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As a Scottish independence supporter I would prefer Boris to stay. However if he goes may we please have the poundshop Thatcher impersonator Liz?
Ernie - you cannot have it both ways! Either he is as clever as you seen to think thus he must have known (even if after the fact) and is lying or if he didn't know he is even dimer than I think. Lying or incompetence are the only two answers
Also as a student of politics you must know that its often the trivia that gets them. With politicians its what catches the public mood. This is something most folk can relate to and its surrounded with such clear lies that cannot be spun away
The thing with Truss is, she might be popular with the Tory faithful but she doesn’t come across well to a wider audience
The main thing with Liz is the fact that she’s truly as thick as mince. When you see her interviewed, as she’s asked a question, there’s always a second or two’s delay as the cogs start to slowly grind into motion between her ears.
The idea of her being in charge of anything more important than doing the odd Maggie impersonation is terrifying
Being dim doesn't seem limit to being in power.
As long as you can contort words you're golden.
The possibility of getting found out, in any scenario, would be absolutely massive.
Well, you've certainly got your finger on the pulse, eh ernie? I wonder whether this might be the reason the media might be keen on the story? Makes you think.
All the machinations around whether he knew or not, whether Stratton fell on her own sword or was pushed, whether he will "gracefully" step aside. Miss a point that I made early in this thread.
He just does not care what you think. The only people able who's thoughts matter to him are in conversation inside his skull. At CoP he looked like the dumped sofa but he thought he was striking a Churchillian pose and that's all that matters. He does not and will continue to not care what you, the little people, think.
He does not and will continue to not care what you, the little people, think.
I agree.
Plus has surrounded himself with a cabal witha mix of too much to lose, lots to gain or too thick to know.
He does not and will continue to not care what you, the little people, think.
Yep tbh, I think he could have a week ago just opened number 10’s door and stand there er ‘knocking one out’ and it would have made no difference but now I think his arrogance and repeated all “covid rules were followed” mantra isn’t going to make this just go away,it’s a weird one as the joking about on the lantern is probably way more damaging than actual party footage.
Still no imminent election and no electable competition perhaps a few more utterances of levelling up will sort it out.
I’m not sure the establishment journos think much of Stratton - she was a liability for most of her career and especially bad in her Cop 26 Role with all her silly off message ill informed comments.
However it might massively widen the rift between number 10 and the treasury if Johnson did have a hand in her sacrifice as her husband is Sunaks childhood friend and best man.
I would be personally surprised if he had knowingly approved of lockdown breaching parties.
There are reports of him attending two other parties including one in the residential flat. That the investigation has been restricted to just the party on the 18th seems pretty good evidence to me those reports are correct. Terms of reference for "independent" investigations are always handy to ensure they arent actually independent.
^yep ,probably throws more kindling on the fire thou,bloods in the water now.
Fat boys paddling with the sharks circling.
He does not and will continue to not care what you, the little people, think.
He'll never get far as a politician in that case.
He’ll never get far as a politician in that case.
He isn't one. He's a tabloid hack masquerading in politics.
No tears for Shatton, and the thing about Johnson is that whilst sure he's not thick, and I guess may just be playing eight dimensional chess (he isn't), he's been sacked from two jobs so far for lying (should've been more) and is not notorious for his self control or basic competence. This one probably won't get him; the next one will.
Even if he does go, surely any of the present cabinet have shown themselves unfit for high office just by agreeing to be part of a Johnson government?
But then again, BJ's unsuitability was widely known but that didn't stop the Tory party electing him leader and then enough of the electorate electing him PM!
Just when I think the situation can't get any worse, it does!
There must be a trail of receipts for said cheese and wine delivered to No 10 A FOI should be able to flush that out .Or do we pay for an onsite vineyard and cheesemongers for their consumption
We’re not as bad yet, but unless the U.K. branch of the Qnut franchise is shut down, I can see us getting ever closer to how America is now.
That ship has sailed IMO, and Brexit was the 'vehicle' used.
From newspaper stories it seems no one in the parliamentary tory party believe Johnsons denials either. Douglas Ross has even called for him to resign ( if he was lying) Of course that is to a great extent political positioning. Ross knows Johnsons antics will cost the tories sets up here.
Why is Stratton named after a badly made british leyland car that was most often beige?
He doesn't care, in the exact usage, but he does have a feeling for what will be popular, and how to use it to his ends. However Ernie, in much of the above I tihnk you are rather wrong.
My comments added 🙂
I would be personally surprised if he had knowingly approved of lockdown breaching parties. << he won't have approved as there would be nothing to approve. Rules don't apply to him and his friends. Forgiveness better than permission and so on...
Partly because I don’t think he is such a party animal <<he is >> that despite the obvious huge political damage it would with complete certainty cause him, that he would find it irresistible to hold a party in Downing Street <<see earlier>> . The possibility of getting found out, in any scenario, would be absolutely massive.<<Doesn't see problem, neither do chums at the time>> It also seems unfeasible to me that Johnson cares so much about his staff that he would want them to have a jolly when the rest of the country was in lockdown.<<Rules are for the little people. Very simple point to understand>>
I’m really not that hugely bothered whether an alleged party occurred. Which is probably quite a widespread attitude among many people. << Here I tihnk you are incorrect. Many people do care and are f***g tired of this lying , arrogant buffoon, and the consequences of his actions. My yardstick in these things is my Daily Mail reading mother and she is very unimpressed and wants him to resign as she has no faith anymore - nothing he says is to be trusted. And f.w.i.w. that extends to his Brexit promises....
I would also wonder what the Queen thinks. Given that she would remember Winston Churchill very well I am sure the comparison Boris is desperate for is not what he wants
Laughable
https://twitter.com/PoliticsForAlI/status/1468867122323415042?t=k2rvKh27avBORPQ8x7-3MA&s=19
There's a joke in there somewhere about musical pace as well...
I see most of the papers are savaging Johnson on their front pages this morning. Anyone else smell blood in the water?
I guess their chosen successor was at the Party too.
He’ll never get far as a politician in that case.
He isn’t one. He’s a tabloid hack masquerading in politics.
Which is precisely my point. If he doesn't know how to play the game he'll never get very far in politics.
It's not as easy as you might think.
How much further in politics can you get than Prime Minister?
It seems like for ex-journalists like Johnson and Gove it's all just about rearranging words and alternative 'truths' and once people cynically assume that they all lie then no-one can be held to account for anything.
https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1468880339661737987
A comment on that blog seems plausible reaction to all this
"Rumour that recess will be brought forward two days next week to avoid more embarrassment for the PM at next weeks PMQ's, and get MP'S out of Westminster. He is turning this country into a laughing stock."
It’s not as easy as you might think.
Perhaps it's why he keeps making a mess of everything?
A snap shot of the team here at the GP are pretty much going to have a Xmas together with their families regardless of what the rules say, and the reason for that is entire this story. One GP said this morning, "How are we honestly supposed to tell people to try not to mix when these idiots carry on like this?" and he's very much a conservative supporter....
My yardstick in these things is my Daily Mail reading mother and she is very unimpressed and wants him to resign as she has no faith anymore
People knew he was an immoral liar when they elected him though. What's changed?
I also really don't get why, as alluded to by p7eaven, people are saying 'look at these selfish duplicitous tossers not caring about the rules, I'm going to do the same thing now'. Weird.
Stratton was appointed to her spokesperson roll despite a panel recommending she wasn't. They were over-ruled by her friend...Carrie Johnson. Intriguingly, she and her husband are very close to the Sunak's...godparents to each others children and one was a best man to the other's wedding I think. This puts her in a powerful position when it comes to Sunak's inevitable leadership push.
As for Johnson not knowing or sanctioning the party(ies) at No 10. Rubbish. He's arrogant enough to think that all attendees are so loyal to him, it would never leak. Remember the BS about circling the wagons around the 'pritster'? He's stupid enough to play fast and loose with the rules thinking that staff are loyal to him, whilst behaving like a man who's never heard of the word.
They've realised he's not their immoral liar.
If the Mail and Telegraph have the names, then others will too, either now or slightly later.
It isn't the names that are important, anyhow, it's trying to get one of them to confirm that the party happened and the nature of it, and most importantly, whether Bojo popped in for a sherry and a mince pie.
And some Mail hack letting slip that they have the names, and so have the Telegraph, is more likely a ruse to flush someone into talking to them.
The Mail in recent months has not been particularly pro-Boris, to put it mildly. I'm not sure defending his premiership by suppressing a story is a hill they are desperate to die on.
The 'vote of no confidence' stuff is indicative that the Tories are now actively gearing up for a leadership challenge, so the knifing may start pretty quickly.
How much further in politics can you get than Prime Minister?
There was a comment somewhere - maybe on this thread or might have been in the private education one - that the true people in politics are the ones you never see. The advisors, the high-rolling business types in the background donating to the right causes at the right time, the newspaper editors whose headlines can make or break a politician.
Ultimately, [b]that[/b] is how much further you can get in politics - running the country from behind the convenient charade of a puppet PM.
Boris has served his purpose for a lot of people who wanted out of the EU before those pesky tax laws came into force, he's now a liability.
The President's role was to be <b>a figurehead</b>, not necessarily one possessing great leadership skills but more to cause outrage and attract attention. They were apparently chosen by the government but wielded no real power, and they were always a controversial choice of an infuriating but fascinating character.
People knew he was an immoral liar when they elected him though. What’s changed?
I don't think most folks realised quite how chaotic Johnson's personal life actually is, quite how many barefaced lies he's prepared to tell, quite how underprepared he is for the role of PM. I think most voters will forgive quite a few mis-steps, we are all human after all. What don't think people are prepared to do is sign off the quite large blank cheque that life with Johnson as PM requires.
This is after just the latest in a long line, there will be something else in a few weeks time.
People knew he was an immoral liar when they elected him though. What’s changed?
He got Brexit done, he's served his purpose
Carrie just popped out baby number 8 or 9!
So that's him off on paternity leave now to avoid the shitstorm
https://twitter.com/PoliticsForAlI/status/1468885389985435651
Wait, wut? Didn't even realise he was breeding another one.
Imagine getting your wife induced to provide political cover... 🙂
Announced minutes after the announcement that their refurb broke the rules too
The Mail in recent months has not been particularly pro-Boris, to put it mildly. I’m not sure defending his premiership by suppressing a story is a hill they are desperate to die on.
That was under Greig though who has been given the boot and replaced by one of Dacres minions.
More 4D chess from Boris. He knew there would be trouble in the run-up to Christmas, so impregnated his missus at the right moment to provide a bit of deflection.
the true people in politics are the ones you never see. The advisors, the high-rolling business types in the background donating to the right causes at the right time, the newspaper editors whose headlines can make or break a politician.
Ultimately, that is how much further you can get in politics – running the country from behind the convenient charade of a puppet PM.
For sure money and connections bring some degree of power (main reason we have a state with things like habeas corpus etc to regulate this to some degree). But I sometimes think that the idea that somewhere behind the scenes there's a bunch of clever folks actually running things - you could call it a conspiracy - is one people cleave to for comfort. The alternative is that things are what they actually look like: somewhat chaotic with much up for grabs and no one driving.
Things like reform of social care say which will have an impact on the lives of many of us, you could say insurance companies and private equity have a plan to stitch things up, which tbey'll tell Johnson and Javid to implement and they'll dance to their tune. But it looks more likely they have interests and no actual plan, and that what the pols do will be as ever balanced by what's politically possible - won't get them voted out - and expedient. And they're the ones making the decisions. Sorry.
Announced minutes after the announcement that their refurb broke the rules too
Hiding where the money comes from, clearly against the rules? What would you call that...?
People knew he was an immoral liar when they elected him though. What’s changed?
Because at least he wasn't Corbyn. My die hard Tory patents despise Boris but the alternative was too much for the to deal with. Other views are available, obviously.
I also really don’t get why, as alluded to by p7eaven, people are saying ‘look at these selfish duplicitous tossers not caring about the rules, I’m going to do the same thing now’. Weird.
Because trying to stick to the rules has been bloody hard and required a lot of sacrifices, and even reasonable folk on here are finally saying "Do you know what? I can't do this any more, why should I?" It's the obvious consequence of a failure of leadership.
I also really don’t get why, as alluded to by p7eaven, people are saying ‘look at these selfish duplicitous tossers not caring about the rules, I’m going to do the same thing now’.
totally agree with the sentiment but I do get why: "that'll show them!" (No it won't.)
How do we explain The Telegraph piling in on all the Christmas parties...?
How do we explain The Telegraph piling in on all the Christmas parties…?
Because he didnt invite them perhaps? Probably judged its better to try and get them over and done with to avoid an ongoing trickle and then hope everyone forgets.
How do we explain The Telegraph piling in on all the Christmas parties…?
Because eventually even they have to report the news?
But I sometimes think that the idea that somewhere behind the scenes there’s a bunch of clever folks actually running things – you could call it a conspiracy – is one people cleave to for comfort. The alternative is that things are what they actually look like: somewhat chaotic with much up for grabs and no one driving.
Yup. Often hear, in podcast interviews etc, those that have been on the inside of US administrations allude to our desire to think it’s all a bit West Wing but that Veep is far closer to the truth. 😃
How do we explain The Telegraph piling in on all the Christmas parties…?
Because the owner has decided that Johnson is not right wing enough and not easy enough to control so want Truss or some other right wing headbanger in there instead - someone they can control better
Just announced in parliament... 3 "gatherings" to be (self) investigated by the Cabinet Office now... 4 more to get included...
So Tory backbenchers threatening to rebel over Plan B, but quite happy about sleaze, and parties and all that sort of stuff.
So Tory backbenchers threatening to rebel over Plan B, but quite happy about sleaze, and parties and all that sort of stuff.
Yep, that's how I interpreted this mornings news too!
I leave the internet for 30 minutes and come back to find out that Johnsons career may finally be over
https://twitter.com/tombradby/status/1468915142209327107
And plan B will go thru 'cos starmer and blackford have to support it
I leave the internet for 30 minutes and come back to find out that Johnsons career may finally be over
Not the smoking gun the media seem to think, the person who knows where the funding is coming from in the Electoral Commission extract is clearly Lord Brownlow.
It is all so ironic - Johnson finally FINALLY makes a timely and sensible decision (OK maybe not timely Wales and Scotland never rolled back WFH and face coverings) but not to save lives, no no no, just one life, his political career!
So he is blackmailing his back-benchers to get their support with a threat to govern wisely and for the benefit of his people, effectively. Huz-fracking-zah Boris well done.
Facebook public event started yesterday “Christmas Rave - 10 Downing Street” has attracted 750k followers in just 24hrs!!!
It’s all very light hearted thankfully but goes to show just how much unease there finally is at all the governmental urine extraction there has been since Johnson took over…
but not to save lives, no no no, just one life, his political career!
I don't buy this. Johnson would have a much easier ride right now if he didn't have to announce/implement "Plan B". It keeps the "xmas parties" stories live and relevant, and also makes things very difficult for him in his party (and not just his parliamentary party). He wouldn't be introducing any restrictions/measures now if he didn't need to, in fact an announcement removing existing restrictions/measures right now would have been a godsend for him politically.
Not the smoking gun the media seem to think,
Its a criminal offense. The tories have broken the law and they have proof of him lying. It just adds to the pressure
Drip, drip, Drip. Lie, Lie, Lie. Clever technicalities aren't cutting it anymore.
I hope he doesn't resign before the Bye Election in Shropshire - let him lose that first, then get forced out as an Xmas present.
don’t buy this. Johnson would have a much easier ride right now if he didn’t have to announce/implement “Plan B”.
It was his panicked attempt at the dead cat - worked to some extent as well as split the media attention
Nah, I don't see it as a dead cat at all. I don't see how it helps him ... the papers can combine the PlanB announcement with the "xmas parties" to keep the "one rule for us, another for them" and the "Johnson's default response is to lie, even if it's not needed" stories live, and even fill their front pages with them, despite the parties taking place last year. PlanB helps keep old news, that he wants to move on from, live and relevant. In addition the very MPs that helped make him PM are dead against Plan B, and he has councillors resigning over it. None of it helps him. A "throw away your masks and let's drink champagne/pints together" would work for him so much better... but that's not where we are at this stage at the pandemic, sadly (for him and us).
Nonsense. Kelvin is right on this. No way would he be implementing further restrictions if they weren't required.
OH they are required all right but its clear the announcement was rushed thru to provide some cover for Johnson and while I said thats why Johnson did it in a hurry yesterday. I didn't say it was a genius move - just his usual wng and a prayer
Its a criminal offense.
I suspect there is a need to prove it was a deliberate and knowing lie, not a mistake by a buffoon. Which I suspect will be the line now taken. We will see a rambling apology for the 'mistake', another spare lamb offered to the slaughter, and the police will be held off from investigating again.
He may well have had reasons to rush it yesterday, but I don't think it was an attempt to bury bad news. It multiplies bad news if anything! One of the reasons for rushing is more likely to do with baby number n+1 (where n is unknown). I've never seen him move as fast as his departure from the broadcast room yesterday... I had assumed he just wanted to disappear for political reasons, but he looks like he had a real reason to be somewhere else fast. He was also only about 6 minutes late starting yesterday... that's not his normal half arsed shambolic style at all... he had to get that done and get out of there, didn't he.
Surprised to see the Mail Online headline for the birth of the daughter end with this line "making him father to at least seven children" the at least bit is quite sharp from the Mail
BBC Radio4 World At One said much the same... "his seventh child, at least as far as we know".
The man had the cheek to talk about "chaotic lives" when dressing up as a policeman.
...the Bye Election in Shropshire...
Fraudian slip, or deliberate? 🙂
the knives they be a sharpening
Fraudian slip, or deliberate?
That is, indeed, the question.
Surprised to see the Mail Online headline for the birth of the daughter end with this line “making him father to at least seven children” the at least bit is quite sharp from the Mail
I'm not sure why anyone should be surprised, however this pans out you can be completely certain that there will still be a Tory prime minister, even if it isn't Johnson. And more than likely one which pleases the Daily Mail comment writers even more.
The Tories have a huge majority, if Johnson doesn't last until the next general election the next PM will not be Labour.
...but let's just enjoy the ****ers squirming for a bit.
He got Brexit done, he’s served his purpose
Do people STILL believe this crap FFS, no he hasn't - he's merely pushed the UK off the cliff.
Not the smoking gun the media seem to think
So you think the PM didn't lie when he said he didn't know who was paying for his flat refurb in Feb 2021, even though he managed to pick exactly the right person in Nov2020; who was paying for it, to WhatsApp to ask for more money..?
https://twitter.com/georgegrylls/status/1468942865141309441
Is lying on an FOI request a criminal offence? The cabinet office is run by .............Oh yes, the bloke appointed to look into party gate!!
So you think the PM didn’t lie when he said he didn’t know who was paying for his flat refurb in Feb 2021, even though he managed to pick exactly the right person in Nov2020
I have no idea, all I was pointing out was that what was included in the Electoral Commission report is entirely consistent with the set of facts presented to Lord Geidt. This is quite clear to anyone who bothers to read the contents of original tweet by Sam Coates, rather than his interpretation - something many political journalists failed to do.
I should also add I pointed this out before the Official Spokesman made the same point to the Lobby.
You've spent a fortune of someone ekses money on a flat, of course you'll want to have a party to show it off
https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1468951130646347780?t=rLWy493BnZ0HRQQHCIW_7A&s=19