What’s your stance on learning how to behave around humans?
I haven't really got a stance on humans who jump at me when riding my bike and try to bite me. I guess I would fight back as best I could. What is your point?
Easy to explain why it happened. You dont know how to behave around dogs because you are scared of them, and unable to change your behaviour
curious, how does one change their behaviour when you are cycling along and you don’t know there is a dog there? You shouldn’t have to change your behaviour. If the dog is known by its owner to behave in a certain way then they should act accordingly. For example my marly who is a large gsd scares people. I keep him on the lead at all times outside and don’t let him go up to people even though he is friendly and wouldn’t do anything more than get excited.
Kerley - indeed. I also started this as I knew it should attract some good humour in the light of previous debates and I wasn't disappointed so lets keep it light chaps or let it die
I disagree with the idea that we should all “learn” how to behave round dogs
Let's go all in then 😉
I disagree with you about disagreeing with the idea that we should all “learn” how to behave round dogs.
I mean, I agree that in a perfect world you shouldn't have to, but the world's not perfect and hence taking measures to reduce the likelihood is more sensible than being technically right but with a dog clamped round your leg.
Same as anyone should be able to walk down any street at any time of day or night, but you can't and hence it's sensible to learn how to avoid putting yourself at that risk.
(look, it's snowing outside, I'm injured, I need to argue for at least another 4 hours before the rugby comes on. Someone had better start the 'victim blaming' branch soon 😉 )
NOpe - pick another topic to argue over. I preferred the humour on this thread. 😉
lets get tore into the rugby thread instead.
is where a dog runs up to you
Thing is jonv, dogs owners know their dogs right? and if they know there's a chance (however remote) that their dog will bite, then there's a 100% fail safe method of preventing it. Put it on a lead. Works every single time. 🙂 Rather than the old trope of "You just need to know how to act around dogs" that gets trotted out, it should be up to dog owners to prevent it, rather than non-dog owners to mitigate for it, no?
Interestingly, (or not, depends on your POV, I guess) where my GF lives in south Manchester we can go for a walk around the river and it's teeming with dogs, 99% of which will ignore you completely, and the runners and cyclists and kids and everything else. Come out to mine (middle of the countryside) and repeat the exercise, and sure as eggs is eggs some dog (or more correctly the owner who's not trained it properly) will be a pain. I reckon townie dogs are more socialised to the world around them.
BTW, I'm happy with dogs, like them, owned them, know how to "deal" with them. 🙂
I disagree with the idea that we should all “learn” how to behave round dogs
Where do you stand on learning to cross a busy road?
You're not reading what I am writing though. I agree absolutely, people shouldn't NEED to know how to act around dogs because people should control their dogs and if they can't, keep them on leads. No dispute.
BUT THEY DON'T
and therefore I maintain it is sensible to know how to react to try to reduce the chances of an inquisitive dog becoming an aggravated and bitey one.
TJ maintains it's pointless because in some cases it makes no difference.
Just like my analogy. You SHOULD be free to walk up any road at any time of the day in safety, but you can't. And it's no consolation after getting mugged to complain that it shouldn't happen, you learn to avoid certain places at night, and you don't have your valuables on show and you carry a rape alarm or whatever.
It's perfectly possible to agree with you completely, but also take measures because what you describe simply isn't the real world.
Thats not my point Jonv - my point is I don't want to have no need to etc. Please don't misrepresent me
So my tactic is simply - ignore the dog unless it runs at me. If it runs at me it gets kicked hard until it runs off. I don't care if your dog is only being friendly - I don't want it near me. this is the bit you don't get. I DON'T WANT YOUR DOG RUNNING OR JUMPING AT ME FRIENDLY OR NOT If the owners won't control the dog I will by teaching it a painful lesson. Much easier and simpler. Hopefully the dog learns that chasing cyclists hurts not is good fun. I have only done this twice and both times it worked well.
In your mugging analogy you want us to learn all about muggers and make friends with them - wheras I want to kick and run
You really did want that argument didn't you 😉
It was a much better thread on the funny first page
and therefore I maintain it is sensible to know how to react to try to reduce the chances of an inquisitive dog becoming an aggravated and bitey one.
I agree completely with you on this, we live in a world of randomly behaved dogs, and a massively important "life lesson" for everyone, is how to deal with a dog, but I also understand where TJ is coming from, there are dogs that aren't socialised, their owners can't or won't train them, and they have no place being off a lead, those dogs exist, are a PITTA for everyone and that one often has no or very little time to deal with them properly before they're nipping at your heels as you cycle past.
It's part of life though, and I'm not a "ban dogs" sort by any means, and they're thankfully few and far between, 99.9% of owners and their dogs are cool.
look, it’s snowing outside, I’m injured, I need to argue for at least another 4 hours before the rugby comes on.
Scotlamd to lose due to an angry miniture daschund running onto the pitch and savaging them whilst they all scream at the absent owner to control the dog..Parisse to drop goal the daschund for the win
Much better AA
Unfortunatly I cannot write anything as funny about Englands trundlemuppetts 🙂
In your mugging analogy you want us to learn all about muggers and make friends with them – wheras I want to kick and run
No it isn't - as well you know but you're just being argumentative now. The analogy is that in a perfect world you don't NEED a mitigating strategy, but the world is imperfect.
The disagreement is that I believe your strategy of kicking a dog that approaches is a/ disproportionate when most dogs are just inquisitive; and b/ risks turning a dog that is inquisitive into an aggravated and dangerous one.
You say you've done it twice and it's turned out well both times; I say that expert advice recommends my tactic. We won't see eye to eye, so let's end it there.
You can be as stubborn as an Australian with an idea and no decent flankers sometimes 😉
JOn - this is the bit you don't get I DONT WANT YOUR DOG RUNNING OR JUMPING UP AT ME Therefore your advice is simply wrong as it will not stop this.
I DONT WANT YOUR DOG RUNNING OR JUMPING UP AT ME
You always revert to this and as far as I'm aware no one from here has a dog thats run at you. I dont understand why you feel the need to personally attack people on her when they offer you some advice after an incident with some random idiots dog.
I DONT WANT YOUR DOG RUNNING OR JUMPING UP AT ME
I get it perfectly and NOR DO I!
And in an ideal world, they wouldn't, they'd be controlled or on a lead.
But it's not an ideal world therefore it's sensible to have a strategy for when they do, rather than simply going 'WAH!!!! THIS SHOULDN'T BE HAPPENING!'
(a better strategy than kick it in the face)
Hmmm. I've tended to TJ's view that I shouldn't have to learn to behave around dogs, but I see what Jon is saying.
I don't think I should have to learn to ride my bike on the road in a way that protects me from bad drivers, but since I can't control the bad drivers I do believe it's in my own interests to protect myself.
exactly, GB. I don't excuse bad driving simply by the action of taking steps to mitigate the effects.
But it’s not an ideal world therefore it’s sensible to have a strategy for when they do, rather than simply going ‘WAH!!!! THIS SHOULDN’T BE HAPPENING!’
What strategy do you have?
If you are riding along and a dogs jumps at you and bites you what should you have done to have stopped that happening?
As a dog and all animal lover,ive been bitten by various dogs, theyre usually defending their space or their master/food source etc, its just life, hopefully the same dogs will not attack frail or vulnerable persons or kids.
As for horses i have a fear of them and they seem to recognise my fear and start getting shirty when they see me, i always stop and wave them past when on the bike, a horse wiill do a lot more damage to a bike than a doggy will, oh and ive been bitten by a horse, it hurt.
I do have a strategy - boot it until it stops jumping up. It works.
If you are riding along and a dogs jumps at you and bites you what should you have done to have stopped that happening?
If I was riding along and a dog appeared out of nowhere and bites me, not a lot. Imperfect I know but you can't control all situations. Shouldn't happen, but can. And if it did I wouldn't be as calm about it as TJ was, I'd definitely be looking to report and let authorities take action as necessary. I dislike badly behaved dogs and irresponsible owners.
If I'm riding along and become aware of a dog nearby, first off I'll slow down / pay attention to it as necessary, and if the dog looks like it's coming over, I'll stop and if needed dismount. Depending on the dog's demeanour, I might say hello to it but I do realise that gives the dog reward for behaviour you don't want, so usually I'll just ignore it, and if necessary turn away, fold arms and say 'OFF' if it tries to jump up. I won't try and push it away, or kick it, flappy hands and feet can look like inviting things to grab.
I certainly won't try to outrun it on the bike as that just creates a fabulous chase game.
Again; I fully understand the position that you shouldn't need to stop your ride because of the possibility of being chased or bitten, but the reality is you might need to and while it's a PITA, it's better than being bitten when you could possibly have done something that might have helped to prevent it.
Dog owner here
Dogs pooing behind a Bush in the countryside...big deal. I'm not even sure a friendly dog running up to you is really an issue, although I accept some folks don't like dogs and I don't let mine do that.
A dog actually biting you though ...cant be defended I'm afraid. I would not want it to destroyed but a dog that ever bites anyone should be kept on a leash and made to wear a muzzle. No ifs or buts
Sounds like the owner was suitably shocked/embarrassed to take suitable action to prevent a reoccurrence.
the other jon v - this was much funnier on the first page - as to this "If I’m riding along and become aware of a dog nearby, first off I’ll slow down / pay attention to it as necessary, and if the dog looks like it’s coming over, I’ll stop and if needed dismount."
I can pass a hundred dogs on a ride - I use shared paths to get out to the hills and they are used a lot by dog walkers. You really think I should slow down / stop / dismount for every one? Do you realise how ridiculous that advice is? Its utter nonsense
Can we just drop it now? It was a much better thread as a pisstake
You really think I should slow down / stop / dismount for every one?
No. I said 'as necessary', quite clearly. If it's away in the distance and totally disinterested, then I take 'no' notice beyond identifying that there's a dog over there. If it starts coming towards me, I do take notice and prepare to slow or stop as appropriate. You say you can see a hundred dogs a ride, what do you do with most of them? Basically the same as me I suspect...... be aware and only act on a perceived 'threat'.
There's no difference in that regard and frankly it's you sounding ridiculous by making it seem as if there is. Where there is a difference is in the way that threat can be mitigated by the way you respond. I say ignore (the dog, not the threat) as much as possible, you favour kicking it in the face.
And re dropping it. I was responding to a direct question from kerley asking what my strategy was. You can drop it any time you want because quite clearly we are never going to agree, but each time you misinterpret my words (deliberately or not) I will of course correct or clarify.
sorry dude - I did not realise you were answering someone elses direct question
Mini pumps have much to answer for. A swift blow with a Zefal HPX , no dog will be biting you.
If this was ‘murica, you’d be able to exercise your second amendment rights and shoot all the dogs as you cycled along. Protective and fun.
I can pass a hundred dogs on a ride – I use shared paths to get out to the hills and they are used a lot by dog walkers. You really think I should slow down / stop / dismount for every one? Do you realise how ridiculous that advice is? Its utter nonsense
This really is the nub of the problem. Dogs shouldnt be off leads on cycle paths. The two things are incompatible even if the dogs are well behaved.
If I was riding along and a dog appeared out of nowhere and bites me, not a lot. Imperfect I know but you can’t control all situations. Shouldn’t happen, but can.
Thanks, I will use that "strategy" when required.
Totally unacceptable that you were bitten but your tactic of then kicking any approaching dog in the face whether or not it's actually a threat or just being friendly is incredibly selfish and over the top. That friendly young dog that may just be learning (as a child does) about the world that then gets kicked in the face by a man wearing a helmet with a bike could be made to fear and react aggressively /defensively to men in helmets /cyclists in the future. Perhaps the dog that bit you was beaten when young and impressionable by a man wearing a funny hat. Just something to think about next time you boot someone's pet that wants to say hello. By all means take defensive action against a clearly aggressive, attacking animal though.
you're welcome. I hope it works for you.
“That friendly young dog that may just be learning (as a child does) about the world that then gets kicked in the face by a man wearing a helmet with a bike could be made to fear and react aggressively /defensively to men in helmets /cyclists in the future. ”
This unfortunately is correct
However, the second amendment comment made previously has given me an idea. Anyone that doesn’t want to be harassed by dogs needs just two things
A pet Sheep
And a shotgun
Works for farmers and I see no problems arising from this. I suspect you’ll easily make the local news with this innovative strategy.
If dog owners can’t control their dogs they should have them on a lead. Simples.
I’ve been nipped twice. Once by a collie type dog on a farm, a few rides later it tried again and got a chance pedal in the mush, hasn’t happened since.
Other time was some silly bint’s dog in local woods. It clamped onto my shoe enough to hurt my foot a bit. Silly cow comes along with a facial expression suggesting she probably wasn’t going to be troubling Mensa any time soon.
”Um, he doesn’t really like bikes”.
”Should be on a lead then”.
”Um”.
Of a far more regular annoyance are the buggers who don’t clear up their dog’s shit. Most let their dogs off the lead so they can have a dump and the owner can claim they didn’t see it. Laziness and disdain for others.
Had a nice ‘interaction’ with a pillock a few years back. He was letting his dogs run all over in a local wood and thought he might have a go at me as I “wasn’t supposed to be riding there”.
When I sympathetically pointed out that, as he had his arm in a sling, it must be a real nightmare to clean up after the dogs he went a bit quiet.
I bet it had never done it before
At least next time the police will be able to check their records to see if it is a repeat offender.............
I’m puzzled by the victim blamers’ attitudes.
If you have daughters, picture them dressed up and walking home after a few drinks late at night. Drunk bloke comes up and gropes her from behind. Drunk bloke’s mate acts shocked and says he’s never done it before. Should she be happy to just shrug it off?
So that’s TJ’s immediate point addressed, now for the “running up and jumping” analogy. Daughter in same situation gets lots of “unsolicited complements” on her attractiveness yelled at her. Obviously these are only meant as complements, so no issue, right?
I wouldn't expect my daughters reaction to every person that tried to chat her up to be to kick them in the face either
Strange analogy and don't think people are saying just shrug it off but think how to react/not over react to every potentially friendly dog. Following your analogy should the daughter kick every man in the nuts who comes up in a night club to day hello?
If you have daughters, picture them dressed up and walking home after a few drinks late at night. Drunk bloke comes up and gropes her from behind. Drunk bloke’s mate acts shocked and says he’s never done it before. Should she be happy to just shrug it off?
No, totally unacceptable. Just like a dog running up to someone and attacking them is. Report to the authorities and get action taken.
But it's not victim blaming to say that while you shouldn't NEED to have a strategy to mitigate, the world's imperfect and therefore it is sensible to have one.
Are you against the Ask for Angela campaign, for example? Because we shouldn't need it?
now for the “running up and jumping” analogy. Daughter in same situation gets lots of “unsolicited complements” on her attractiveness yelled at her. Obviously these are only meant as complements, so no issue, right?
No, wrong. Because I assume the people giving the unsolicited comments are adults and therefore have the mental faculties to know right from wrong. Dogs have the mental capability of toddlers, and need to be controlled properly by their humans.... so let me counter your analogy with a different one.
If you were in a situation with your 3 year old where you saw someone with, let's say, an artificial leg, or a facial disfigurement. Your toddler might well point it out, say something? The person is clearly annoyed or embarrassed by it. How do you react? Probably to apologise and to explain to your kid why it's not appropriate. The kid will grow older and hopefully learn. A dog may not and may always want to run up to people; in that case absolutely the dog should be controlled on a lead, etc. (I'm not suggesting we gag toddlers in public by the way, we accept they say stuff out loud sometimes that we probably rather they wouldn't - I still shrivel at the thought of one of mine...)
There will always be some dog owners who respond with 'he's only a dog / being friendly / it's what they do', just as there are people who would respond to the above with 'she's only three, she doesn't know any better, get over yourself' Quite possibly the same people in both cases. Arses will always be arses.
I don’t think the night out analogy is doing this thread any favours, mainly because it is not an apt analogy.......
Friendly dogs aren’t a problem, although they can be a bit of a menace if they leap up at you and catch you off balance. But realistically I’ve never had a problem. If a dog looks ‘spirited’ I tend to stop and fuss it a bit.
What we are talking about here is irresponsible owners who just shrug their shoulders when their dog bites and/or pretend to be Mr Magoo when their dog crimps off a massive King Richard about ten yards away. A fair few of these sight-impaired owners seem to have pretty good eyesight when commenting about other people being in the woods or on the path etc. Funny that.
I'm a bit fed up with dog owners attitude to the public.
As someone who has been bitten a few times and chased many times while skiing, cycling, walking and horse riding.
A few weeks ago a dog came running up while I was cycling, starting barking aggressively. I politely asked its owner to call it back, she was quite put out. By this time I'm off the bike and have it between myself and the dog. She says it's because I'm scared and it knows. I try as politely as possible to tell her that I am indeed scared, because having been bitten many times in the past.
TJ - my sister also had a lurcher chase her and bite her while cycling.
Also I'm fed up with owners inability to train their dogs, ignore signs (mostly on NT land) where they are asked by polite notice to keep their dogs on a lead. Also allowing their animal to jump up with muddy paws, which is what happened to my mother last week. Mum didn't get an apology and she isn't able to jump away from the approaching dog as shes in her late 70's and not as nimble as myself.
Of course there are many great dog owners, who have trained their dogs and appreciate that there are non dog type people out and about, but lately they seem to be in the minority.
Dogs seem to be treated like children, spoilt, overweight and can't do anything wrong imo.
I wouldn’t expect my daughters reaction to every person that tried to chat her up to be to kick them in the face either
What if their method of chat-up was pawing and slobbering. But hey, they’re just being friendly, eh?
I don’t think the night out analogy is doing this thread any favours, mainly because it is not an apt analogy…….
It is. You can mitigate the dog’s potentially unwanted attention by putting it on a lead. Do that, problem goes away. Bit more difficult with toddlers, but they usually learn how to act around others eventually... and if they don’t, they’re usually easy to spot in adult life - they’re the ones semi-apologetically saying “he’s just being friendly” when their dog that should have been on a lead is harassing yet another person.
What if their method of chat-up was pawing and slobbering.
You’ve been out in an English market town on a Friday or Saturday evening, I take it?
