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The usual BS from Johnson
If he wanted higher wages & better conditions for workers he could legislate for it!
Flexibility of labour was the biggest benefit of FOM to businesses - its why we never bothered to use powers we did have to repatriate out of work eu workers.
Inflation is coming regardless, the supply crisis shows just how close to the bone costs have been cut over the years. Fuel bills are going to be the big worry for many.
yeah, I used "new grand plan" in the ironic sense! First excuse Bojo thought of.
What about the people not equipped for a high skill job, regardless of how much training they get.
Isnt that what Johnsons cabinet is for?
Flexibility of labour was the biggest benefit of FOM to businesses – its why we never bothered to use powers we did have to repatriate out of work eu workers.
Neither flavour of government did, to be fair. Though one didn't weaponise that failure.
Are you new to capitalism?
So capitalism can only work with low pay? That's not really a defence is it? It's bollocks anyway, you can have a capitalist system with decent pay and conditions. The problem with capitalism in its current form is that pay at the top is way too high, not pay at the bottom.
Fuel bills are going to be the big worry for many.
Just wait til they're forced to raise interest rates. The consumer credit and house price bubble is primed to explode. Combined with the collapse of supply chains, 2008 will look like childs play.
High inflation is the devil's work for poor people...
Low wages and high inflation are catastrophic for poor people...
An imbalanced labour/cost market (HGV Drivers And a few others getting a whopping pay rise) added to the above really doesn't want to be thought about.
This will end in tears, unless Rishi shovels more £20 notes onto the economic fire.
The Tories are fiscally *ed and hiding behind some mighty big smoke and mirrors. They can not win and they know it hence Bojo mud slinging/dead catting/blaming any * bar himself.
This seems to sum it up well:
https://twitter.com/tonyveitchuk/status/1444752391585271808?s=21
Low wages and high inflation are catastrophic for poor people…
Totally agree, but there seems to be a view on here that higher pay for the poorest causes inflation for everyone else. As usual people are looking in the wrong direction.
Sure as shit it ain't levelling up.
It really is building into an epic house of cards isn't it?
It's going to get really messy when it all tumbles down. I'm just hoping that it causes so much damage to the Tories, it kills them as a party for a decade or two. Possibly.
They'll always be around though, the Tories. The party appeals to peoples baser instincts... so it will always fester in UK politics like an ulcer waiting to grow again.
I honestly can't even predict where this country will be in a few years time.
No where good, that's for sure.
Was the UK really that bad that it needs all this breaking and remaking?
Will it be better afterwards?
Did they say that there would be a painful transition during the campaign?
No
What is this plan for a higher wage, higher skilled economy?
Its Boris, he has people like Patel at hand. The plan is probably to remove all *in work* benefits and let the market sort itself out and to hell with the suffering that inflicts.
*** well, its actually just a meaningless sound bite/dead cat but I think most already see that.
Let's not overcook inflation just because it's the economic debate of the day. Inflation is the result of a baulked economy.
Wages have been stagnating for years. Few seems to mention this. Wages need to increase to keep up for sure.
We already have an uptick in inflation - largely due to supply chain shocks.
So it follows that wages don't cause this type of inflation.
It's almost everyone was happy with super high house prices and low wages - a combination that has been allowed to thrive, and very much part of the problem.
Wages need to shift upwards for the low paid. There are problems that need fixing in our parasitic economy but suppressing wages is a nonesense for most low paid consumers.
It’s going to get really messy when it all tumbles down. I’m just hoping that it causes so much damage to the Tories, it kills them as a party for a decade or two. Possibly.
And faced with this most open of goals, Labour are squabbling about leadership and wondering which way to turn to navigate out of the political wilderness they've found themselves in.
I hope people aren’t confusing Boris’s rhetoric with there actually being a real plan behind it that will result in action.
Yep there is no plan.
If there was a plan stuff would be in place to support it in advance, this is purely on the hoof reaction.
A few flowery words a garden do not make 🙂
Labour are squabbling about leadership
It’s worse than that, labour are talking about ‘balancing the books’ which will be a disaster.
Aside from a bankrupt ideology - the right don't so solutions to complex problems- this is why we are truly screwed.
Rishi Sunak - the most senior economist appears to no nothing about macro-economics. He doesn't understand how the government spends money, and suggests care workers should get a job doing something else if they are struggling with cash.
Remember - they think the market is perfect, and will solve everything.
This is not a winter of discontent it's the winter of Tory intent.
Quite a good article, potential trouble ahead for the Torys...
Labour are squabbling about leadership
The Labour Party seems to be remarkably united behind Keir Starmer, despite appalling polling, both actual polls and opinion polls.
Every day or two there is a new opinion poll, the best Labour has managed since January is one solitary poll a couple of weeks ago which gave them a 2% lead over the Tories.
And yet the Parliamentary Labour Party is overwhelmingly behind Starmer.
Disgruntled party members within the constituency parties are either actively expelled from the party or hounded until they leave by their own accord.
Starmer is able to create this hostile environment towards those who strongly disagree with his leadership with apparent impunity.
Historically there has always been strong grassroot challenges to Labour leaders, in contrast to Tory fawning of their leaders.
I really don't understand why Starmer is getting such an easy ride as party leader when his ineptitude is so overwhelmingly obvious.
I guess that he just simply appeals to the middle-class pressure group which the Labour Party has become.
Quite a good article
This is something like the 3rd sentence Brexit has been delivered as best it could, given the weak hand Johnson inherited from Theresa May the inaccuracies in that alone are probably worth an article in itself. If it carries on in that vein, I'll skip the rest of it, thanks all the same.
Edit: the formatting errors are a feature, right?
Starmer is able to create this hostile environment towards those who strongly disagree with his leadership with apparent impunity.
Leader of a party makes life difficult inside his party for people who disagree with him...Seems uncontroversial.
Seems uncontroversial.
That was precisely my point. Apologies if it wasn't obvious.
👍
This thing about getting away from low pay low skill workforce is worrying.
So you think low pay and low skill is a good thing
Obviously not. But any society needs low skill jobs to function and by dint of skills needed they pay less than high skill jobs. Or are you suggesting that UK workers be only high skill high pay and we import workers for those jobs beneath us?
Or are you suggesting that UK workers be only high skill high pay and we import workers for those jobs beneath us?
Seemed to work up until 2016.....
Or are you suggesting that UK workers be only high skill high pay and we import workers for those jobs beneath us?
No I'm suggesting that *all* workers, irregardless of skill, background or origin be paid a decent wage with which they can support themselves. Some on here don't seem to want that though because they erroneously assume that it will result in more expensive consumer goods. It's a very blinkered, selfish, and ultimately self-defeating view of the world.
more expensive consumer goods
Do you mean staple foods that are bought by everyone? That form a much larger proportion of low and no pay households expenditure than everyone else's?
If there was a plan stuff would be in place to support it in advance, this is purely on the hoof reaction.
This.
Because...
Remember – they think the market is perfect, and will solve everything.
And it's worse than that, the government is, as they all do, interfering in "markets" (huge taxes on employing a key worker who happens not to be UK citizen for example, or even making it next to impossible to bring these people on board) and expecting private business and public institutions alike to go off and adjust to that whatever the consequences (whether that be moving operations abroad, or ever longer queues for medical treatment).
Wages have been stagnating for years.
Absolutely. All while we were in the EU, and had a Conservative PM.
Which of those is the thing we really needed to change?
Now, imagine we could look to countries in the EU, or EEA, that, during that same time, had free movement of people and yet had rising wages. And not just rising wages, but wages rising faster than the cost of living. I'm sure if we look we'll find a few that managed it.
The UK's problem is that we elect Conservative governments. Until we learn that lesson, we'll get nowhere. Leaving the EU is not a magic bullet that'll cure us of our own home grown politically created economic problems.
So, here we go...
...the UK's recovery from the 2008 crash was good for the "economy" but not the workers. Unlike elsewhere in Europe (where they also had FoM don't forget) we had a recovery that did not result in improved wages for workers.
If Johnson wants people to be paid more, it was entirely in his hands before we left the EU, and it still in his hands now. Who sets the rate of wage increases for public sector staff? Who has held that so low for years, and still keeps it low? Who sets the minimum wage levels, and employment law that allows employers to work around it? Let's see the PM actually do something about wage levels that isn't just about creating a series of crises and calling them someone else's problem to fix.
rone
Free MemberWages have been stagnating for years. Few seems to mention this. Wages need to increase to keep up for sure.
We already have an uptick in inflation – largely due to supply chain shocks.
So it follows that wages don’t cause this type of inflation.
Well, not quite. It could be that wage growth does also cause this type of inflation along with other things. Clearly the current increases aren't driven by wage growth but that doesn't mean it's impossible that wage growth would drive similar increases.
But I agree with the general argument. We're constantly hearing about how higher wages would push up inflation and then inflation goes up anyway. And the people who use it as an argument against wage growth as if inflation must be avoided at all costs are usually perfectly happy to do other inflationary things. It's an argument of convenience that just happens to suit the goals, just like austerity and the big "balancing the books" lie.
Well, not quite. It could be that wage growth does also cause this type of inflation along with other things. Clearly the current increases aren’t driven by wage growth but that doesn’t mean it’s impossible that wage growth would drive similar increases.
I'd be lying if I said I completely understood what inflation has got to offer up.
But, specifically on the lower wage side they do need to come up irrespective of current inflation figures. They're too out of step with HPI.
Providing the productivity or supply of goods can tighten up the it's a good thing.
That said we're in completely uncharted waters what with the Tories talking about high wages and Labour offering up nothing on this - I'm open to possible outcomes.
It's obscene that Labour haven't moved into a half decent position on typical Labour territory.
Is he saying "build back batter"?
That's makes no sense, which I guess is perfectly on point for him.
Just watched the bog brush on BBC breakfast news, what's with the weird fascination of blaming everything on China ?
.."current high prices of gas"..
(Johnson).. It's due to China sucking it all in.... (appaently he is blaming chinese factories for the price rises!)
"shortage of lorry drivers"..
(Johnson)... China has this problem too you know....
"rising living costs"....
(Johnson)... this is partially caused by China.... etc...
Lfmao.
The western economies bashing China when they rely on their exploitation of cheap labour/products to prop up our consumption.
Russia or China isn't it. Whenever it's their fault.
Definitely teflon Tories.
Johnson on LBC now.
Joe Pesci - Goodfellas "Stuttering mumbling prick."
Nick mouth breather Ferrari there smiling like a chimp at Bodjer Johnson as he hands him several softball questions.
'Was that too deferential there sir, thank you oh thank you for gracing us with your unkempt self'
coconut
Free MemberJust watched the bog brush on BBC breakfast news, what’s with the weird fascination of blaming everything on China ?
Reminicent of this...
Sky News had his wife beating dad* on this morning. I just heard haunted tupperware box Kay Burley say "for the latest from the Conservative party Conference, we have Stanley Johnson" - Seem we're going down the same route that the US did for the last 4 years, dispense with actual politicians and just get your family in to help run the place to shit
* Remember when Stanley broke his wifes nose?
I quite enjoyed Nick Robinsons interview with the fly-tipped Sofa on Radio 4
“Prime Minister… STOP TALKING! This is a question and answer session. You don’t just get to talk!”
“Well, I’ve not had the pleasure of speaking on your programme for over two years…
“Well that was your choice, not ours”
He’s not used to that from the BBC.
It’ll be back to softball with Laura only after that, and no doubt Mad Nad issuing more threats
Interesting exchange in his TimesRadio interview. This is actually a lot more revealing than it looks, I detect the hand of Carrie here, as he's absolutely right in that the uproar about culling pigs is silly when they were going to be slaughtered anyway.
"Q: You have managed to unite pig farmers with the Socialist Workers party. They are all outside the conference shouting at you?
Johnson says he did an interview on Sunday with a “guy” [Andrew Marr] who asked about pigs being slaughtered. He says he had to point out that that is what happened to them.
Q: But this is about them culled.
Johnson says anyone who has had a bacon sandwich has been eating a dead pig."
Would you say the same if they were incinerating courgettes? Or feeding vegan cheese into a wood chipping machine?
I fundamentally object to the death of any animal that hasn’t first explored the option of being made into a pie
Would you say the same if they were incinerating courgettes?
Actually the real issue here is that the pig industry bred 100,000 animals more than they needed. It's bad enough (from a vegan point of view) that farm animals are bred and killed for human convenience, it's quite another to do that for no reason at all. Anyway, brexit is again doing its job in screwing the meat industry. There are some silver linings.
Well, we're down to meat once a fortnight in this house, but I'd still like to buy UK broccoli etc, that's currently being left rotting in fields... farmers have not over estimated food demand, they can't operate. I don't want all my food being shipped in from far flung places, just to please people who don't want foreigners working in our rural areas upsetting all the retired folk with their unfamiliar accents. And I'd rather those still having their meat several times a week could buy UK produced meat, rather than relying on imports from countries where we don't control the type of animal husbandry practiced.
as he’s absolutely right in that the uproar about culling pigs is silly when they were going to be slaughtered anyway.
Not really since there are several differences.
From the farmers viewpoint there is the getting paid for it side of things which is generally quite important to businesses.
More generally whilst many people will excuse away animals being killed for food its harder to rationalise away them just being killed.
Any one know if he partakes in country "sports" since might explain why he manages the latter.
This is absolutely hilarious!
https://twitter.com/GMB/status/1445294194365505537
Er, ich nichten licht....
From the farmers viewpoint there is the getting paid for it side of things which is generally quite important to businesses.
Well they didn't have to breed that many pigs. Perhaps they should have done some thinking about what the demand would be in a world with fewer butchers to process them?
More generally whilst many people will excuse away animals being killed for food its harder to rationalise away them just being killed.
As I said, that false distinction is silly, and Boris did well to highlight that failed logic.
Actually the real issue here is that the pig industry bred 100,000 animals more than they needed.
That's not the case. They bred 'the normal amount' of pigs but labour shortages at abbatoirs mean they can't be slaughtered in the normal way. Which means this is probably going to translate to shortages in supermarkets in the coming weeks.
It’s bad enough (from a vegan point of view) that farm animals are bred and killed for human convenience, it’s quite another to do that for no reason at all
Agreed. But they were bred for food. To now have to just cull them due to butcher / CO2 / driver shortages is worse. According to the Times, the cull has started already, as another industry pleads for foreign workers to be let back in.
Killing animals for food - well, OK. But killing healthy animals just in service of an ideology - deplorable. What a vile excuse for a human being Johnson is.
Anyway, Johnson is winning this... he'll be able to go into the next election saying that "no matter what the consequences" he kept people out and helped make the country purer, and the Labour Party is in favour of "uncontrolled migration" (they aren't) and he'll win another term.
We/you need to motivate the third of people who don't vote to vote the Tories out. Ask your work colleagues, work on them! 😄
Perhaps they should have done some thinking about what the demand would be in a world with fewer butchers to process them?
Maybe but perhaps they made the mistake, like so many, of believing the government were slightly more competent than they were. Are you always a fan of victim blaming?
As I said, that false distinction is silly, and Boris did well to highlight that failed logic.
Simply because you have stated something doesnt make it true. Have you thought it might be yourself and Johnson with the failed logic?
I had the misfortune of hearing some of Johnson's dribblings this morning. Jesus wept. This ****wit actually has no idea how anything works. Economy, world trade etc. Not a clue. He can't even be bothered to listen to anyone in the real world (he can't have purged all the civil servants).
What a Conservative Unionist National Treasure.
that farm animals are bred and killed for human convenience, it’s quite another to do that for no reason at all
They died so that Pete could live…
I fundamentally object to the death of any animal that hasn’t first explored the option of being made into a pie
#binnersforPM
#votebinners
Ah... I can see the inspiration for the Johnson fish supper clip now... Pete Doherty!
Is there now going to be a pie shortage and should I start stock piling before the riots start?
Can't the pigs be left a bit longer?
Simply because you have stated something doesnt make it true.
I'm not deliriously happy at agreeing with Boris on something, but on this issue I do. There's very little difference between killing and animal for food or culling it because there's not enough butchers to get it on to the supermarket shelves. If meat producers lose out as a result, then that's no bad thing IMO. Ultimately it's the responsibility of farmers to judge how many animals they should breed. If they get it wrong then that's their problem.
She’s off…
The daughter of refugees castigating refugees.
No matter how many times she does it, it never becomes less annoying
She really is a truly vile human being
I think the pigs get too big for the pens and overcrowding causes welfare issues. Killing them solves the discomfort
#notapigfarmer
There’s very little difference between killing and animal for food or culling it because there’s not enough butchers to get it on to the supermarket shelves.
Because .... ?
Or is it sufficient for you to state something for it to become true?
Ultimately it’s the responsibility of farmers to judge how many animals they should breed.
Absolutely
If they get it wrong then that’s their problem.
But not when their supply chain logistics suddenly gets ambushed shirley?
Buy veggie pies... they are ace these days! Really. That's all we have now. Of course, it's not just meat farmers being screwed by our "we will protect you from having to rub shoulders with foreigners out in the country" government, so all pies could start to become scarce. Imagine! It doesn't bare thinking about...
EDIT: We might not even be able to fall back on a cheese and broccoli quiche. I've just spent a few minutes wondering how one would work with gravy and mash... might give it ago before the broccoli shortage gets more severe.
The daughter of refugees castigating refugees.
Perhaps thats the line she should take to get people onside with her policies. "Just think allow these refugees in and they might have a kid like me".
Or is it sufficient for you to state something for it to become true?
New here? 🙂
If the pigs are allowed to mature too far the supermarkets won't accept them because they start putting too much fat on.
There’s very little difference between killing and animal for food or culling it because there’s not enough butchers to get it on to the supermarket shelves.
That's a bit like saying there's very little difference between burning petrol to power a car, and just burning it in a way that produces no particular use.
And it's not really reasonable to expect Farmer Giles to produce an annual independent assessment of potential labour shortages and government ****-ups, ignoring any government assurances or promises. OK, Boris IS an incompetent liar and yes much of this stuff IS exactly what fearmongering remainers said would happen, but it's not fair to say 'this is your own fault for believing the government'.
If the pigs are allowed to mature too far the supermarkets won’t accept them because they start putting too much fat on.
Ta. Suprised the supermarkets are still letting me in if thats the case.
Lol! I almost choked on my Cous Cous...
Any one know if he partakes in country “sports” since might explain why he manages the latter.
I think you might have just solved the labour crisis. Who needs low paid rural jobs when toffs can go hunting pigs with hounds for free.
And it’s not really reasonable to expect Farmer Giles to produce an annual independent assessment of potential labour shortages and government ****-ups, ignoring any government assurances or promises.
Very much this. Some people have no idea how farming works. Including HM Government, obviously.
If meat producers lose out as a result, then that’s no bad thing IMO. Ultimately it’s the responsibility of farmers to judge how many animals they should breed. If they get it wrong then that’s their problem.
Pretty much this.
It's not the job of the state to depress wages to the point where a handful of famers can make a living.
Farmers need to offer pay and conditions that attract the workers they need. If the business won't support that then they need to quit farming and get a job as a butcher/HGV driver/Barista/Plumber/Electrician or whatever. (Or we need to subsidise farms, if we think the sector is important.)
The Torys won't complain if they lose the votes of farmers in exchange for the votes of blue collar workers.
I had an electrician in this week - his wife's just bought a kitten and they've called it Boris. I have a mate who's a farmer I'll be seeing at the weekend. He sub contracts all his work out to an (excellent) team of people originally from Romania. I don't think he'll be calling his daughter's Pony Boris!
Strange times.
It's not about depressing wages. It's about having the workers. You can wave all the money in the world at me, I can't start Monday as a vet, or a butcher, or an HGV driver... and nor can you. And I bet you aren't prepared to move to another area of the country for a few months to help harvest broccoli for £30 an hour either... or at any rate.
What do you call a bacon sandwich with no bacon in it?
"I think you might have just solved the labour crisis. Who needs low paid rural jobs when toffs can go hunting pigs with hounds for free."
Eagerly awaits the next Cold War Steve collage.
Besides according to the government (via the RN) Butchering is not a proper worthwhile job anyway.
This while thread could just be summed up by saying BJ is a ****.
Why have assassinations become less of a feature of political life. Think it might help focus some people's minds if it weren't.
Why have assassinations become less of a feature of political life.
My guess is because assassins have upped their rates the way tradesmen have.
Butchering is not a proper worthwhile job anyway.
It is now.
Meanwhile Raab announces plans to amend the Human Rights Act, using as supporting evidence for the change a case from 12 years ago. And it turns out the HRA was amended in 2014 to address that case. Still, I suppose it's better than just making up stories about cats
And Patel is making noise about asylum appeals, complaining that "no surprise that everyone appeals". The succesful appeals rate is about 50% so damn right everyone appeals. 50% succesful appeals proves the system you are supposed to be running is completely broken, fix that instead. Totally ironically she did it with a big banner saying "GETTING ON WITH THE JOB"
Pretty much this.
Oh god now I'm agreeing with OOB! Think I'll retreat to the safe haven of the Starmer thread. 😄
I had an electrician in this week – his wife’s just bought a kitten and they’ve called it Boris.
There was a truck driver on the news last night who said 'thank you Boris, and thank you to everyone who voted for brexit'. Until labour and remainers get their head around this they're going to be pissing in the wind.