[Closed] Boris and the Unions

no

strikes are not like elections.

Boris is a tosser who wants to turn London into one big financial centre so that all his cronies can make lots of money out of the place. Of course he's going to attack the Unions.

I was delayed as a result of the industrial action yesterday. I din't sit there cursing the Unions, I just thought it was sad that we live in a society where people need to withdraw their labour in order to be acknowledged. Boris and the other Tories would prefer it if there were no Unions, and businesses could treat workers how the **** they liked.

Not to worry; Red Ken shall rise once more, and sweep the Bumbling Buffoon aside back into the mediocrity from whence it came.

Personally I'd expel Boris and send him back to New York. Seems like he'd be happier there anyway.

"rootes1 - Member
no

strikes are not like elections"

But a ballot to strike is. This rule would mean that anyone choosing to abstain is effectively voting 'no'.

I did notice that he adopted the tediously predictable Thatcherite approach to the unions whereas, as the City Bankers prepare to pay themselves obscene bonuses once more his statement was

"erm... I say.... excuse me chaps... Don't want to interupt you counting your money, but....erm.... If you don't mind awfully, could you possibly restrict your bonuses to a few billion each. Yes, yes... I know you've earned it. You all work frightfully hard for them, but you know how the peasants view it. They don't understand. Its the politics of envy

Typical *ing tory. They're all the *ing same

Not to worry; Red Ken shall rise once more, and sweep the Bumbling Buffoon aside back into the mediocrity from whence it came.

RMT seemed to have just as many strikes when newt man was in charge....

sooner they get rid of Bob Crow the better. RMT just needs to face facts... so few people buy tickets from a ticket office why should so many station have manned ticket offices...?

Flip side is more strikes, more people will start cycling and realise it is a better way to get around town that being stuffed in a sardine tin deep underground

It'd be great to have Ken back as there were never any Tube strikes when he was Mayor were there...... 🙄

Just what exactly were they striking about?

Anything to derail (hee hee) Bob Crow's personal crusade 🙂

i have to agree more people cycling is a good thing

mnore strikes!

bob crowe is a tosser but, if ever you do need to find someone at a an underground station its a pita when there is no one about

ie when you have a bike, oyster card not working etc

its in protest at 800 job cuts

Anyone else think it's a little hypocritical of someone who won an election with 45% turnout to suggest that 50% turnout should be required for strikes to be legal?

I guess that Red Miliband might not be shouting [b]too[/b] loudly about this issue, having won despite only getting a minority of the turnout.... 😆

I would support it if it was universal for everyone to vote in all elections/votes. Agre with Binners he is always more concerned when people act collectively but he is happy to defend the banking/financial sector and their bonus culture. Saw him on newsnight WTF is it with that hair

RMT seemed to have just as many strikes when newt man was in charge....

Did they? Hm, I din't notice. I suspect there have been more since Boris took over, but I'm open to evidence to the contrary.

so few people buy tickets from a ticket office why should so many station have manned ticket offices...?

Because if there's a problem with your Oyster card, or you can't use the self-service machines for whatever reason, it's good to have a real person to help you out.

Boris is just big gob who has surrounded himself with loads of advisors who actually come up with the ideas. Take 'Boris bikes'; a scheme initiated during Ken's watch. Boris just likes to take credit for other people's ideas, make himself look good, give himself leverage and have a good CV for future Tory Party leadership contests. He doesn't give a shit about the real needs of the vast majority of Londoners. He's just a performing seal, barking ut populist rhetoric and ideas.

Take the new Routemaster; blames Ken for the original's demise, when in fact it was an EU ruling that actually led to their withdrawal. Sposed to be an exciting new design evocative of the original Routemaster. The final design is just another generic bus.

Boris is all about showing off and looking good, not actually getting stuff done. Bit like the 'Cycle Superhighways', aka existing cycle lanes painted blue. What a con.

Boris Johnson’s meetings since 2008:
Rupert Murdoch: 1
Rebekah Wade, The Sun: 2
Lord Rothermere, Daily Mail: 1
Richard Madeley and Judy Finnigan: 1
Lily Allen: 1
Kelly Brook: 2
Tube Union leaders: 0

Rupert Murdoch: 1
Rebekah Wade, The Sun: 2
Lord Rothermere, Daily Mail: 1

No wonder he gets so much support from the right wing press...

Dirty bastard.

Deport him!

I too was quite amused by the need for 50% of all members to actually vote, and yes, it is hypocritical.

"Elfinsafety - Member

Rupert Murdoch: 1
Rebekah Wade, The Sun: 2
Lord Rothermere, Daily Mail: 1

No wonder he gets so much support from the right wing press..."

He gets £250k a year support from the Torygraph

i cant think of many examples of elections where turnout is even close to 100%

boris is just saying it to please his city chums who im sure will raise a toast to him at their next bonus fueled banquet

if indeed he hasnt met with any london union leaders since he became mayor hes been remiss

He gets £250k a year support from the Torygraph

SCUM!

Take him down to Traitor's Gate, let 3 tides wash over his wretched carcass.

Bob Crow needs crushing, just blocking progress and modernisation for the sake of the power struggle.

Elfinsafety - Member
Boris is a [s]tosser[/s] amusing politician who wants to turn London into one big financial centre so that all [s]his cronies[/s] constituents can make lots of money out of [s]the place[/s] a re-generated financial base.

Fixed, as they say, that for you.

No, you've broken it, Woppit.

I live here mate. I see what really happens. You don't.

Bye bye.

X

Breaking news: UK Government to receive £4.1bn bonus from City Bankers.

So they bloody should! If you ask me it should be treble that.

Those bankers don't need all that money. Just pay 'em £200k a year, that's plenty for anyone, use the rest of the money to sort out the UK s a whole.

We nearly got him. We'll get him one day....

http://www.mirror.co.uk?bcpid=18731164001&bctid=24043468001

Boris should be in a sit com not in a position of power
As for union bashing, we forget how cheap human life was to people in power before we had them and the benefits they fought for, without them things would go downhill fast for the average working person

and there's few who disagree with that. BUT Boris' point is about restricting ego-tripping union leaders from calling "capricious and political" strikes with too little a mandate. Hardly Union Bustin' behaviour.

800 jobs isnt [u]just[/u] about bob crowes ego, though im sure its an important factor

[Boris] doesn't give a shit about the real needs of the vast majority of Londoners

What, like getting to work?

Boris just likes to take credit for other people's ideas

True, especially the ones that Ken championed like cutting ticket office staff... oh.

I find it especially interesting that Ken Livingstone has set up his mayoral campaign office in the TSSA's building, won't disclose any details of the arrangement (presumably because he's there rent-free) as well as already being in the pockets of ASLEF and UNITE. I really hope the rest of London sees sense and tells him to go away again this time round.

LU has assured the unions unequivocally that the changes will be delivered without compulsory redundancies or loss of earnings, that all stations with a ticket office will continue to have one and that all stations will be staffed at all times.

These assurances have been rejected by the union leaderships, and they have now refused to rejoin talks.

Its not 800 jobs it's 800 positions that will become redundant over time.

Unions should protect workers' rights, not rights to work.

Stoner - you mean with more of a madate than he has? Was there a 50% turnout in his election?

Its pure hypocrisy

What, like getting to work?

Yes it's a hassle, but then maybe it makes people realise just how important transport staff are. They help keep London moving.

True, especially the ones that Ken championed like cutting ticket office staff... oh.

I'd like to see some info please. There were proposals to close 40 ticket offices across the network. Proposals that were never implemented.

Boris wants to take away workers' right to strike. Far, far worse.

That was the plan prior to Ken losing the mayoral election.

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/static/corporate/media/newscentre/archive/5267.html

Yes it's a hassle, but then maybe it makes people realise just how important transport staff are. They help keep London moving.

purrleeas. At least read about which positions are being phased out and redeployed before coming out with that tosh.

TJ - as the first reply to the OP said correctly strike ballots are not the same as elections. The strike action by a few effects many that do not have a say. I think there should be an elective abstention though that is not counted in votes against.

Yeah right

elections affect those without a vote

Morally there is no difference. Boris is elected by a less than 50% turnout. He then has a mandate do do what he want.

unions elect officers then hold referendum on action. Does Boris hold a referendum before major policies that have effects far beyond his electorate?

Stoner, I have read about the 800 jobs being cut, and 90% of ticket offices being shut more often. I have. So, I'm not coming out with 'tosh'. The Underground is already understaffed. What it doesn't need, is further job cuts. Boris is just looking to save money at the expense of people's jobs. Where is he providing new jobs for them then? His tearing up of plans to build an east river crossing means that tens of thousands of jobs now won't be created, as well as the redevelopment of wasted land, the building of thousands of homes that could help ease the housing shortage, etc. As well as scrapping the Congestion Charge Zone western extension because his Kensington-dwelling Tory chums started crying about it. In spite of the fact that the CG works.

Doesn't surprise me that an accountant wants to see unions crushed...

Or that an accountant is a fan of Boris. 🙄

and just how does~:

and 90% of ticket offices being shut more often

just how important transport staff are. They help keep London moving.

It's ticket offices, not train drivers we're talking about.

Breaking news: UK Government to receive £4.1bn bonus from City Bankers.

Is that because the Labour government handled the situation so well?

Because if there's a problem with your Oyster card, or you can't use the self-service machines for whatever reason, it's good to have a real person to help you out.

well having had a oyster for a number of years I have never had to speak to anyone about it nor not found a machine to top it up... and you can top up in shops as well as stations.

anyone if any RMT member loses his job, perhaps Bob Crow should remove his electric opening house gates and get a person to open his gates for him and thus create a job....

It's ticket offices, not train drivers we're talking about.

They're all part of the same system. And belong to the same unions. So I'd imagine drivers may have voted in favour of their ticket office colleagues. The all work together to provide a transport [i]system[/i].

I wouldn't expect you to understand solidarity and support for fellow workers though.

so you say unions should strike to protect rights to jobs now then? You admit then your argument isnt that the effective functioning of the transport system is being threatened?

The job cuts aren't really about increasing efficiency, they're about saving money. The Unions' argument is that this will lead to decreased efficiency, less safety for staff and passengers, and a poorer quality service. I happen to agree with them.

Apart from the strikes, some stations have closed due to lack of staff. This is happening with increased frequency. The Underground isn't improving under Boris, it's going backwards. He's not interested in the rights and opinions of transport staff, he's interested only in appeasing his City cronies and paymasters.

Not that he's worried. 4 years as Mayor, loads of support from the City, good chance of Tory Party leadership.

Like he ever took the job for any other reason.

Boris wants to take away workers' right to strike.

Not so. He just wants a strike to be decided on a majority vote from union members, rather than the top-down diktat of the likes of Bob Crowe and his fellow-travellers.

Oh sorry, I forgot. You dismissed me, didn't you...

Yes I did. Off you go now. Bye bye.

If you think Bob crow is doing any of this for reasons of safety or quality of service you are utterly deluded.

Bob Crow calls strikes to protect unionised jobs and hence the subscriptions that go towards paying his union salary and funding his powerbase. He's about as philanthopic as a parasitic gastric flatworm.

EDIT: BTW with reference to your accusatinos that "boris is doing this to cosy up to his city pals" - through what possible mechanism do you think there can Boris deliver any benefit to bankers by cutting the TfL budget? TfL is funded by LB council taxes and centralised govenment grants. Square Mile workers and companies dont pay for it. The simple fact is that TfL income is falling and expenditure must fall too.

He just wants a strike to be decided on a majority vote from union members, rather than the top-down diktat of the likes of Bob Crowe and his fellow-travellers.

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't that what happens now? A ballot is called and the [i]members[/i] vote on strike action which can only be called if more than 50% of the votes cast are in favour of the action.

As others have said wanting a majority of the membership rather than a majority of the votes cast is hypocritical beyond belief.

I misread the title of this thread as "Boris and the Unicorns". The reality was disappointing.

On the plus side, I think it might have inspired a new children's book...

Elfinsafety - Member
Yes I did. Off you go now. Bye bye.

So, I'll assume that a response to my point is a bit too difficult for you.

Mrs Toast - Member
I misread the title of this thread as "Boris and the Unicorns". The reality was disappointing.

On the plus side, I think it might have inspired a new children's book...

... or a religion...

Mr Woppit - Member
So, I'll assume that a response to my point is a bit too difficult for you.

Gonefishin answered you btw.

[img] [/img]

So, I'll assume that a response to my point is a bit too difficult for you.

No, it's 'cos you won't come for a pint with me. 😥

Mr Woppit - Member

Boris wants to take away workers' right to strike.

Not so. He just wants a strike to be decided on a majority vote from union members, rather than the top-down diktat of the likes of Bob Crowe and his fellow-travellers.

Nop he doesn't - cos that what happens now. he wants to make it so a simple majority of those who cast a vote is not good enough but wants to make the vote not to count if turnout was less than 50%

On that basis there would be no elected Boris nor numerous Westminster constituencies

Its pure hypocrisy

TfL income is falling and expenditure must fall too.

tfls income is falling since borris cut the western extension charge - £55million according to tfl,
because borris is so concerned about the poor people of kensington & chelsea THE RICHEST BOROUGH IN THE COUNTRY

http://www.****/news/article-477325/League-Wealth-Tables.html

borris really shouldnt talk about hypocrisy

ah so we come to the crux of it kimbers - tax more people to keep Bob Crow's chums in non-jobs! 😉

Finally some truth to the matter....

If you think Bob crow is doing any of this for reasons of safety or quality of service you are utterly deluded.

The Unions' claim is that safety and quality of service will be affected. Which they undoubtedly will if the job cuts are made.

Bob Crow calls strikes to protect unionised jobs and hence the subscriptions that go towards paying his union salary and funding his powerbase. He's about as philanthopic as a parasitic gastric flatworm.

That's just your opinion of him. I'm sure if his Union's members thought he wasn't acting in their best interests, they'd remove him from his position as leader.

EDIT: BTW with reference to your accusatinos that "boris is doing this to cosy up to his city pals" - through what possible mechanism do you think there can Boris deliver any benefit to bankers by cutting the TfL budget?

Boris' City chums tell Boris to sort out the Unions and stop the strikes so their workers can get to work. Because transport strikes lose them money. Come on Stoner; you're an accountant, you know how it works! 😉

As for cutting the TFL budget; if he's seen to be 'saving' money, then he'll become more popular with an electorate who are more concerned with how things affect their own finances rather than having consideration for other people's jobs.

A general election offered to a population of free agents is not the same thing as a vote required from fee-paying members of an industrial organisation.

nope i only advocate taxing those richer than me 😀

Because transport strikes lose [s]them[/s] everybody money.

A general election offered to a population of free agents is not the same thing as a vote required from fee-paying members of an industrial organisation.

You're absolutely right. For those of us who don't live in London (that will be the majority of the population by the way) general elections are far far more important than whether or not commuters in London have a bit of a hard time getting around.

I think we should just heavily tax chippy mockneys that look like Jeff Goldblum.

Fred:

'Despite their claims that this dispute is about safety, the union leaderships have not even tried to make the case or present any evidence to us to support that argument.

'Our plans have no impact on safety standards and we have also given a cast-iron guarantee that these plans involve no compulsory redundancies or loss of earnings.

Because transport strikes lose [s]them[/s] everybody money

Transport strikes don't affect me, and many people I know actually. Many of us can use our bicycles to get to work, you see.

So, that's not [i]everybody[/i], then. We don't all live in Surrey and have to get train in you know. Some of us live within walking/cycling distance of work. A strange and novel concept, I know...

If a transport strike means [i]you[/i] can't get into London, Woppit, then I'm all for them! 😉

I think we should just heavily tax chippy mockneys that look like Jeff Goldblum.

Do I cast assumptions on your background and mock your appearance? No, I don't do I?

Losing the argument so need to resort to personal insults? How very mature Stoner. Have you no thought for my fragile ego? 😥

You too are welcome to come for a pint with me, find out what I'm really like. I don't need to hide behind my persona on here you see.

I do look a bit like Jeff Goldblum though. Can't dispute that one really.

Transport strikes affect everybody. It's not JUST about whether or not we can all get into, and away from, work on any given day.

I note that only two of the unions involved in transporting people around the capital have assumed that a minority vote of their membership entitles them to strike on behalf of retaining what can nly be described as non-jobs.

What about the rest of the brotherhood?

fred?
[img] [/img]

and you guys say they are non-jobs because??

there's a long list of things Id rather do than drink Sam Smiths with an armchair socialist.

And...

Elfinsafety - Member

Do I cast assumptions on your background and mock your appearance? No, I don't do I?

Following...

Elfinsafety - Member

If a transport strike means you can't get into London, Woppit, then I'm all for them!

Your loss, Stoner, your loss.

I don't only drink in Sam Smith's pubs. But then, you won't find that out if you won't come for a pint with me, will you?

Won't anyone come for a pint with me?

😥

Some LU ticket offices now regularly sell fewer than 10 tickets an hour. The quietest ticket offices include North Ealing, which sells less than six tickets per hour, and Latimer Road and Moor Park, which sell only around seven tickets per hour

I think that's one description of a non-job right there, unless the employess are willing to work on a commission basis perhaps?

Bob Crow calls strikes to protect unionised jobs and hence the subscriptions that go towards paying his union salary and funding his powerbase. He's about as philanthopic as a parasitic gastric flatworm.

there's a long list of things Id rather do than drink Sam Smiths with an armchair socialist.

Why not? IME, free-marketeers spout just as many mystical platitudes as the hard left.

Besides, I have a dream... that one day there will be a four man 24 enduro team consisting of GGus, Stoner, PaddedFred & CFH. 8)

and you can stuff a cork in it an'all comrade. 🙂
Anyway, Id call the likes of Fred not so much the "hard left" as the "soft, pudgy, hand-ringing apologist, ill-conceived and intellectually limited underbelly of the left". Rolls off the tongue better.

Started reading Thoreau the other day - now there's sanctimonious w***er if every I read one! 😉

Besides, I have a dream... that one day there will be a four man 24 enduro team consisting of GGus, Stoner, PaddedFred & CFH.

(Sobs at the sheer incomparable beauty of it all...)

Elfinsafety - Member

Won't anyone come for a pint with me?

Get yer scrawny ass up north and I'll buy you a pint

You'll like that Fred. 60 shilling tastes almost as bad as sam smiths.

now there's sanctimonious w***er if every I read one!

LOL. In ten years, I bet you write a similar volume on the various contentments of rural barn life - [i]Malvern[/i] by Stoner. 😉

Besides, "Distrust any enterprise that requires new clothes" is the single greatest piece of advice ever known. The bloke was a model of financial prudence.

It's amusing to see how media changed public opinion about unions. If you just compare EU workers rights to UK, you clearly would see there is so much of work to be done by UK unions or such*. I see that Tories pushing herds of workers towards US model.
It doesn't matter what sector you work in but would you like to be controlled or kicked out of job US style? I don't think many of people would like to talk about modern slavery but if you look around, it is happening allready.
Bob Crow is the one who isn't affraid to stand up for argument, but he is marred by media and the likes with whatever publicity -Fine society wants. Therefore, in my eyes it's just another fight for power Rich vs Poor.
I live in London and I do work for TFL, therefore few issues are known to me how TFL operates. I agree their funds have to be cut due to less business though. There are methods I don't agree with how TFL throws money away, but thats another -Beer story.
More strikes, IMO would be better to push crowds on the bikes ... and thats a bloody inexpensive and brilliant idea for Londoners.

Many promises which had been made by Borris, have been diverted other ways allready. Not saying Ken was perfect, but the man changed TFL over the years into better transport organisation.

To my knowledge Borris has turned down Venezuella oil deal which Ken prepared for TFL Buses (which would work out £0.08pence per litre / I stand to be corrected) which would help with freezing annual fares* on grounds of inhumane and corrupt government of Venezuella. Now we have much more expensive deal with Quatar, but the details of the deal remain secret. All I know, there are plans to increase annual fares yet again due to -Economic storms* and inability to save money by TFL in one way or the other.

I unfortunately don't believe all those beautifully orcestrated stories by media, and it's amusing to hear other people spiting and arguing. It's kind of you have to see the real basics first of the argument, then only can fine tune lil twitches.

But changing law about unions vote on strikes is very dangerous starting steps towards workers rights and not only TFL. Do look around what you shout out loud.

when I start producing treatise on the "happy lot of a man who has beans but no shoes, honour but no wealth and an Inbred but no Rebas" then put me up against the wall with a last cigggie and tell my fans Marx is dead.

Don't know about that but Innis and Gunn is ****ing lovely.

I like Sam Smith's Wheaty beer and their pure brewed lager. Some of their other ales are nice too.

I'm not too bothered what Stoner thinks of their beers though, as everyone is different, innit?

Stoner likes to assume he is superior to someone like myself; here I am, a Council Estate scrotey little scumbayg, obviously lacking in any vestige of sophistication and intellect, unlike himself. Of course he should feel superior, after all he has the right to think himself superior, doesn't he? I mean, City accountants who live in Malvern are superior to scrotey East End scumbaygs, aren't they?

(Runs off to wallow in his own ignorance and social despair...)