Forum menu
Nothing in last week's issue so another 7 days to go sadly.
Nickc - I'll just point out that on the thread " men lead lives of quiet desperation" you were called out for this by several other posters and IIRC on other threads as well
The bullying may be inadvertent as mine was. When it was pointed out what I was doing I was ashamed and embarrassed and apologised. I and others have called you out on this and what you do is double down
How about a bit of reflection and trying to understand the effects your posts have on others. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and accept its not deliberate. Your side of this is to reflect on how you behave on here. I had to go thru that process and its not nice but hopefully I came out a better man
Cha****ng - I'll accept that. Perhaps its inadvertent
Dazh - maybe not in real life but the effects on me are of being bullied. Remember I have been on the other side of this which I am still ashamed of and its just not debating - its personal attacks using bogus point scoring. its very unpleasant and one positive it gives me more insight into how I have behaved which deepens my shame.
creepy "Carrie doesn't live here anymore"
the post you made about Truss that you tried to use to prove me wrong actually supports the point i was making.
Cool, I didn't post to "prove you wrong" If you see every post that debates with you this way, no wonder you accuse me of the behaviour you have. All my posts on the matter says is she's popular. that's it. I can't help how you interpret what I write, but you're wrong to suggest they're done in a spirit of meanness or bullying. You managed to project on me this tone or interpretation and there's nothing I can do about that, but it's the wrong conclusion. I've argued/debated /discussed with dissonance, ernie, dazh, rone, bridges, molly cougar and many others countless countless times, as have you with me over the years, and all of a sudden everything I write is now bullying? Why would I bully you? I couldn't pick you out of a crowd.
I don't want to harm anyone. I will say this a final time, I'm not posting to bully you. and I'm certainly not "following you around the forum" That's the end of the discussion I'll have about it.
Can we please move on an not get into personal arguments yet again?
Nadine Dorries has said that we all need to move on, she must have read this thread
I do not believe Truss could win a GE. I think her dimness would be horribly exposed.
I presume you must have been asleep for the last six years.
The incumbent prime minister hid in a fridge to escape scrutiny last time and won a 80 seat majority.
Dimness is no barrier. Particularly if you can paint the oppo as 'foreign-loving traitors' or similar.
A Mumsnet interview with Johnson?
It's often been said that this place is the male equivalent of Mumsnet, Can you pull your finger out, Mark?
taken aback
surprised
Oh **** off you fat lying ****.
TJ, if you think you are the victim of bullying then report it. I think you're imagining it but if it seems real to you then email the mods.
Blimey, I thought this thread provided some sort of self-help support for all those overwhelmed by their hatred of the Tories.
Why descend into personal animosity when the target is supposed to be Johnson?
Why descend into personal animosity when the target is supposed to be Johnson?
Irony overload.
Look, neither TJ or Nick were aware that they were openly bickering, as such they have not been bickering. They will also retrospectively redefine what bickering is so that they can categorically state that they were not bickering, even though the rest of participants of the thread openly see they were bickering. But they were NOT bickering were they (oh look a dead cat)
Earlier I asked wether Liz Truss could win a General election, not wether she could win the leadership of the Tory party, they are two different questions.
We lived in a different country when May defeated Corbyn (the man who thought we should wait for Putin's internal investigation before attributing blame for the Salisbury poisonings.)
I fully expect Labour and the Lib Dems to stay out of each other's way in contestable seats. The next election will be fought less on ideology than previous elections, (economic plans etc), it will be fought on the basis that the nation needs to be pulled out of a death spiral.
Even the saner half of the Tory party recognise this, ergo my initial question. They face the quandary of deposing Boris for with someone with a moral compass only for a complete and utter moron to claim the throne.
The last two elections were won under the clarion call of getting Brexit done. The next election is all about picking up the pieces. As leader, Truss would have to fight on the platforms of either Brexit being a victory, or that it hasn't been done yet so why not re-elect the mob who didn't manage to get it done first time.... or second time... Can't see the electorate giving the hard Brexiters a third chance.
There are no dead cats left, they'll have to start killing them next, (never mind Carrie, has anyone seen Larry the cat recently?) The culture war as they so fondly call it will be over by 2024 if it isnt already, the final battle of the 'Culture War' is being fought nwithin the Tory party right now.
Should a grown up win the party leadership then they will look to change tack, dispensing with the racism and try to regain ground in their traditional heartlands in the South. They could win.
If Truss (or similar) wins then they will look to double down on current, Cummings devised strategy but without the Mekon and the once charismatic Johnson at the helm to get it over the line. They will lose.
Look, neither TJ or Nick were aware that they were openly bickering, as such they have not been bickering. They will also retrospectively redefine what bickering is so that they can categorically state that they were not bickering, even though the rest of participants of the thread openly see they were bickering. But they were NOT bickering were they (oh look a dead cat)
^^^^
Ahhhh, but that is one of Johnson’s main tricks made manifest right there.
I've not been following the tj vs nick bickerfest in minute detail, but the conclusion I would draw is that one of them was making more of the running when it came to the more derisive stuff.
What you've just done there is to create equivalence with a witty shoe-horning in of the whole "I didn't know I was..." defence. Very much like Johnson has equating mega wine-throwing, plant pot spewing pissups a la Bullingdon club with grabbing a takeaway and a beer during a meeting - admittedly one that was probably close to ending and Starms should probably not have been drinking a beer at that point.
But there is no equivalence between the two as one is manifestly more serious than the other.
Any danger of this getting back on topic, mind?
I fully expect Labour and the Lib Dems to stay out of each other’s way in contestable seats.
This will be key.
It needs to be done as subtley as possible - otherwise it can be painted as a coalition of Remainy traitors.
It also needs the more extreme fringe of Labour to not torpedo the whole thing by spouting shite that makes them unelectable in the eyes of centre or even centre left voters.
I'm not confident of either of those things happening. But Labour will not take seats off of the Tories in the Home Counties in the same way that the Libdems will not do the same in the 'Red Wall'.
Don't forget too, that some of the new breed of northern tories are sat on wafer thin majorities, so Farage will be there (as always) dragging the Tories towards the far right in return for not running against them and splitting the racist/xenophobic vote (which is how we ended up with that stupid referendum in the first place).
Don’t forget too, that some of the new breed of northern tories are sat on wafer thin majorities, so Farage will be there (as always) dragging the Tories towards the far right in return for not running against them and splitting the racist/xenophobic vote (which is how we ended up with that stupid referendum in the first place).
For all that Boris is utterly useless and should never have been given anything beyond an opinion column in a regional newspaper, Farage is probably ultimately responsible for most of the damage done to the UK in the last 10-15 years. He really is a thoroughly nasty piece of work.
UKIP wold have shriveled up without its figurehead, the EU wouldn't have hated us so much without that pontificating prat as our MEP, there'd have been no need to call a referendum and Question Time might have been able to allocate some airtime to decent people...
[img] 
[/img]
I can't help but thinking that Mad Nad would an absolute hoot as PM... As long as we aren't concerned with having any sort of half decent future 🤣
A tragedy indeed. It would have saved me many a sleepless night imagining what I would do to him if I ever got the chance. 😀
"the EU wouldn’t have hated us so much without that pontificating prat as our MEP"
Given that Farage tried 4 times and failed in his attempts to become a UK constituency MP, can we say that it was the European Parliament that made Nigel Farage?
Outside of local elections, (ie, anything that affects a whole nation or region) any election that can't command at least 50% of the eligible electorates attention is not only worthless, it's dangerous. (See also party membership having an extra vote in deciding party leader and in particular, Prime Minister.)
The EU parliament sowed the seeds of its own (so far partial) downfall in the way it was constructed, It built a castle, with a moat and a drawbridge but it left the back door open.
I'm a firm remainer by the way but I always thought the European Parliament was a bad idea.
I’m a firm remainer by the way but I always thought the European Parliament was a bad idea.
Careful, dannytiger will be calling you a nazi with heretical talk like that.
Given that Farage tried 4 times and failed in his attempts to become a UK constituency MP
I know it's hard to believe but his failure to win a Westminster seat was considerably greater than that.
He made 7 attempts, 5 in general elections and 2 in the full glare of by-elections.
And some of the seats were specifically selected for him as his best chance, including Thanet which had the only local authority in the UK under ukip control - for a short while until it collapsed due internal ukip bickering.
Farage personally is nowhere near as popular with voters as some would have us believe.
There have been many points where Farage has been the most popular politician in Britain, crazy through that is.
The European Parliament is mostly misunderstood… it is like an elected House of Lords… it isn’t like the UK government or even the UK primary chamber… the real power has always been with the governments of the nations in the EU (and primary chambers they rely on for their support).
The possibly one single master stroke farage pulled, is convincing the conservatives/Cameron they had to be more right wing than they already were, and therefore rattled them into having the EU referendum.
I don't think he was ever taken seriously by other MEPs, he didn't turn up to any meetings to even be a concern to them.
"The European Parliament is mostly misunderstood"
Therein lies it's problem.
it is like an elected House of Lords…
And about as useful. Especially considering its role in scrutinising the unelected EU commission. Almost like some people realised how pointless it was 😀
And about as useful. Especially considering its role in scrutinising the unelected EU commission.
Which presumably is why no one argues that it should be replicated in the UK legislative process.
An elected House of Lords which is restricted to rubber stamping legislation presented to it by unelected civil servants doesn't sound like a vote winner to me.
presented to it by unelected civil servants
All our UK legislation is written by unelected civil servants. The decision making is still in the hands of elected politicians though. Well, and some unelected ones.
In the EU, all the real decision making powers still lie with national governments and their parliaments. Having shared civil servants draft and work on shared policy documents isn’t undemocratic. Nor is having the scrutiny parliament elected, rather than appointed by past politicians who have long since been voted out of office.
presented to it by unelected civil servants
All our UK legislation is written by unelected civil servants.
Do you not understand the difference between 'presented' and 'written'?
All our UK legislation is written by unelected civil servants
I can think of a couple of bits of legislation that were written despite the views and advice of the civil servants who were expected to deliver it, and who correctly pointed out the problems it would cause at the consultation stage
There is a real risk here of the same old axes about legislative processes as appeared in the Brexit debate being ground all over again. Which would be masochism of the highest order.
Which would be masochism of the highest order.
It’s not like there’s much else going on. 😀
Which would be masochism of the highest order.
Fair. I don’t even know why we got onto Farage. Let’s try and stay in the modern day, and our PM.
In other news, how long until the VONC?
pandhandj
Free MemberI can’t help but thinking that Mad Nad would an absolute hoot as PM… As long as we aren’t concerned with having any sort of half decent future 🤣
Basically let's put her in a new series of the Thick Of It, and just not tell her. It'd be unmissable tv
I don’t even know why we got onto Farage.
We were fantasising about his death again. It’s a tricky habit to kick.
Anyway, anyone going to a street party? Nowt going on round here, bloody treasonous commies everywhere. Disappointing.
Think I'll get Never Mind The Bollocks and play loudly in car and at home for next few days.
It isn’t simply a chance for a country wearied by the extraordinary circumstances of the past few years to let its hair down – although it is, of course, your patriotic duty to do just that.
In other news, how long until the VONC?
Two things. The long weekend is being conveniently used by Johnson to diffuse the anger and keep out of the headlines, and we don’t know but it’s rumoured that 54 letters have been received.
So, either next week so as not to distract from HRMs weekend or not at all.
So where will the first riot be?
2 years of being locked down, A cost of living tsunami breaking, dangerously polarised politics, a PM who's in complete denial of his law breaking, a 4 day weekend, with sunny weather forecast, street parties and 6p pints...
We all know where this is heading
Nah, we’ll be having beer and sandwiches and ignoring it all for a few days.
dangerously polarised politics
I think the one thing that everyone can agree on, Tory, Labour, and LibDems, is how marvelous and inspirational Her Majesty has been over her 70 glorious years.
What a great opportunity to unite the nation this weekend will provide. I am sure that Keir Starmer (and the geezer from the LibDems) will play his part.
unite the nation
No so sure, I just accidentally watched the BBC for five minutes with some awful upper class sycophantic Britishness helped by John Hurt with a exaggerated accent on display. With all things considered I find that devisive.
I suspect the feel of this weekend would have been drastically different, especially for the have-nots, had it not been for the crazy inflation rises in recent months on food, fuel and utilities.
What's the fat blond mess doing this weekend anyway? Is he in some conspicuous role of "being seen" or has he slunk off to Chequers to watch it all on TV without lowering the tone of the whole thing?
What’s the fat blond mess doing this weekend anyway?
Recent evidence suggests that he'll probably be getting mullered
I wouldn't be surprised if Liz has told him that there will be severe consequences for another gaff hitting the headlines this weekend!
Everytime I’ve heard that Sex Pistols track over the last few weeks (and it has been on quite a bit) the line about “her fascist regime” makes me think of BoJo and Pritti etc
Protesters on the Mall already…
Ah, Boris and the delightful Carrie are on Horseguards Parade. He's even managed to dress himself vaguely smartly for once.
Cannot believe that. I think he could make any clothing he is given look like he'd slept in it.
Yeah, I reckon he's been on a tight leash for the last 24hrs to make him look less like a fly-tipped sofa. Probably involved an army of tailors and personal groomers.
In other news, how long until the VONC?
After the loss of the two by-elections; Tiverton and Honiton will be pivotal. One thing Tory MPs don't like is the prospect of losing their seats at the next GE. Faced with such a prospect, they're pretty brutal in replacing their leader.
It’s not Boris - it’s a body double / stuntman.
Your occasional reminder… the scruffy ill fitting suit thing is all an act. Of course he can drop out of it when he wants.
the scruffy ill fitting suit thing is all an act
The whole Boris thing is an act. His name is Alexander. His family and friends call him Alexander. But if people are stupid enough to fall for it...
The whole Boris thing is an act. His name is Alexander.
No way!
Now I just feel stupid ☹️
I wouldn’t be surprised if Liz has told him that there will be severe consequences for another gaff hitting the headlines this weekend!
I hope someone has had a word with Carrie Antionette too - just to make sure she doesn't accidentally 'take' a salute or similar.
Not that she hasn't been taking more than a salute from Zac Goldsmith... 🙂
No way!
Now I just feel stupid
It's OK, we all have our off moments.
How's the behind the scenes sneaking game going at the moment?
I dont think it really matters of Johnson goes or not, its the sycophants of the party who have shown by their support that Johnson is only a figurehead, and the lack of integrity is symptomatic of the party in general.
the lack of integrity is symptomatic of the party in general
It's a coalition of people who are in it for what they think they can get. That is the very essence of being a Tory. Integrity doesn't come into it. They only stay 'united' so long as it is in their interest.
It’s not Boris – it’s a body double / stuntman.
Nah, must have been Boris, Carrie has tipped her hat nicely to avoid having to look at him. 😅
https://twitter.com/archer_rs/status/1532338449663008769?t=gb0fOhlFEiEAjtA793jDtA&s=19
😀
Nah, that's parody Boris, the real one is getting pissed at Chequers. 😉
parody Boris
Honestly, who could tell?
I think the one thing that everyone can agree on, Tory, Labour, and LibDems, is how marvelous and inspirational Her Majesty has been over her 70 glorious years.
I can no longer tell when people are being sarcastic.
It’s weird thou the whole queen thing and he’s actually dressed.
I think the one thing that everyone can agree on, Tory, Labour, and LibDems, is how marvelous and inspirational Her Majesty has been over her 70 glorious years.
I think its interesting in the amount of sycophantory that’s going on,tbh when she slips off this mortal coil we’re truely stuffed as the sun won’t come up any more 🙂
Enjoy the holiday thou peeps 🙂
Unusually, 'Mr and Mrs' Johnson have given me some right belly laughs today. The hats, the looks, the boos (!), lovely jubbly.
the boos (!)
You know the scene in Blackadder where the Prince Regent tells Blackadder how much he's loved by the public and says "why, only the other day I was out and the public were cheering "we hail Prince George, we hail Prince George!"
Blackadder: "we HATE Prince George..."
Prince: "really?!"
In very much the same manner, Boris will imagine those are cheers.
BOO-ris, BOO-ris... 😉
Being booed by a load of royalists isn't a good look for a Tory prime minister is it?
Being booed by a load of royalists isn’t a good look for a Tory prime minister is it?
Probably not a good look for any of us.
They're hardly likely to look to the left of him for an alternative.
Nah, this is personal....... left or right doesn't come into it.
Nah, this is personal……. left or right doesn’t come into it.
This. They may hate Boris, they'll still vote Tory
I saw that he was given a reading from Philippians.
"Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things."
^ I’d like to buy a beer for the vicar/archbishop/staffer/queen who chose that reading for him 😀
Yes!!!
****ing skewered. I’ll upgrade your beer to a case.
Boris being booed by a crowd of who you would think to be the Tory Core vote, then trolled by the Church of England?
That’s surely got to take the number of letters over the threshold