[Closed] Begining of the end for Park Run's ?

Genuine issue for councils with public land being used for commercial events, also even if the event is free the council faces additional clean-up costs or maintaince costs. As you say paying a few £ per head should not be a crises

Hyperbole alert!

The story is that one parish council controlling one park are being a PITA.

Genuine issue for councils with public land being used for commercial events, also even if the event is free the council faces additional clean-up costs or maintaince costs.

Ah, so runners are wearing the paths out, is that it?

I thought ParkRun wasn't commercial, run by volunteers etc?

The story is that one parish council controlling one park are being a PITA.

Yes and now it is in the national news, so other councils will see it as a good bandwagon to get on....

Yes and now it is in the national news, so other councils will see it as a good band wagon to get on....

Hardly: I've known about this issue for some time, and there's no sign of it being a problem anywhere else in Bristol.

I thought ParkRun wasn't commercial, run by volunteers etc

Exactly. That's the point 😕

It's very difficult to see what impact Parkrun has on anyone else: it's just a group of people running at (usually) a time when the park is deserted save for a couple of dog walkers.

I've been to plenty of Park Runs and never see a mess to clean up after. Not entirely sure that you can argue that there is more maintenance required as some of the parks I've ran at started off with paths that were covered in moss and after a months of people running on them they nearly clear of it but the paths that weren't used still had a covering.
Very short sighted of Stoke Gifford Parish Council and no doubt the local business will suffer if the run is no longer held there with people using the shops and cafe before and after they run.
If it was a commercial event then fair enough but these are no more than charities aimed at getting people out of their houses and getting fit. I know I started my running because of Park Run and had some great support from them as wobbled around the park failing to get under 40 mins. Yes, I was that fat and unfit.

I know I started my running because of Park Run and had some great support from them as wobbled around the park failing to get under 40 mins. Yes, I was that fat and unfit.

Which is the point, surely. There are only two options: free Parkrun, or no Parkrun. The council will not make any money if it decides to charge.

Isn't physical exercise supposed to be encouraged? Obesity epidemic and all that?
I have never been to a parkrun, but friends get dragged to them by their kids and they end up getting exercise AND enjoying it. Some now run in their "own" time now too.

Surely if they charge the runners to use the park paths then everyone that enters should be charged the same fee?
If they do bring the charge in then they'll just stop doing parkruns there.
All the parkruns I've been to have been great - they bring people to the area that wouldn't on the whole be there, who will no doubt use other amenities and probably spend a bit of cash at local businesses.
It's just short sighted cashing in by the parish council, but will end up with them stabbing themselves in the back if they do bring the charge in.

It obviously benefits Public Health being free, however are the people who turn up for these events, people who ordinarily go out running anyhow?

Some are, but I know loads of people who started running because of Park Run. Whether there's a long-term health saving, I don't know, as they all seem to have continual injuries.

Rather daft idea by the council. PR is not a race or a commercial event. Will they charge dog walkers and their dogs? Parents with pushchairs who churn up the grass. Never seen a messy PR plus they bring money to the local shops.

I took up Park Run before Christmas as a means of "cross" training for the bike and was impressed at the turnout. Very well run events by volunteers and a good mix of abilities.
Running isn't my cup-of-tea (bores me) but its a great 30min kicking where I dont have to worry about washing the bike after and I dont have to shed-out for an expensive licence to find out I dont enjoy it. It's a cheap and cheerful way of getting fit - although some people bring cake for after 😀

Stoke Gifford Parish Council

my guess is a member of Stoke Gifford Parish Council used to like quiet sunday morning walks in the park...

Stoke Gifford Parish Council will decide later whether to ask runners to pay for maintenance of the paths.

Well, one can only hope there'll charge every other user too - in the interests of fairness obviously.

I can't imagine that idea would go down too well!

Similar discussions ongoing between BMC and the National Trust and NRW, who are both griping about "commercial use"

Unfortunately their byelaws are less than clear, and do prohibit some commercial uses (like 'exposing' goods for sale) but say nothing about provision of services like guiding or professional dogwalking . They are both trying to either ignore or reinterpret their byelaws in a way that would prohibit it.

Never taken part as none close enough, but been to a few locations as they are winding up, and never seen an issue with litter or damage to surfaces.

I have seen quite a lot of people paying for parking, using the cafe facilities, and generally giving an area a happy, healthy and positive vibe.

Easy to be cynical about parish councils, but it's invariably just a couple of publicity seekers giving the rest a bad name.

I'd happily pay £1 to the local park's association/charity if it meant making an excellent space (Roundhay, Leeds) even better. Directly to the council however... probably not.

Maybe 'voluntary contribution to the park's charity' might be less compromising to Park Run's values?

Park run is not without impact here - parking is very tricky for an hour or so and it makes walking the dog/toddlers on the park's arterial paths impossible. But no bones, we just go elsewhere on a Saturday morning.

Next step: Councils throughout the country implement "pay to walk" schemes.

It's ridiculous: I'm sure it's been dreamt up by some accountant who's been tasked with coming up with ways to make some cash (it actually sounds like the kind of rubbish a contracts manager we once worked with would come up with).

I've been to plenty of Park Runs and never see a mess to clean up after.

Perhaps Paula Radcliffe attends this one?

I never used to run and, as cycling *still* seems to be a problem, started running the Parkrun in November. I was at a stage where I couldn’t even run 5k in one go and now I’m happily completing 10k runs in an hour - Parkrun has been a *really* big deal to me and I might never have done it if I had to pay.

Rachel

The likes of British Military Fitness do pay a charge for using public parks, but then they're a commercial organization that takes money from participants and they do get perks like access after dark through the winter.

I love Parkrun but our local one is heaving already and will probably get bigger over the summer. 600+ people in a little park makes it difficult for anyone else to use, even with marshalling there's some damage around paths and the roads around are crammed with parked cars.

The answer I think is to encourage more, smaller events - but they can struggle for volunteers, let alone people willing to run an event every week. Certainly where I am there's quite a few public parks between the ones that do parkrun and having 200 at each would be much lower impact. I would't blame a local council wanting to do something to limit numbers.

It wouldn't be £1 though would it?
Park run would need to charge for the time and services to would take to collect, administrate and send the money. Infrastructure that they don't have at present.
The Parish just needs to stop being a dick. It's a pretty transparent grab for a grant. Parish meeting minutes here;

Boatload of people just out for personal gain at the cost of something for the benefit of anyone.

Surely there's no real difference between "parkrun" and "a lot of people turning up to go for a run together" in any real sense?

I know a couple of people who have done these things, they seem a pretty decent way of getting people out in the open and exercising. Why on earth anyone would suggest they should have special charges applied I genuinely don't understand.

Well I'm going to carry on turning up at the same time on a Saturday and killing myself for 20 minutes running around the same paths.I'm sure a lot of people will be joining me.
Good publicity for Park Run in the end, a few people who weren't aware of them might be now.

Wrecker, nice find. The council wants money and the "residents" don't want to share their park. The Park Run representative did the right thing in not applying for grants as the council were pushing them to do. It would be saying that Park Run should contribute to the park and if no grants were given or later withdrawn were would they stand then.
Small minded parish council with a few busy body residents with nothing better to do than complain. I'm sure a few flash mobs at the park would give them something to really whine about.

Well I'm going to carry on turning up at the same time on a Saturday and killing myself for [b]20 minutes [/b]running around the same paths

Show off 😯 although some of ours are 16mins on a hilly course

. The council wants money and the "residents" don't want to share their park. The

philjunior - Member
Why on earth anyone would suggest they should have special charges applied I genuinely don't understand.

there's no shortage of half-wits, they seem drawn to local government for some reason...

600+ people in a little park makes it difficult for anyone else to use

True, but
a) They're done pretty early in the morning, all year round, it's not like they charge through a toddlers tea party at 3pm on a Sunday in summer just for the sake of it.

b) 600 people, are people too. They're no less entitled to use the park than anyone else, and are arguably being far more considerate, 600 being not much more of an inconvenience than 10 really.

I don't really get why park run is seen as a special case. If a local running club was putting it on (and many moons ago when I ran they did) they'd be charged for doing so despite not 'making a profit' off it.

Whole story tells you all you need to know about parish councils.
Perhaps if parish council members were representatives of all the parishioners this garbage wouldn't make it on to their agendas.
Park run is one of the very few things I can think of that is really all good with no negative aspects (ok maybe parking- but cars are a problem for all of society)
Just a load of NIMBYs abusing their power and status.

mrhoppy - Member

I don't really get why park run is seen as a special case. If a local running club was putting it on (and many moons ago when I ran they did) they'd be charged for doing so despite not 'making a profit' off it.

Most park-runs are organised or at least mostly staffed by the local running clubs. In one case I know of they base it out of the running clubs club-house.

I get your point though, mass participation 'events' are events and should be treated as such in terms of organisation and legal requirements. However its pretty clear the benefits of these runs outweigh the minor negatives, especially as they are often short duration and early on in the day so only the daft would try to charge (sadly that's the type who run councils)

I get your point though, mass participation 'events' are events and should be treated as such in terms of organisation and legal requirements.

It would seem from a google search that they have insurance from UK athletics and obtain events licences from the local councils...

Alternatively: a load of bolloks and red tape is what holds back other sporting events and Park Run should be the shining example, not the exception.

It's no different to club TT really, or audax or reliability trial, although they usually have a nominal charge to cover admin etc.

don't really get why park run is seen as a special case. If a local running club was putting it on (and many moons ago when I ran they did) they'd be charged for doing so despite not 'making a profit' off it.

This. My club puts on an annual evening of road races within Birkenhead park. A load of volunteers give up their time yet the club has to jump through hoops.
Parkrun avoid this by naming them "time trials" and not races. No issue with 00's of people running around a park on a Saturday morning (the more the merrier) just the unfairness of it.

Just remembered that Bristol is the european capital for sport this year too 🙄

[url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-36030582 ]Council votes to charge Parkrun for Little Stoke event[/url]

If you're one for petitions, I've just come across this one: https://www.change.org/p/stoke-gifford-parish-council-keep-little-stoke-parkrun-in-little-stoke-park?recruiter=11881659&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=copylink

Rachel

Can we just be clear that this embarrassment of a tinpot dibleyesque council is literally nothing to do with Bristol, it a different local authority area (tory South Gloucestershire) and a million miles away in politics, ideology and demographic. Thank ****.

Maybe turkeys do vote for Christmas?

I can't see this descicion lasting..

So councils provide parks at great expense to improve the wellbeing of its constituents, and then kick up a fuss when people use said parks for their intended purpose? Idiots.

We pay taxes that go toward the upkeep of public parks. Why should we pay again to use them?

parkrun have made a statement.

[url= http://www.parkrun.org.uk/news/2016/04/12/parkrun-reaction-to-stoke-gifford-parish-council-decision/ ]http://www.parkrun.org.uk/news/2016/04/12/parkrun-reaction-to-stoke-gifford-parish-council-decision/[/url]

As have Little Stoke parkrun

[url= http://www.parkrun.org.uk/littlestoke/news/2016/04/12/thank-you/ ]http://www.parkrun.org.uk/littlestoke/news/2016/04/12/thank-you/[/url]

This is interesting

[url= http://www.parkrun.org.uk/littlestoke/news/2016/03/30/a-statement-on-behalf-of-little-stoke-parkrun-and-parkrun-uk/ ]http://www.parkrun.org.uk/littlestoke/news/2016/03/30/a-statement-on-behalf-of-little-stoke-parkrun-and-parkrun-uk/[/url]

Anyone hear the woman interviewed on Today? The way she was going on it sounded like they were suggesting sending her kids to Mars

I'm a park runner and on a Parish Council.

I think the Parish have called this right.

They've tried it for three years, it hasn't worked out so the Park Run will have to find somewhere else.

Our local park run relocated when permission was withdrawn without any fuss.

I think parkrun needs to maintain a dignified distance from the council's arguments, and not get dragged into "you said we said" debate, before something is said and taken the wrong way.

Parish councils are under funding pressures like everywhere else and I can see how they have seen the national parkrun organisation and thought they had found an opportunity. Interested that parkrun is a limited company and not a charity.

This is a great example of how public bodies are desperate to get funding from other organisations and other public bodies at the moment, with no joined up thinking or view of the bigger picture.

Big Society in action being screwed over by austerity. Oh, the ironing, eh, Mr Cameron?

I heard the interview with the COO on R5 yesterday and lost more sympathy.

He was playing up that they're a not for profit organisation and take no money locally. Well non of the local football clubs or other sports clubs that use council facilities make profit either, but they get charged and have to take money (not a lot, but some). He couldn't see how they could possibly take money practically with only volunteers, whilst ignoring the many sports clubs that manage just that. He spent some time talking about benefit in kind of having many runners in the park without ever really explaining what the benefit is to the council.

Parkrun has managed to put itself in a privileged place compared to many other local sports events by stating that it's not going to pay to use facilities and just accepting that this won't be challenged. That's fine as a principle but you need to accept you might be moved on in that case if the land owner disagrees in the end.

Can we just be clear that this embarrassment of a tinpot dibleyesque council is literally nothing to do with Bristol, it a different local authority area (tory South Gloucestershire) and a million miles away in politics, ideology and demographic. Thank *.

If you want dibley-esque, tinpot, NIMBY fwits, look no further than long ashton or clifton or even worse, those horfield dickheads!!!

Our local park run relocated when permission was withdrawn without any fuss

All fine and dandy if you've got another park to go to. The arguments seem to indicate that most runners are local. If there isn't another space in a reasonable distance then the parkrun stops. Simple. People who may be taking exercise as part of parkrun will gradually lose motivation and stop running.

Some people run fine with no motivation. As already stated in this thread parkrun provides a valuable opportunity for non-runners, those with children etc. to get fit on a Saturday morning. If I twist my neck far enough I can kinda see some of the council's points but it is incredibly short-sighted of them and I can't really agree with anything they say. Still the local residents can flood back to enjoying their park on a Saturday and Sunday morning now or as I suspect the park will go back to being deserted apart from a couple of dog walkers.

Anyone hear the woman interviewed on Today? The way she was going on it sounded like they were suggesting sending her kids to Mars

I heard it. I wonder how many people they had to ask before they found one who would provide a suitably dramatic reaction! Shows how little sanity there is to the reporting of this (non)story.

The statement from the council is worth a read. It's clear they've been totally supporting to date, including giving them storage space. They even offered to fill out a grant application - all the Park Run Team had to do was sign it. That's pretty supportive.

Usually park runs are a good thing for the venue. In this case it seems it hasn't been and on balance the locals no longer want to host it. So Parkrun just need to find somewhere more suitable. How many UK Park Runs are in a different location to the original one? Ours has moved three times to my knowledge.

The arguments seem to indicate that most runners are local.

Cars are a big problem, so many of them must be coming a reasonable distance.

This park is funded by a Parish, not a town or County. It's easy for a town, or county to swallow up a bit of cost, but resurfacing a car park is a massive project for a PC.

Grants are available for infrastructure, but if Parkrun won't sign the application form...

Grants are available for infrastructure, but if Parkrun won't sign the application form...

Please ignore this complete bollocks

The only one talking bollocks is you. csb quite correctly pointed out that the park falls within S. Gloucestershire.

This park is funded by a Parish, not a town or County.

No, it's funded by taxpayers. It would seem the Parish would like them to pay twice.

but resurfacing a car park is a massive project for a PC.

Are you saying that the car park wouldn't need resurfacing if Parkrun didn't exist?

LOL. Please ignore this complete bollocks. Until a few years ago it was very much bristol and still has Bristol on the address. An imaginary line was drawn and it was nominated as SG. Same people, same place.
If anything, the city of bristol is even worse, with a mayor so corrupt he'd make any tory blush.

Cars are a big problem, so many of them must be coming a reasonable distance.

Yes it is physically close but in a political sense it is very much South Gloucestershire.

The only one talking bollocks is you. csb quite correctly pointed out that the park falls within S. Gloucestershire.

Would be interesting to know what the guys at the top are earning out of the thousands of volunteers' hard work (not to mention the benefit to the sponsors). If a Ltd co wants to do timed runs, with sponsor involvement, etc, maybe they should have to follow the same procedure as a proper running club as surfer suggests above. There's nothing to stop the locals organising themselves and having a mass-start, non timed, non corporate run on a sat morning though. That would be a good response IMO.

Only a few years ago south gloucestershire didn't exist.

20 years ago. Before that it was in Avon.

Not Bristol.

Do yourself a favour and shut up chris.

I'm quite happy for you to carry on embarrassing yourself. You might want to be in Bristol, but you're not. Deal with it.

How is Avon going to have a mayor?

You miss the point completely

How is Avon going to have a mayor?

And where was Bristol? Ah, yes it was in Avon.

I'm quite happy for you to carry on embarrassing yourself. You might want to be in Bristol, but you're not. Deal with it.

And where was Bristol? Ah, yes it was in Avon.

So was Bath. Are you saying Bath was in Bristol, numbnuts?

Maybe maybe not, but I'm still far more bristolian than you'll ever be.

Would you like to meet chris? Many SG addesses have bristol in the address, mine does. That is because it was part of bristol. Do you think bath addresses had bristol in them?

Usually park runs are a good thing for the venue. In this case it seems it hasn't been and on balance the locals no longer want to host it.

Not sure how you've drawn this conclusion - very clearly, the [url= http://www.parkrun.org.uk/littlestoke/ ]186.1[/url] weekly local attendees are quite happy with the venue - it's a handful of parish councillors/NIMBYists who no longer want to host it.
I wonder if, when the next parish council elections come around, there might be a few parkrunners on the ballot sheet?

Would you like to meet chris?

That is because it was part of bristol.

Wannabe.

https://companycheck.co.uk/company/07289574/PARKRUN-LIMITED/summary

I was here when we were in avon (and bristol).

Stoke Gifford was in Northavon, not Bristol. Both were part of Avon County Council. That takes us back to 1974, btw.

If you're struggling to place where I'm from, it's somewhere called "educated".

Got a meeting to discuss my new job in bristol centre

I don't really count sustainability grads as educated. I should know, I have two who work for me.

I don't really count sustainability grads as educated. I should know, I have two who work for me.

Listen petal, no amount of bluster from you is going to put Stoke Gifford in Bristol. And if you're a representative example, then you'd fit right in on the parish council.

Newthump's take on it...[url= http://newsthump.com/2016/04/13/park-to-install-coin-operated-swings-a-premium-slide-and-a-members-only-roundabout/ ]More charges[/url]

I wonder if, when the next parish council elections come around, there might be a few parkrunners on the ballot sheet?

Why wait, you can be co-opted onto a PC at any time...

It's not exactly a 'job' people are fighting to do so volunteers are always welcome.

Nothing to add to the conversation, other than Ransos and Wrecker's 'who's more Bristolian conversation' is hilarious. Please keep going.

Agreed. This thread is 'gert lush'.

I'm still far more bristolian than you'll ever be.

Jonathon Liew's article [url= http://www.telegraph.co.uk/cycling/2016/04/12/paris-roubaix-cobbles-offers-one-of-the-most-thrilling-sights-in/ ]here[/url], whilst about Paris-Roubaix makes a very interesting point about how exercise and sport are seen in the UK and mentioned this issues. Worth a read.

Nobody can deny they are being dicks Chris but they aren't alone are they?
Trash horfield, Ashton stadia development etc.
on that is it your sept refusing to publish accts for the go green spending? We're you aware of the mayor giving thousands of it to his daughters DANCE TROUPE?

He spent some time talking about benefit in kind of having many runners in the park without ever really explaining what the benefit is to the council.

Why should it benefit the council?

There's nothing to stop the locals organising themselves and having a mass-start, non timed, non corporate run on a sat morning though.

There's nothing to stop them timing it either.

In fact, I'm struggling to understand what mechanism would be used to stop a park run happening in a public place.