Violence? Have I missed something?
Looks like a post has been removed Dazh. I don’t think it was meant literally anyway. Just talk.
I don’t think it was meant literally anyway. Just talk.
I see. Oh well, wouldn't be the first time I've been threatened by someone working in that industry. Doubt it'll be the last either.
It’s not a case of going back to a particular date, but a case of allowing the land to revert to whatever natural state it would be in without human intervention
In many areas that would take centuries if ever happen as there are no native trees left to seed
you would also get a lot of scrub, heather and bracken
You cannot just "allow the land to revert" as its not going to do so. The amimal mix has changed from pre human times and that has huge effects on regeneration. climate has changed, you have to include people in the mix
this means it has to be a managed process and thus you need an end point to aim at.
Well sometimes decisions have to made for the greater good. Brexit is not that greater good, but sometimes the ends justify the means. It’s a valid point about those jobs going elsewhere, but saying ‘if we don’t do it someone else will’ isn’t really a defence.
You sound like Fatcha in 1983
In many areas that would take centuries if ever happen as there are no native trees left to seed
Except they don't do that. They give it a head start by tree-planting and the introduction of key species to accelerate the process. There's been a lot of success around the world with trophic rewilding. I'm no expert but there's plenty info out there. Here's one from a quick google..
https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/10.1098/rstb.2017.0432
I'm not sure dazh has it the right way round
Forcing people out of work BEFORE a UBI is in place is just putting families into destitution out of spite?
If you rewild and set a side agricultural land for othrr use you are shifting the burden of damage elsewhere in the world, not to mention air miles etc.
UK agricultural land on the whole is dead (by this i mean it requires huge volumes of fertiliser to actually get anything to grow) and in many cases now due to climate change volumes of water not previously required.
We have a problem no none with a brain can doubt that... but shifting to another country is not the answer.
UBI and a reduced working week will become inevitable in the second half of this century... automation is removing jobs from many industries and this will increase at a phenomenal rate simply because it makes more profits in the medium to long term.
Traditional skills like Accountancy, Financial Services, any form of commercial driving, fruit/veg picking, retail, Hospitality, manufacturing are all consigned to History before the end of this century.
UBI and a reduced working week will become inevitable in the second half of this century
Chinese will have no interest in funding that, probably exterminate us instead.
UK agricultural land on the whole is dead (by this i mean it requires huge volumes of fertiliser to actually get anything to grow)
If we've already damaged the land to the point where we can't grow anything without fertilisers, then that's even more reason to stop doing it. In any case I doubt that's true. The land will recover, it might take a bit more time but it's plainly wrong to say it's 'dead'.
Forcing people out of work BEFORE a UBI
Or find them new jobs by creating new industries as I mentioned above with rewiliding. Farming animals isn't the only thing we can do with land. We've been subsidising farmers for god knows how long in any case, so it would be better to shift those subsidies to rewilding and other activities.
UK agricultural land on the whole is dead (by this i mean it requires huge volumes of fertiliser to actually get anything to grow)
If we’ve already damaged the land to the point where we can’t grow anything without fertilisers, then that’s even more reason to stop doing it. In any case I doubt that’s true. The land will recover, it might take a bit more time but it’s plainly wrong to say it’s ‘dead’.
Correct, most land in the UK will grow plants even though the soil is frequently considered "degraded", the issue we have is that we grow monoculture and desired yields require supercharging growth through fertiliser. We also sterilise the soil with herbicide, fungicide, pesticides etc which further degrades the soil.
UK farmland, if managed correctly, could be restored fairly quickly but yield would be lower and produce would be less "clean" (weed seed in grain, etc) than industry require at the moment. We would also have to take our chances with pests and diseases, although mixed planting (within or between crops) and broadening germplasm variety of crops could mitigate some of the issues alongside increased ecosystem diversity helping to suppress disease.
We still need to feed our population?
You can't just rewild, importing food just moves the problem.
Also it takes a long time for soil to rebuild its fertility- many many years.
UBI and a reduced working week will become inevitable in the second half of this century…
Unless of course people vote otherwise. If you’re ruling out governments just allowing people to starve and work unnecessarily long hours, I wouldn’t. Nor would I rule out people voting for that, even when it is they and their families that feel the pain. They may well do just that to make others suffer more, and because they buy into nonsensical arguments (as many have in the UK in recent years… see this thread and its predecessor).
You can’t just rewild, importing food just moves the problem.
The theory is that we'd need less land overall. Although I'm not sure if in the UK alone we have enough land suitable for vegetables that would allow us to end up with the same proportion of imported food.
Trade deal with Ghana announced today by Truss.
Farage heralding the return to empire commonwealth.
(Unless any of them want to come here of course.)
68% down.
Gove isn't very popular, shockingly...
I've heard rumours that crossings for freight are running at capacity due to the extra checks, the customs checkpoints couldn't cope with any more freight coming through. If we're at that stage already with that little amount of movement then we're royally screwed when things pick up or the full checks arrive in July. This sums things up nicely:
The government response is just deny, deny, which really says it all.
‘We’ve had enough of exports...’
Please tell me that ^^^ is a newspaper headline!
Is it time for Labour to be brave enough to start properly pointing out that Johnson and Gove “got Brexit wrong”? If you wanted Brexit, and still welcome the fact we are not EU members, can you really look at this government, and the way they have delivered Brexit, and be thinking “well done, job done”? Can the government now be criticised openly on Brexit without the charge of “ignoring the will of the people” sticking to those who want to stand up for farmers, the fishing community, UK manufacturers using components of mixed origin, musicians, students, SME specialist retailers, hospitals, consumers, lorry drivers, cancer patients, NI shop keepers…?
Just checking 🙄
Is it time for Labour to be brave enough to start properly pointing out that Johnson and Gove “got Brexit wrong”?
In case you hadn't noticed, labour aren't doing too well right now. Behind in the polls, Starmer having to apologise to Boris and generally looking a bit lost, producing a laughable policy report suggesting they dress smarter, and you want them to give all the tory press the opportunity to call them remoaners again?
@dazh - they are behind (Politico has them 3% behind) but have made massive ground since the election. There is an argument that they should be ahead because of how poor this government is but I think that so many of the press outlets are sympathetic to Johnson and his chronies that many people still believe the propoganda that Brexit is a success and they have done a good job against Covid.
Just an observation, I don't have an affiliation to any party in particular.
and you want them to give all the tory press the opportunity to call them remoaners again?
I'll take that as a no.
So, Labour can't hold the government to account for failing to deliver on Brexit?
I don't know a single person who voted Leave and thinks the government are doing well... as regards exports, Northern Ireland, students, fisherman, farmers... there must be the opportunity to focus on the fact that Johnson and Gove have "got Brexit wrong"... there is no "remain" to remoan about... we're no longer EU members... but now the government have to deliver... or can they fail on everything without being challenged by the opposition... because... what... the press won't like it? I see the press pointing out that Northern Ireland, exporting, fishing and farming are all in a mess... even the "tory press" are doing this... so... a chance to get the government on the ropes... with the support of people who welcomed Brexit, but still want their government to deliver?
Starmers problem is not him its the lack of a first class front bench, he simply doesn't have any robust individuals. This has been highlighted by Ed Milibands destruction of Boris - no disrespect to Ed but if he is the most effective political opponent you have after Starmer then there is a problem.
He cant win without a better team.
Starmers problem is not him its the lack of a first class front bench
Miliband is the only one on the front bench even remotely performing and Starmer looks every bit as clueless as the rest of them. Funny really because I'm sure we were promised that the professionals would be back once Corbyn was gone. Anyway wrong thread, but to get it back on topic Starmers decision to shut up about brexit is the only good one he's made.
He’s right to shut up about EU membership. Holding the government to account for the mess they are making doesn’t require a return to preBrexit arguments and sentiments… those that are pleased we have left the EU still want the government and opposition engaged on fishing, farming and exports more generally… our entertainment industry undergoing the double whammy of Covid and no visa waivers for tours… the impact on Universities and students… and then there is the Northern Ireland situation, which can’t just be ignored. And of course the perhaps more petty problems our newly segmented market will create for consumers. Pinning the upcoming Rip-off Britain narrative on this government should start now. Voters will notice that stuff, even if they don’t understand the bigger picture problems.
Hmm must admit to having a chuckle over the original Boris lies of making us back into a great trading nation and the reality is now just moving something 20 miles is a total nightmare.
(Just noticed the mixed metaphors 🙂 good ole Boris sums it all up as the boat/plane/rocket you always wanted)
...newly forged United Kingdom on the slipway...
When you think about it, that's the perfect metaphor given that forged components are generally solid, heavy lumps of metal that will sink without trace as soon as they're chucked in water. 🙁
Great photo of Benny Hill in that Spectator piece.
That bit in Boris' speech about NZ and Wales is a great metaphor for Brexit as a whole. Yes Wales may be technically closer to Beijing than NZ in a straight line, but by boat, which is how you'd send most stuff? Twice as far.
There’s still, even after the vaccine fumble, a lot of pro-EU sentiment out there. Surprising. Hopeful.
newly forged United Kingdom on the slipway
I read forged as "fraudulently made to look like something hhat it isn't ".......... Probably not what he was aiming for. Still, nice of him to finally admit it.
even after the vaccine fumble,
Would there have even been a fumble if we were still members and hadn't taken a chance that the vaccines were viable?
The amusing thing about the vaccine "fumble" is that the UK is spinning it as an EU failure. Anyone watching closly would have noticed that the Art 16 lasted until AZ and Pfizer gave some assurances on delivery dates which removed the need for it.
We won't ever know what went on behind the scenes but you can be sure it was the final nail in the coffin of any EU good will towards the UK.
In other news that tit Justin from the Darkness was on Sky earlier from Zurich whinging about touring costs under the new rules. Questions complicit tit journalist didn't ask:
"
You are worth about 8million - is that why you have moved to Switzerland?
Why is a man worth 8 million moaning about everything except tax costing double in Switzerland?
If moving everything to tour from the UK is such a headache why don't you do what you do when you tour the US: hire European trucks, kit and people that won't need any form filling at all?
Do you and your family speak German?
Do your kids go to a Swiss German school?
"
Some people still haven't understood, no more cake Justin.
"The amusing thing about the vaccine “fumble” is that the UK is spinning it as an EU failure."
Is that what the Americans are doing as well? I looked to CNN for a neutral perspective on the issue and they seemed to see it as an EU and not a UK failure and CNN haven't exactly been Brexit cheerleaders.
51st state, Inkster.
Wasn't the EU's failure AZ's inability to deliver what they contracted to deliver?
The EU's failure was the way in which they hastily invoked the Irish border get out clause. This could be the reason CNN saw it the way they did rather than and 51st State analogy.
The EU took a contractual issue and made it into a political one.
You seem to have missed that the result of the political strop was AZ promising 9 million extra doses for the first quarter, Inkster, taking the Q1 total to 40. The Art 16 move had the desired result.
I read it in les Echos, I don't know if CNN reported that.
It always looked like brinkmanship and arse covering from. VDL
It may well have been effective in getting some more doses from. AZ, tho im sure they were doing what they could anyway , but certainly not the commissions finest hour, not least for giving Johnson the moral high ground!
I thought VDLs interview was surprisingly honest, admittig to mistakes, in a way you would never see Johnson do!
I thought VDLs interview was surprisingly honest, admittig to mistakes, in a way you would never see Johnson do!
Yes, but when you have got to where you have in life by bullshitting then you can't afford to let the mask slip in front of your dupes. Von Der Leyen is a fundamentally capable and competent political individual. Johnson is an actor, a bluffer and a liar.
Brexit effect: No custard creams for Brits in Europe
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/business-55985956
From the BBC report about renaming fish to make them more palatable to the British & I just couldn't ignore this
Paul Trebilcock from the CFPO said: "There is something about the names that has negative connotations."
Nobody ever took the wee wee wee.