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The media are now reporting a possible Islamic terrorist link.
It seems to be non stop at the moment, what is the ultimate aim? Do they want right wing parties elected throughout Europe? Civil war? More Trumpesque travel bans? This is a campaign they can't win surely.
Not that you can make the assumption that there is any organised motive to it, but right wing governments in Europe, travel bans etc are actually pretty good for ISIS in terms of recruitment and funding.
News report I heard this morning said it could be right wing fans. Who knows but it is very odd.
the point of terrorism os to make us all scared an unable to go about ur daily business
Pretty much any disruption achieves this aim
Lets look at the positives here
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2017/apr/11/borussia-dortmund-monaco-beds-for-away-fans
Dortmund fans give Monaco fans a bed and meal for the night so they can stay and watch tomorrow- that is how you deal with this
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Yes that's one positive Junkyard, but the real negative is that terrorists currently seem to be able to attack nearly anywhere at will.
This is the strategy: do random attacks and create Islamophobia, which helps radicalise more people.
badnewz - Member
This is the strategy: do random attacks and create Islamophobia, which helps radicalise more people.
and hopefully destabilise the government and Europe further, the islamists would like nothing more than a far right party to win power in germany and increase tensions, its why Brexit works so well for them, a disunited foe is easier to attack, weve even threatened to stop sharing security info with the EU!!
Yep they want to stoke the right wing, stoke the left wing, create political divisions in general. Russia is also doing its bit to inflame the situation.
islamists would like nothing more than a far right party to win power in germany
Do you think so? Surely ultimately it would work against them? They'd probably have to leave.Edit: I don't know why it reversed the quote???
My next question is who was responsible for this Trojan horse policy?
Over the last 6 months I feel that now when attacks happen less and less people are blaming Islam and are starting to realise that it's extremists. I think (hope) people are getting more educated. If every muslim in the world hated the west enough to want to kill them we'd know about it pretty quick.
but the real negative is that terrorists currently seem to be able to attack nearly anywhere at will.
Seriously? Don't be daft! Thats obviously what they'd like you to think. In reality this doesn't seem to me like any kind of organised campaign. far from it! Compare that to what they IRA were doing in the 70's and 80's to see what a genuine one of those looks like!
It seems to me like a few lone nutters, mostly completely ineffectual, loosly banded together by some whacky belief in loads of virgins when they cark it. They're trying to make it seem like they're all scary. But they're not though, are they? In fact they're a bit shit, really.
In reality the amount of people ever likely to be effected by terror is absolutely miniscule. The threat they pose is totally insignificant. You're more likely to be killed by a falling grand piano, or a mishap involving your Acme rocket powered roller skates...
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We need to keep this in perspective
I'm really not convinced about this attack - it isn't the normal style and scale of your usual Islamic terrorist attack.
It *could* be, but someone should be wearing a "world's crappiest Islamic terrorist" t-shirt if it is.
It seems to me like a few lone nutters, mostly completely ineffectual
Mmm yes they were very ineffectual at Westminster just the 5 innocent people killed there. But we didn't know them personally so that's ok right?
No.... its not ok. Where did I suggest that?
Like I said, its all about perspective. Forget all the hysterical media nonsense and focus on the facts
So in the last ten years, how many people have been killed by islamic terrorists in the UK?
*Warning, huge oversimplification ahead*
The various militant groups have differing end goals from the removal of unbelievers from Muslim Lands (Al Qaeda) To the reestablishment of the Caliphate at it's peak (IS/ISIS).
One thing they have in common is that they see the best way to achieve this is a holy war with the 'West' whose values they see as having a corrosive effect on what they regard as 'proper' Islam and the first step towards this is to convince their fellow Muslims that the 'unbelievers' are out to get them and that Islam and modern liberal democracy are mutually incompatible. They need to drive a wedge between Muslims and every one else.
Hence why knee-jerk idiocy like Trump's Muslim ban plays straight into their hands, it gives them something to point to that shows how secular liberal societies will always reject them, regardless of how they behave.
And as for their capacity to attack anywhere at will, come on!
The Westminster attack was one plonker in a car, he didn't even have a gun. Ten years ago they were pulling off large scale coordinated bombings, now anything that big gets uncovered and shut down so quickly that they're relying on incompetent, untrained lone wolf nutters because that's the only thing they have a chance of pulling off undetected.
So, is it 'good?' No. and my heart goes out to those affected by it but it's pretty ineffectual, 9/11 changed the course of history, The Madrid bombings brought down a government, the Westminster attack changed... a few commuter's travel plans, I'm in London fairly frequently, I was close to where it happened only on Monday, you'd never guess anything had happened.
They're not winning.
Militant Islam basically want to provoke an attack on them, all these atrocities are aimed at that. (And I assume by extension they would quite like westerners to firebomb a few mosques to increase mistrust between Muslims and non-Muslims which makes a holy war more likely.)
Detail here:
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/03/what-isis-really-wants/384980/
However, I'm pretty sure the lone Western Born c***s carrying out these attacks in Europe are just werido misfits with personality disorders and aren't naturally well balanced people with a clear plan to start a holy war.
One thing they have in common is that they see the best way to achieve this is a holy war with the 'West' whose values they see as having a corrosive effect on what they regard as 'proper' Islam and the first step towards this is to convince their fellow Muslims that the 'unbelievers' are out to get them and that Islam and modern liberal democracy are mutually incompatible. They need to drive a wedge between Muslims and every one else.
This.
And as for their capacity to attack anywhere at will, come on!
The Westminster attack was one plonker in a car, he didn't even have a gun. Ten years ago they were pulling off large scale coordinated bombings, now anything that big gets uncovered and shut down so quickly that they're relying on incompetent, untrained lone wolf nutters because that's the only thing they have a chance of pulling off undetected.
So, is it 'good?' No. and my heart goes out to those affected by it but it's pretty ineffectual, 9/11 changed the course of history, The Madrid bombings brought down a government, the Westminster attack changed... a few commuter's travel plans, I'm in London fairly frequently, I was close to where it happened only on Monday, you'd never guess anything had happened.
They're not winning.
...and this.
Seriously? Don't be daft! Thats obviously what they'd like you to think. In reality this doesn't seem to me like any kind of organised campaign. far from it! Compare that to what they IRA were doing in the 70's and 80's to see what a genuine one of those looks like!It seems to me like a few lone nutters, mostly completely ineffectual, loosly banded together by some whacky belief in loads of virgins when they cark it. They're trying to make it seem like they're all scary. But they're not though, are they? In fact they're a bit shit, really.
...and this.
outofbreath is spot on- talking about the "ultimate aim" when it comes to the lone arseholes doesn't make any sense when they're not working in association with anyone or in accordance with a bigger plan. ISIS claims responsibility but then ISIS claim responsibility whenever someone breaks wind loudly.
(Ironically, seeing it/treating it/reporting it as all interlinked gives an impression of much greater threat than really exists and probably helps motivate lone arseholes as they're more likely to see themselves as part of something bigger)
Outofbreath, i may disagree strongly with your feelings on Putin but at least we agree on this.
Whilst I'm sure the people who do the online radicalizing have some kind of greater plan (as briefly summarized above) the fact is that the only people they seem to be able to attract these days are of such low caliber that very rudimentary lone wolf actions are the best they can get out of them.
They're clutching at straws, the Al Qeada of the late 90's wouldn't have given these muppets the time of day.
I'm not saying there won't be another large scale attack in the U.K. but a combination of our intelligence services increasing ability to disrupt plots and our laws (i.e. you can't legally buy an assault rile here) has made their lives much, much harder and this shows in the diminishing returns their efforts are having.
Don't listen to professional panic mongers, they're doing IS's work for them.
I have always maintained there should be no connection reported with any religion/nationality/race etc in events like this. a simple 'terrorist attack'is all that is needed. the perpetrator is then just seen as a terrorist and no-one gets radicalised, no one distrusts a particular group of people or a belief. Takes the wind out of their sails and prevents unnecessary tensions.
"Outofbreath, i may disagree strongly with your feelings on Putin"
No you don't. Cite with context the statement you disagree with.
Borussia Dortmund [b]bus[/b] attack
Pedant hat on, it wasnt a bus but a tri axle coach, a coach is built to a higher specification usually has a high floor with luggage holds between the wheel axles, and is not used on stage carriage work.
Where as most buses nowadays are used in stage carriage work, eg picking up at designated bus stops, and have flat floors with no internal steps, on the lower saloon floor.
Strange, you do wonder if the Islamic link is a hoax ? If not good news it wasn't a suicide bomb as they are generally much more deadly.
The point of terrorism is generally to kill enough people to get the other side to give in to your demands
In a lot of these recent cases, the more you look at it, and the people involved, the more mental illness seems to be the issue rather than any particular religion or cause
In a lot of these recent cases, the more you look at it, and the people involved, the more mental illness seems to be the issue rather than any particular religion or cause
In the West, for sure.
I'm pretty sure ISIS are often sincere. They really do want a holy war for religious reasons. But they've been brainwashed with this sh1t all their lives.
You tell me, but 1 is 1 too many isn't it?So in the last ten years, how many people have been killed by islamic terrorists in the UK?
What binners said: Keep it in perspective
Rather than take the propaganda bait hook line and sinker. Divide and conquer and the media lap it up, as do most of the populous.
Seemingly, the people get what the people want. There's loads and loads of good stuff occurring on this planet every day, yet the fear mongering takes centre stage. Unsettling isn't it?
If terrorists were that serious, they could take this country down within 48 hours with a tiny bit of planning and a number of coordinated operatives, without blowing anything up or shooting at anyone.
You could make a choice as to how unsettled you choose to be of course.
votchy - Member
I have always maintained there should be no connection reported with any religion/nationality/race etc in events like this. a simple 'terrorist attack'is all that is needed. the perpetrator is then just seen as a terrorist and no-one gets radicalised, no one distrusts a particular group of people or a belief. Takes the wind out of their sails and prevents unnecessary tensions.
As I've said before, I'd prefer to see the media go further. These are mass murders committed by mass murderers, nothing more. Even referring to them as just 'terrorists' legitimises their actions and their cause.
They're clutching at straws, the Al Qeada of the late 90's wouldn't have given these muppets the time of day.
My lay 'I have no idea what I'm talking about' stab in the dark, would be that they (al Qeada) came first and no one was in any way prepared. Now, security services are prepared, so it's now much more difficult for 'them' to attack on that 90's level of apathy or dis-organisation. Many layers have now been closed out to the amateur assassin, so they are now resorted to driving a lorry at a few people rather than crashing airplanes into buildings. It's got nothing to do with who's more hardcore than who, just what a nut job pleb can now actually achieve undetected. It's still the same shitters, just much reduced freedom of expression.
can't we just refer to them as sad ****ers <followers of onanism>? "Today some sad ****er <onanist> managed to kill/harm some unsuspecting members of the public like a ****ing coward. Screw that guy and the organisation he's supposedly represents, here's some nice people who helped the injured and here's some other news about the event bringing people together."Even referring to them as just 'terrorists' legitimises their actions and their cause.
It's not difficult to be a terrorist, there's no daring, wit or bravado, it's not a fight, it's just a bully sucker punching the weedy kid in the playground while teacher isn't watching.
<edited for clarity after swear filter kicked off>
The one thing I don't understand with all of this is the promise of virgins when you snuff it. I mean, I like shagging as much as the next man, but if I'm going to go to the trouble of killing a load of innocent people and doing myself in in the process, I'd want more in return that some awkward sex with a lass that doesn't really know what she's doing.
Porn stars? Yes! Lara from admin, definitely! Virgin? Not so much. A gaggle of virgins? Even less so. That's a whole heap of awkwardness and crying right there, not to mention the clingyness afterwards....
Flange, your latter point is why the the figure 72 makes sense. Otherwise it's a pretty unambitious/low number for an eternity in paradise.
would be that they (al Qeada) came first and no one was in any way prepared.
There is an aspect of that, but Al Qeada did not suddenly emerge in 2001, they has already launched multiple coordinated attacks on US Embassies (1998), the World Trade Centre (1993) and even a fully armed US Navy Destroyer in 2000 (The USS Cole).
The original core of Al Qeada ('Al Qeada Prime' in intelligence speak) were veterans of the war with the USSR in Afghanistan and the subsequent civil conflict, they were trained (Often by the CIA), disciplined and well connected, a far far more serious and organised threat than what we're seeing now.
Obviously after 9/11 the full might of the industrialized world was brought to bear and one by one the core members were picked off with remainder having to operate under so much secrecy that they were effectively neutralized as they couldn't effectively communicate with the wider organization.
Is it the same 72 you are stuck with for eternity? I imagine they'd get the hang of it soon enough....
^^ yes its the same 72. They wake up each morning virgins again. I assume thats physically virgins but mentally they remember what they are doing ? Clearly all nonsense.
My favourite Charlie Ebdo cartoon was the two terrorists arriving in Heaven to find the CB staff already shagging all the Virgins
Have they considered that when they say virgins, they actually mean the spotty, socially awkward lad they used to go to school with?
Just turn the middle East into a sheet of glass with a few strategically placed bombs seeing as we're going for nuclear disarmament.
Some states get to live and continue their oil production for the West but by and large it's a vile place with warped religious beliefs and should be treated as such.
Anybody kicking off about it in the UK should be placed in an internment camp where they can moan and debate about it there instead. Perhaps they can have access to internet forums full of like minded people or a radio show they can phone in on once a week and do some more virtue signaling over the airwaves?
Oh, if only I had that power.
Remember folks, religion has nothing to do with this.
Islam, religion of peace.
so you propose that and then want to criticise others for not being peaceful 😯
Oh the irony
[url= https://www.theguardian.com/books/2002/jan/12/books.guardianreview5 ]As Luxenberg's work has only recently been published we must await its scholarly assessment before we can pass any judgements. But if his analysis is correct then suicide bombers, or rather prospective martyrs, would do well to abandon their culture of death, and instead concentrate on getting laid 72 times in this world, unless of course they would really prefer chilled or white raisins, according to their taste, in the next.[/url]
Have they considered that when they say virgins, they actually mean the spotty, socially awkward lad they used to go to school with?
That was done in an episode of Family Guy. I seem to remember the suicide bomber entering heaven was asked if he wanted to play Dungeons and Dragons 😆
Investigators in Germany say there is "significant doubt" that Tuesday's attack on the Borussia Dortmund team bus was the work of radical Islamists.
They say letters found at the scene may be an attempt to trick people into thinking there was an Islamist motive.
But they said it may have been the work of political extremists - from the left or right - or violent football fans....
Investigators were still not clear about what kind of attacker might have wished to frame Islamists for an attack, but said the explosives used in the attack were professionally-made.
And another German newspaper, Tagesspiegel, said it had received an email from someone with right-wing motives, who said the attack was a warning and made racist threats.
The authorities are taking that email seriously, the newspaper reported.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-39603467
Bit awkward, eh deviant?
Anybody kicking off about it in the UK should be placed in an internment camp where they can moan and debate about it there instead.
That worked so well in NI when it was tried, why don't you suggest gas chambers while your at it!
So have they decided if it was islamists or neo-nazis?
http://www.tagesspiegel.de/politik/nach-anschlag-auf-bvb-bus-in-dortmund-neues-bekennerschreiben-kuendigt-weiteren-angriff-an/19673754.html
Now that was a surprise. What a loon. All for 5k profit.
tin foil hat time
His KGB links will come out eventually, just like ISIS Putin wants a destabilised and fractured Europe...
joefm - MemberNow that was a surprise. What a loon. All for 5k profit.
And not even a single virgin
