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looks very much to me like non-dom status will be retained and this whole paying UK tax on all earnings thing is temporary
Yep pay a little tax until the media furore blows over then back to business as usual.
I think that’s actually worse than sticking to the it’s legal defence.
Still Rishi Rich.
Big multinational. Pay tax on UK earnings, will she now be "employed" in a low tax state and have no UK earnings?
The inheritance tax is a doozy. I assume it's based on the nationality/state the deceased has. So to her from parents whatever is in India but from her down the non-dom means that even though houses, education and to a plebeian like me she looks like a UK citizen her estate will not be subject to UK inheritance tax
and this whole paying UK tax on all earnings thing is temporary
Yeah, it's just the price they're clearly willing to pay for what they think they'll get in return. If you think his wife's suddenly prepared to pay several millions to keep her husband in his £150K job, you really need to question why that might be.
I think that’s actually worse than sticking to the it’s legal defence.
I agree… but it could be enough to get this out of the media. I suspect many papers at least will jump on the opportunity to “move on”… not least the ones owned by a non-dom.
This distraction has clearly worked...a thread all about Boris and the last 2 and a bit pages have been about the chancellor...even in this place that likes to get so anally detailed on stuff, his power of distraction is strong...
This distraction has clearly worked
The discussion of Fishy Rishi isn’t letting Johnson off the hook, it’s adding to his problems. It may well help remove an immediate threat, and no doubt there’s a little payback involved for Sunak’s less than enthusiastic support during partygate, but it all adds to a general negative view of the tories.
Yeah, from everyone who doesn't vote for them, but how much of an impact for the Tory voters who default to voting for them? Guess we'll find out with the elections coming up soon.
This distraction has clearly worked
I do wonder who leaked it.
The attempt to blame labour doesnt make sense. For them it would be far better to use it at the next GE especially given the non zero chance that it would be Sunak in charge then. Might have done some damage for the local elections but not worth expending it on.
So either Johnson or one of the other competitors wanting to remove Sunak from the competition.
The inheritance tax is a doozy. I assume it’s based on the nationality/state the deceased has. So to her from parents whatever is in India but from her down the non-dom means that even though houses, education and to a plebeian like me she looks like a UK citizen her estate will not be subject to UK inheritance tax
For non-doms, IHT is payable on the UK based assets, for doms it is payable on the worldwide assets (subject to double taxation treaties). This worked in our favour when my mum died as she was domiciled in Australia (in the sense of actually having settled there).
Indeed, which is why, I suspect, the Chancellor of the Exchequer’s wife is staying a non-dom, to reduce what she pays to the Exchequer on the event of her inheriting vast wealth… which of course she (and everyone else) hopes will happen after her husband’s career, not imminently.
[ EDIT: sorry, that doesn’t fit in with what you were saying… I’ll leave it up anyway ]
I do wonder who leaked it.
Ditto, the only thing that held off a VNC for Bozza last time was back benchers not quite sure about viable alternatives, Lil' Rishi was looking strong after doing some handouts and being smart enough to just stay quiet during party gate...
In my head the scene is as follows;
Carrie is sat in the No.10 flat half admiring her own taste in wallpapers, half watching a news channel, reclining on a restored 16th century chaise.
All of a sudden the chancellor's face pops up on the screen and her countenance imperceptibly darkens for a moment, then lifts again as a course of action presents itself. She snaps her fingers and a servant brings over an ornate red telephone that requires no dialing, the line goes directly to a Barclay brother.
She lifts the handset and in a flat monotone simply says:
"Sunak's Wife..."
She drops the phone for the servant to retrieve and back away then flicks across the channels until she finds 'a place in the sun' and laughs heartly at the pitifully mediocre retirement dreams of Ian and Claire from Hull...
48 hours later the threat is diminished, and dizzy Liz will take care of herself, Carrie is now hooked on bargain hunt.
The thing is, when you call something a smear and then it inevitably turns out to be true, you're admitting that the true thing is also bad enough to be used to smear someone. It's a stupid thing to say when you know you're guilty as charged.
Someone up the page mentioned that this is the Boris Johnson thread and that it's effectively derailing criticism of him by having Sunak here and it's true, but, it's useful to remember nothing is in isolation. Why does sunak think the rules don't apply and he can just bullshit and lie and handwave his way through everything? Because his boss does exactly that. This is the floodgate we've opened
Someone up the page mentioned that this is the Boris Johnson thread and that it’s effectively derailing criticism of him by having Sunak here and it’s true
Is it? Bozza does not exist in a vacuum. Plus I don't recall ever seeing a "Rishi! Sunak!" thread before. It's like Sunak was only ever just a supporting character in the political satire that has BoJo in the leading role and if the chancellor gets a bit too much limelight people suddenly get all upset...
Rishi is just the latest one to be lobbed on the sacrificial altar of Johnson's career, he might yet survive, but he's going to be less if a challenger. The story isn't Sunak, it's the shoring up of BoJo as PM, does this help him towards a second term? Who really knows.
An interesting read on the man.
https://twitter.com/RichardJMurphy/status/1512330297949446147?s=20&t=8baKXRXInbv8aJxX8dNt0A
DickBarton
Full Member
This distraction has clearly worked…a thread all about Boris and the last 2 and a bit pages have been about the chancellor…even in this place that likes to get so anally detailed on stuff, his power of distraction is strong…
Yeah, Rishi Sunak is a dead fish politically, he will barely survive a reshuffle, same as what happened with the last golden boy (Williamson), but the last few pages are not caring about the politics, or Boris, it's about the rich and how terrible they are, as they all appear to know his wife well and what she's really like, and who she is, due to her finances.
as they all appear to know his wife well and what she’s really like
I missed those posts. What is she really like?
but the last few pages are not caring about the politics, or Boris, it’s about the rich and how terrible they are, as they all appear to know his wife well and what she’s really like, and who she is, due to her finances.
Some more distraction thrown out, it’s just an attack because she’s rich nothing to do with a real unease at the general do as I say not as I do Tory way at present. No it’s all we hate the rich.
ernielynch
Free Member
as they all appear to know his wife well and what she’s really likeI missed those posts. What is she really like?
I'll leave it to you to look back through the past few pages, or search for tax evasion, or the post about 5 above this discussing her.
On the plus side ,another person with a knife to stick in Dumbojo's back
I’ll leave it to you to look back through the past few pages, or search for tax evasion, or the post about 5 above this discussing her.
Well perhaps I haven't been paying enough attention but I have learnt absolutely nothing about Akshata Murty other than she has apparently used laws dating back centuries to avoid paying tax.
It would appear that the non-dom status which she has established for herself is used almost exclusively by the super rich. It is fair on that basis to assume that she is herself extremely wealthy.
I find your concern that she might have received unfair criticism on this thread touching argee. I can't see much evidence of that myself but try not to worry too much because in the words of Michael Foot :
"The top is greedy and mean and will always find a way to take care of themselves. They always do”
Weirdly since the tories came to power the number of non domiciles in the uk had dropped by about half I believe
As for Michael foots comments, again they are just pointless, if you changed the word ‘top’ for say, ‘Jewish’ would you still think it was a good statement?
if you changed the word ‘top’ for say, ‘Jewish’ would you still think it was a good statement?
You have obviously completely missed the point of the quote. It is in relation to whom we should be most concerned about, since you appear to believe that the super rich are getting a bum deal on thread.
Perhaps a fuller quote might help :
"We are not here in this world to find elegant solutions, pregnant with initiative, or to serve the ways and modes of profitable progress. No, we are here to provide for all those who are weaker and hungrier, more battered and crippled than ourselves. That is our only certain good and great purpose on earth, and if you ask me about those insoluble economic problems that may arise if the top is deprived of their initiative, I would answer ‘To hell with them.’ The top is greedy and mean and will always find a way to take care of themselves. They always do.”
As I said, your obvious concern for the super-rich is touching, there are however worthier causes.
Attacking greed and meanness is very clearly not the same as attacking Jews, despite your bizarre comparison.
Furthermore the super-rich are not, not yet at least, suffering pogrom levels of persecution.
Is it? Bozza does not exist in a vacuum. Plus I don’t recall ever seeing a “Rishi! Sunak!” thread before. It’s like Sunak was only ever just a supporting character in the political satire that has BoJo in the leading role
Like sideshow Bob.
Weirdly since the tories came to power the number of non domiciles in the uk had dropped by about half I believe
I'd be interested to see the figures if you have them.
Since BoJo is under 60 can't he be pressganged into the Ukrainian army?
Like sideshow Bob.
I'd vote for Bob. At least he has a plan.
I’d be interested to see the figures if you have them.
I don't know the figures but quite feasible imo.
Acknowledging widespread public revulsion at the practice a Tory Chancellor said :
British people should pay British taxes in Britain - and now they will.
It is not fair that people live in this country for very long periods of their lives, benefit from our public services, and yet operate under different tax rules from everyone else.”
Non-dom status is a fairly longstanding political hot potato in UK politics, the Tories have in the past had little choice but to at least attempt to curb it, if not abolish it.
Not attempting to do anything about it ran the risk of providing Labour with extra ammunition and the increased possibility of forming a government which would completely abolish it.
Public councern mounted when it was revealed that Gulliver, the HSBC chief executive, was able to be non-domiciled, despite being born and educated in the UK. Although Gulliver lives in the UK and runs a British bank, he was able to argue he should not pay tax on his income from outside the UK because he had worked abroad and intended to move to Hong Kong after retiring.
Not attempting to do anything about it ran the risk of providing Labour with extra ammunition and the increased possibility of forming a government which would completely abolish it.
Weirdly when a Labour government got into power the Non-Dom numbers doubled from 70,000 (1997) to 140,000 (2008) claiming this status and were at 115,000 when Labour left government in 2010.
It might also be worth noting that if Non-Domicile didn't exist, the myriad of other tax avoidance schemes are still in effect and offer similar, or even better levels of reducing taxation on earnings.
Weirdly when a Labour government got into power the Non-Dom numbers doubled
Not weird at all. I said "longstanding political hot potato in UK politics", I didn't mention the Tories.
New Labour had a very well-known close association with the super-rich.
However by the time of the 2015 general election, possibly because of the increased numbers of non-doms, but probably because of media revelations (hating rich people according to you) such as the example in the last paragraph of my previous post, it had become a hot election issue.
It was simply impossible to justify.
And there is little doubt that Ed Miliband, keen to make New Labour be seen as history, would have tackled the issue, more than likely much more firmly than the Tories, had Labour won the GE.
You would expect more wealthy people to go for non-dom status if they thought the government at the time was likely to impose higher taxes on them. And wealthy people do think labour governments will tax them more (and sometimes they are right).
The current government has a tax system that is favourable to the rich. I am not filthy rich, but I am embarrassed at the amount of tax I don't pay, and I don't need a loophole or scheme, I just fill in the form truthfully and there it is.
The blond sofa has been poncing around Ukraine today reiterating UK support - although that support seems to stop at the point there are refugees wanting asylum.
Mildly surprised that he was wearing a suit, I thought he'd have gone for the full combat gear look.
Mildly surprised that he was wearing a suit, I thought he’d have gone for the full combat gear look.
Seems like his favourite programme as a kid was Mr Benn
Mildly surprised that he was wearing a suit, I thought he’d have gone for the full combat gear look.
After Von Der leyen went there yesterday I imagine he was in such a desperate rush, they couldnt get anything to fit in time
Am I cynical to think he doesn’t give a shit about the plight of Ukraine - this is just making himself look crucial to the effort, so he can bat away resignation questions?
“Got Ukraine Done” to go with Brexit & Covid.
Mildly surprised that he was wearing a suit, I thought he’d have gone for the full combat gear look.
First thing I thought was is he wearing a bullet vest under that shirt? I thought he had lost more weight ?
But then a vest isn’t going to stop a rocket landing on your head
Cynical at his reasoning for going, but he’s got a level of balls, will piss off Putin too
Am I cynical to think he doesn’t give a shit about the plight of Ukraine – this is just making himself look crucial to the effort, so he can bat away resignation questions?
Has photo taken next to popular bloke for reflected glory.
Well, I’m glad he went, and won’t knock him for it (I have big enough list of things already).
if you changed the word ‘top’ for say, ‘Jewish’ would you still think it was a good statement?
Oh FFS did you really just say that?
Cynical at his reasoning for going, but he’s got a level of balls, will piss off Putin too
Not sure it shows a level of balls or desperation for a photo op at ‘any’ cost.
Not sure that Putin would want to lose his asset just yet.
But is Johnson an asset any more? Brexit has happened, we no longer have a chair at the top table of the EU so no influence there, the money laundering alley through London seems to be closing and the UK is seen as a joke on the World Stage in general. Seems like Putin has got all he needs out of us so casting us off now wouldn't really be an issue. If Johnson puts himself inadvertently in harm's way in a War zone then what would stop him being 'accidentally' taken out? would send a very powerful message to everyone else if it did happen. Yes it would most likely trigger WWIII but then Putin isn't living in the same reality as we are so it's not impossible.
Can’t quite believe I’m saying this ( it’s a long time he did the right thing imho ) but
Fair play to Boris for the visit Kyiv
Let’s hope he agreed to send lots of useful stuff to them ASAP.
Fair play for him going, but i wouldn't have shed many tears if a rocket landed on him. Would have been upsetting if it had got zelensky too though
Why "fair play"? He's looking to cash in without actually doing anything or giving anything. All this " we stand with" is bollox. He will give some weapons that he won't pay for but his pension pot will benefit from and he is in absolutely no danger.
What has he actually done on the back of this apart from get his face in the paper and made some empty promises.
Vlad's done with Johnson and Trump. He's got the UK isolated and looking like total twunts on the world stage. He's got America split down the middle and non-interventionist. And all for the price of a few FB ads, a few strategic bungs for greedy shits wanting to capitalise on an economic shock and a couple of hookers.
And to think the Soviets bankrupted themselves trying to achieve the same.
You've got to hand it to him. And no one in 'the west' should be surprised - Putin wasn't disrupting western democracy just for a laugh. The idea of an investment is that you collect on it later.
Don't understand all this 'fair play' stuff,
seems to be the orthodoxy on the twittersphere too
I'm afraid I'm one of the sneerers. all he's done is waddle round Kyiv centre, at minimal personal risk and saying nonsense like 'how are you?" to zelenski
I appreciate it defuses righteous criticism if you slag off everything he does but what is it he's actually done here aside from the minimal symbolic visit* It's no longer a hot zone
*And that's leaving aside the performing and distraction for his domestic audience
No, **** him
I think people just want to ‘Believe’ in some good news for once.
Can’t beat a feel good story regardless of reality.
Vlad’s done with Johnson and Trump. He’s got the UK isolated and looking like total twunts on the world stage. He’s got America split down the middle and non-interventionist. And all for the price of a few FB ads, a few strategic bungs for greedy shits wanting to capitalise on an economic shock and a couple of hookers.
How's Putin isolated the UK, or looking like twunts on the world stage, or that the US are split down the middle, i've not seen much of this in the press or coverage?
Why “fair play”? He’s looking to cash in without actually doing anything or giving anything. All this ” we stand with” is bollox.
100% this.
How’s Putin isolated the UK, or looking like twunts on the world stage, or that the US are split down the middle
You are joking, aren't you? You just forgot the wonky smiley, yeah?
Even if it wasn't Putin, the Brexit show with Boris has been a perfect comedy for the rest of the world and provided many hilarious moments - for everyone but the people on this island. And yes, we looks like absolute idiots for how our government and politics is now going.
That is clear to see everywhere you look...
What’s going to be tediously predictable, as the local elections approach, is the threat to trigger article 16 and other general anti-EU sabre-rattling to fire up the Brexity racist pensioner base to get out and vote
The unity needed to stand against Putin over Ukraine will be the next thing to be casually sacrificed on the alter of Johnson’s monstrous planet-sized ego
I think just about every European leader has been to visit Zelensky in the past week. Ursala von de Leyen was there the day before Johnson and even visited Bucha to see the site of the killings.
I think just about every European leader has been to visit Zelensky in the past week.
Cynically, I suspect that is the main reason Boris went out there. Desperate not to be upstaged by Europe and attempting to show that we still matter.
Even if he was doing the right thing, I wouldn't believe it.
Most people on here can’t stand BJ, and neither can I. But if the question was do you hate him more for going or not going- I would say he comes out better for going.
If it helps in the slightest, I’m all for it, and I have to say I was surprised and glad to see him make the effort.
Johnson likes to think of himself as a modern day Churchill, so while he may not truly care about the plight of Ukraine he probably does relish the thought of being a heroic wartime leader. I expect that his childhood dreams of being world leader/prime minister of the UK revolved more around giving stirring speeches and looking heroic than concentrating on the details of trade agreements and pandemic procedures.
Johnson likes to think of himself as a modern day Churchill,
yeah, lets hope he hands in his notice and heads off to the western front.
Well, I’m glad he went, and won’t knock him for it
Will go to Kyiv, won't go to Liverpool.
Or go on Channel4 News.
Yes it would most likely trigger WWIII
Typical , we all die because someone took out the UK’s biggest twunt .
Fair play to him going, though I'm in the cynical reflected glory camp.
Was hoping a Russian sniper might have missed Zelensky and taken out Boris by accident, but never mind.
Leaves Starmer in a predicament for publicity, probably be seen at tank factory next week.
Is this the same BJ who's currently putting a number of road blocks in front of Ukranian refugees trying to enter the UK?
Is this the same BJ who’s currently putting a number of road blocks in front of Ukranian refugees trying to enter the UK?
Sideshow Boris.
His time would have been better spent cutting the red tape bullshit to allow them in.
At least he’s avoiding the Rishi scandal though eh 😉
On the Rishi thing...his wife is going to pay UK tax on stuff, but surely if everything is legit then she'll get it all back as a rebate, no?
How’s Putin isolated the UK
Brexit. Leave received illegal funding from Russia. That may well have been enough to tip the result.
Looking like twunts on the world stage
Really? Boris Johnson is our Prime Minister. Liz Truss is our foreign secretary. Plus many others. Most of our senior ministers are only in their jobs due to Brexit and the purge of non-idiots that followed.
America split down the middle
Biden can't move because the balance is so fine in the US between normal people and card carrying white supremacists (who, despite all their posturing are totally devoid of any sense of duty in the world). The US suffered an assault on the Capitol in the wake of the Biden election and there are still plenty of straw-chewing hood-wearing rednecks who would take a pot shot at Biden and believe the election was stolen.
That enough?
Putin stirred both those pots very effectively. Google Vladislav Surkov if you want to get an idea of the asymmetric info wars stuff that gives Putin a boner. But, I'm guessing you already knew all this stuff anyway, just prefer to try to deflect from it. 🤷♂️
cutting the red tape
I think we've pretty much established that what the bunch of strokers we have as a government mean by 'cutting red tape' is 'imposing further unnecessary red tape'.
You have obviously completely missed the point of the quote.
Not unintentionally I'd wager.....
DickBarton
Full Member
How’s Putin isolated the UK, or looking like twunts on the world stage, or that the US are split down the middleYou are joking, aren’t you? You just forgot the wonky smiley, yeah?
Even if it wasn’t Putin, the Brexit show with Boris has been a perfect comedy for the rest of the world and provided many hilarious moments – for everyone but the people on this island. And yes, we looks like absolute idiots for how our government and politics is now going.
That is clear to see everywhere you look…
I misunderstood the OP's statement, i thought he was on about the current Ukraine situation, not reading the Brexit / Trump thing, makes sense now for that.
As for the twunts stuff, i just see us in the UK seeing our government as twunts, but it's the same in every country, i think we feel we have the monopoly on bad politicians, but we really don't, France have a bunch of them, same in Germany, USA, etc, etc, how much they look like twunts on the world stage depends on how badly they're doing, Macron is doing a good job of being a bit of a prat these days, funnily enough he's just entering a harsh election round!
I'd just ssumed BJ needed to go to Ukraine becuase Liz Truss would have gone instead and now that he's leaked enough dirt about Sunak he can concentrate on Lizzie now and take her thunder.
it’s the same in every country
It really isn't.
That's the same hymn sheet as "they're all as bad as each other" that the Brexies trot out.
Obviously there are chancers, shysters and crooks vying for political position in most countries - but the electorate in most countries doesn't put them in a position where they actually attain it. Sadly not the case in the UK.
^^^
I should say 'developed' countries there. Truly tinpot kleptocracies don't count.
Is this the same BJ who’s currently putting a number of road blocks in front of Ukranian refugees trying to enter the UK?
TBH I was hoping they’d sorted that out but I’ve been disappointed in the handling of it,would have been nicer to have got that sorted whilst you could get more people out at the initial start and not when the bombs are dropping.
i think we feel we have the monopoly on bad politicians, but we really don’t, France have a bunch of them, same in Germany, USA, etc, etc, how much they look like twunts on the world stage depends on how badly they’re doing
Good point - however, the other countries do seem to try and do something about the issue whereas (at the moment), UK seems to be willing to do nothing - that may change in the local election stuff in May...but certainly the last several years have been comedy gold for all other countries looking at the UK.
It will no doubt change at some point but the longer it goes on for, the greater the damage.
UK seems to be willing to do nothing
Despite having voted 'ourselves' into this shit.
certainly the last several years have been comedy gold for all other countries looking at the UK
Very much so. Putin will love the fact that he can point to the oldest parliament in the world being undermined and belittled by Johnson's antics. "Don't mess with Russia and you'll be fine. Mess with Russia and your next election may feature the rise of a previously 'unknown' movement with a strange allure largely created on social media".
the longer it goes on for, the greater the damage
Totally. It won't take long for the notion that the UK way may not be a great model to gain traction. It probably already has.
Don't forget that the whole EU Referendum was a conscious exercise in bypassing UK parliamentary democracy. Why did it take place? Because Farage only promised to give the Tories their racists back if it was held. And held with such a stupidly simple premise. Who funded Farage? Etc.
Vlad was influential in much of this and now he's reaping his return on investment.
I should say ‘developed’ countries there. Truly tinpot kleptocracies don’t count.
You don't think we live in a kleptocracy? The man who sets tax policy has a wife who evades millions in tax. The same man refused to investigate billions of pounds of fraud after 37bn was handed to tory friends and donors during the pandemic. His party hands peerages to wealthy donors, including allies of Putin. Need I go on?
You don’t think we live in a kleptocracy?
I do. There are degrees, though. Whilst we do have a problem we are not on the same level as South Africa under Jacob Zuma, for example.
Mind you, we don't have the excuse of 'carried over' issues from a freedom struggle that bred its own unique blend of paranoia, cliques and power bases which were only kept in check by an unassailable figure like Mandela. When he popped his clogs, the moral restraint slipped a good few notches.