Forum menu
Yes I know people in this situation thanks.
I also know their mindset if given a lump sum of cash they will spend on the here and now rather than something that will be upon them in months to come.
Giving them cash when they live for the moment is not the way to solve their financial problems, applying credit to their energy supplier but I'm guessing that's tooo much work for this sound bite gov
She might go LibDem at the next election, this was David Steel’s constituency, or not vote – unsure which, but if her ‘kind’ are looking elsewhere then our Tory MP is toast.
The Lib Dems are the natural home of disaffected Tories who can't bring themselves to vote Labour - look at the recent council elections.
There's a real danger that the anti-Tory vote will split and allow the bastards back in by the back door. An "Anything but Tory" coalition is a must.
Preferably with electoral reform as its uniting feature. PR may stop Labour forming a government on their own, FPTP may prevent them ever forming a government again.
I’ve contacted my spineless shit of a MP at least five times – never had a reply.
I can't imagine why.
I am sure that you must have made your point in your usual delightful way. Did you use the turd analogy much?
so how much is going to get pissed up against a wall in local boozer or wasted on a new playstation and how much will go on the leccy bill
It will all go on the leccy bill if it really comes to it. Not that it should in a modern, western democracy.
Shouting down good news (even if it is a crumb thrown from the top table) with Daily Fail style rantings is not clever.
I’m not dannyh, I am gardentiger.
But I know I have to be careful around you, given your *cough* ‘special’ status.
Kelvin’s comment will suffice – you broke it, you fix it.
But in actual fact I have done the first two things on your list.
I’ve contacted my spineless shit of a MP at least five times – never had a reply.
I’ve also been trying to cultivate like-minded local folk. They are all of a pretty similar opinion to me. It’s just that sensible centrists often don’t feel the need to roam around in packs for each other’s protection from alternative views. The same goes for fallen hippies who voted Leave, now regret it and want someone to say “there, there, it is OK to be confused”.
Why did you vote Leave, by the way?
@gardentiger/danny. I've not broken anything, politicians have been doing that themselves with a free pass.
Well done on making contact with your MP although bad luck you've not have any response. Have heard this many times and could be worth writing to their boss. Unsure whether the Public Administration and Constitutional Affairs Committee are able to help? From their website:
The Public Administration and Constitutional Affairs Committee (PACAC) is appointed by the House of Commons to examine: constitutional issues; the quality and standards of administration provided by Civil Service departments; and the reports of the Parliamentary and Health Service Ombudsman (PHSO). It is chaired by William Wragg MP. You can follow the Committee on Twitter @CommonsPACAC
Don't understand your objection to "roaming in packs". See my comments to other responses.
I've said before that I voted "leave" due to the overreach of the EU and the monstrosity it had become. Nothing has been done to address this apart from Thatcher many years ago. Nothing whatsoever to do with immigration and everything to do with the public not given a vote on what it has become and whether we're happy paying for that.
Said upthread that I don't believe the Tories seriously wanted to leave the EU. To answer your q I believe Johnson would be PM if the UK had stayed in the EU. He's not fussy which trough he feeds from.
Maybe should have issued vouchers for energy only. Or bike parts.
I can’t imagine why.
I am sure that you must have made your point in your usual delightful way. Did you use the turd analogy much?
I was polite whilst leaving him in no doubt he is on the wrong side of history. History being what he graduated in, so I thought a bit of an allusion to that might strike a chord.
There's no way I'd give him the excuse to dismiss me on grounds of me being personally insulting.
He is a spineless shit, mind.
I’ve not broken anything, politicians have been doing that themselves with a free pass.
A free pass you gave them.
To answer your q I believe Johnson would be PM if the UK had stayed in the EU.
You are kidding, right?
I’ve said before that I voted “leave” due to the overreach of the EU and the monstrosity it had become.
Specifically?
It is totally clear, just addressed to the wrong person.
No, I don't believe so. Carry on the pretence if you wish but you're fooling no-one except yourself.
They’re never happy. You’re not a true French person unless you’re finding fault and complaining about everything.
That's why they're on their fifth go at being a republic...
so how much is going to get pissed up against a wall in local boozer or wasted on a new playstation and how much will go on the leccy bill
I thought it was going to the people on UC - not the Tories?
And once again:
Would Boris Johnson be prime minister if the UK had voted Remain?
It is a simple enough question.
I know this was a directed question, but I've always enjoyed a bit of alternative history theorising.
For me, no, not a chance.
CMD saw a worrying rise in UKIP, not enough that they'd ever win a GE, but enough to leech votes from the Tories, or worse still enough that Eurosceptic Tory MPs defect.
I think buoyed by the easy win for him in the PR referendum he gambled his career on the Brexit referendum. If remain won, and it seemed unthinkable they wouldn't right up to the point the votes were counted, it would put the subject to bed for a decade or two.
'Supposedly', although who knows how true this is, Johnson only decided to back Leave at the last moment, his team were struggling to re-position him from the bumbling idol they'd some how managed to elect as London mayor to a 'proper' leader. I'd guess that if things followed the usual pattern of British Politics, the Tories would get another term or so in No10 before they screwed something up and then another 2 or 3 terms in opposition. If Johnson didn't take a chance then, he might not get another one, even for the Tories, he's not great candidate to take on an incumbent Labour Leader.
If I had to bet, I'd say CMD would still be PM now if Remain won, all things being equal.
Can you provide some links, please?
Also – will you be advertising your Leave credentials when you march?
The vast majority of worldwide demonstrations were not shown on the MSM.
There was a huge cross-section of folk on the London (medical freedom) march I attended including generations of families. Politically, from perusing some UK fora there's a lot of contempt for the Tories. Haven't a clue whether the Government are still ponying up for the MSM, certainly hope not!
No, I don’t believe so.
Well, that's your prerogative and there's not much I can do about that.
Just to add @gardentiger I voted Tory until some 20 years ago cos the writing was on the wall then. Now I have no intention of ever voting again, not even in local elections.
I’ve said before that I voted “leave” due to the overreach of the EU and the monstrosity it had become
A position you appear to have arrived at some time after the actual vote. I recall you saying you voted leave to give David Cameron a bloody nose.
A position you appear to have arrived at some time after the actual vote. I recall you saying you voted leave to give David Cameron a bloody nose.
Nope, was unhappy with what the EU had become a long time before the vote. I trusted DC as far as I could have thrown him. Was surprised that Remain didn't win though but regardless a simple 'yes' or 'no' is not the proper way to do something so important.
Any chance we could have another thread for people to just be unpleasant to one another?
I’m all for giving money to those who need it, but I’m not so happy that my taxes are going to support people who have generous pension pots, and property worth money the younger generations can only dream of.
There's a sweeping generalisation right there.
Can we give the whole gardentiger/dannyh thing a rest, or start another thread or get a room or something. Please.
Can we give the whole gardentiger/dannyh thing a rest, or start another thread or get a room or something. Please.
Or Can one of the mods do an IP address thing? It's distracting from the subject.
a simple ‘yes’ or ‘no’ is not the proper way to do something so important
Now there I agree, because 52:48 will split the UK for generations.
Not sure what you mean about EU overreach though, but then at heart I’m a cultural nationalist (signed up kilt owner) but political anti-nationalist.
Hefty economic block good, small minded nationalism / patriotism bad
The EU was (still is for others) a big members club with privileges for membership (which in our case was extra economic activity and jobs noticeably in excess of our membership fees) in exchange for following a set of rules that we had a major role in writing.
Now instead of a pan-European consensus driven economic block, we have an English government struggling to run a UK where it has little support and no consensus outside its English heartlands.
Has anyone seen Carrie recently? Asking for a friend......
I’ve had enough of you whining at those who voted for Brexit
I'm going to leave my part in this little sub- thread by saying this:
"You're only six years in and there's at least another ten before any of the damage is reversed. So I would make sure I was sitting comfortably if I was you".
I'm sure the Brexity Boris Circus will throw up another mind-****ingly stupid sub-topic in the next day or so - for us all to get our teeth into.
The EU was (still is for others) a big members club with privileges for membership (which in our case was extra economic activity and jobs noticeably in excess of our membership fees) in exchange for following a set of rules that we had a major role in writing.
And vetoing. Along with only three other members - who weren't such PITAs as the UK.
There’s a sweeping generalisation right there.
Not really. I’m not saying all pensioners are loaded, most aren’t. But many are far more comfortable than those of working age, and I resent giving them any more.
Give it to pensioners who struggle to heat their homes by all means, and indeed any other household who similarly struggles. Don’t however give it to the retired couple who live in a million pound house, live comfortably off their generous final salary pension, and manage 2 foreign holidays a year.
Has anyone seen Carrie recently? Asking for a friend……
She's gone full roadie, I fear that we'll never see her posting on here again
Not really. I’m not saying all pensioners are loaded, most aren’t. But many are far more comfortable than those of working age
Yep. 1 in 5 are millionaires! There's a few that are quite comfortable
I voted Tory until some 20 years ago cos the writing was on the wall then. Now I have no intention of ever voting again, not even in local elections.
The Tories love people that don't vote. Makes getting elected much easier for them.
Has anyone seen Carrie recently?
Probably doing her best Lady MacBeth with the Greased Piglet.
"Get your fat trotters off of me you silly little man. Only an idiot would have got caught."
Is MSM something to do with Microsoft? Somebody used it on here and it’s not an acronym I recognise.
MSG I know of course - ex of The Scorpions.
Main stream media?
Yep. 1 in 5 are millionaires! There’s a few that are quite comfortable
Not sure if you are being sarcastic or not, but I reckon if you include property wealth then it won’t be that far off that.
you're thinking of msn, msm is main stream media
My Silly Mistake?
Not sure if you are being sarcastic or not, but I reckon if you include property wealth then it won’t be that far off that.
Totally serious. Probably higher by now as 1 in 5 millionaires was 2018 ONS figures
Got it.
Main stream media
So the Daily Mail not the Huffington Post
Any chance we could have another thread for people to just be unpleasant to one another?
Check out this website, chock full of them....
https://singletrackworld.com/chat-forum/
Now I have no intention of ever voting again, not even in local elections.
Please reconsider. Especially local elections. It should be very easy to actually engage (you know, talk to) your local councillor. They may be doing things that directly benefit you and your community. And if they're not... find out who will... and give them your support instead.
Malicious Sado Masochism?
I gave up voting years ago, but they dutifully deliver to me a nice card made of just the right thickness of paper that makes excellent filters for my roll ups.
Of more use I feel.
I gave up voting years ago, but they dutifully deliver to me a nice card made of just the right thickness of paper that makes excellent filters for my roll ups.
Sticking it to the man by helping to keep the Tories in power
Sticking it to the man by helping to keep the Tories in power
Great solution to our problems isn't it?
Well, I will keep voting for whoever does the most damage to the Tories / Brexity as possible. I don't really care who because:
1) I'm pissing in the wind where I live.
2) I'm pissing in the wind nationally until a 'Anyone but the Tories' coalition is formed.
There's no way '2' will happen because the loony left of Labour will never allow it.
So basically - so much wind, so much piss, so much... er... largely ineffectual piss-mist.
😔
I've recently moved to a Tory ward, part of a Lib Dem council. On the 'anyone but the Tories' basis I voted Lib Dem, and we came within a couple hundred votes of unseating one of our Tory councillors.
Maybe next time eh?
Me? Stupid Moron?
Maybe next time eh?
Absolutely. Its an annoying slow process, especially in our instant gratification world, but change can happen. We've seen quite a shift with the greens gaining a lot of traction. I think there are plenty out there who won't vote for a 'fringe' party but once they start to see a slight change are happy to get in on it.
Seriously?!?! There are people that deliberately don't vote and are proud of it? Is this a direct consequence of all the "they're all the same" rhetoric or some misguided idea that it's the right thing to do?
As others have said it plays directly into the hands of the Tories.
Is this a direct consequence of all the “they’re all the same” rhetoric or some misguided idea that it’s the right thing to do?
Don't know, but I hear it a lot.
I met an old boy moaning about a footpath closure being done because a load of houses are going to be thrown up and the infrastructure needs to in.
I told him not to vote Tory and he said that exact line. I just told him that he couldn't be doing much worse and to maybe give it a try. The most extreme position I can imagine him taking would be not to vote at all - because he looked so put out by my suggestion. 🤷♂️
More Singletrack Musings? Oh and yes - fight the power.
Is MSM something to do with Microsoft? Somebody used it on here and it’s not an acronym I recognise.
msm is main stream media
It has a slightly different meaning in sexual health medicine literature, which can be confusing sometimes.
Seriously?!?! There are people that deliberately don’t vote and are proud of it?
No not proud, just painfully - and correctly - aware that their vote has no power and is entirely redundant. The whole point of democracy is to give people a choice over who governs them and what they do with that power. Our 'democracy' in most cases doesn't do that, so it's no suprise that many don't bother with the pretence.
Do you actually know anyone who’s struggling to make ends meet at the moment?
Or just read about them in the Daily Mail?
Go in any local spoons from 10am onwards and you'll see plenty of 'struggling' wasters settling themselves in for a days drinking.
Obviously there are a lot of genuine families that will be struggling, but the evidence is there to see that there are a good few who aren't as hard up as they make out to be.
Go in any local spoons from 10am onwards and you’ll see plenty of ‘struggling’ wasters settling themselves in for a days drinking.
Shocking. How can anyone justify such a life of luxury and self-fulfilment? Or maybe your one dimensional, snobbish and ignorant analysis doesn't hold up under the weight of the real life misery and hopelessness people experience which forces them to do such a thing?
Seriously?!?! There are people that deliberately don’t vote and are proud of it?
I've never voted, wouldn't claim to be "proud of it" just never have
Or maybe your one dimensional, snobbish and ignorant analysis
I grew up on a council estate with parents on the dole. Thanks for your judgement
I wonder why they’re in the spoons at 10am drinking
And I wonder how they can afford it - every day of the week
dahz nice selective quoting there. Of course we couldnt possibly accept that there are actually people out there who are actually responsible for their current situation and it's not all the fault of society.
I grew up on a council estate
Doesn't matter where you come from. Your comment was snobbish and ignorant, especially as you should have a better understanding of such things given your background. Poor people drink a lot. I'm amazed that surprises you.
I see another MP has handed a letter in
Still don't think it's enough
Crazy thing is he's now shaking the magic money tree like mad
But people still can't stand him
https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1529854990881259522?s=19
Poor people drink a lot.
Apparently so do those at 'the top' in Downing Street.
**** me, it looks like I'm even a centrist when it comes to alcohol.
🤦
Doesn’t matter where you come from. Your comment was snobbish and ignorant, especially as you should have a better understanding of such things given your background. Poor people drink a lot. I’m amazed that surprises you.
As stumpy said - nice selective quoting.
I drink a lot - I can afford to
I made a choice to not be like my parents and make something of my life. I see people from the same estate drinking in the town's spoons all day, every day. How do they afford it?
And I wonder how they can afford it – every day of the week
Because drinking in weatherspoons is cheaper than buying meths these days.
But yeah, you would expect people with financial difficulties to have a part-time drinking problem - not everyday ffs.
Largest lead for Labour since invasion of Ukraine.
Blimey, the largest lead Labour has had since the invasion of Ukraine is 9% ?!?
I guess there hasn't been too many bad headlines for the government. Perhaps a few negative headlines for Johnson will push the Labour lead into double figures.
Oh, ok, I give in. No one at all chooses not to work and they ONLY sit in the pub all day to drown out their abject misery because society has dealt them such a crap hand. I'm so stupid to think they would choose that lifestyle.
SOME Poor people drink a lot
FTFY rather unpleasant of you to tar all poor people with the same brush, many 'poor work bloody and manage to keep tgeir shift together despite what inequalities life throws at them.
especially as you should have a better understanding of such things given your background
Maybe he does because of his background. I've had the privilege of knowing a few people who have worked to get away from their background, they are are often the most vocal critics of people who succumb to their circumstances.
rather unpleasant of you to tar all poor people with the same brush
Came across as "snobbish and ignorant" to me.
But people still can’t stand him
He's in danger of walking into a period where his government has finally woken to the emergency measures required... but they, and least of all he, receive none of the thanks for it, having made it clear for months that they are politically against offering that help. A reluctant bailout for voters at the instigation of others looks a lot like trying to save political careers... where as the same announcement around the time of the first raising of the cap on domestic fuel prices would have given them a huge bump in support that they might still be riding. If it wasn't for Johnson and his continued lying, they might have been able to time things better for people stressed about paying the bills and for their only political futures.
That polling graph looks promising for both Labour and the LibDems as the by-elections approach.
Maybe he does because of his background
Thanks - I do, I grew up surrounded by people who couldn't be arsed to work because they were better off on benefits. None of them had a miserable existence. Granted this was 40 odd years ago and things are different now regarding living costs.
My parents decided they wanted £20/week board from me when I started my YTS (the only way to get an electrical apprenticeship at the time) on £35/week - the reason - they were losing child benefit because I had started working
Is there any data on North/south household energy usage? I assume people up North have to heat their houses more.
A pint every couple of hours in a warm, lit environment surrounded by company is probably cheaper and than heating your flat on a state pension and means you actually get to interact with people rather than staring at your damp, peeling wallpaper…
I grew up surrounded by people who couldn’t be arsed to work....My parents decided they wanted £20/week board from me
So the issues you had with your parents makes you qualified to look at people in pubs today and pass judgement on them?
Why don't you deal with your parent/child issues, move on, and just enjoy your drink, rather than worry how other people in a pub are paying for their drinks?
Granted this was 40 odd years ago and things are different now regarding living costs.
Things are different now in almost every way. Mrs Daz was a drug and alcohol support worker for 15 years in Manchester. She worked every day with the sort of people who drink every day in wetherspoons (we even used to see some of her clients when out and about, sometimes in the same pub). Many of them were on the sick with plenty enough money to drink regularly in places like wetherspoons. Some topped up their benefits with petty crime, drug dealing or prostitution. Some even did odd cash in hand jobs for extra beer money. Many of these people are in the situation they are as a result of being in care, victims of physical and mental abuse, ex-convicts, drug addiction etc. They're simply unemployable without significant amounts of professional support which the state isn't willing to give them. Easy to just assume they're lazy and ****less though isn't it? That way no one needs to do anything.
To be honest it's the electricity bill that is hurting us most (just north of Manchester) not the gas. And we get more daylight in the summer than Southerners.
Things are different now in almost every way.
This.
To be honest it’s the electricity bill that is hurting us most (just north of Manchester) not the gas.
Our electricity generation is still (stupidly) overly dependent on gas.
Many of these people are in the situation they are as a result of being in care, victims of physical and mental abuse, ex-convicts, drug addiction etc.
Some absolutely are, most though are more victims of their own (and their parents) attitudes. They are also virtually unemployable. There are also many people from the same backgrounds who haven't held themselves back and have made the most of the limited opportunities they have.
So the issues you had with your parents makes you qualified to look at people in pubs today and pass judgement on them?
Of course living a life of benefits culture makes me more qualified than some to comment on the attitudes of SOME people within said culture
My observation of social situations makes me qualified to have an opinion on what I see and the initial comment was in reply to a tangent of the thread where a suggestion was made that some of these contributions may be pissed up the wall. They undoubtedly will and if you think that isn't the case then you are sadly blinkered.
Why don’t you deal with your parent/child issues, move on, and just enjoy your drink, rather than worry how other people in a pub are paying for their drinks?
Why don't you accept people's views instead of telling them what to do? 🤷
Is this thread still going on about partygate, i'm sure a lot of the special advisors and civil servants aren't having to lower themselves to hitting wetherspoons just yet 😂
and I thought 'Carrie Out' was referring to the Abba party. Silly me.
I saw a Tweet earlier saying that the Senior Partygoers were not fined but the Juniors were - because the Juniors filled in their MET questionaires but the Seniors refused to.
As someone replied, there's a "life lesson" in there that you'd do well to learn from.