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I’m not concerned about his consensual in private down time pleasures…
...in his office at the Foreign Office, observed by a Tory MP who presumably was there for government business...I mean, who doesn't use their workplace in this way?
Work event
I mean, who doesn’t use their workplace in this way?
So null responses must be taken as meaning peeps do use their workplaces that way?
I don't have a workplace so the question does not apply.
observed by a Tory MP who presumably was there for government business
Given the quality of current conservative MPs, they probably watched and knocked one out.
He’ll end up resigning
This is the one thing that will definitely not happen.
Well – certainly not in the sense of a resignation that is anything short of that type of ‘resignation’ that occurs approximately an hour before he would be sacked anyway.
It isn’t about politics for him, it is about him and his monstrous ego.
Its not pride preventing him from resigning its cowardice. It would actually take a bit of courage to resign. The more he limps on from one moral failure to the next blunder the more courage it requires to own up and stand down.
Oh look he's been suspended. Record time for this u turn.
So null responses must be taken as meaning peeps do use their workplaces that way?
It was a rhetorical question, surely? Don't we all expect higher standards in the workplace than Johnson and those around him do? But, for me, it's that fact he's repeatedly tried to direct public funds to multiple secret sex partners that means he should be fired, on the spot. He is simply unfit for public office, of any kind.
I have no personal problem with consenting adults doing what consenting adults do in a work place (not that I've ever had the chance)
But it's the abuse of public funds and corruption that comes with it that is the problem.
But it’s the abuse of public funds and corruption that comes with it that is the problem.
And the abuse of the position,taking advantage of the juniors/interns.
I’m pretty sure that even the most liberal work places would draw the line at noshing in the office, usually a disciplinary going by the companies I’ve worked for where similar has happened.
Time for this again?
Yep, it's blowing public money to get a trickle down. This government has rather lowered the tone.
There must be a special laboratory where they breed these Tory politicians to have this sheer amount of sexual deviants in one place as elected members of parliament, or is just good old fashioned private schooling and getting beasted by the form master that turns them out this way?
Time for this again?
That was pre covid times, now it's more....
I suspect you may have answered your own question there, Soma! 😉
Ok now it's by-election time
https://twitter.com/hoffman_noa/status/1542978388356382720?t=5OiT-v5u0G-yObRSNWUQzQ&s=19
Ok now it’s by-election time
I wouldnt be sure.
Given he seems to be a major supporter of Johnson that pretty much rules out having any principles or dignity so it comes down to triggering a recall which would need him suspending or found criminally guilty (if more than a year then skip the recall).
Depends how much scrutiny he's willing to tolerate. Considering the nature of the allegations I predict a resignation next week. Three reported incidents so far, how many more will emerge?
'Only one Conservative appeared to rally to Pincher’s defence on Friday. Peter Bottomley,...' (Guardian)
A Pincher-Bottomley coalition?
His "issues" are so well known it's ridiculous it's been allowed to drag on all these years. Interesting on the news last night very typical "young male Tory" staffers were being interviewed complaining about the working environment and the need to feel safe. How the hell must female staff feel?
There must be a special laboratory where they breed these Tory politicians to have this sheer amount of sexual deviants in one place as elected members of parliament, or is just good old fashioned private schooling and getting beasted by the form master that turns them out this way?
Long Twitter thread here sums it up quite well.
https://twitter.com/BehavinAint/status/1542614164824260609?t=Qq6akBNLgEZ3Qw77-X244A&s=19
That was a fantastic thread crazy-legs.
Got me thinking... I went to a middling state school in Oxfordshire. Most years one student would get into Oxford or Cambridge.
Imagine if that happened every year, and that some years two students made it through. Now replicate that across all the middling state schools across the nation and you can see why the ruling class have a vested interest in keeping state education in a poor state. The privileged would have to compete for the limited number of Oxbridge places that had previously been reserved for them and them alone and they might not make the grade...
That was a fantastic thread crazy-legs
Indeed. I used to work with a guy who could have written that. He boarded at a private school, hated every minute of it, hated the people, and told a pretty similar story of emotionally starved savagery and the deviants it produced
Someone mentioned Peter Bottomley excusing Pinchers behaviour. The interview he did on Radio 4 was truly staggering
It was a role-call of ‘the rules don’t apply to us’ exceptionalism of the style that Boris demonstrates every day of his gilded, elitist Uber-privileged life. These people genuinely feel that the standards that apply to acceptable behaviour just don’t apply to them and they should not be constrained in any way from just doing whatever the **** they feel like
If you enjoyed the twitter thread, then Sad Little Men - Richard Beard is the book version
The privileged would have to compete for the limited number of Oxbridge places that had previously been reserved for them and them alone and they might not make the grade…
Private school students at Oxbridge are now a minority, though there a lot still from "state grammars".
My lad has just finished his first year at Cambridge, having gone through a failing secondary school which had two students from his year get into Oxbridge. He's actively involved in the colleges inclusion and diversity programme encouraging bright kids from poorer backgrounds.
Strangely, as a liberal/leftie, he's really good mates with a Tim but Dim young Tory, but who also hates Boris, which is interesting.
And
severalmany, many other reasons, of course.
Just hard agreeing with you, really.
Private school students at Oxbridge are now a minority
6.5% of all UK students go to fee paying schools.
14% of teachers in the UK work in fee paying schools.
35% of UK based Oxbridge students went to fee paying schools.
The strangle hold on places at top universities is being reduced, but it hasn't gone. Even if we ever get to the point where places are awarded entirely based on merit... the fact that we put more resources into teaching people who are prepared and able to pay for it (or rather their parents are) means that achievement before University age will always be weighted towards those at fee paying schools, with a knock on effect on places awarded at Universities.
The point is: why does this country have an education system that is a production line of arrogant, entitled arseholes who regard power as their birthright, of which Boris Johnson is the living embodiment?
Because the arrogant entitled arseholes specifically put it there to enable it!
At every stage, they've loaded the deck. Land, inheritance, birthright... All passed down again and again so as to prevent anyone else getting a look in.
Pass the kids through a set system of education, military and then straight into Daddy's company.
Successful 6th form colleges like Hills Rd have loads of kids privately educated to 16 and they'd be defined as state school applicants at 18. Plus the variation between state schools is enormous. The deciding factor ultimately is inequality, an issue which is unaffected by social mobility.
True. Even back in "my day" the students that went through our local state sixth form college that went on to Oxbridge had all been to fee paying schools up to 16. To be fair to them, they had actively chosen to get out of the private system as soon as they had a say, because they wanted to escape the segregation... and the ones I knew were dead against maintaining that system for future generations, despite obviously benefitting from it.
Don't forget that fees rocket up in the 6th form, so there is also a practical reason why they move to good state sixth forms. In the case of Hills Road, it's one of the best in the country including public schools.
Beyond how unrepresentative of the general population the Oxbridge intake is, I think we have to look at the kind of education they offer beyond that of specified subjects.
The first thing I think of when I think of Oxbridge is the debating societies and the exercise in pure sophistry that they represent. Winning the argument is what matters, not what is right or wrong.
It is obvious that they have traditionally taught in this way because the assumption has always been that the alumni will go on to rule the country.
Sophistry is cultural Marxism in its original form. Oxbridge is effectively teaching their students how to lie. It's a dangerous thing when you begin to think that winning an argument makes you right.
Even back in “my day” the students that went through our local state sixth form college that went on to Oxbridge had all been to fee paying schools up to 16.
I must tell my wife and brother in law, who went to their local comps.
. Oxbridge is effectively teaching their students how to lie
They learn this before Oxbridge.
Windsor – bankruptcy trial
One can hope. Absent Adam needs removing. And it would be nice to vote for the winning candidate. Even if only once in my lifetime.
Will be a run on the Sunday Times tomorrow. I know scandals sell, but it is basically the back door news flow from The Conservatives.
Mail & Torygraph running with anti Johnson front page headlines!
But mirror having the most fun
https://twitter.com/BBCHelena/status/1543343788709519360?t=Ml5ydQlgyZG2ryJygV8Z6g&s=19
Sophistry is cultural Marxism in its original form.
Cultural Marxism isn’t a thing, at all. It’s a hard right conspiracy theory.
Torygraph also running with how Remainer civil servants are blocking reforms. Of course we are 🙄
Therese Coffey interview on BBC was just dire, she looked glummer & glummer as it went on, zero enthusiasm for the soundbites she was trotting out
Surely this is the worst cabinet in living history, they all know they're out when Johnson is gone.
There must be a few semi competent MPs left in the party , problem is Johnson made it a condition of joining this government to give up critical thinking
Sajid Javid's troll-game is excellent, though:
https://twitter.com/sajidjavid/status/1542890015482679297
'Sophistry is cultural Marxism in its original form.' Can you give us a reference or a context? This one baffled me.
Therese Coffey interview on BBC was just dire, she looked glummer & glummer as it went on, zero enthusiasm for the soundbites she was trotting out
https://twitter.com/BBCFLauraKT/status/1543568971605372928
Cultural Marxism is a phrase reintroduced into the political discourse by Steve Bannon. It has its origins a century ago when it referred to a critique of early consumerism though found traction in the 70's when it became a phrase used by the far left. It basically, means the end justifies the means.
It is the belief that the truth lies in the purity of your original idea, not in the path that you take to get there. It therefore justifies lying, or indeed any other unjust method in order to achieve your aim. It uses the word Marxism not to refer to a political theory but to refer to strategy and philosophy.
Sorry Kelvin, it's more than a conspiracy theory, though spinning conspiracy theories is obviously part of that process.
Sophistry is what the ancient Greeks did when they took Plato's ideas about the purity of thought and corrupted it further.
...though found traction in the 70’s when it became a phrase used by the far left.
Have you got some sort of evidence for that remarkable claim? As someone who has read a fair amount of far left
literature and attended many meetings where far leftists, even ultra leftists, have spoken, I have never heard anyone other than far right/neo-nazis use the term.
IMO there is no merit in any of your post but I find the claim that 'Culture Marxism' is/was a term used by the far left particularly bizarre.
a phrase reintroduced into the political discourse by Steve Bannon
It’s a hard right conspiracy theory. Call it alt right if you want.
Whatever.
EDIT:
Meant to type Wikipedia. I'm blaming autocorrect...
If Therese Coffey is a potato that might explain why she spent the interview looking at the floor
Probably done on one thread or other but thought Angla Rayners response to Hi-de-hi guy (Raab does look like Simon the camp manager) when criticised for going to the opera was pretty good.
"My advice to the deputy prime minister is to cut out the snobbery and brush up on his opera. The Marriage of Figaro is the story of a working-class woman who gets the better of a privileged but dim-witted villain.”
Liked that comment from Rayner when I heard it on Thursday.
Front page headline in the Metro...
Groping for Answers.
Arf arf
Chis Pincher and Sarah Dines are living proof of nominative determinism.
The whole "report any concerns to the whips" thing is bonkers, isn't it (eg Dines in this case). Is there anyone less independent, and more likely to abuse information about MPs given in confidence, than government whips?!?!
Oh, Johnson has changed his previous line about not knowing about previous allegations about Pincher. It obviously wasn't credible... but did its job. Lie now... worrying about back peddling on the lie when headlines have moved on. Same old.
Chis Pincher and Sarah Dines are living proof of nominative determinism.
As a counter-argument, James Cleverly exists.
Oh, Johnson has changed his previous line about not knowing about previous allegations about Pincher. It obviously wasn’t credible… but did its job. Lie now… worrying about back peddling on the lie when headlines have moved on. Same old.
what was that 3 hours before u-turning?
the jr, jr minister that drew the short straw this morning to do the interview rounds must be loving it
https://twitter.com/TomSwarbrick1/status/1543926556963266565
Yep, MH, he's an oxy moron.
BillMC
Yep, MH, he’s aoxymoron.
FTFY
It's worth remembering as you turn on the radio, or open the newspaper, that this govt once thought it would be a good idea to have a scheduled daily press conference.
'given a categoric assurance the Prime Minister was not aware of any specific allegation or complaint.'
I guess "he's a massive sex pest" is nicely non-specific, so the above quote could technically still be true 🙄
Raab on BBC this morning.
How can you tell he's lying? Well his lips are moving, unlike the thought processes in his brain.
I just avoid all news about this rabble now.
Can someone please wake me up when we've got some grown-ups in charge?
These are 'grown ups'. One thing I've learnt over the years is that people's inadequacies, eccentricities and nastiness don't improve with age. I want to see some young talent in power not some cynical, reactionary and bought off gerontocracy.
The first thing I think of when I think of Oxbridge is the debating societies and the exercise in pure sophistry that they represent. Winning the argument is what matters, not what is right or wrong.
I think you overestimate how important the Oxford Union Society is in the University. It has nothing whatsoever to do with the education process. Everyone knows that it's a posh club where shits like Johnson can polish their egos playing at being important. It's a failure of our democracy that some of them go on to actually become important in real life.
Raab on BBC this morning.
How can you tell he’s lying? Well his lips are moving, unlike the thought processes in his brain.
To be fair to Raab, it looks like he's guilty of being naive, gullible and thick, rather than telling lies on this occasion.
The Prime Minister was briefed that Chris Pincher was a massive sex pest but decided to keep that information to himself, before appointing him as deputy chief whip
And as we know from Raab's surprise as to the importance of the Dover Calais crossing to UK trade, he is not a curious man. The thought of asking what the outcome of an investigation about someone being a sex pest simply never entered his empty head.
Ladies and gentlemen... your Deputy Prime Minister and Justice Minister
Speaking to the BBC's Today programme, Mr Raab said: "I have discussed this with the prime minister over the last 24 hours, it is not my understanding that he was directly briefed."
From the BBC story linked above - look at the words "it is not my understanding"...
look at the words “it is not my understanding”…
This Government manages to not understand, not be aware of, not be briefed on and not have sight of pretty much everything it's supposed to be managing. Impressive.
so the above quote could technically still be true
Although not the best excuse since if I had heard nonspecific claims about someone I was thinking of giving a senior job to, especially one relating to handling these sort of claims, I think I would have put a few minutes into trying to find out the specifics.
Or on the other hand I might have just gone "he is a grade a arsekisser who will help me out so sod it".
He certainly seems to be that.
Correction: age has FA to do with it, cf Streeting and Corbyn.
look at the words “it is not my understanding”…
Exactly. Interviewers absolutely need to be pinning ministers down on specifics so there's no weasel room later. I know using vague language is not a new phenomenon in politics, but we seem to be an era where this government in particular is a house of cards built upon lies.
"I think you overestimate how important the Oxford Union Society is in the University."
I hadn't so much thought about the societies effect on the University, rather the effect the debating style they nurture have on the country itself.
That adversarial and sophistic style is mirrored both in parliament and our press. It has also found a broader audience with the internet and the format has become widely duplicated by many other institutions.
It sees truth at one end or the other. With its "which is best: Rome or Greece?" type of positing. It disavowes nuance (which is obviously where truth lies) and doesn't allow for concepts to exist concurrently. Winning is all that counts.
As you point out, the society is a training ground for toffs to go on and rule the country and the debating model established has a big role in shaping our political discourse.
According to Michael Fabricant Tory mp’s feel sorry for Pincher and he is also a victim.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/chris-pincher-michael-fabricant-mp-b2115922.html
As you point out, the society is a training ground for toffs to go on and rule the country and the debating model established has a big role in shaping our political discourse.
And it's exactly what PMQs is based on - a bit of theatre and charade where you don't answer the question, you bray repeatedly about how good YOU are and how bad THEY are.
Divisive and combative and quite "showy" but not actually much use in policy or governance.
I was watching Kenneth Clark's "Civilisation" last night. It was the series that launched BBC2 (and is quite possibly the best TV documentary ever made).
This quote seemed rather prescient.
"Authoritarian governments don't like dictionaries, they live by lies and by bamboozling abstractions. They can't afford to have words accurately defined"
And it's not just politicians who are murdering the language. Before watching Civilisations I watched Newsnight, where Kirsy Wark afforded Jacob Lynch Mobb a dozen opportunities to characterise something that his own party's disciplinary committee has confirmed to be true as being 'gossip'.
See also the media's acquiescence with the government with their endless rolling out of the phrase 'culture war'.
Looks more like a 'special operation' to me...
I imagine Raab’s “understanding” is what he was told. And McDonald has stated that most likely what he was told was untrue. Hence the two can be reconciled and Raab goes off to wonder how many more times he must defend a lying boss.
I see Tory MPs are once again at the end of their tether with Johnson
You can only hope that they remain unable to find their spines & depose him
he is a disaster for the Tories
After Partygate I thought it'd calm down and they'd tighten up a bit but this constant drip drip is going to continue for as long as this guys PM, he clearly doesn't do details and wants to be liked so everyday there's some decision being made without the full picture or 'he's a good egg, it'll be fine'.
You know from what ever job your in it's barely ever fine, this guy is continuing to set himself up for a fall every week, if not every day, long may it continue, I just hope the damage is limited to the people around him and the Party rather than the wider populace, but there's always overspill.
Authoritarian governments don’t like dictionaries, they live by lies and by bamboozling abstractions. They can’t afford to have words accurately defined
Doublespeak
According to Michael Fabricant Tory mp’s feel sorry for Pincher and he is also a victim.
Even for an odious League of Gentlemen character, Fabricant never ceases to come up with new ways of being despicable. Is he just taking cues from the yanks - trying to troll 'liberal snowflakes'?
Labour has been granted permission to ask an urgent question about this latest debacle in parliament and there's also meant to be a press briefing now.
Boris is hiding in a fridge, obviously, and apparently they're struggling to find anyone to volunteer to stand in for either the press or parliament. No surprise given that what the poor mug is briefed to say will be a pack of lies which is constantly subject to change/backtracking/screaming U-turn
Everyone has gone to ground, so expect some poor sacrificial junior bag-carrier who nobody has heard of
can someone dub Mad World by Tears for Fears over the top?
https://twitter.com/BestForBritain/status/1544245691215757312
https://twitter.com/peterwalker99/status/1544290013109796868?t=mfXFmF5CjNRXLpgsbJYTow&s=19
I see Johnson's selective memory is in full swing again.
No, I knew nothing of any allegations.
Well I knew there were allegations but not the specifics.
Oh wait HIM?! Oh yes, I do remember now...
🤔
Although when so many members of the party are sexpests and porn watchers, it might be difficult to keep track of the specifics...