantees No Deal now, but it also fits their narrative that this is all the fault of the nasty EU who are being unreasonable and bullying us
Obviously anyone with anything between their ears knows this is total bollocks, but then anyone with anything between their ears never voted for this nonsense in the first place.
The worry now is that this will really escalate now and become ridiculously confrontational as Cummings and co do what they do and go on the attack against the EU, and in doing so properly burn all bridges
and in doing so properly burn all bridges
Of course, the joined up thinking is that doing so will either scupper all ongoing trade negotiations with non EU countries, or put us on the back foot and forced to accept worse terms than we currently have with them.
Shortest press conference ever?
To sumamrise:
You're being ****s!
We're not having it!
This is exactly what they want, no deal and bad blood, then at every election going forward they'll say that Labour will sell us out with a trade deal with the evil untrustworthy EU and only the Tories can be trusted to protect our hard won Brexit.
Well... the EU have two choices...
1) stick to their commitments in the WA, and pursue both political and legal routes to get us to do the same
2) renege on their commitments in the WA, just as we are
They have to choose 1... we may get to 2 next year, but that's full on trade war time, and the end of the Good Friday Agreement. Hopefully it'll never come to that.. but there is no way they would jump straight to that right now.
And here we go... with wearying predictability, the narrative that was always going to be pushed by Cummings and co...
https://twitter.com/MartinDaubney/status/1311595086132772865?s=20
Yeah between evil migrants & the bullying EU I imagine Cummings is pretty happy with all this
A sense of relief and release washes over the right wing media, sorry the UK media, as they're given free reign to now publish their EU bully rhetoric. Its been lying on their desktop folder and toyed with for years. Dom cum releases his flying monkeys etc
Yep, half the country will be excited about prison ships for dark skinned people, and the EU 'not letting us leave'... and the other half can see exactly who can be trusted.
How sweet would it be if they can STOP us leaving over this mess? 😀
We have already left. They are looking after us 'till the New Year... that's one of their WA commitments they are sticking to.
There's just been a Belgium MEP on the radio saying that a trade deal is academic now as there is no question the European parliament would ratify any trade deal with a country that is presently in breach of international law
No Deal is now absolutely nailed on
I'm sure Cummings is ecstatic!
In the latest 'you couldn't make this shit up' installment of Brexit...
https://twitter.com/Nigel_Farage/status/1311595930236465152?s=20
It should never have been signed in the first place.
This is from the man who stood candidates down, so that Johnson could get his mandate to deliver this "oven ready deal". Mr bait-n-switch delivers the goods yet again.
Some of the frothing on the BBC comments is unreal. Even if you support Brexit, I find it hard to believe people still think that the EU will struggle more than we will in the case of no deal.
We (were) how much of Europe GDP, just as a measure?
googlesays EU in total:
$18.292 trillion
and UK:
$2.855 trillion
Sure, 15% of your trade going rogue will be a problem.
But a whole lot less problem than 100% going breasts skyward.
Back in 2016 …
“People voted for multiple contradictory (and some cases unavailable) replacements for EU membership… pick an available one and then ask the public whether they prefer it to membership.”
Forward to 2021 …
“Of course this Brexit is worse than membership, it’s the wrong Brexit, not the one we voted for.”
[ of course, despite admitting our new situation is rubbish next year, we’ll have proven our “Sovereignty” by causing all the damage by our own actions, so it’ll be worth it ]
Have we done Gove saying that Brexit costing chemical companies lots of money is a result of leaving the EU?
After reading some those BBC comments, I give up hope. I frankly have zero sympathy for some of these people, and when the shit hts the fan, I'm going to be a smug bastard. A lot of the people who voted for this, are going to suffer, good. The shame is, the people truly responsible will walk away with pots of cash.
Yup, I'm going to have little sympathy for them and I think next year once Cummings and Co unleash their grand plan for the UK after Brexit a lot of "hard working" people are going to be in for a shock as their rights are stripped away under the guise of making global Britain competitive.
Unfortunately some lessons are only learned the hard way.
Unfortunately some lessons are only learned the hard way.
You would hope that, but when it comes to it, people have the annoying habit of trying to live as 'normally' as they can while the world collapses around them, while others have nailed their colours to this particular mast and can't/won't climb down.
Waiting for people to have a light bulb moment and turn things around...is like waiting for a southern rail train to arrive on time.
Just passing by: as someone who is trying a last ditch attempt to get residency here in Spain, it's pretty difficult. We're losing all our rights in the EU. A lot of Brits seem utterly ignorant of the gravity of the situation. If this was a left-wing government pursuing this idiocy, there would be a coup. I can't believe it's actually happening.
I think you could overstate todays situation, I've worked for companies where while working for company A on a project for company B, company B is suing company A for some breach on something else, all while negotiation for another project is ongoing. Once the objects get immovable enough sometimes it's just left to the lawyers to sort out. It seems to me to be mostly posturing on both sides. My understanding is that if there's a deal we'd never actually be in breach so a deal could still be done.
I think you could overstate todays situation, I’ve worked for companies where while working for company A on a project for company B, company B is suing company A for some breach on something else, all while negotiation for another project is ongoing. Once the objects get immovable enough sometimes it’s just left to the lawyers to sort out. It seems to me to be mostly posturing on both sides. My understanding is that if there’s a deal we’d never actually be in breach so a deal could still be done.
Doesn't really matter about the deal that is agreed, it still has to go through the Euro Parliament, plenty of chances for bad faith to be repaid.
A lot of the people who voted for this, are going to suffer, good.
No mate, most of us are going to suffer, regardless of which way we voted. That's the really shitty part.
kelvin
Full Member“Of course this Brexit is worse than membership, it’s the wrong Brexit, not the one we voted for.”
Aye. And when you're trying to smash through your version of brexit, then of course your exact version is exactly the brexit everyone wanted, and the referendum is all the mandate you need. But equally, of course when your brexit is a disaster, which it will be, then you say "Ah but this isn't the brexit I wanted, i tried to deliver that but remoaners/the EU/space gypsies stopped me"
Stand back everyone. The big guns have arrived.
Boris Johnson to speak to EC chief on Saturday in last-ditch Brexit talks
After the latest and last scheduled round of negotiations in Brussels, a Downing Street spokesman said the prime minister would “take stock of negotiations and discuss next steps”, with the commission president.
After their last meeting, Johnson had declared it time to put a “tiger in the tank” of the negotiations
Still using catchy phrases- from the early sixties in this case.
After the latest and last scheduled round of negotiations in Brussels, a Downing Street spokesman said the prime minister would “take stock of negotiations and discuss next steps”, with the commission president.
Bullshit Bus is running out of road...
Setting the scene for the fantabulous deal or some other innovative way of kicking the can further down the road.
Setting the scene for the fantabulous deal or some other innovative way of kicking the can further down the road.
Neither.
The can can't be kicked any more.
It is either:
1. A bit of posturing before caving in yet trying to present it as a victory (that odious turd Farage is clearly worried this is the case).
Or
2. A bit of posturing to try to pin the blame for a No Deal economic holocaust on the EU.
But either way it is just posturing because that is all the fly-tipped sofa we have as PM is good for (and he isn't half way as good as he thinks he is that, either).
Tosser.
The only cause we have for optimism is that the nicotine-stained man-frog clearly thinks a 'betrayal' is on the agenda. Let's just hope that his suspicion that Johnson will bottle it at the eleventh hour proves correct.
Given what's about to happen to the economy with Covid and the furlough ending, surely even someone as ****less as Johnson can't seriously risk the economic carnage of No Deal
Given what’s about to happen to the economy with Covid and the furlough ending, surely even someone as ****less as Johnson can’t seriously risk the economic carnage of No Deal
You'd hope, wouldn't you.
But then you remember all the donors to Leave and the Tories who are priced in and could end Johnson, Gove, Cummings et al in a heartbeat.
Headline from local news website...
COVID-19 outbreak at Lincolnshire gammon factory
Now we know where they come from - made in bulk in a factory.
I would love to know the true cost of these 50k customs employees.
I would have thought if the salary is an average of say 30k, that would probably cost the government around 37k with NI and pension contributions, then you have overheads for housing them (5k??) Plus additional overheads for processing salary etc at admim level......the list goes on.
So....
If 50k per employee is a true realistic overhead then the annual cost would be
50,000x50,000=250,0000,000 per annum or 48M per week. I never saw that on Johnson's bus.
eskay
Full MemberI would love to know the true cost of these 50k customs employees.
In the style of Emma Churchill's answer to earlier questions, "Up to 40 kabillion pounds"
I would love to know the true cost of these 50k customs employees.
Price worth paying, surely?
I would have thought if the salary is an average of say 30k, that would probably cost the government around 37k with NI and pension contributions, then you have overheads for housing them (5k??) Plus additional overheads for processing salary etc at admim level……the list goes on.
It'll be higher, employer pension contributions are a minimum of 26.6%. I reckon for the public sector work on double the salary and you won't be far out.
this thread has been a little quiet recently? i though it all comes to ahead very soon? is this the calm before the storm?
I suspect weary resignation has finally set in. They've got another 4 years. There's nothing anyone can do about it. Just sit and wait for the (chlorinated) chickens to come home to roost.
There’s nothing anyone can do about it.
Except before those 4 years are out the Irish Cross-Border Poll will have already made a united Ireland the future and Scotland will be on its way.
I would have thought if the salary is an average of say 30k
If they're the jobs I've seen coming through on the Civil Service jobs site in recent months, you need to lower your expectations as to how the government values these key providers of it's crucial policy delivery 🤣
Except before those 4 years are out the Irish Cross-Border Poll will have already made a united Ireland the future and Scotland will be on its way
That may be the case (personally I think not in Scotland's case but it's moot and we have a thread for that discussion) but I'm not sure how you imagine this will change their direction of travel.
Edit: this lot don't GAS. Being in power later is irrelevant to them. Brexit is a means to an end. So long as it's done in the time they have is all they care about.
So, taking back control with an oven ready deal isn't going so well....
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/brexit-news-uk-eu-trade-deal-latest-kent-garden-of-england-border-b985408.html
this thread has been a little quiet recently? i though it all comes to ahead very soon? is this the calm before the storm?
Weary resignation mixed with uncertainty as to the actual details of how bad it is going to be.
The certainties are:
1. It will make us worse off economically than if we hadn't done this stupid thing.
2. There will be a large degree of national humiliation involved.
3. There will be a lot of angry gammons shouting "but this isn't what I voted for" and they will be able to focus there anger on.....
4. There will be a lot of grownups saying "I told you so".
