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We're not getting closer links to the EU until our political augean stables have been thoroughly cleansed. Why would they bother with us, the idea that they need us more than we need them has already been proven false. Unfortunately, all UK citizens will have to pay for some time for the gullibility of one minority, and the apathy of another.
"Having a grown up in charge and pursuing the current form of Brexit are mutually incompatible."
Wouldn't disagree with you. Neither would the few grown up Tories that are left. Were the new leader to be a grown up they would by definition have to acknowledge that the current path of Brexit wasn't working.
The clean slate argument would be along the lines of "let's get the bits of Brexit that Johnson couldn't be arsed to get done, done."
Why would they bother with us, the idea that they need us more than we need them has already been proven false.
Ireland.
But even without that central and unavoidable reason to sort things out... The EU are ready to work with the UK to reduce trade barriers... in the same way as they do for all other non-EU European countries. We just have to accept that we are a non-EU European country first, and start acting as if that reality can be ignored. Where we are, who we are near, who we border with... these things need to be reflected in our national policy agenda.
Tory staffers have come under pressure not to sign a letter calling for more stringent checks on those wishing to become an MP in light of the ongoing "pestminster" scandal, Sky News can reveal.
The letter, organised by Angus McVean and Henry Dixon-Clegg, is addressed to Prime Minister Boris Johnson, Conservative Party chairman Oliver Dowden and Speaker of the House of Commons Sir Lindsay Hoyle and calls for changes to the ways in which parliamentary candidates are selected.
Sky News has seen exclusive evidence of staffers being pressured by CCHQ (Conservative Campaign Headquarters) not to sign the letter as it would put a "black mark" against their name.
Whilst I’d like to believe this is plausible I fear the second part of the statement might not be the “massive vote winner” you & I hope it might be…..
I'm inclined to agree. Make haste slowly. I know that doesn't sit well with our left leaning idealists, but fannying around arguing about idealigical purity keeps condemning us to Tory rule.
It seems Johnson is trying to get some anti-French mileage out of the Liverpool game. A few facts then.
It was Liverpool that demanded the paper tickets that were fraudulently copied and resulted in "fans" getting past the initial police check and blocking the stadium entrance gates when they weren't let in. Thousands of 'em.
Half of the 27 people arrested were Brits.
Of the 52 pickpockets and other delinquents arrested around the stadium in the course of the day there were 42 French, the others were European from Italy, Spain... and a couple from North Africa. None were Roma.
The root of the problem was the Liverpool demand for paper tickets far too easy to copy. French games usually rely on smart phone technology that has so far been fraud proof.
Just watching C4 news and it seems the French Interior Minister is trying to get some anti-aEnglish mileage out of the Liverpool game as well.
No doubt that the paper ticket issue was the root of the problem but their is also no doubt regarding the Frnch Police tendency towards paramilitary style thuggery!
Could be one of those situations where two wrongs make a wrong...
It was Liverpool that demanded the paper tickets that were fraudulently copied and resulted in “fans” getting past the initial police check
BBC journalist on 5Live now confirming from personal experience other reports that there were no initial ticket checks at an outer cordon in quite a few areas around the ground, the only checks were at the turnstiles.
Not disputing there may be an issue with fraudulent tickets (though some of the estimated numbers from Police and UEFA are ridiculously high) but seems like there were some fundamental failures in the system that must have made it worse.
Probably better discussed on the football thread though.
Caller on LBC just now with Iain Dale complaining that he's sick of remainers putting the boot into Johnson and its all their fault that things are going so bad when he's doing such a good job.
These ****ers need lobotomising to stop them doing us further harm
When in Rome, eh.
I was in Spain over the weekend, when then was a police car parked at a roundabout I slowed to walking pace and only picked up speed again when the Guardia beckoned me through. In France I'd just go around the roundabout normally unless they put a hand up to stop me. Go to a football match or a manif' in France and you expect there to be "paramilitary style thuggery" if there's trouble and as the Minister pointed out the arrests tell us the inhabitants of 92 weren't the thugs causing the trouble the police responded to.
Probably better discussed on the football thread though.
Posted 8 minutes ago
After two pages of metric imperial debate you reckon football is off topic ! 🙂 even when the spat was started by johnson at which point the French interior minister took umbrage at the lies.
Northwind, your rudery is forgiven. May I apologise profusely for not having seen it.
I'm pretty sure Liverpool haven't forgotten the article he edited and approved (and refused to apologise for) in the wake of the Ken Bigly murder in Iraq.
Looking beyond his shit hair and crappy suits that rotten mutha ****er is really starting to age. Suspecting / hoping that when he wakes up in morning the first thing he thinks is ‘awww **** not again’ gives me immense satisfaction.
****.
He look like a whisky on his cornflakes man - and he is going bald fast
Yep, he's definitely going for a comb-over isn't he.
Remember that Hamlet advert in the photo booth? A spoof of that would make a good party political broadcast by anyone other than the Conservative Party.
I can hear the background music as I type...
Front cover of the Yorkshire Post. One of those collage pictures made up of people who obeyed the rules showing a PM who didn't. There's a lot of anger in the "red wall" seats that he won at the last GE.
https://twitter.com/JayMitchinson/status/1531370957683793922?t=3U-KHioSz3ZcZ9cbpsxqAg&s=19
Last picture like that I saw was made up of many sphincters forming a person. This one is made up of many people forming one giant sphincter
Front cover of the Yorkshire Post. One of those collage pictures made up of people who obeyed the rules showing a PM who didn’t. There’s a lot of anger in the “red wall” seats that he won at the last GE.
That Yorkshire Post cover is incredible. Hats off to whoever took the time and used some amazing skill to put that image together. I did my dissertation on Photomontage and its use as a political weapon and thats one of the most powerful I've ever seen
As for the anger... you're not kidding. The Guardian was quoting yesterday that the latest polling in individual constituencies shows that all but 3 of the Red Wall seats would go back to Labour if there was an election tomorrow
This is the closest I’ve come to believing he’ll be gone after the Jubilee weekend. I’m praying we aren’t 1 short of a letter.
Media stories that we already have 54, but SGB won’t announce until after the Jubilee.
IMO the best outcome is the 54 letters go in, he then wins the confidence vote by one vote and is untouchable for a year. that takes us close to the next election with no time for him to be ditched and another mp to become PM and reset. In that year Johnsons behaviour continues to damage the tories. thats the route that will inflict maximum damage on them
Media stories that we already have 54, but SGB won’t announce until after the Jubilee.
I think 54 letters converting into 180 odd tory mp votes is a big ask. Given the festering turd has no moral compass or sense of honour I don't think he'll step down without being thrown down.
I'm leaning towards not wanting him to go mind. He's toxic and rallying around loathing him is easy. Given Starmer is proving hard to love and Sturgeon is looking a bit jaded so are not going to be mopping up the votes unaided, having a properly despised tory leader in power now is the best thing for us all in the medium to long term. Keep him there and I don't doubt he'll **** up again a good few more time between now and the general election. I'm also enjoying my brexity inlaws who voted 'get it done' having to wallow in the the shit that they were responsible for (along with all the other gammons). As law abiding covid rule followers it is delicious watching them twist and turn with what they were (along with millions of others) responsible for. Throw a 'this is the man who's judgement you valued into believing that leaving the EU was for the best' grenade in every now and again for added squirm. My unpopular Scottish independence opinions are even harder to question when you point to the fat **** and suggest I've only got to put up with him as PM because of English voters - like them.
IMO the best outcome is the 54 letters go in, he then wins the confidence vote by one vote and is untouchable for a year. that takes us close to the next election with no time for him to be ditched and another mp to become PM and reset. In that year Johnsons behaviour continues to damage the tories. thats the route that will inflict maximum damage on them
In some way that is the best option for damaging the Tories, but not sure the country would survive.
Or is there a risk that ditching Boris with a year to the next election means that his replacement would benefit from a bounce in popularity - "give him/her a chance, has to be better than Boris" mindset among the disillusioned?
I'm not sure there is a "good" option in all of this.
I think 54 letters converting into 180 odd tory mp votes is a big ask.
It's a start, and once the gates are opened things will start to move. Swings can happen quickly once the knives come out. Don't forget Thatcher was removed by the conservatives.
I don't believe that any Tory MP's have actually developed any principles or a spine, but I imagine they're looking at the polling, doing the maths and working out the likelihood of them shortly being out of a job.
As you've said though, getting a VONC in the first place is the easy bit, winning it given the selection of muppets who will stand against him is quite another.
It doesn't look like a majority of Tory MPs want rid of him yet, which just goes to show how detached from reality they are
But then its no bad thing for the labour party having someone as toxic as the fly-tipped sofa sat in number 10 as we approach an election, particularly as the cost of living crisis really bites and all they've got is "would you like to measure things in shillings and groats?"
Morecash
If Johnson is kicked out then there is a chance to tories can put someone either competent or popular in place
Johnson being so wounded can do little damage and anyway a change to a different tory PM changes nothing significant policy wise
Whats best for the country is to ensure the tories are unelectable. Johnson continuing as PM is the most likely way of doing this
In some way that is the best option for damaging the Tories, but not sure the country would survive.
There's a fairly high risk he'd take the country down with him.
I mean, we're already screwed but if he really decided to go out like Trump, he could do a lot of damage...
Don’t forget Thatcher was removed by the conservatives.
She resigned. she was not booted out. she resigned because she had some principles.
she resigned because she had some principles.
Well yes, if the principles involved were 'Look, I've only just scraped through the first round of a leadership election, chances are I'll lose the second round, so time to bow out with a few shreds of dignity'.
she resigned because she had some principles.
Isn't it crazy that we have now sunk to a place where, despite your political leaning, you can look back at Thatcher and see some positives now lacking.
Isn’t it crazy that we have now sunk to a place where, despite your political leaning, you can look back at Thatcher and see some positives now lacking.
Yep, we're in 'at least Mussolini made the trains run on time' territory.*
*he didn't
She resigned. she was not booted out.
That should read; she resigned before she could get booted out
I’m not sure there is a “good” option in all of this.
I think the 'best' option is for Boris to remain in post, because he doesn't actually DO anything. He makes announcements and pronouncements but in reality he has no goal or ambition other than his own continued residence in number 10, and that seems to be a full time job at the moment.
Better that than someone who wasn't completely bone idle and thought that being PM amounted to a bit more than donning a high viz jacket for another photoshoot in Doncaster
Yeah, the partygate thing really gets to almost everybody in a way that nothing else has done.
Thatcher was told, one by one, by her closest colleagues that they would personally back her in the second round, but she would not win. She resigned at the last possible moment and clung on until that point. She didn't resign out of principle, she resigned because it was jump or be pushed.
Who gives a shit about that now, anyway? Johnson will not resign because he is a monumentally arrogant chancer who loves the kudos despite all the (deserved) abuse. Johnson is not really a politician with a vision or a direction. He is a self-serving 'personality' for hire. It is all about him and he is an incredible narcissist.
Quite how such a ridiculous character got to be PM is a mystery... oh no it isn't! It's a direct consequence of Brexit!🥳🎉🥂👯♀️
The big drawback of personality politics is that people vote for a personality. This has been going on since around Blair's PM. Maybe Thatcher? I'm not sure.
Not sure it is a direct consequence of Brexit.
As noted before on the forum, we're now at the point of having the cosplay cabinet. An entire leadership devoid of direction and vision, other than the one they borrowed from the alternate universe 1950s.
If Johnson survives or not with what's coming down the pipes over the next couple of years economically whoever is in charge will be very unpopular whether or not it's a new leader trying to dissociate themselves from what came before or still Johnson doing the same. The problem is the damage that can still be inflicted in the intervening time but there's little that can be done about that.
I think the ‘best’ option is for Boris to remain in post, because he doesn’t actually DO anything. He makes announcements and pronouncements but in reality he has no goal or ambition other than his own continued residence in number 10, and that seems to be a full time job at the moment.Better that than someone who wasn’t completely bone idle and thought that being PM amounted to a bit more than donning a high viz jacket for another photoshoot in Doncaster
Good point. There was a point made about Chris 'Failing' Grayling, that it would have been cheaper to pay him a ministerial salary and have him sitting at an empty desk all day than to fix the costs of everything he actually did. He did a fair bit but he monumentally ****ed up everything he touched resulting in vast cost overruns and/or making things worse than they already were.
If Johnson survives or not with what’s coming down the pipes over the next couple of years economically whoever is in charge will be very unpopular whether or not it’s a new leader trying to dissociate themselves from what came before or still Johnson doing the same. The problem is the damage that can still be inflicted in the intervening time but there’s little that can be done about that.
Imagine a PM who took over at a time of crisis and suffering, ran the country as best as he/she could out of a sense of duty and public service rather than self-aggrandisement and the need for electoral success?
Incomprehensible, I know.
Imagine a PM who took over at a time of crisis and suffering, ran the country as best as he/she could out of a sense of duty and public service rather than self-aggrandisement and the need for electoral success?
Theresa May?
Whilst still contemptible as a tory I do believe she understood a public service ethos and indeed thought it her duty to lead as she did. she put up with so much shit from her own party I almost felt sorry for her
Probably pushing the analogy - her entire premiership was spent enthusiastically driving through one of the biggest acts of self-harm in the UK's history, while knowing full well this was the case. Admittedly she almost torpedoed it entirely by calling and nearly losing an election, which would have been an act of selfless public service, but I'm not sure that was deliberate.
Theresa May?
Whilst still contemptible as a tory I do believe she understood a public service ethos and indeed thought it her duty to lead as she did. she put up with so much shit from her own party I almost felt sorry for her
She had an impossible job. She was essentially a supply teacher in a sink school, who'd been tasked with getting them all good grades in their exams, with Boris as the ringleader of all the feral kids determined to make her life a misery
she resigned because she had some principles.
Martinhutch has nailed why she really reason she resigned. Andrew Marr inadvertently nailed the difference between Thatcher and Boris in his new Elizabethans programme last night.
Thatcher believed in the individual, aiming to give everyone the rights and opportunities to succeed (unfortunately she assumed that the difference between success or failure was hard work and ignored any factors like luck, where people started, and a complete lack of moral integrity in some sectors which left a huge proportion out in the cold or without a safety net). But basically when she talked about the individual she meant everyone.
When Boris talks about the individual he means himself.
Back in the real world the government is today being told that, once again, disadvantaged kids are quite possibly going to starve through the upcoming school holidays and they need to do something to expand the Free School Meals programme
While Boris is busy focussing, as always, on 'Saving Big Dog', in one of the richest economies in the world working parents can't afford to feed their kids.
Expect them to do the usual and ignore it until they are forced into another U-turn by Marcus Rashford
she put up with so much shit from her own party I almost felt sorry for her
Yes she was incompetent and unsuited to the job but I do think she was driven by a, misguided, sense of public duty rather than anything else.
Leadsome enters the fray. The punches are coming now.
Leadsome enters the fray.
"The conclusion I have drawn from the Sue Gray report is that there have been unacceptable failings of leadership that cannot be tolerated and are the responsibility of the prime minister."
Of course, all these key Brexit campaigning MPs pointing out the obvious truth about the PM still won't move the "it's all made up by Remainers to distract from the great work of our great leader" narrative.
Notable that she doesn't call for a VONC or say she's submitted a letter to Brady. Just that she's going to have a jolly good think about it.
it's a sorry state of affairs in the tory party if Loathsome is briefing against you.
Notable that she doesn’t call for a VONC or say she’s submitted a letter to Brady. Just that she’s going to have a jolly good think about it.
Exactly.
Unless her and the rest of them put their money where their mouths are and actually send letters in then its just effectively tutting and shaking their heads as Boris the feral dog continues to shag their leg.
And while thats all frightfully middle-class, middle England, it doesn't really get us anywhere other than making themselves feel a bit better and somehow trying to disassociate themselves with the sexually incontinent honey monster
They really are a completely spineless bunch, aren't they?
Not sure it is a direct consequence of Brexit.
Johnson being PM is a direct consequence of Brexit.
All of this dismissive, just give me a three word slogan, never look at things properly, don't bother to interrupt hollibobs as Kabul falls, one rule for the plebs one rule for us, etc bullshit stems from the way the Brexity rabble side-stepped the usual sniff tests and got into the top slots with a pack of populist lies.
Do we think Theresa May would have held lockdown pissups where she was pictured raising a glass like Rowley Birkin?
No. On two counts - she at least had some shred of self awareness and decency (if only because of how it would play out) and no one would have turned up.
Do we think Straw, Beckett, Milliband, Hague, Hammond or even Hunt would have stayed paddleboarding whilst Afghans loyal to the UK for nearly 20 years were being lined up against a wall or buried in pits by the Taliban?
No. Because they hadn't sidestepped the usual rising through the ranks vetting process as the Brexiteers have.
What we have in the cabinet now is essentially a bunch of fakes, who would have been held at arms length by anyone sensible. But Brexit gave them their chance to move from being fringe loons to senior ministers. It was handed to them on a plate by every Leave vote cast. Any remainers in the cabinet either got ousted (e.g. Hammond) or was such a turncoat that they became 'enhusiasts' (Hancock). Note how Johnson didn't 'form square' around Handjob like he did around the Prittster when she did a bit of hollibobs moonlighting for Mossad.
It is all to do with that ridiculous referendum and virtually everything would be less gloomy than it is now had we voted to Remain.
Inflation would be lower - the chaos at ports will be contributing.
Our covid response will have been better with someone competent in No 10.
The EU would be stronger militarily and diplomatically with the UK still in.
The GFA would not be under threat like it is now.
It all stems from that almighty brain fart on the part of the UK electorate.
It is all to do with that ridiculous referendum and virtually everything would be less gloomy than it is now had we voted to Remain.
I doubt disagree with that but you'd still have Farage & UKIP spreading the same lies & hate, the Tory party have moved onto their territory
Leadsom is trying to walk both sides of the street as usual. It's trendy to give Johnson a kick right now and remember she is a full card-carrying Brexit loon. She probably still thinks we can cope in the modern world with Spitfires and jam sandwiches. For her ilk, Johnson is merely a temporary vehicle.
If she does actually DO something it will be with the aim of putting a 'Brexit Hardman' in charge.
But that's for later. I want Johnson gone now. The Tories can then put a loon like Baker in charge if they want. He'll burn plenty down, but he can never reconcile the contradictions at the heart of hard brexit - because they are irreconcilable. My hope is that two years would be long enough to show that even a Brexit ideologue can't conjure up unicorns. We could then have a GE with Brexit exposed as the utter fail it is. It will then depend on the honesty and IQ of the electorate. I'm still not optimistic.
I doubt disagree with that but you’d still have Farage & UKIP spreading the same lies & hate, the Tory party have moved onto their territory
They feel that they had to to shore up the more 'patriotic' end of the vote. A resurgence of Farage (if he doesn't play electoral games - which he will) should be bad for the Tories. But one thing Farage is very good at is getting airtime way out of proportion to his vote share. If the shit hits the fan he'll stand candidates in the red wall again.
There isn't a single member of the present cabinet who would be in with the merest sniff of a senior government position in anything resembling a functioning competent administration.
But this is Boris's circus and he is threatened to have anyone of even middling intelligence in the vicinity of number ten, so we end up in the position where genuine thicko's like Raab, Truss, Braverman and Dorres are promoted to senior positions
Our only saving grace is their total and complete incompetence. Their lack of any obvious ability means translating their often-vocalised, unhinged brain-farts into reality never actually happens.
Can you imagine Nadine Dorres actually managing to find her own arse using both hands? She still doesn't actually understand what Channel 4 is or how its funded, so I can just imagine how her plans to privatise it are going. She's busy doing cringe-making Tik Toks instead. I just pity the poor civil servants working under her having to explain the most basic elements of her brief to her without using any big words that might confuse her
That was brilliant - "savaged by a dead sheep"
Howe ultimately lost though, didn’t he. Framing everything as Europe against us is the political mainstream now.
Anyway… drip…
https://twitter.com/adampayne26/status/1531611829964775429?s=21
https://twitter.com/john4carlisle/status/1531612657077436421?s=21
Keep writing to your MP. Mine has already said that Johnson should go.
Imagine a PM who took over at a time of crisis and suffering, ran the country as best as he/she could out of a sense of duty and public service rather than self-aggrandisement and the need for electoral success?
Incomprehensible, I know.
Problem is that politics doesn't pay enough (unless you're crooked). Johnson was earning twice what he now earns as PM on his various columns etc; and he needed a large chunk of that money to pay alimony. Hence why he missed COBRA meetings early in the pandemic to try to finish off his latest Churchill book, to get the next instalment of his advance from the publisher.
More broadly, though, it means that competent people who are well-versed in the type of executive decision-making, organisational management and crisis handling that the position requires don't become PM for the money, as they could earn 10x as much being a CEO of a large company.
So one ends up with people like Angela Rayner who started at the bottom and are very good at representing her electorate but not necessarily of running a party or country; ideologues who believe that they must do this job for the good of the people (Corbyn?); the self-defined political class who don't need the money but feel that they were born to represent the proles (Blair? Cameron, JRM, etc); and the shysters who do it for the (crooked) money.
https://twitter.com/CatNeilan/status/1531610996070047745
best outcome is that he scrapes a narrow VONC win, but has to limp on, despised by his MPs, and so weakened that he cant push through his legislative agenda (not that he has a legislative plan beyond keeping himself in power)
Keep writing to your MP. Mine has already said that Johnson should go.
Gove seems to be studiously ignoring me despite me chasing him. Well ! What a surprise.
Text of yet another email sent to Mr Invisible my MP.
Dear Mr Xxxxx,
With even Andrea Leadsome saying that Johnson should go, I would be worried about missing the bus if I were you (not the one with the £350m a week lie on it, mind).
Do the decent thing, publicly withdraw your support from the Prime Minister and hope to salvage some respect from your constituents. As a rural constituency with many older people (who were petrified to even open their front door during 20-21), I can assure you Mr Johnson's antics have played very badly here. Simply being anonymous and hoping for the best won't wash this time, I am afraid.
Only you can decide if you want to be on the right side of history now, but at least the power is in your hands.
Rgds,
Gardentiger
It won't do any good. He is a remainer who swallowed his principles for a ministerial post and a safe seat. He isn't interested in anything other than feathering his own nest.
come on who's the first cabinet minister to break cover ? has to be Sunak surely, what's he got to lose ? doesn't need the money and if he doesn't make PM he'll get his old job back.
There isn’t a single member of the present cabinet who would be in with the merest sniff of a senior government position in anything resembling a functioning competent administration.
None of them would make it past middle management in an estate agency in the real world. The system (Eton > Oxford backed by Bank/Connections of Mum & Dad) has landed these morons in a world which they simply can't handle.
It's the old pigeon / chess analogy. They knock all the pieces over, shit on the board then strut about like they won.
strut about like they won
They did. By 52 to 48.
Problem is that politics doesn’t pay enough
simply not so unless you have very skewed idea of what "enough" is
Personally I have them as very much overpaid. Paid far more than the bulk of the country
Personally I would have the wages set at say twice national average ( so £60 000 ish) all expenses to be scrutinized to be legitimate with much tougher rules and all second jobs banned. then we get folk with a public service ethos not those with snouts in the trough
No one in the NHS for example bar one or two very top leadears each anything like as much as MPs - same for all the public services.
Far too many are there for the snouts in troughs in all parties not to serve.
Far too many are there for the snouts in troughs in all parties not to serve.
Totally agree with this, though.
My MP won't criticise his boss because he's already swallowed him Remain/One Nation principles in order to retain and enhance his own position. He's already sold out, there's no way he's going to grow a conscience now. 😒
Problem is that politics doesn’t pay enough
simply not so unless you have very skewed idea of what “enough” is
Personally I have them as very much overpaid. Paid far more than the bulk of the country
Totally agree - I don't want people to be politicians because it pays well, I want them to do it because they're driven to improve the lives of the people they lead and the country they govern.
If one wants the very best people to run your country, without being in hock to someone other than their constituents, pay them exceeding well but ban external payments and possibly no expenses.
Say £500k, but they need to pay any researchers themselves, no second homes allowance, no non-exec roles (nor within 5-10 years of leaving office).
They can have any required security details on top of that.
It would probably save money on the present salary plus expenses plus folk to police the expenses routine.
Otherwise they look after unions or companies or whatever and move on to far higher paid roles that are not looking after their constituents. Didn’t Hague get £900k for public speaking one year? Ban that.
There are very few politicians in it for the MP salary. They earn there money through dodgy 2nd jobs/consulting etc. Be far better paying them far more, say in line with a consultant doctor for example and have much tighter rules on what they can and cannot do for 2nd jobs.
£80k is a lot compared to the average UK salary but it really isn't a huge salary compared to what can be earned elsewhere.
Its funny isn't it that " pay to get the best people" applies to politicians and bureaucrats but not to doctors or nurses or teachers or police
half a million a year - that just will attract the snouts in troughs mob. Its them we want rid off
Errmmm - £80 000 is just under what a consultant gets if they are on the crap new contracts. very few MPs would be able to earn anything like £80 000 in the real world doing a real job - partly because jobs paying that much are very few and far between
I don't think the base salary is at all bad. It's top 10% of salaries, factor in expenses, most MPs claim back a lot of their day to day expenses which the rest of us have to pay. Pension is good and job security is not bad, most get at least a 5 year contract, I've only had one role that lasted longer than that. Do a good job and you are on a rolling contract. To be honest pay much more and you will attract people who are solely after the money, the salary package is plenty comfortable enough for people with the right mindset to not be out of pocket and focus on the job.
So no I don't think they should be paid more. I also think there should be zero second jobs and would like to see lot of caveat around subsequent employment, if you don't like it don't stand.
But for PM you don't want some random Joe off the street who's unemployable in any other sector, without any ability to lead, negotiate or manage. Corbyn tried that, and apart from anything else, he was somewhat lacking the skillset required to run a country or indeed a political party.
BoJo is a clown, but he is employable, and earned quite a lot being employed. He's also somewhat able to organise things - as shown being London mayor. Unfortunately, he also thinks he's born to lead and that's why he's doing it.
MPs salery is in the top 5% of UK earners.
Nicko - but there are perfectly capable people earning a lot less than that. Head teachers, hospital managers. to give two groups
Its funny isn’t it that ” pay to get the best people” applies to politicians and bureaucrats but not to doctors or nurses or teachers or police
Not in my opinion, I think most public sector workers are underpaid.
very few MPs would be able to earn anything like £80 000 in the real world doing a real job – partly because jobs paying that much are vwery few and far between
Many of the current crop yes, but some MP's and its easy to forget there are a lot of good hard working ones that deserve every penny they get and would be easily capable of earning more in the private sector. The ones milking it are not earning the majority of their cash through the MP salary.