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With this new National socialism, looks like you’ve found your spiritual home
Did you seriously just write that? FFS! I know this is only a meaningless internet forum but you can't piss around with calling people nazis.
keep pretending that all was hunky-dory pre-2016
Ha! Like Binners was content with the state of the UK before 2016! Never moaned about anything, did he… 😹
From my own pre-2016 position… lots needed doing, we’ve not been doing any of it though, have we? We’ve stagnated and been busy erecting barriers to the world with no acknowledgment that they will make things worse, or a plan for even mitigating that, never mind making it better. And now we’re supposed to cheer on our “victory” against the foreigners, and embrace the damage to our country that is coming about because of chasing the “red herring” of keeping foreign workers out? Because now we’ve made things worse for ourselves by doing so, our government will be forced to restructure the UK economy to better serve everyone? Really?!?
Binners was content with the state of the UK before 2016!
It wasn't directed at binners.
Who’s it aimed at? David Cameron?
Ahh… you meant Dannyh… I have no idea if they thought that “no change” was required before 2016… but you can see the folly of “these changes” we are putting ourselves through without being a defender of the “status quo” as it was 5 years ago.
I know this is only a meaningless internet forum but you can’t piss around with calling people nazis.
Why not? Dannyh has doing it on an almost daily basis for ages.
Apparently Boris Johnson is like Hitler and Tory voters are all Nazis.
Edit : What you mustn't do though is use the term 'nitty gritty', apparently.
You do know what that term means, don’t you?
There's no doubt the country was pretty broken in many ways 5 years back but by God, seems like paradise in comparison to now.
A lost decade due to austerity, another 5 years arguing and scapegoating and here we are.
Self inflicted and completely avoidable.
On many of the political threads on here, as with this one, there a five or so main contributors. Full disclosure - you all can dance rings round me with you socio/economic/political knowledge.
I know it's not really the done thing on here but I'd love to know what you guys could come up with, to fix the current mess we are in, instead of arguing!
I'm not being sarcy/funny. I'm not trying to offend. But it seems to me that things could be much, much better if we work together to fix this mess. Rather than letting the Tories keep using the divide and conquer technique.
Offered in honesty and hope. Please don't flame me 😘😘😘
I know it’s not really the done thing on here but I’d love to know what you guys could come up with, to fix the current mess we are in, instead of arguing!
Of course go begging back to the EU cap in hand
Moderate course of action:
Increase taxation over £50 000 pa, increase driving taxation. Increase minimum wage, introduce rent controls, proportional representation, federal UK
Decisive action: convert the economy to carbon taxes, go for universal basic income ( plus the above)
What i really want to do:
Shoot 90% of the worlds population then do the above
Not quite what I was thinking myself TJ 🤣🤣🤣
But thanks responding!
Did you ever manage to start the UK branch of the NRA? 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Dannyh has doing it on an almost daily basis for ages.
I suppose I should be honoured. At least now I’ve graduated from nazi sympathiser to a full blown goose-stepper on account of my remainer non-conformism.
I’d suggest the same as Tj. Except the shooting thing. I like people.
Thank you Kelvin!
I'd be keen to hear your thoughts (and anyone elses) how we go about achieving that?
If it matters, I completely agree.
Ok here goes..
"Its all too ****ing late"
That window of opportunity to restructure the economy closed in the late 70s, it was killed by deregulation, chronic investment in infrastructure, the myth that we could get by on services and retail.
Seriously Brexit is just part of a"long con" that started with Thatcher,continued by Blair and so on.
The current Tory government looks like its slightly left of Corbyn... this is because they hsve no option, well they have but that means they would be out at the next election.
Nothing spends as easily as other peoples money... in this case ours.
I'd struggle to say why your wrong oldmanmtb2.
However, I'm a pigheaded, stubborn, principled clown.
It makes me furious at what is happening in front of me and I can't just look away and let it happen.
But I honestly don't know how to counter it. As TJ nodded to, will it really need violence in the streets?
It wasn't about violence in the streets - it was that there are far too many people on the planet to live sustainably and far too many of them are unpleasant nasty people.
so a cull is in order. a large cull. One I am in charge of and you had better be nice to me or you will be added to the list
I agree there are too many people.
But that is a another story...
By the way, your looking great these days. Have you done something new with your hair? 🤣🤣🤣🤣
I know it’s not really the done thing on here but I’d love to know what you guys could come up with, to fix the current mess we are in, instead of arguing!
Of course go begging back to the EU cap in hand
Norway style deal is the logical landing spot
If you really want to aim for a low immigration hi wage, hi productivity economy then you'd spend the next 5 or so years investing in training the 'low skilled' workers in social care, truckers, etc etc
Facilities for truckers, an actual plan for social care, raising minimum wage considerably,& big pay raise for civil servants, healthcare, genuinely leveling up education, funding councils & all that follows from that, sure start, youth centres, leisure facilities, policing etc etc etc
Instead we've got the opposite: hard brexit after a decade of austerity which is a recipe for a viscous circle of reducing productivity & shrinking the economy, leaving those at the bottom of society most exposed
so a cull is in order. a large cull. One I am in charge of and you had better be nice to me or you will be added to the list
TJ?
What does that mean?
That salaries for similar roles will harmonise across the EU? Because they’re not even the same across Yorkshire. I’d love for wages in the southern EU countries to catch up with those in northern countries. Maybe one day they will, but that’s not been the trend since the 2008 crash
Yes that's what it means and wages for similar jobs are pretty much the same across Yorkshire. I've no idea on timescale but the average wage should harmonise across the EU with freedom of movement. Wages in Eastern European countries have been rising more quickly than in Western European countries.
Like most people who complain there are "too many people in the world", and that "we need a cull", I suspect TJ isn't volunteering himself and his family to go first. So who's it to be then TJ? Some sub-human foreigners from some other country? Or just anyone who doesn't follow your obviously perfect example of sustainable living?
So who’s it to be then TJ?
Read his post, he makes it very clear who it will be, quote :
"unpleasant nasty people".
He also adds, quote :
" One I am in charge of and you had better be nice to me or you will be added to the list"
So my guess is that you will be included.
So who’s it to be then TJ
Same standards applied worldwide - indeed I guess there would be more culls in the first world than the third
Anyone who should be on the "B" ark ( telephone sanitisers and the like )
Anyone who votes tory or is a member
Anyone with a Chelsea tractor
anyone who kills animals for entertainment
Advertising / marketing bods
Association football players and fans - right down to parks kickabouts
Racists / sexists / ableists
Indviduals from the USA will have to make a case why they can live - the assumption is all americans get culled but maybe we can find some worth keeping
Brexiteers
Rachman style landlords
Drink drivers, aggressive drivers
People who talk with their mouth full
anyone else that annoys me.
If thats not enough to cull then I can easily add more categories.
I suspect TJ isn’t volunteering himself and his family to go first.
Actually I have not bred for the very reason of sustainability ( so thats my 2.5 children preemptively culled) and two of my family are tory brexiteers and on the list
two of my family are tory brexiteers and on the list
It turns out that so am I. And I'm not even a Tory.
Dagnammitt - couldn't you keep that bit quiet? You being a lexiteer - just pretend will you - I had you penciled in for a cabinet post!
This government is not Thatcherite by any means. New National Socialist is closer.
They are certainly dabbling in the fringes of Fascism
We’re missing the point arguing back and forward that it’s “this” fault vs “that” fault for our current wealth gap situation when we all should be laying the blame at what the tories did/brought in with banking deregulation in the mid 80’s, ever since then we’ve all been ****ed no matter what we do.
Why not? Dannyh has doing it on an almost daily basis for ages.
I don't recall ever calling a fellow forumite a nazi. I've enjoyed pointing out some of their approval of far right policies whilst proclaiming to be lefties is all. I guess hypocrites don't like having their hypocrisy called out. Well that's been going on since forever, so whatever.
As for former Red Wall Labour voters flipping to the Tories after the far right wet dream of Brexit - well if the cap fits.
This country is now lumped in with Poland and Hungary as the 'Nationalist governments in Europe'. And rightly so. The only difference is they aren't stupid enough to actually opt out of the very thing they can blame all their 'ills' on - whilst actively benefiting from membership.
Anyway- we'll see where the 'British Jobs For British Workers' policy gets us. Keep an eye on CPI/RPI, because it's gonna get ugly.
And what happens if enough potential trainee doctors decide "Nah, **** it, too expensive, too long without earning and I can get up and running sooner and for nearly as much driving a truck"?
But, Project Fear again.
This government is not Thatcherite by any means.
And yet when Daz made precisely that point to binners you responded with :
Tell you what, Daz-lad.
You’ll be sticking a blue rosette on and going door knocking in the Red Wall at this rate.
They are certainly dabbling in the fringes of Fascism
Yes they are. And it is paying off for them. What does that say about Britain?
But to hell with it. No one can ever win an argument with the likes of ernie or daz because they were assembled at the same 'pub philosophical society member' manufacturing plant back in the day.
The world was put to rights on a Sunday lunchtime, then put to rights again in exactly the same manner the week after, and the week after that.
🥱
What does that say about Britain?
England! do not include scotland in this. ( dunno about welsh politics or NI really)
No one can ever win an argument with the likes of ernie or daz ....
Sure you do Danny, every time you call someone a Tory/national socialist/racist because they don't agree with you, you've won the argument.
I thought that was obvious?
🙂
STW - same ten **** exemplified in this thread.
Depressing but predictable.
It's like listening to the pub bore drone on ad nauseam.
Different words, same comment.
Yawn.
We all just need a good holiday, that's all...
TJ, I have to assume you're joking about killing people you disapprove of (rather sick kind of humour!). If you are even half serious, you might want to look back through some footage of the liberation of the Polish concentration camps at the end of WW2 and think about the realities of what you are suggesting.
And the reality of course is that it is not numbers of people which is a problem, it is resource appropriation per capita (and particularly the underpinning of that on carbon exploitation). And I say again, if you really think there are too many people in the world you could make a start yourself, because if you think you, living in a modern Western environment as you do, you are in any way absolved of responsibility these impacts, you are deluded.
jmmtb
Had a sense of humour removal? Your reply to me is pretty offensive.
and of course overpopulation is a huge issue - even with resources shared equally there are simply too many people on the planet.
Are we back to accusing people of being Nazis?
Jeezus
Anyway, back to the real panto villain of the thread, who is apparently sunning himself abroad while London burns - well it would be burning, but we can't afford the fuel.
We all just need a good holiday, that’s all…
Wonder if he's been following the rules - no carbs before Marbs.
GET BACK TO THE OFFICE (it’s your duty to catch the virus) also… part time PM is away on holiday… again.
I'm done with the politics stuff on here. There is literally no point. It is just a drain on my time and energy.
As the winning sportsman says to the mouthy opponent who is sounding off about this or that being unfair - look on the scoreboard, mate. In this case it is bar chart of CPI/RPI - take your pick. Paying over the odds for manual jobs, particularly as a net importer of vital goods is only ever going to lead in one direction. The more you kick the can, the bigger the catastrophe at the end. The BoE will raise interest rates and then we'll see how prudent people were during furlough etc.
Over and out.
🤐
I’m done with the politics stuff on here. There is literally no point. It is just a drain on my time and energy.
I give it a couple of days before you’re back with your unique brand of snobbery and superiority. You won’t be able to help yourself.
I’m done with the politics stuff on here. There is literally no point. It is just a drain on my time and energy.
Like the majority of the population then. You can now just go and vote for Boris as he seems like a laugh doesn't he.
unique brand of snobbery and superiority
Hardly unique. Especially the “superiority” attribute.
Probably a very wise move Dannyh.
Some more GET BACK TO THE OFFICE (like our PM sometimes does) from the MailOS…
Turn off the Internet then Iain.
So Kwasi Kwarteng all over the news this morning talking about subsidies for industry to deal with energy crisis and maintaining the price cap to protect consumers. Thatcherite my arse!
Anyone who thinks this lot are thatcherite needs a history lesson. They’re more like a corrupt and incompetent version of Wilson’s labour govt. It’s no wonder the rightwing neoliberal ideologues like Baker, IDS and Redwood are up in arms.
Oh, and I just read that Javid is going to setup a national care service which will be integrated with the NHS. Has Andy burnham been doing some moonlighting?
Oh, and I just read that Javid is going to setup a national care service which will be integrated with the NHS.
A good idea in theory but in practice virtually impossible. I hve seen the chaos attempting this caused in Lothian and the attempt is basically mothballed now
This will also be used to break up the english NHS and privatise it further
A good idea in theory but in practice virtually impossible.
I don’t know enough about it but I’m inclined to agree. And yes they will use it as a vehicle for more private sector involvement. The labour blairites will no doubt be happy.
Ok, my thoughts and I'm not trying to convince anyone as that would be impossible on here and in the net in general.
"Thatcherite"... of course they are. Boris was only quoting her a few days back for goodness sakes. The only reason the money tree has been plucked dry is because the only thing that will trump (no pun intended) their free market ideology is the thought of losing power. If they hadn't splurged money all over the place the economy would be in tatters and they knew it. The fact their chums made a profit too was a bonus. It's purely self serving. Socialism had nothing to do with it.
It's a blip on the way to a return to Thatcherite ideology and they are chomping at the bit to do it already.
I know it's got a bit heated on here lately but I think that just reflects what's going on in the country as a whole. People want to improve the country's lot but there is no clear choice ahead on how to do so. We are powerless all the time this lot are in power and it's deeply sad and frustrating.
Enjoy your Sunday everyone.
“Thatcherite”… of course they are. Boris was only quoting her a few days back for goodness sakes.
I think Johnson quoting Thatcher simply reflects his awareness of how he needs to placate the Thatcherite wing of the Tory which is very clearly deeply unhappy.
I know that it's fashionable on here to dismiss Johnson as simply an idiot but he clearly isn't one.
I know that it’s fashionable on here to dismiss Johnson as simply an idiot but he clearly isn’t one.
Yes he is, he's as stupid as mud. He conceals it with certainty, privilege, bluster and exceptionalism, but its a mistake to think the Johnson is smart. Johnson is a 13 year old public school-boy trapped in an adult body.
Some more GET BACK TO THE OFFICE (like our PM sometimes does) from the MailOS…
Looked at the online version it really is a fine example of historical illiteracy and general poor arguments.
I am not sure if the editor was trolling him with the image of civil servants who were sent to Blackpool to minimise the risk of them getting bombed.
Basic knowledge makes it pretty obvious that if home working had been viable in WWII it would have been used when possible. Just looking round St Albans/Welwyn area it is littered with locations where the intelligence services were based in order to try and reduce the chances of them getting killed but still keeping them relatively accessible to London.
Johnson is a 13 year old public school-boy trapped in an adult body.
I appreciate that it's important to hate Johnson but it is unlikely that an idiot would be able to secure the highest elected office in the land.
And I'm not sure what it says about Starmer or that geezer who leads the LibDems.
Johnson may have a reasonable IQ but his emotional intelligence and empathy are missing completely - as is his common sense
He is dim overall. He is a useful puppet for the people who own him - thats how he got where he is
I appreciate that it’s important to hate Johnson but it is unlikely that an idiot would be able to secure the highest elected office in the land.
Erm.... have you seen who our present foreign secretary is? A woman so dense that light bends around her! Despite which she is far and away the most popular minister (with the triple-locked, blue-rinse, home counties racists who'll be doing the electing) and is hotly tipped as the next leader and thus PM.
The fat lad knows how thick he really is behind all the bombastic, latin quoting, 70's club act schtick. Hence surrounding himself with absolute morons (I'm looking at you, Dominic Raab), so as not to feel threatened
Andrew Rawnsley (boo hiss, centrist Blairite bastard, etc, etc....) is worth a read from this morning's Observer. On how this is no longer a Tory party in any recognisable sense of the word, but essentially a religious cult around Boris
Like all cults, Borisology is detached from reality and destined to end badly
Boris was only quoting her a few days back for goodness sakes.
As binners is always fond of saying, look at what they do not what they say. Unfortunately he fails to apply that piece of advice when talking about Johnson. Think back to 1981, did Thatcher prop up british industry with a blank cheque in the wake of the oil crisis and other shocks in the 70s? Did she bollocks! She deliberately crashed the economy, dumped 3 million on the dole and told them to get on their bikes. Johnson couldn't be more different.
On how this is no longer a Tory party in any recognisable sense of the word
So he's not a thatcherite then? Make your mind up.
So he’s not a thatcherite then? Make your mind up.
Why should I make my mind up when he clearly can't. He is one day, he's not the next. Depends what best suits his agenda at the time. It can literally change half way through a sentence
I appreciate that it’s important to hate Johnson but it is unlikely that an idiot would be able to secure the highest elected office in the land.
I've heard this sort of statement made before, and people said the same thing about clueless morons like Bush and Reagan. Let's be clear, by any standard you chose to measure them by; these people are intellectual pygmies. There's no test to pass to become an MP, there's no mark one needs to achieve. You literally get chosen to be both an MP and then leader, by groups of people that you just have to impress...Once there, depending on what party you've chosen, you stand a decent chance to become PM. Hence it's entirely possible to get the highest office in the land without a grasp of anything beyond what it takes to actually get there in the first place
It's a popularity contest and while there's thankfully no swimwear round, there's no IQ test either.
I think personally given what it actually takes to become the leader of a popular party, the chances are in fact that it favours people who aren't overburdened with doubt or conflict, and rather rewards the sorts of people that don't have those troubling worries...like Cameron or Johnson.
On a Top Gear appearance Johnson once said "there's every chance that underneath the cunning disguise as a bumbling idiot, there may be in fact a bumbling idiot".
When people tell you what they are; believe them.
Yes he is, he’s as stupid as mud.
I think like Trump he has a strange kind of low cunning where he can tell people what they want to hear in a way that feels authentic, and he clearly has a skill at the machinations of party politics. He has definitely benefited from enormous privilege and continually 'failing upwards' but I don't think you can really say he's stupid generally.
He seems pretty much devoid of empathy and emotional intelligence, but that's just everyone who went to boarding school. 😉
Yes, he's clearly not stupid in the "can't tie his own shoelaces", or "is a danger to himself if left alone" sort of way. But a clutch of Latin phrases learned by rote or a few lines of memorised poetry are no substitute for strength of intellect.
I don't think you get a degree at Oxford just from learning by rote.
There are different types of intelligence. I think he's quite capable of understanding complex matters but he can't be bothered/doesn't care.
Well if it's important for you to cast Johnson as an idiot Nick, and it seems to be, then go for it.
So you think Johnson quoted Thatcher because he's an idiot?
How is the non-idiot leader of the Labour Party dealing with that?
I don’t think you get a degree at Oxford just from learning by rote.
I think he has a ordinary degree in classics doesn't he? it's pretty much the dictionary definition of learning by rote...If he'd gone for molecular-chemistry or astro-physics, your point may have been more useful.
Well if it’s important for you to cast Johnson as an idiot Nick,
well, you've clearly made it important for you to cast him as a towering intellect to somehow cope better with the idea that's he's PM.
you’ve clearly made it important for you to cast him as a towering intellect
I made a simple comment that Johnson isn't an idiot and you have interpreted that as me saying that he is a "towering intellect"?
Do you always see things in such simple black and white terms Nick?
Do you always see things in such simple black and white terms Nick?
Only to get a rise out of you Ernie when it's a slow Sunday and there's nothing on the telly.
when the question of the tub of lards intellect comes up it always worth quoting someone who knows him....
Boris Johnson, people always ask me the same question, they say, 'Is Boris a very very clever man pretending to be an idiot?' And I always say, 'No.'
Only to get a rise out of you Ernie
Ah I see, you thought I would be angry and upset if interpreted my comment in a ridiculous and extreme manner.
And yet strangely it appears to be you who is angry.......how dare I suggest that the former Eton King's Scholar isn't an idiot?!?!!
I know that it’s fashionable on here to dismiss Johnson as simply an idiot but he clearly isn’t one.
You missed the savant after the idiot!
He's bone idle though as many a commentator has pointed out.
Indeed. Disappear for weeks during a crisis, make an after dinner speech, go on holiday
Job jobbed for another month or so. It’s a doddle this prime minister lark
Why are so many lefties so keen to defend BloJo?
I must be too thick to understand.
Ah I see, you thought I would be angry and upset
Nope, I was just doing it for fun, I'm not angry, just bored on Sunday. I don't really take anything people say on here seriously enough to get angry about it, nor likewise do I expect folks to take what I say seriously either.
The thing with this whole ‘Boris is thick’ narrative (and the same with Corbyn before Boris) is that the supposed serious grownups who came before him didn’t actually do any better at solving the country’s problems did they?
I know some on here (including the dearly departed dannyh) like to pretend that we were all living in a cosy liberal utopia pre-2016 but the truth is that the major problems we have now were present back then too. Maybe it’s time to admit that these supposedly intellectually superior people are no more able to fix the world than we proles are?
I know that it’s fashionable on here to dismiss Johnson as simply an idiot but he clearly isn’t one.
I sorta agree with this, but would caveat that with I think he's an absolutely vile person. However he knows exactly exactly what he needs to say and do in order to get what he wants so on that respect hes very smart and far from an idiot.
The thing with this whole ‘Boris is thick’ narrative (and the same with Corbyn before Boris) is that the supposed serious grownups who came before him didn’t actually do any better at solving the country’s problems did they?
Oh, I think it’s a bit too early to be making judgement like that
You’re aware that this clown, while he’s off on his hols, has authorised fellow inexplicably-promoted dimwit Lord Frost to basically start a full on trade war with the EU, right?
All because of the Northern Ireland Protocol which they themselves negotiated and hailed as a triumph
By any benchmark, that’s pretty ****ing ‘special’
Even Brexiteers and Boris cheerleaders like yourself and Ernie must be prepared to admit that this might be quite detrimental to our countries economy, based purely on nationalist bullshit?
I’m struggling to think of another politician who’d embark on something so spectacularly stupid at this particular point in time
Why are so many lefties so keen to defend BloJo?
I must be too thick to understand
Don't be harsh on yourself squirrel. But perhaps you could reflect on comment that "so many lefties" defend Johnson?