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From the Observer’s Nick Cohen
Nick Cohen
@NickCohen4
Talked to a Tory MP last night who was backing Johnson
"Do you think he'd be any good as PM"
"No"
"What on earth will he do about Brexit"?
"No one knows"
"Why do you want him, then?"
"He's the best hope we've got"
"By 'we" you don't mean Britain do you?"
"No the party, of course"
Boris is the fall guy. Election/2nd referendum coming this way soon. We don't leave.
JP
A Tory MP’s list of priorities
1. Self
2. Party
.
.
.
.
.
38. Country
As high as 38?
Anyway the knives aren't properly out yet (see Johnson/Gove during the last leadership contest).
I was being generous. In truth it’s just behind ‘what shall I have for tea tonight?’
38. Country
That high?
I always though Johson was as pro-brexit as they come.
Boris only cares about himself. I tend to believe the argument that he went full brexit in the expectation it would be lost but he would look good to the nutters and so be in line to be leader.
With that in mind who knows which way he will decide to jump.
In a weird way, it could be good if he becomes PM.
He will finally have to sit down at the table in front of a huge shit sandwich, and with everyone watching, actually do something.
All the issues with Brexit haven't gone away (the EU, parliament, the Tory & brexit parties and the people in the country). The nefarious cloud of bollocks he spouts is about to hit the iceberg of reality. And the scrutiny on him will be ratcheted up by a factor of 17 gazillion. Scrutiny is not good for this guy.
And once this "Superman of Brexit" fails, he will be consigned to the food waste bin of history. And if HE can't make it work then the whole endeavor becomes more questionable.
We can only hope he does not last long with the halloween deadline and doesn't do too much damage to the country.
We can only hope he does not last long with the halloween deadline and doesn’t do too much damage to the country.
They don't care about damage to the country, it's the party that counts and only the party.
And once this “Superman of Brexit” fails, he will be consigned to the food waste bin of history. And if HE can’t make it work then the whole endeavor becomes more questionable.
That is when Farage steps in as he will be brilliant at sorting this out with his excellent track record of doing stuff (especially in the EU)
I always though Johson was as pro-brexit as they come.
I remember him almost flipping a coin before the referendum to decide whether he was leave or remain. His decision to back leave was based on what would be best for him (as always) so wouldn't see him as a staunch brexiteer
one came from a Corbyn supporting Imam asking about whether “words have consequences”.
Well, his words had consequences as he was suspended by his mosque. Compare and contrast with the reaction of the Conservative Party, which did nothing to punish the racist words from Johnson.
He will finally have to sit down at the table in front of a huge shit sandwich, and with everyone watching, actually do something.
Get on the hotline to Trump and declare war on Iran?
It will be interesting to see what happens. Of course I would be much happier observing this in another country rather than the blond buffoon make decisions that will effect me, my friends & family.
Get on the hotline to Trump and declare war on Iran?
Weapons of mass distraction?
Are people allowed to join the Conservative Party to vote a la Labour Party and £3 voters?
It doesn't matter anyway as the worst contender is going to win.
Johnson does see himself as a Churchill so a war would be right up his street.
The funny thing is that after this clown parade is over Johnson becomes PM & then still has the same impossible task as May. (And a handful of working days left b4 31st of October!)
He has no plan to get Brexit through, yet somehow the tory membership & Leave voters seem to think he's their saviour- do these people just spend their entire lives continually surprised that repeating the same mistakes over & over leads to the same result?
He has no plan to get Brexit through,
doesn't need one, just leave with no deal as that will be great (or so the tory members voting for him think)
I believe Bojo will happily take the UK out the EU with a No Deal. He will have the backing of the ERG & Moggists headbangers and the tory membership. They all believe Bojo can deliver another GE victory, thus defeating TBP & Jeremy.
This will embolden Bojo even more than ever and he will simply claim over and over again, that HIS tory government will save the country and deliver a (never appearing) deal.
The man is a ZOMBIE MAGGOT...!!!!
Are people allowed to join the Conservative Party to vote a la Labour Party and £3 voters?
Yep. Leave.eu have been encouraging it’s supporters to do just that since it became apparent that May wasn’t just going to walk us off the cliff, to ensure a hard brexiter gets the top job, when she was ousted. I know this, as that’s what my dad and his wife have done.
Those criticising Boris for not having a plan for us leaving? He doesn’t need one. Like it or not, we are leaving on 31/10, unless someone does something about it. Do you trust him to do something about it, for the good of the country? Or will he decide he fancies cottage pie for tea?
I always though Johson was as pro-brexit as they come.
I remember him almost flipping a coin before the referendum to decide whether he was leave or remain. His decision to back leave was based on what would be best for him (as always) so wouldn’t see him as a staunch brexiteer
I'm not sure how true that tale is.
Whilst the idea he picked a side based on his best chances of screwing CMD to get his job is pure Boris, he was the Telegraph Brussels reporter in the late 80s and early 90s. In true Boris style he knew his audience "Middle Class, Middle England" distrusted, well everyone, but they hated the EU so he "reported" a lot of the Eurosceptic "facts" that formed the basis of UKIP in the early 90s. Again, in typical Boris fashion, rather than go to the effort of actually working for a living, he made them all up.
In this own words:
"I saw the whole [European Union] change. It was a wonderful time to be there. The Berlin Wall fell and the French and Germans had to decide how they were going to respond to this event, and what was Europe going to become, and there was this fantastic pressure to create a single polity, to create an answer to the historic German problem, and this produced the most fantastic strains in the Conservative Party, so everything I wrote from Brussels, I found was sort of chucking these rocks over the garden wall and I listened to this amazing crash from the greenhouse next door over in England as everything I wrote from Brussels was having this amazing, explosive effect on the Tory party, and it really gave me this I suppose rather weird sense of power.
—Boris Johnson"
So that's our new Prime Minster.
His 'opposition'. Is a Man who campaigned against joining the EU in the first place, and against every new law designed to increase our membership up to the point he became leader.
I always though Johson was as pro-brexit as they come. I suppose the closer you get to being the person that has to actually make that decision, the more of a bad idea it begins to seem!
You're missing the point. Boris Johnson is purely pro Boris Johnson and will say whatever it takes in the moment to advance his interests. If the Tory party membership decided that revoke was the way forward he would instantly be as 'pro-revocation as they come'.
Brexit for the Tories has become something they 'must deliver', not because it offers any benefits - barely any of them are now arguing that it does - but because it's become an existential crisis for them. Thing is, there is no clean, sharp Brexit. If you leave without a deal, the next step is an endless negotiation about the future trade relationship with the EU, which basically is back to the same old backstop / deal horror. And repeat.
Those criticising Boris for not having a plan for us leaving? He doesn’t need one. Like it or not, we are leaving on 31/10, unless someone does something about it. Do you trust him to do something about it, for the good of the country? Or will he decide he fancies cottage pie for tea?
I don't think we will. He's already changed his tune slightly about definitely leaving.
The only thing I think we can definitely say about him at the moment is that he will be the next PM.
If we don't leave I imagine the shouts from Farage will become unbearable, a general election shall be called & Farage will be the next PM.
If we don’t leave I imagine the shouts from Farage will become unbearable, a general election shall be called & Farage will be the next PM.
Did you feel as awful typing that as I did reading it?
Did you feel as awful typing that as I did reading it?
Dunno, a little bit of sick came out as I typed it. How does that compare to your feeling?
A mixture of horror, revulsion and disbelief. No sick though.
i posted this in the EU thread but its an excellent summary of the choices Johnson faces
https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2019/06/ivan-rogers-no-deal-is-now-the-most-likely-outcome/
also hes already told business he'll opt for an extension to the extension, but maybe in the hope EU will reject it or make it so unpalatble we reject it
As I have explained, the miscalculations on this side are even greater. They have bedevilled for the last 3 years. And there is no sign of that changing. With a ‘new deal’ impossible by October 31 – and all know full well it is, whatever they profess to believe – we shall seemingly either have a prime minister fully aware that ‘no deal’ can be the only outcome on that date, hoping that the 27 deliver it for him, and genuinely not intending to seek an extension.
Or we have a prime minister who fully intends to seek an extension, calculating – wrongly, I fear – that, unlike his predecessor, he can deliver a Withdrawal Agreement with alternative arrangements to a backstop embedded in it, or guaranteed to come into force before it was ever triggered.
Or we have a prime minister who privately knows that the Withdrawal Agreement will not be reopened, but thinks he can sell it unchanged, accompanied by a changed destination in the Political Declaration, with some brio, charisma and bluster, to a Commons some of whom are desperate now to get anything over the line.
Or we have a prime minister who intends to make what he knows to be unnegotiable demands in order to have the pretext to go for an election which enables him, once the demands are rebuffed, to go to ‘no deal’ if he can change the composition of the Commons to back it.
Is there really a view that the general public care more about Brexit than education, healthcare, social welfare, security etc?
As ridiculous as it's got, I really don't believe that a voting majority would elect sufficient Brexit Party MP's to form a government. If Farage did have a successful GE, this would most likely precipitate a hung parliament. Who would form a coalition with him? Can anyone honestly imagine a Con-Brex coalition with Farage as PM?
https://fullfact.org/europe/would-brexit-party-win-general-election/
You’re missing the point. Boris Johnson is purely pro Boris Johnson and will say whatever it takes in the moment to advance his interests
True. I'd forgotten it was Rees-Mogg (and also my MP) who consistently voted against the WA and anything else that wouldn't result in no-deal. Johnson changed his mind as soon as there was a hint he might become PM.
Do you think that the Conservative Party have resigned themselves that no type of Brexshit will be passed with the present numbers in Parliament, and that there will be a GE, therefore Boris is the best chance of taking greater numbers in that election?
Even a term watching & braying at Corbyn from the opposite benches wouldn't be so bad, let Labour see if they can get it through and come back fighting after one term.
Johnson has to be held accountable for all his previous questionable statements. Every. Single. One. Every media interview should be robustly ripping him to bits, asking the same questions about his past, he is a disgusting individual.
Can anyone honestly imagine a Con-Brex coalition with Farage as PM?
I can imagine PM Farage as leader of either the Conservative Party (the members would vote for him) or the leader of a new right wing party formed by MPs leaving the Conservative party and Brexit Party. Despite being the figure head of the Brexit Party, he wouldn't feel even the smallest amount of regret if he wound it up to move on to become PM. After Boris… anything could come next for what is currently called the Conservative Party…
This will embolden Bojo even more than ever and he will simply claim over and over again, that HIS tory government will save the country and deliver a (never appearing) deal.
Make UK Great Again hats in Union Jack colors*.
You heard it hear first.
*sic. Not an accident.
he wouldn’t feel even the smallest amount of regret
I am really not sure that he would actually want the responsibility. Its far more his style to rake in the money and throw shit from the sidelines whilst avoiding anything like doing the job we pay him for.
Are people allowed to join the Conservative Party to vote a la Labour Party and £3 voters?
Yep. Leave.eu have been encouraging it’s supporters to do just that
Worryingly successfully too, seemingly. After Banks' rallying call, Tory membership shot up by something like 30,000 (from memory, I'd have to look up exact figures). That man has - literally - just bought the next PM.
Still, democracy hey.
I can imagine PM Farage as leader of either the Conservative Party (the members would vote for him) or the leader of a new right wing party formed by MPs leaving the Conservative party and Brexit Party.
I can't see him heading up the Tories, unless they collapsed to such a monumental degree that they were the minority support in a coalition. He wouldn't get enough free rein, Farage is all about the control.
Do you think that the Conservative Party have resigned themselves that no type of Brexshit will be passed with the present numbers in Parliament, and that there will be a GE, therefore Boris is the best chance of taking greater numbers in that election?
I think they're just in a blind panic. They've genuinely abandoned logic and reality in favour of magical thinking. They do seem to think that Boris is vaguely electable, but mostly they're lost in a sort of fantasy dreamscape where Brexit disappears because Boris says he can sort it and everything goes back to normal. It's a kind of mass delusion born of desperation.
Bear in mind too that Tory MPs are also desperate to hold onto their 'jobs'. When our local Tory MP was turfed out in the 2017 General Election, the first thing he did other than complaining that a local grassroots campaign against him was coordinated from outside the area - which was bollocks - was to whine that he didn't have a job or any skills.
So maybe a bit, but mostly they're on a sinking ship and Boris is offering free life rafts made from unicorn hair.
Is there really a view that the general public care more about Brexit than education, healthcare, social welfare, security etc?
I'm always mindful of polls, I've met pollsters on the street at various times over the years. I can't remember ever actually agreeing to give them my view, I'm usually too busy doing whatever it is I'm doing that day.
The people who do speak to them are generally, old and retired or so enthused about the subject they'll give it their time. I think that's why opinion polls tend to be more binary.
I have doubts the Brexit Party could actually fight a GE. EU election yeah, even now the main parties won't devote too much time or resources to it.
To give an idea of scale, Banks gave Farage £500k to form the Brexit party and campaign the EU elections and they got 30% or so, more than he got usually under UKIP, but not much.
The Tories spent over £18m campaigning the short-notice 2017 GE.
There's no way Brext/Tory would get to form a minority government, more likely we'd end up with a fragmented SNP/LibDem/Labour Gov.
To give an idea of scale, Banks gave Farage £500k to form the Brexit party
Speaking of which,
It appears not everyone is a fan...
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The amount of people voting for him keeps going up each round - it's mind boggling.
Sajid Javid is out of the race now.
Johnson, Hunt or Gove. ugh. and I really have no idea which of Hunt or Gove the MPs prefer or if one of them appeals to the tory members more than the other.
The amount of people voting for him keeps going up each round – it’s mind boggling.
Need to remember these are tory MPs, they do not think in a way that we can comprehend.
I'd imagine that most of them are voting to save their own skin because the 1922 and whips will know who is voting for whom.
Are people allowed to join the Conservative Party to vote a la Labour Party and £3 voters?
£25
Don't forget "supporters" of the Brexit Party company, and Leave.EU, can become (and are) members of the Conservative party as well. They have learnt a lot from the Tea Party and Trump. Taking over one of the main parties, without your organisation being subsumed or in any way answering to that party, is modern dirty politics in full effect. The BBC keeps interviewing long term active Tory members, who are very often against Boris taking over… but all polls of members eligible to vote shows strong support for him, and only him. Boris supporters are donors and voters for Farage, as well as having a vote to choose our PM. They have this sewn up.
This made me laugh...
Boris Johnson is an albino version of the Orangutan from Cannonball run, loads of people love the character but its a ****ing ridiculous thing to be put in control of anything, especially peoples lives
From the Happy Toast twitter account.
The amount of people voting for him keeps going up each round – it’s mind boggling.
If the same number of people vote each time but the number of candidates reduces, then surely the likelihood is that votes for the remaining candidates will go up?