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My take on this is that on many occasions people are more swayed by emotion than logic.
When those emotions are stoked up fear, anger and intolerance etc it's a powerful concoction.
It can only be “shit for brains stupidity” combined with a large dose of selfishness and xenophobia.
Overly simple answers to complex problems is exactly how we ended up in this position.
nope, shit for brains stupidity is exactly why we are where we are
Overly simple answers to complex problems is exactly how we ended up in this position.
Maybe.
Care to have a go at explaining it without invoking:
a) Stupidity
b) Gullibility
c) Racism
d) Xenophobia
e) Any combination of the above
???
nope, shit for brains stupidity is exactly why we are where we are
100%
I've given up expecting anyone who wanted this to realise, though.
The only question of relevance now is how much economic and geopolitical damage 'we' can tolerate before we go cap in hand back to the EU.
Or, more likely, take the weasely option and pay miles over the odds to go back into a few bits by stealth.
****tery. Pure and simple.
****tery. Pure and simple.
Some people will do anything to a get fancy wallpaper and a camouflaged sofa.
As long as they aren't picking up the tab.
In more good Brexit news, Arlene Foster being given the boot marks the victory of the more hardline Unionists (by their standards, she’s actually regarded as a moderate).
It’s the elections for the Northern Irish Assembly next year and if the hardline ‘no surrender’ unionists can get a majority they can vote to unilaterally void the Northern Ireland protocol. Another little gem of a clause that Boris and Lord Frost negotiated.
That would spell the end of the GFA and unleash one almighty shitstorm, probably of the explodey variety
The alternative outcome is that the unionist vote is split between the DUP and the more hardline unionist minority parties, which would deliver a majority for Sinn Fein who could then appoint a first minister who could then set an agenda for unification.
Imagine how that’s going to go down with Boris and co in Westminster?
Either way, things are about to get pretty bloody ‘lively’ in NI
Brexit. The gift that just keeps giving.
^^^^
There's at least one more iteration of Brexity/extremist bellendery to come in terms of both the Prime Minister and DUP leadership. After that, who knows?
The electorate grow up?
We descend into some kind of failed state, extremist shithole*.
*More than 'we' are now, that is.
Imagine how that’s going to go down with Boris and co in Westminster?
I doubt very much he gives a shit any more. He knows he is going to go down in history as the shambling conman who sold his country down the river and restarted civil war in NI.
Unless he really is utterly bereft of any brain cells, he 'should' be in full 'empty the till, burn the place down and try to claim on the insurance' mode. The only thing he has ever shown any ability/diligence at has been self-promotion.
What about another approach? Brexit was sold as bringing back sovereignty, removing corrupt Brussels bureaucrats, global Britain. What the tories are giving us is corruption, basket case Britain and the breakup of the UK. Isn’t this an open goal?
Isn’t this an open goal?
Depends on how highly you rate the intelligence of the electorate.
Depends on how highly you rate the intelligence of the electorate.
This. Starmer is frightened to shoot at that open goal because a majority of his potential voters still think Brexit is a great idea. Criticising it is though to be electorally dangerous.
They don’t need to criticise Brexit. They need to criticise the tories for doing the opposite of what they promised Brexit was going to deliver
They don’t need to criticise Brexit. They need to criticise the tories for doing the opposite of what they promised Brexit was going to deliver
Most people haven't felt any effects yet. People that vote for the likes of Johnson don't give a **** about anyone but themselves and those close to them.
onewheelgood
Full MemberThis. Starmer is frightened to shoot at that open goal because a majority of his potential voters still think Brexit is a great idea. Criticising it is though to be electorally dangerous.
Which is nonsense, of course- you can say "boris johnston's terrible brexit deal is causing this" without saying "brexit is bad". Of course brexit is bad and of course Starmer thinks brexit is bad and that does make it trickier but he can't just avoid the whole b-word. Even the biggest brexiteer can still be convinced that there are individual parts of it that are bad. Or, with a little luck, that the glorious brexit that they expected is being undermined by things that Johnston and his idiots have done.
Most people haven’t felt any effects yet. People that vote for the likes of Johnson don’t give a **** about anyone but themselves.
Ftfy. Yet to meet someone who admits to voting tory and has a sense of community that extends further than their own skin.
Nah, I know community minded people who vote Tory, and voted Brexit… they just think it can be all done on an adhoc basis between people, without national government help, or cooperation between nations. How they can still think that after the last 12 months I don’t know, but that idea runs deep in a lot of people.
Be interesting to see how locals play out in fishing communities
Yes, could be a good predictor for when Brexits real fallout hits all the other areas of the country.
I suspect Covid will take the heat for much of that for many years to come though. The next decade won't be pretty.
The joy of it of course is that Johnson will do his time, the shit will hit the fan in a very slow motion way, individual sections of society will find themselves on their arses at different times, and when it gets really bad the 1922 lot will be able to point at Johnson as a scapegoat. 'we never wanted it to be like this - this isn't the Brexit any of us voted for!' Gaslight the whole country. Again.
Hey ho. Of course Labour have been complicit in it all but they just have to hope that they can get more of it to stick to the Tories come the next election.
Overly simple answers to complex problems is exactly how we ended up in this position.
No that's not correct.
Brexit was sold as a simple solution to a complex problem that primarily was not the fault of EU membership.
Pointing out that Brexiteers (allegedly) have shit for brains is an observation, not a solution.
Pointing out that Brexiteers
(allegedly)have shit for brains is an observation, not a solution.
There's only two types of people that genuinely think Brexit is a good idea:
1. People who are using it to gain personally - either financially or politically.
2. People with shit for brains.
@dannyh - I object to your second category! Shit has a practical use (just not between people's ears)
Shit has a practical use (just not between people’s ears)
Shit is very fertile. You just plant a seed and off you go. Dominic Cummings realised this.
Pointed this out a few times, most brexity folks have seen no change to their personal circumstances...
In the shadow of covid which has changed many folks personal circumstances Brexit is fine.
Many people view no change as a victory, people in my family included.
Those who are suffering (Fishing, importers, exporters and people with expensive hobbies ahem!) Are numerically tiny and will not swing an election.
Hartlepool is your metric.... Boris is bullet proof with these folks.
I know people who have had their business disappear overnight, but in the grand scheme they are not even collateral damage.
Good old Joseph Stalin understood the "electorate" better than any modern politician as he said the death of one man is a tragedy, the death of millions is a statistic and no one cares about statistics. By the way Cummins is a big fan of Stalins thinking.
The Conservative Party is not a party but a conspiracy … the great vested interests handed together in a formidable federation; corruption at home, aggression to cover it up abroad, the trickery of tariff juggles, the tyranny of a party machine, sentiment by the bucketful, patriotism by the imperial pint, the open hand at the public Exchequer.
Billy Blyton- a proper Labour Lion.
It's an open goal, the problem is that the ball is a balloon. You can strike hard and accurately but it won't go in.
In other words, you can point out how stupid Brexit is and how corrupt and clueless the Tories are til you're blue in the face, but people just aren't listening.
Those with long memories may remember me ordering a Brompton at the end of March. 😉 It's here! waiting to be picked up from the shop in Bayonne. 🙂 The UPS tracking runs to 27 lines. The poor people at Brompton have spent (wasted) I don't know how much time chasing and waded through I don't know how much paperwork for one bike. Thanks if anyone from Brompton is on the forum.
I'm not sure "happy birthday" is appropriate but at wave at those in NI remembering 1921.
Good news! And sounds familiar. Tracing the path of orders crossing UK borders these days is depressing. Not least for the energy wasted on the journey. Not exactly green.
Well at least we beat the EU to a trade deal with India, we showed them pesky foreign blighters.
Or, more likely, take the weasely option and pay miles over the odds to go back into a few bits by stealth.
Kinda like Norway then. The people voted to not be in but their leaders knew that Norway would benefit, so they paid more per capita for their 'part-membership' than the UK paid for our full-membership (and opt-outs).
I think that will be exactly how it plays out.
Say your out, wave the flags a bit and hope no-one notices the reality.
Well at least we beat the EU to a trade deal with India, we showed them pesky foreign blighters.
Except that it isn't actually a trade deal, it's just part of business as usual. And it's one ninth of the similar announcement made in 2015, when we were still in the EU. But the media are doing their bit for the Tories propaganda effort by helpfully refraining from pointing any of this out.
https://twitter.com/fascinatorfun/status/1389518573849227265
Exactamundo and as the real news is that the EU are actually sat negotiating the real deal as we speak, but you've got to have some fluff so our lot don't look the bell ends they are.
This year's best seller?
No English version until October though.
No English version until October though.
You forgot to add on any lead time for importing them too.
I expect to witness a pile of them being burned at some point during 2022 - possibly with a Polish delicatessen with smashed windows in the background.
The UK’s early problem, writes Michel Barnier in The Great Illusion, his 500-page account, was that they began by “talking to themselves. And they underestimate the legal complexity of this divorce, and many of its consequences.”
Lovely use of understatement.
Soon, however, the talking turned to Conservative party infighting, and by the end it had become “political piracy … They will go to any length. The current team in Downing St is not up to the challenges of Brexit nor to the responsibility that is theirs for having wanted Brexit. Simply, I no longer trust them.”
Nor do we mate. Well, oddly, millions do... desite... well... everything.
Glad the bike showed up Ed.
Ups for us have reached new heights. A parcel shipped to Germany 3 months ago has turned up and we were asked for customs clearance information. Well, that was all provided when we first shipped it in February as you might imagine, but now some bright spark in ups has decided the package needs a new label (I wonder if this is related to the fact you cannot track a parcel beyond 3 months on their system?) we have to provide the information again as it is effectively a new shipment.🙄
This could be a fun little read.
Barnier's got a book out. Well, he will have imminently, and in French, English version later this year.
I might well buy Barnier's book. It will be like watching The Office as David Brent tries to lie, wriggle, scam and bullshit his way through life. The only problem being that Johnson is doing the David Brent thing with a whole country rather than a paper merchant sub office.🤦♂️
We've had the cod war, now the knitwear war.
Why aren't they protecting Cardigan?
cougar – see 4 posts above yours!
Yeah, sorry. It's a 200+ page thread, I'm playing catchup.
now some bright spark in ups has decided the package needs a new label
Yep, 2 x times this year with ups when sending stuff back to Sweden (Revolution Race - great kit 😊).
Start playing the land of hope and glory...and fire up the spitfires.
Not sure escalating anything with France will end well for us, it’s not like they haven’t already started blockading stuff 🙂
I might well buy Barnier’s book. It will be like watching The Office as David Brent tries to lie, wriggle, scam and bullshit his way through life
I’d wait for the Netflix series,the comedy based on real events 🙂
Not sure escalating anything with France will end well for us
It will help those currently in the UK government to stay in power. That’s all that matters. As someone wiser than me said in this thread, Brexit isn’t an event, it’s an ongoing project to rule and transform the UK in the interests of a very narrow group of people. I called that the “gunboat” headlines would be a regular feature of election cycles once we had left the EU back in 2016. No one should be surprised. And I recall posting on here about a chat I had with a retired Saint Helier civil servant who sad that Brexit would completely drop them in it, because they were beneficiaries of us and France being EU members, but had no say in that ending or in what follows.
Could the channel Islands rejoin the EU in some way? They'd want to keep their UK tax haven side but I imagine they'd be in a good position to negotiate a deal.
They were never in the EU, but did benefit from UK & France being in it together. It doesn’t hugely matter whether they are in or nor not, what matters for them is that the UK is not in it. Them joining would solve very little for them, they’d still suffer from the UK being out.
It will help those currently in the UK government to stay in power. That’s all that matters.
I'm sure that a lot of Boris's mates will also be reassured that he's prepared to send some gunboats out to defend the tax haven where they all stash their cash.
Todays newspaper headlines should rally the Tory vote.....
So were the French deliberately provoked to provide a perfect jingoistic tub-thumping session for the Brexies, or just normal greed/incompetence. I guess the latter.
The UK & EU deciding retrospectively Xmas eve 2020 that a full year of precise records for the year just gone would be required for the new UK issued licences is the issue. Plenty of greed and incompetence allegations to throw about. French fisherfolk has as much say in that half cocked deal as Scottish and English fisherfolk... that is.. zero.
Its baffling that there are any issues with this fishing bill, given the painstaking attention to detail that went into its negotiation from the Brexiteers
Fisheries minister did not read Brexit bill as she was busy at nativity
Well the TT computer mounts we sent over for a Giro team look like they are finally out for delivery after being sent on a 2-day service last Monday. All requested documentation was supplied and supplied again x3. I'm not sure whether the issue is with the courier or Italy interpretation of the rules but needless to say this would not have happened pre-Brexit.
All our shipping costs have gone up. An express service to the EU nake 2-3 days and costs more than a next day service to the US. And our EU customers then get the kick in the face of paying an exorbitant courier handling charge.
Its baffling that there are any issues with this fishing bill, given the painstaking attention to detail that went into its negotiation from the Brexiteers
Nativity trail? Matthew 4:18-22 seems appropriate at this point - the fishing industry can just cast down its nets and become fishers of men. Or work in cyber, or something.
Apparently, according to a member of the Jersey government just interviewed on Five Live, any disputes just used to be settled over a glass of wine.
Now they have to talk to Westminster, who talk to the EU in Brussels, who then talk to the government in Paris who then talk to the French Fisherman.
Still.... at least Brexit got rid of all that needless red tape, eh?
The French Navy are there now. This is all going well then?
The French Navy are there now. This is all going well then?
It’s going very well if you are a Tory looking for votes in the local elections
Indeed. In a statement as depressing as it was predictable, a UK government spokesman has just said "at least the Nazi's kept the lights on" with reference to the French government.
Yes, because Macron is just like Hitler.
Maybe, when referring to the Nazis, the Brexiteers might be better off watching this
Indeed. In a statement as depressing as it was predictable, a UK government spokesman has just said “at least the Nazi’s kept the lights on” with reference to the French government.
That's a joke, yes?
I'm afraid not, no. You can't be remotely surprised? Mark Francois and his ilk are going to be thwapping themselves stupid over all this. The Torygraph is very excited
‘At least the Nazis kept the lights on’: UK hits out at French threats to Jersey
And then theres this...
https://twitter.com/ITVChannelTV/status/1390209161317728257?s=20
There are no words....
Oh, I see, the Telegraph put it out there... so pretty much a joke.
This is just episode one of what Johnson actually means when he signs 'a deal'. The other party think he's signing in both the spirit and letter of the agreement. In fact he has his fingers crossed behind his back and is thinking up ways to wriggle out of stuff on trumped up technicalities.
All wizard pranks and laughs, but what it means in the longer term is that other countries will be wary of signing 'deals' too. And will thus either extract more concessions or make the deal so watertight that it can't be wriggled out of, or just not bother.
All this damages the credibility of this country and makes life more difficult in the future. Still, blue passports and the gammons got to wave plaggy union jacks (made in China) around for a bit.
How have we stopped so low?
🤦♂️
I think this one might be the other way around… we’ve got the EU to agree to new mind numbingly boring red tape for those that want to fish in crown waters around the Channel Islands… and the French are hoping that we’ll apply the policies liberally rather than fastidiously, and we have done so for a few months, but now want all the boxes ticking, knowing that the French small boats don’t really have the records to do so. This also dovetails in nicely with the fact that those small boats are after shellfish that Cornish and Scottish fisherfolk can no longer sell to the EU, so the suspicion on “our side” is that they are trying to catch more from waters off Jersey than they have historically to help meet demand.
I thought it was because the permit/licence paperwork ran to several pages with practically impossible hoops to jump through when 'we' had specifically told the French it wouldn't....?
This really is how it is going to be - when it is to 'our' advantage the paperwork will be 20 pages long, but 'we' will moan when the reciprocal paperwork is also 20 pages long because... El Alamein or something...
n a statement as depressing as it was predictable, a UK government spokesman has just said “at least the Nazi’s kept the lights on” with reference to the French government.
The correct reply is:
When it comes to Jersey the Nazis actually managed to build a hospital there. Johnson has promised 40 and how many has the fat lying bastard actually managed?
This really is how it is going to be – when it is to ‘our’ advantage the paperwork will be 20 pages long, but ‘we’ will moan when the reciprocal paperwork is also 20 pages long because… El Alamein or something…
Of course, it should be none of "our" business... but part of "taking back control" included taking control from the crown dependencies as regards "their" water. It's all a Westminster power grab and a costly painful bureaucracy multiplying exercise.
How’s this refocusing of exports to other countries going post Brexit? Pretty well, it seems…
https://twitter.com/dennisnovy/status/1390698711500705796?s=21
Start playing the land of hope and glory
oh there are people genuinely saying this should be played at foreign fishing vessels from our gunboats on facebook.
Looks like you’ve got to be a bit careful in the details of your trade deals when it comes to Freeports 🙂
Who woulda thunk it.
(Cut and paste baaad)
Freeports, loved by criminals, corrupt politicians and gullible voters the world over.
@dudeofdoom if you've read it can you post a few lines of summary please?
How are we all doing for stock shortages btw? In B&Q there were some gaps on the shelves yesterday. Almost no hose sprayers available at all, and a few other sections completely bare. Not a big problem but strange to see.
A little precis:
officials disclosed on Sunday that the trade agreements with 23 different countries included clauses that prohibit manufacturers in freeports from benefiting from the deals.
Labours saying the clauses could have been removed from the deals.
^^^^
But remember...
We've had enough of 'experts' you hand-wringing, pinko, metrosexual elite folk.
You can get round the FT paywall by putting the title (verbatim) into google, in thise case
UK freeports blow as exporters face tariffs to 23 countries