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Was surprised that there was some interesting questions from the usually partisan news outlets in there.
Maybe, just maybe his days ARE numbered. . . .
Are there any plans for a massive protest in London this weekend? Has anyone seen anything?Isn't it time 100,000s people packed the streets and demanded his resignation? Government is truly broken so it's time to march isn't it?
Was surprised that there was some interesting questions from the usually partisan news outlets in there.
Maybe, just maybe his days ARE numbered. . .
I did wonder if the the Dirty Digger being on the losing side in Australia, may change tack here so not have the same fate in the UK. Probably just double down and run with stories about the Saxcobergs and idiots island.
Are there any plans for a massive protest in London this weekend?
Thanks to Priti Vacant, I think this will be illegal.
It was a disgrace. He clearly didn’t want to be there, was advised to limit his responses and expected our gratitude for the extra ones. He’s thrown the No10 staffers under the bus, and will have to find a token person to fire. He also played to nationalists and Brexiteers in that he’ll focus on getting broken Britain done. Didn’t he say that before it got even more broken and after another scandal?
Finally, he proved the point by answering “No” to the question “Are you a liar…”
Actually, thanks to Extinction Rebellion and Kill the Bill protests, I think we still can march without getting arrested.
Note the word 'think' here. That is how bad the erosion of our freedoms have got.
Shudder!
I just made the mistake of looking on Facebook to see if there were plans for a protest. My God! There are so many people on his side! Many calling 'Sir Beer Starmer' the problem.
Weirdly makes me feel better somehow. I couldn't understand how Boris was continuing to survive, I just couldn't conceive how anyone could support him. Of course there are millions of people who don't think like me. I guess their opinions are as valid as mine.
Yuk!
If it's any consolation, Farage has attacked BoJo on GMB according to the express*, for delivering the wrong type of brexit.
*I like to peak into the extreme right wing press now and then to see what they are all still so angry about, now that they have got what they have voted for, and are refusing to 'get over it, and move on'.
My local MP is Tom Tugendhat so I've just emailed him to say (I paraphrase); Go on then Sunshine! Today would be a great day to make your mark in history.
just couldn’t conceive how anyone could support him.
Watching todays events it’s almost inconceivable, like I’ve missed something, yet can’t think what it is…
Know what you mean mate.
I can't even begin to understand a lot of people. I found/find the support for Trump inconceivable, but concluded that all Americans were mad (contrary to every American that I've met who seemed really nice). Turns out that all English are mad too (and probably quite nice in person generally).
Humans are effing mad! That's the only conclusion that can be drawn with certainty.
I couldn’t understand how Boris was continuing to survive, I just couldn’t conceive how anyone could support him. Of course there are millions of people who don’t think like me. I guess their opinions are as valid as mine.
Just go and look on other forums like Pistonheads, there's loads of posters defending him. Don't forget that the Tories have rigged the voting system to such an extent that they only really need to get a small percentage of the country to vote for them and they stay in power. There's enough people out there for them to easily do that right now. Johnson isn't going anywhere without a credible replacement available or until the voters threaten to remove the party's power.
Just typing that makes me feel very queasy.
The longer he hangs on as damaged goods the worse the Tories chances at the next election. Those leaets and postets showing him partying are electoral gold
I wouldn’t be so sure. All feels very early ‘80s again and look how long it took to get rid of that monster.
@tjagain I agree.
Who would the tories replace him with though? It's a pretty shallow pool of talent.
People said no one wanted the poisoned Cup when Theresa may got voted out.
It's a fascinating insight into the conservatives 'Road map for the future'. I'll give them that.
But then we have labour voters like Dazh refusing to vote labour because Starmer is 'too boring', so we are stuck in the perpetual cycle of BS.
Sadly the country needs leadership now, otherwise I’d take the 2 years on the chin to get shot of them.
I just couldn’t conceive how anyone could support him.
it puzzles me too. Acting as if he’s the downtrodden outsider seems to have worked, despite overwhelming facts to show to opposite
Of course there are millions of people who don’t think like me.
In my case this is clearly true. Sadly, a few percent too many.
I guess their opinions are as valid as mine.
Yuk!
I’m not sure I agree here. Their vote certainly counts just as much as much as mine, as it should.
But when the opinions are based on some of the BS you hear spouted, I’m not sure opinions are all equal. In my opinion…!
Dantz
Even if Johnson goes we don't get an election. We still get a tory pm.
Probably sunak, the ultimate off shore aficionado..but he's brown so you can't accuse him of racism, amirite?
Even if Johnson goes we don’t get an election. We still get a tory pm.
I think (hope) we all get that.
It's just that (to Dantsw13's point) the country needs a spot of leadership right now, and we won't get that from a populist clown who would struggle to tie his own shoe laces.
The (misguided??) assumption here is that we can't get anyone worse in charge but I think that's always ripe for discussion....
The nation is sleepwalking into the abyss.
We wont get leadetship from any tory. Truss? Sunack? Hunt?
From what I'm reading online, it's clear that an awful lot of people still think Brexit is the way to go and an awful lot of people think the Tories, whilst clearly there are problems, are still better than anyone else.
I'm watching from Spain, but I'll be in the UK on Friday and I'm staying on and off until September - so will be interesting to actually talk to people and see what the general feeling is.
Labour voters on the left leaning side will all but guarantee another period of tories by abstaining.
Labour supporters are literally sealing thier own fate.
And our greasy piglet of a PM knows this.
But then we have labour voters like Dazh refusing to vote labour because Starmer is ‘too boring’
No it’s because he’s a lying disingenuous coward who prioritises the maintenance of the status quo and the internal party control by the PLP over the interests of working people.
I probably will vote labour for no other reason than our local candidate deserves it, but it’ll leave a very sour taste in the mouth. Many like me won’t though, and that will be the difference between a majority and hung parliament.
One other point - don't ever underestimate the British ability to support the underdog. There are people who will be looking at Big Dog and feeling sorry for him, without doubt.
We wont get leadetship from any tory. Truss? Sunack? Hunt?
Whenever I’ve heard Hunt on the radio recently he’s been trying to sound composed and distance himself from BoJo. He’s clearly banking on this all going tits up and wants to look like the sane Tory option.
I really dislike Hunt from his days as Health sec but I kind of want to support his adherence to sanity. Unfortunately, betting on sanity prevailing increasingly looks like the wrong horse.
And here I am saying positive things* about Hunt. Shudder.
*Relative to the other options.
Then they should accept what voting that way means for the country.
Well, can't we at least start stepping in the right direction?
Labour voters on the left leaning side will all but guarantee another period of tories by abstaining.
Why would left wing voters support Starmer? He’s demonstrated time and again that he’s a right wing establishment technocrat who offers nothing to working people. Do you seriously believe he’ll address the crushing inequality we see in the UK? On what evidence? What policies is he proposing that will take power and wealth from the rich and return it to working people? What will he do to enable working people to support themselves and their families? What will he do to enable the kids of working people to get a quality education so they can get a good job and support themselves without relying on their parents? Starmer will change nothing, and just like Johnson he’ll pretend otherwise then make excuses for inaction.
*wrong thread BTW.
Why would left wing voters support Starmer?
I might be a blind man, but there are some things I can still see, the hard left of the party is still making labour unelectable, when the clear and present danger is labour voters allowing the conservatives to carry on.
You think that this country will vote for a left wing government?
When Trump was in I remember thinking then, what would he actually have to do for the tide to turn? It would have had to have been monumentally depraved for opinion to be swayed, Johnson's at the same level, even then he'd still be defended as it being a one off mistake or miss-judgement. Him and his cronies ain't moving an inch.
The nation set the bar with Brexit, that's the level we're at and that ain't changing anytime soon either.
I fundimentally don't agree with any Conservative policy's so it's hard to grasp what people actually see in the feller but the people get what the people want, we're at the mercy of the Ill informed, I'm alright jacks or just generally greedy, theres plenty of them. Sigh.
Maybe it's best if I just ignored the news altogether. I know someone who does and I don't think it negatively effects their life in any way, even with quite difficult circumstances.
Post Brexit, Trump, Covid, Ukraine and BoJo, the news has definitely affected my mental well-being. I wish I could ignore it, but sadly I still care.
He's a dead man walking. Hilarious that he refuses to budge, which makes everything worse for his party and better for the opposition. What a farce.
Opposition gains will be minimal and sink before the next election
Anyway, announcement tomorrow of the winter £150 to spend on getting pissed so that'll brighten everyone's day.
Why would left wing voters support Starmer?
Because if they don't they are effectively supporting Johnson. You have to be in power to effect change. Be that wholesale or within the party. Damn the Tories all you want but the vast majority of them are outwardly party, behind the scenes there will be concessions.
Whereas labour will happily eviscerate themselves on the public stage them wonder why noone supports them.
You think that this country will vote for a left wing government?
I think everyone in this country who is neither rich or a racist would vote for a party which would unashamedly redress the imbalance in wealth, power and opportunity between the vast majority and a tiny few rich people. That’s not left wing, just common sense basic fairness. No one will vote for it though if the party putting it forward is too embarrassed, frightened or cowardly to make the case.
Because if they don’t they are effectively supporting Johnson.
Is that the sales pitch? ‘We’re not the tories’. And you wonder why people don’t want to vote for them?! This may come as a surprise but people want something to vote for. They think all politicians are the same. That’s why Johnson won in the first place. It’s why Corbyn overturned a 20 point poll deficit and came extremely close (a few thousand votes in fact) to deposing May. Because they offered something different, something positive.
You think that this country will vote for a left wing government?
The people of this country are in favour of a lot of left wing policies.
The people of this country are in favour of a lot of left wing policies.
Do you mix with white van man and Hyacinth Bucket? Because to them Johnson can do no wrong. Labour's only hope is to copy the tactics Blair/Brown used.
There is no uk wide left wing party to vote for
Hard right tories. Soft right lib dems. Centrist labour. In Scotland we get slightly left of centre snp
Labour’s only hope is to copy the tactics Blair/Brown used.
You mean the very same tactics that saw them haemorrhage millions of votes after 97 and then lost two elections in 2010 and 2015? 97 was very different to now, you can’t just repeat something from 25 years ago and expect the same result, especially when recent elections demonstrate the opposite.
In Scotland we get slightly left of centre snp
And a little to the right where they need too 😁
Blair brought optimism and gave people something positive to vote for. I don't see the harm of SKS trying this.
More strikes occur under Labour and industrial action leads to progress so that's every optimistic reason to vote Squeaky Starmer.
When Trump was in I remember thinking then, what would he actually have to do for the tide to turn?
Agreed. The man literally advised people to inject themselves with bleach. 72 million Americans still voted for him.
Caher
Full MemberLabour’s only hope is to copy the tactics Blair/Brown used.
Ah yeah, the "Blair made Labour electable" myth again.
What they should do, is copy the tactics John Smith used, since he paved the way for Blair and would have been prime minister had he lived.
How is 3 election wins a myth?
Do you really not know? The 3 wins don't show Blair made Labour electable- they show that Labour was electable. That was done by John Smith. Well, and John Major. Blair inherited his winning hand, then won 2 more elections with steadily falling voter share.
The 3 wins are no myth of course but the idea that to get there you copy Blair is. And tbf it's a huge part of the problems Labour has today- they're pretty bad at learning from mistakes but they're worse at learning from successes. The route that actually took them to power has been forgotten
Perhaps 7 more years of Tory rule will do it.
I guess their opinions are as valid as mine.
They're not, because they're halfwits.
Unfortunately their vote counts the same as yours, though.
I've long believed that some sort of basic IQ test should be a prerequisite for the right to vote. Stupid people need protecting from themselves. 🤷♂️
And still no one answers the question:
Would Boris Johnson be prime minister if the UK had voted Remain?
We all know the answer. It all stems from that stupid referendum. All of it.
The infantile foreign policy. The cretinous economic policy. The "3 word signs are enough" tendency. The hopeless "worst of all worlds" covid response. The lockdown pissups. The contempt for the public.
All of it stems from that moment of national disgrace. All of it. Those who voted for it should hang their heads in shame. But most haven't got the self-awareness to think their way out of a wet paper bag.
The irony in this statement is that it’s so f***** stupid you probably wouldn’t pass your own test.
I'm pretty sure I would.
Danny if you’re gonna create a new account at least change the persona too.
Strange isn't it?
That he bothered to create a new account with a different username I mean.
Since I was a kid I've always thought that people should have to sit a detailed exam on how economies/societies worked and the policies/manifestos/history of the political parties before they can cast a vote.
I wouldn't have considered myself eligible btw. Maybe by my current age I would have decided to swot up on it.
I also believe that humans are a scourge on the earth though and that it'd be better if we faced a 100% extinction event. Sadly, I believe we will, but we'll rape and destroy the planet as we go down fighting. If I've learnt one thing over the last ten years, it's that it doesn't matter what people say, they'll remain self centered to the very end. (Me included. It's just the nature of species)
The human race does qualify as an invasive species when you look at it. We also qualify as a virus when you view the Earth as the host. I was saying so back in high school well before a certain film series popularised the idea but people couldn't see it as we're looked at as the best of evolution and thus Top Dog. But that's off-topic so I'll leave that there.
Perhaps 7 more years of Tory rule will do it.
If they manage to win the next election I wouldn't put it past them to remove the rules that say an election has to be held after a certain time. What would we do about it, protest? We're still heading down a very scary path while this lot are in power.
Majority of politicians wouldn't pass a test - certainly on the understanding of economics. They don't even know how their own country finances itself.
It's dogmatic and completely irresponsible to believe the current system serves the population on a long term time frame.
Same goes for Centrism which is wedded to neoliberalism which shafts the vulnerable.
And yes there is a problem with the way people understand this but it's because few politicians are actually strong enough to stand up against it.
I also believe that humans are a scourge on the earth though and that it’d be better if we faced a 100% extinction event
God, I hate this guff - what's the point in the existence of a planet without intelligent life?
Granted, we may not be THAT intelligent, but the alternative - a lump of rock floating about with some bees and fluffy bunnies going about their business uninhibited. Utopia maybe, but for what?
In the event of 100% extinction, it's just a lump of rock floating in space with virtually nothing alive, maybe some amoeba's will form something with a brain a few trillion years later. Let's just roll with how far we've come, I'm sure we'll cope for a few years yet you bloody hippie 😉
God, I hate this guff
Agreed. Nihilistic edgelord bullshit. My normal response is, "why not be the change you want to see?" but apparently that's a personal attack. Wishing everyone on Earth dead is fine though...
Hard right tories
You think these set of idiots in charge are hard right? They really are not
I fundimentally don’t agree with any Conservative policy’s so it’s hard to grasp what people actually see
They have been fooled for the last 40 years. My mother votes Conservative but when I just talk about policies and high level difference between parties she is very much more Labour voter than Conservative.
She just can't vote Labour due to ingrained problem with them, last time because of that Corbyn man.
I think it has also been tested across a wider group that when testing policies in polls rather than parties that Labour polices tend to be more favourable.
Completely rip up how voting/elections work and get people to vote on 10 high level strategies/approaches/policies and then have a government that takes the lead from that.
Well… clear that they knew that what they were doing was incongruous with the rules and advice they were delivering for the rest of us…
https://twitter.com/jack_blanchard_/status/1529411917219086338?s=21
STR. Extinction of humans, not everything.
That leaves plenty of intelligent life on the planet rather than one species that thinks its intelligent but is in fact incredibly stupid.
You think these set of idiots in charge are hard right? They really are not
Their policies on immigration, attacking media they don't agree with, shutting down peaceful protest, limiting judicial oversight, deliberately stoking divisive culture war issues and of course Brexit...
Their policies on immigration, attacking media they don’t agree with, shutting down peaceful protest, limiting judicial oversight, deliberately stoking divisive culture war issues and of course Brexit…
A lot of people don't look at these policies and see the connection to the early stages of far right/dictatorial regimes, both historically and more recently.
Those who don't learn from the mistakes of history etc....
Not sure who this Danny you speak of is. I guess he must have upset the small hard left cabal that circle jerk on the political threads around here. 🤷♂️
Back to the question:
Would Boris Johnson be prime minister if the UK had voted Remain?
And still no one answers the question:
Would Boris Johnson be prime minister if the UK had voted Remain?
We all know the answer. It all stems from that stupid referendum. All of it.
It is quite fun to play "what if" but I'm not sure a huge amount would really have changed, we'd have had about five more uninterrupted years of call-me-Dave and George; austerity would have really bitten the working poor, pretty much the same tactics would have been used to beat Corbyn, I think the main difference might have come when Covid hit, George would have tried to tell us all the cupboard was still bare, so eat out to help out or free LFTs from a government trying to prove they were on top of things... Perhaps the rhetoric and political temperature would have been a bit cooler...
But we'll never know, and now we have to deal with the situation as it is.
Unfortunately I think Boris has actually managed to ride this one out, the 54 letters should be in by now IMO, if they're not submitted by CoP today I reckon he's staying put till the next GE.
what’s the point in the existence of a planet without intelligent life?
Maybe rather than a reactionary post on an internet forum you might dwell on that for a bit, there’s some pretty intellectual deep thinking that can be done on that.
Granted, we may not be THAT intelligent, but the alternative – a lump of rock floating about with some bees and fluffy bunnies going about their business uninhibited. Utopia maybe, but for what?
You kind of made his point, life and the universe isn’t always about you/humans.
Would Boris Johnson be prime minister if the UK had voted Remain?
No. Or if he was, he’d have to point to something other than “got Brexit done” when asked what the point of him and his team was.
Oh, and as for the side chat… I love people, I want humankind to flourish.
You think that this country will vote for a left wing government?
We do, in my country.
#Scotland
Would Boris Johnson be prime minister if the UK had voted Remain?
It's a simple enough question. I didn't ask "would things have been broadly similar if Call Me Dave had stayed after a Remain majority?"
Would Cameron have been stupid enough to do all this Partygate shit? No. Would he have been stupid enough to get caught? Definitely no. Would he have been in power with the help of a machiavellian shit like Cummings with the inevitable Rooney-Vardy soap opera style fallout and revenge story line? No.
Lockdown pissups under Theresa May? Not likely. If only because no one would have turned up.
Add 'Partygate' to the long list of **** ups.
The hopeless response as Kabul fell - Raab - would not be anywhere near a senior minister role if it wasn't for Brexit.
The A-Level exams debacle - Williamson - would not be anywhere near a senior minister role if it wasn't for Brexit. Sorry, that should be Sir Gavin Williamson - would not now be a knight of the realm if it wasn't for B...
On and on and on.
This is what people voted for, they should own it.
Barclay's turn to debase himself defending the fly tipped sofa this morning.
Either he's very stupid or he has a personal agenda. He's not stupid. People who believe his bullshit are.
Radio4? That was a very revealing interview... mostly because of his multiple attempts not to reveal anything at all. Doubling down on the idea that the PM didn't know about anything that was going on around him, day in day out, week after week, month after month. Every listener must have been completely incredulous, and I'm sure at some point everything Barclay has been sent out to say for Johnson this morning will be dumped and denied, and a new story (which we're not even supposed to believe) concocted and given to willing followers to fill the airwaves and column inches with.
Oh... and attending a leaving do was "essential" work for a leader during a pandemic, even when that leaving do has resulted in fines for attendees. When pushed on this, as regards all other leaders with staff... it got honed down to a description that basically meant it was only true for the PM. Which I suppose is a kind of honesty. It's Johnson and how rules relate to him, after all.
The question about the death of a member of cleaning staff from Covid would have stopped a normal human in their tracks... the way Barclay shrugged it off was unbelievable cold. Quite impressive, in a dark horrible way.
"56 [MPs] are under investigation for sexual misconduct, and that includes three of his Cabinet ministers" BBC in March
How long will that take?
God, I hate this guff – what’s the point in the existence of a planet without intelligent life?
Why does there have to be a point?
All the current BS being spread is setting the scene for the HoC committee investigation into whether Johnson intentionally misled parliament. He/they are playing the line that he reasonably thought what he said was correct. He wasn't there, he didn't know.
We all know its BS, but he is creating his defense.
Indeed. And because it's so unbelievable... he's sending out people to lie for him to reduce how many times he must deliver the blatant lie personally. He knows it's a lie. Those seeding the lie know that it is a lie. The interviewers know it's a lie. The committee members will all know it's a lie. Most of the public know it's a lie. Truth doesn't matter. Keeping the dear leader in power is all that matters...
...time to watch Hypernormalisation again.
The question about the death of a member of cleaning staff from Covid would have stopped a normal human in their tracks… the way Barclay shrugged it off was unbelievable cold. Quite impressive, in a dark horrible way.
The name of the cleaner?
Emanuel Gomes.
You and I both know exactly what the Brexies would be thinking...