As in one that doesn't have (that many) problems with DMF, DPF, injectors etc. What gets your vote, as I'm hearing lots of negatives with regard to Ford and VAG engines? 😐
VAG as the DPF is a thing of the past.
Pre 1997 to have no EGR no particle filter no duel mass flywheel!!!
And low pressure diesel injection. Old Peugeot/citroen 1.9 turbo diesel 92 bhp
Great engine BUT COMPARED to today's engines it's poor fuel eco , noisy , and will feel slow and a bit smoky.
Looking at new(ish)......
VAG PD130
If I'm right vag now use add blue and also have a dpf but under a different name.
The same as 2014 Peugeot/ citroens have
Pre filter
Particle filter
Add blue filter
All required by all European cars to pass euro 6 emission regs
Add blue uses 10 litres every 12 months that is basically urea (piss)
Pd is good but old and noisy compared to common rail systems that every uses now. Vag were late to the party on that one. Very reliable though.
BMW M47TUD20 with the swirl flaps removed. Great engines once that particular flaw is addressed
As ChrisDiesel has mentioned, I'm pretty sure all the VAG diesels will have DPFs. There is simply no way of passing current legislation without one.
An engine with SCR (Urea, AdBlue, etc) will lower the amount of DPF filling as the soot SHOULD be less, but it will still need one.
The Ford/PSA engines are actually very good - you hear a lot of bad things as there are just so many of them. I know plenty of people who have had them with absolutely no issues however - just the case of you only hear the bad stuff and not when they work well!
If you look you'll find problems with all modern diesels regardless of manufacturer. Lots of the problems cross manufacturers such injectors, flywheels, EGR and DPF's. Lots of problems caused by low miles that would be better suited to petrol engine.
Take your pick and chances but unless your doing in excess of 13k miles a year then I would just go for a petrol with less expensive problems to fix.
mrs t-r is pushing for a more modern car recently - im fairly sure we will be buying a petrol if we do -
i have a 1.9 Dw8 engine - which will likely run till cockroaches come.
i also have a 2.2DTI isuzu engine - which will run similarly unless the fuel pump goes tits up (usuaully by misfueling)
ive replaced most of the consumables - suspension,exhaust , batteries , wheel bearings etc etc .... yet she is keen for a newer car - she thinks im being overdramatic saying that modern cars actually have more to go wrong and that our old clunkers are actually the more reliable in a "will pretty much always start and run" kind of way.
but do know i probably wont be buying a diesel which is a shame because i like the way diesels drive.
I know plenty of people who have had them with absolutely no issues however
Yup, 5 years 50k miles on a PSA/Ford 2L - zero complaints here.
And no DPF. Phew!
Bit low mileage to warrant the extra cost of a diesel, if I'm honest, but for a good long while most of its miles were motorway.
she thinks im being overdramatic saying that modern cars actually have more to go wrong
Depends - some of the 'town car' type smaller petrols aren't that complex.
Sounds like you already have several bigger motors (isuzu 4x4?, berlingo?) already?
see a c1 for 99 quid a month (or similar) piqued my interest as ideal car for her to drive to work and back
reality is - she drives 2 days a week(in winter)when she takes the mtb to go mtbing or the road bike+turbo to go to group turbo session. and almost never in summer - meaning a small towncar is pointless.
i drive on average 2 days a week normally when im in the uk..... usually on days when i have meetings across town etc.
what we use the motors for mostly is going riding/racing or taking crap to the tip - either by van or trailer - pending size and weight (house renovation)/picking up shopping
L-series.
The 2L engine in my BMW 1-series has been faultless - 4 years and 102k so far...
Just taken my 59 plate BMW 320D SE through 130,000 miles. Never skipped a beat. Quick and frugal.
Pre 1997 to have no EGR no particle filter no duel mass flywheel!!!
EGR came in before 1997 at least on VAG. My 94 had one.
Ford/PSA engines seem to treat the DPF as a service item, 70k miles. I don't think this is the case for VAG. I don't think these things are liabilities provided you know they are there and understand how to look after them.
If you're buying nearly new, you don't need to worry as much.
My experience has been that if problems occur, its really after 6 ish years old, and depend on how the cars been used.
Just make sure whatever you get has been around long enough so that you be sure there isn't a big expensive design flaw somewhere.
My experience has been that if problems occur, its really after 6 ish years old, and depend on how the cars been used.
Personal experience then as plenty of other owners have had nothing but problems including my bother with his Octavia's and DPF problems even with regular long commutes.
I have Mk3 Mondeo 2.2 tdci and never missed a beat but I know others that had problems with them from new. I think a lot is down to use and driving style with the main culprit short commuting journeys that diesel weren't really designed for but as above with my brother not a hard and fast rule.
There are quite a few things that can cause diesels to smoke. In the old days you'd see the smoke and take it to a garage, but now the DPF will just get overwhelmed. So the garage says 'oh DPF is blocked' and replace it, and it gets blocked again.
How do you know if your diesel is smoking if it's got a DPF?
Personal experience then I've not had a single problem with any of Golf I owned or the A3.
I see the confusion with my first post I missed out the word problems. Stupid dyslexia.
Never had problems with Ford 2.0 130bhp in 80k miles. or VAG 2.0 140bhp 50k
About to get BMW 2.0 I bet thats the same...
Put 100k on a VW PD engine and just passed adding 112k onto a Ford Duratorq with no engine or transmission issues, and both had mileage on them before me - 50K & 60k respectively.
[i]Old Peugeot/citroen 1.9 turbo diesel 92 bhp
[/i]
I put 160k in 4 years on a Xantia, but I don't want to drive around in an 18 y/o car...
And why not petrol, as my old 405Mi16 1.9 16v got past 200k (on the same clutch too) - only oil, filters and belts.
Honda?
I put 160k on a passat 130 s. No problems but a bit uncouth and smoked when you gave it the beans and cam belt services came around quite quick.
Then had Honda albeit that's 2.2. Lovely smooth revvy for a diesel. Chain driven so no expensive services. 100k but a few niggles with electronics so sold on.
Now on bmw 2.0 d which goes like stink but isn't as refined an engine as the honda.
We've had various diesels company cars & the two Hondas both clocked up 90k with only a clutch & brakes fitted between them.
The Peugeot & Fords on the otherhand - dropped valve, snapped cam, numerous EGR & dual mass flywheel issues etc.
They don't make many, but Honda have to be up with the best.
I also think the Ford 2.2 Puma is/was a good engine. Had one in a Mondeo, another in a Transit. Pre-DPF and EGR wasn't a huge issue.
i might be wrong these days but the honda diesel was an isuzu.
id crawl over hot coals for an isuzu diesel engine - except the 3.1TD
isuzus are the bollocks.
the pumas good in light cars - in landrovers and transits its a bollocks - likes its own injection pump also based on the pumas we have had in the family - lucky you can hear the IP leaving the building and trade it in sharpish
Owned a mk4 mondeo 2.0 (140hp) for that last 3 years, cars done 106000 (50k by myself) with no problems whatsoever, it's still on it's original clutch.
I do most of my driving on the motorway though, so can't really say if it'd have dpf problems with a lot of short journeys as most modern diesels do. I've only ever noticed it doing a regen twice.
The mk4 motor is a whole lot more reliable than the older ford diesels.
Is this not a case of:
New
Reliable
2L
Pick two?
Most bombproof 2L diseasal I had was the L-series in my N-reg 420 Rover, and that had a tuning box wired in. 43MPG min when ragged over the moors.
Most fun was not 2L - it was a 5-pot 2.4 jtd in an Alfa 156.
The 2.2 in the Civic is OK but not as nice sounding.
This Merc 2.2 in my vito is sweet.
TOO SWEET!
Mashed one gearbox, electronic problems.
Bits fall off the thing like an old leper...
But the engine is sweet!
What the OP wants is a 320D/520D but without the BMW badge. It needs to be realiable, see him into retirement and tow his caravan plus get him from North England to the Bonty 24/12
Personally I'd forget the snobbery and just get one. I get if he test drove one he'd find it hard to go back. He could do worse than a newer estate version of his mondo which is where i feel he'll end up.
Loved the BMW 2L diesel engine, shame I hated the rest of the car.
Stoatsbrother - MemberLoved the BMW 2L diesel engine, shame I hated the rest of the car.
Exactly what a work mate said, he's back in an Audi now?
As far as I know, the old 1.7 Honda was made by Isuzu, and was regarded as terrible with such bad turbo spool delay it was hard to pull away without stalling.
I think the newer 2.2 is made in house. Can't comment on reliability but I test drove a Civic with it and it was quiet, revvy and an absolute blast to drive.
it appears your right regarding the 2.2
the 1.7 was still a bomb proof engine - id be interested to know how turbo spool delay makes an engine hard to pull away with..... none of my mates with 1.7 breadvans have ever mentioned this.
The Honda 2.2 is pretty reliable but no more than other diesels and the have DPF issues. The Merc 2.2 in the last gen e-class and c-class has plenty of people run them to the 300-500k miles. Pity the rest of the car rusted away first 🙁
id be interested to know how turbo spool delay makes an engine hard to pull away with
Well, small amount of revs, let clutch out, no turbo means very little torque and the engine stalls. According to some forum or other debating the relative merits of old vs new Civic a while ago. I have never driven an old one but I have driven a Citroen that had the same problem. You got used to it of course like you do with your car's foibles but it was annoying all the same.
i like my clutch and have sympathy for it - generally i never take off from a standing start at 3k RPM - i am not the stig.
You don't? Neither do I. Do you have a point?
where does your turbo kick in - mines 2.5k - hence why i struggle to see why turbo lag would have any bearing on take off stalling - poor clutch control is not the engines fault.
all my diesels ive ever had will take off with zero throttle if asked - they generally only need 1500 to pull away nice and briskly
I might be missing the point but what has the Isuzu engine got to do with the turbo lag. Surely Honda specified the turbo to be fitted so the problem lays with them and not the engine it's bolted to. Much the same as the Mini Cooper S turbo problems was a BMW issue and not with PSA Peugeot Citroen who made the engine.
The Honda 2.2 is pretty reliable but no more than other diesels and the have DPF issues.
Honda 2.2 doesnt have DPF (06-11?)