I don’t even know who she is (or in fact care)
You’re missing out. As i said previously, she is awesome. ❤️
I’d argue that what the world needs now is lots of “everything positivity”
Sex positivity
Sexuality positivity
Gender positivity
Gender expression positivity
Body positivity
Every other type of physicality positivity
And so on
When someone comes in with (well meaning) yeah but excess weight is correlated with reduced life expectancy it allows all the other intolerant people to come in with yeah but genes, yeah but lifestyle, yeah but the children.
Don’t give them the chance
Everything positivity
then what are we going to do?
Thank god we still have vegans, hey?
And Gingers! (Disclaimer my daughter’s a ginger)
I blame it on her juice!
Promote smoking to reduce obesity, piece of cake.
Thank god we still have vegans, hey?
And Gingers!
Don't forget Brexiters.
Oh and...
Lizzo is awesome. I once got an erection watching one of her videos! Is that normal?
Goes off to watch her YouTube vids.
...... I guess everyone has their kink, but not my kind of thing. Never even heard of her before this thread.
What I don't understand is how someone gets that fat. It's not like it happens overnight.
I know a few fat people and none of them are particularly happy about it. One good mate shed the fat by making a conscience effort to move more and eat less. He's a lot happier now and I've masses of respect for him.
To those saying being fat isn't anyone elses problem...
My mum was fat, as are most of her sisters. Type 2 diabetes, statins, ****ed knees (some genuinely believe that diabetes runs in the family and has nothing to do with being fat, lazy and eating too much). Leads to a great quality of life for their partners.
In some cases the kids are following as they almost see it as normal.
Also shit loads more work for the NHS dealing with all the fat people... Something skinny people's taxes pay for.
There is very little to be positive about when you can run, walk up a flight of stairs or fit into a cinema seat.
If I were to catch lung cancer through smoking it'd be my fault.
Being fat rarely gets laid at the feet of the person who is doing the eating and sitting around, but is seen as a societal issue.
It's a societal issue because obesity does have a significant impact. I'd suggest that modern society does in fact lay it at the feet of fat people every minute of every day. Completely the opposite of drink/drug abuse, also a societal issue. IMO body positivity is a good message as it can help people build self confidence, allowing them to make different choices.
speccyguy
I’d argue that what the world needs now is lots of “everything positivity”
Good post that.
I might try “forum positivity” ... maybe for a little while.
...everyone has their kink
Indeed. Women are a ‘kink’ to some, eh. Always been the normal thing for me though.
What I don’t understand is how someone gets that fat. It’s not like it happens overnight.
Any number of reasons. Depression; injury meaning someone can't exercise; side-effects of other illnesses or medications (PCOS for example is notorious for weight gain); comfort eating (one of my exes thought she was fat - she wasn't - she'd get all miserable about it and then would cheer herself up by eating a half-kilo slab of Dairy Milk); genetics; quitting smoking and subconsciously replacing cigarettes with Mars bars; mental disorders where people want to be as huge as possible; and, yes, simply being a lazy greedy bastard. And it's probably precisely because it "doesn't happen overnight" that there's no one clearly defined point where someone goes from "a few excess pounds" to being a right fat knacker.
The bugger of it is though, the bigger you are the harder it becomes to reverse it. Changing your diet requires a lifestyle change which few people are prepared to genuinely commit to, hence the popularity of fad diets and "quick fix" solutions which rarely work. Also, it's harder to exercise, it's all well and good going "move more" but if you're struggling to get out of the chair you're not going to be doing the London Marathon next week.
And then we're back to how shaming doesn't help. When overweight people try and do something about it, society snaps straight back at them. Say they get themselves off to the swimming pool - one of the few exercises that isn't going to destroy their knees - how long do you reckon it'll take someone to make a "witty" comment about beached whales?
"What I don’t understand is how someone gets that fat. It’s not like it happens overnight."
"Any number of reasons. Depression; injury meaning someone can’t exercise; side-effects of other illnesses or medications (PCOS for example is notorious for weight gain)"
Thank you for this. See Lipoedema. This has a hell of a lot of stigma attached and lots of assumptions. Yes there are those that are also carrying extra 'normal' weight but there are some of us that are not...
Yes, I'm taking this opportunity to raise awareness of the illness, yes it's real and yes, I am very self conscious as are many
Edit: sorry I can't quote for some reason - likely user ineptitude 😁
It seems to me that there is a certain amount of over compensation going on. Having Kate Moss at her skinniest as a role model was rightly derided as a bad thing. Instead of dialing in the 'sweet spot' of allure to something truly healthy and sustainable the pendulum has rather swung too far and it's all good is the trope de jour.
That being said most of that article makes her views a bit unclear. "No, being fat is normal. I think now, I owe it to the people who started this to not just stop here. We have to make people uncomfortable again, so that we can continue to change. Change is always uncomfortable, right?" Sadly being fat is now normal in the west - she is right. She's miffed that other people not as fat as her want to be labelled as fat too? If being fat is part of your professional identity can you have a personal desire to do something about it?
I've got a few friends who have got a little skinnier recently - they look thin for 50 year old. Still very toned for their age, just a minimal but healthy body fat level. They look odd to me. it's very much like my eyes have become so conditioned to the average western raised BMI 'look' that someone bucking the trend appears out of kilter.
Sadly being fat is now normal in the west
At the risk of repeating myself,
Are you suggesting instead that we should be labelling overweight people as abnormal? Do you think that will help them?
It's possible to destigmatise something without the only alternative being to promote it as a desirable ideal.
Are you suggesting instead that we should be labelling overweight people as abnormal? Do you think that will help them?
Depends what you mean as normal/abnormal. If you are fat and walked into the street and looked left and right you would see a dozen people who would confirm you are perfectly normal. It is now normal to be fat.
But.....’unhealthy’ or ‘unnecessarily unhealthy’ - yes, absolutely. That was me 18 months ago. Ok, not morbid but definitely clinically obese. Looking about it is very easy to see confirmation that you are normal. So a reminder that you are unhealthy at a raised weight has never been as necessary. And....without turning this into another Covid debate - there has probably never been a time in history when being pushed into some weight loss has such a positive effect on your life chances.
They look odd to me. it’s very much like my eyes have become so conditioned to the average western raised BMI ‘look’ that someone bucking the trend appears out of kilter.
That's nothing to do with "normality," what you're describing there is prejudice. Compare and contrast: "it’s very much like my eyes have become so conditioned to the average brown ‘look’ that someone white appears out of kilter."
And yeah, I know that's a bit of a cheeky analogy. But as I said earlier you need to be careful when you're throwing around words like "normal," it's an inherently loaded stance. "You, you're not 'normal,' you're 'other,' can't you see there's something wrong with you?"
Depends what you mean as normal/abnormal.
Doesn't matter what I mean, I'm not the one making the argument. What do you mean?
If you're saying "not normal" when you mean "unhealthy," say "unhealthy" instead. It's clearer and less passive-aggressive.
What do you mean?
My view and your view is irrelevant. It is factually accurate to say being fat is normal. Millions and millions of people are in the UK alone.
She’s miffed that other people not as fat as her want to be labelled as fat too?
No, think she's upset because it was supposed to be an inclusive idea, that people of all shapes could be represented in a positive light. So that people might look around them and not feel alienated from everyone else because of their looks. And that message has been watered down.
It is factually accurate to say being fat is normal.
Yes, it is. As is being skinny. Or as someone else pointed out previously, ginger. And?
Do you think this is a new phenomenon? "Bringing booty back" may be a fashion backlash but it's no less unhealthy than girls starving themselves to death because they aren't superwaifs. These things ebb and flow, go look at some Rubens art. What's needed is for people to be encouraged to accept that, on the whole, they're OK how they are and for those on the more at-risk ends of the scale that aren't OK we can offer some encouragement.
think she’s upset because it was supposed to be an inclusive idea, that people of all shapes could be represented in a positive light.
She's saying exactly the opposite. She's complaining about people including themselves who to her mind don't qualify.
Body positivity calls for the acceptance of all shapes and sizes.
"It's commercialised," the Truth Hurts star said. "Now, you look at the hashtag 'body positive' and you see smaller-framed girls, curvier girls."
She went on: "Lotta white girls. And I feel no ways about that, because inclusivity is what my message is always about.
From the article Cougar, she seems ok about others claiming Body positivity, just that it doesnt include the wider range of shapes that it should.
One of us is misunderstanding that quote. Reads to me like she's complaining about "smaller-framed girls" wanting to be included in the Body Positive message.
Not really seeing what skin colour has to do with being body positive either TBH, seems a bit "I'm not racist but..."
Somoenes size/weight, and the healthiness thereof, is between them and their doctor.
This can also be true and it still not be good or considered or normal to be obese.
If you had lung cancer through smoking it would be between you and your doctor. Don't tell me we should be body positive about your black lungs.
Overeating to the point of morbid obesity is an active abuse of one's body in the same way.
I'm not commenting but then I'm certainly not celebrating someone being happy and body positive when they are causing themselves harm.
My view and your view is irrelevant. It is factually accurate to say being fat is normal.
I kind see what you’re trying to say but it’s not coming across well, nice to know I’m abnormal for being skinny.
So this topic is a bit like being handed a land mine.... eek...
I guess, from a health care professional POV, one of the issues I face is getting people to accept change kinda is required.
Accepting change needs to be made is one of the first steps TOWARDS making change. And of course, if someone is overweight, really they SHOULD (if they can) make change towards a healthier weight.
I 'do get' what's being said about "being overweight is the new norm", and this does make the notion of the NEED to change difficult to get across. Because, if "everyone is big, I'm not an odd one out, hence don't need to change" is an attitude that some do adopt.
And again, I reiterate that the 'need to changed' is based on the notion that being overweight isn't healthy and does carry additional risks and complications.
Just like smoking too much does, or drinking too much.
Ultimately, the paths that lead to obesity are complicated and very difficult to unpick... and OF COURSE calling someone a "big fat fatty" is likely to be met with a significantly different attitude than suggesting "their weight is above a healthy range" when trying to talk about ways to become more healthy...
I guess I'm digressing, and possibly the OPs topic is more about "do we just accept people for who and how they are, regardless on how unhealthy that actually may well be".
Well; Yes.. we should of course accept them for them. But perhaps we shouldn't ignore the health complications associated as well...
DrP
BMI shouldn't be used on individuals, only on populations. People are different builds and distribute fat in different ways. An unhealthy BMI for one person can be absolutely fine for another - despite the oversimplified approach taken in western (white!) medicine.
I couldn't give a **** either way about somebody's weight so long as I'm not pissing away my taxes on the inevitable detrimental effects of their weight, both to them personally and to society on a wider scale.
I lived in East Asia for a bit. It used to appall me when I did a home run. I remember on one occasion, boarding a plane and being placed within a bunch of teenagers from the NE heading out to China on an exchange trip. Really nice kids, pleasant and polite to interact with, clearly cared about their appearance in that they were clean, well dressed, nice haircuts, ALL of 'em with braces on their teeth....and every one overweight: great big muffin tops, double chins, fat necks, bingo wings. They just didn't see it, it was normalised for them.
so long as I’m not pissing away my taxes on the inevitable detrimental effects of their weight, both to them personally and to society on a wider scale.
Just so we’re clear what other conditions, habits or interests does this cover?
ALL of ’em with braces on their teeth….and every one overweight: great big muffin tops, double chins, fat necks, bingo wings. They just didn’t see it, it was normalised for them.
That makes no sense.
BMI shouldn’t be used on individuals, only on populations. People are different builds and distribute fat in different ways. An unhealthy BMI for one person can be absolutely fine for another – despite the oversimplified approach taken in western (white!) medicine.
This is true but it's overstated IMO. Most people who fall outside of (choose a number of SDs in) the bell curve are there because they're an unhealthy weight on an individual level, NOT because they're a secret powerlifter / Grand Tour winning skinny runt.
Besides, using the 'population' argument is like saying that smoking isn't bad for you unless you're one of the unlucky ones who develop cancer / COPD. There are plenty of smokers who never develop complications and live to a ripe old age. But we don't promote smoking because we're aware of the effects on populations.
I guess I’m digressing, and possibly the OPs topic is more about “do we just accept people for who and how they are, regardless on how unhealthy that actually may well be”.
Well; Yes.. we should of course accept them for them. But perhaps we shouldn’t ignore the health complications associated as well
Bang on.
Thank god we still have vegans, hey?
and Gingers, don't forget the Gingers.
It's quite clear what I'm saying, Drac, are you being deliberately obtuse to gather STW brownie points? And it makes complete sense - we've normalised being obese in the West, people who otherwise care about their appearance don't see it (and the associated health issues). Back to the OP...
I couldn’t give a * either way about somebody’s weight so long as I’m not pissing away my taxes on the inevitable detrimental effects of their weight, both to them personally and to society on a wider scale.
"I couldn’t give a * either way about somebody riding a mountain bike so long as I’m not pissing away my taxes on the inevitable detrimental effects from their crashes..."
This is how a functioning society works, individuals don't get to dictate that their taxation only goes towards services that they, personally, require. You might as well argue against funding the fire service because you've never had a fire.
Bang on.
Agreed. Accept people for who they are, allow them to feel good about who they are, gives you more chance of helping them get to be better?
I’m not commenting but then I’m certainly not celebrating someone being happy and body positive when they are causing themselves harm.
See, I don't get this attitude at all! Someone who is fat shouldn't be happy, shouldn't feel positive about who they are? Seems very wrong to me. Remarkably similar to what used to happen in education, where students with dyslexia were told they were idiots, would never amount to anything and packed off to remedial school with no hope of improvement.
Not comparable. You may or may not crash a mountain bike, and in any case a brief stay in an orthopaedic ward can't be compared to a lifetime of chronic ill health resulting from poor lifestyle choices.
You may or may not crash a mountain bike
Incorrect. There are only two types of mountain biker. Those who have just crashed, and those who are going to crash. And to quote my mate, "Rich, **** knows how, but you manage to be both!"
Faulty logic. Even if you do crash and sustain an injury that requires treatment, the long-term health benefits from being active outweigh the overwhelmingly negative outcome associated with eating too much and doing too little exercise.
Tying yourself in knots trying to equate dyslexia and house fires (FFS) with eating too much shit food and not being active - hey, very inclusive, but that really does make no sense.
lifestyle choices
Classy 👌🏼
I'm not trying to argue with you, just being facetious.
I couldn’t give a **** either way about somebody’s weight so long as I’m not pissing away my taxes on the inevitable detrimental effects of their weight..
I lived in East Asia for a bit. It used to appall me...
Well, I don't think you pay taxes to support American singers or East Asian folk, so keep not giving a whatever it was.
Where does this leave gentlemen who ...admire... the curvaceous ladies?
Who, perhaps have a penchant for the fuller figure?
It's a minefield I tell you.
Time was, an offer of chips and gravy after the nightclubs had shut was pretty much a guarantee of a snog in the doorway of C&A while waiting for the last bus...
It’s quite clear what I’m saying, Drac, are you being deliberately obtuse to gather STW brownie points?
No, you claiming it was normalised for them. You’ve absolutely no idea how they felt, what they considered normal other than your own prejudice.
Nothing to do with prejudice. Everything to do with the ill health they'll be suffering for a huge portion of their lives as a result of the fat they consider to be 'normal.' The same fat that's imposing a massive, ongoing burden on the NHS I'm sure you were all out clapping for on Thursdays through the spring and summer. That same fat that significantly worsens your prognosis if you contract Covid19.
I think somebody’s had a case of coyote morning with a chubbo in their past.
