Before I buy a Sage Bambino

I have a Gaggia Classic 2003 so might be seen as being already one one side of the fence.

For me the classis evo goes back to the pre 2015 models.

All stainless steel body 58mm porta filter, two way solenoid and its a gaggia.

I am sure more opinions will come along 😉

Yes it’s the best VFM with inbuilt pressure regulation and temp control. Buy a better tamper; the one it comes with sucks. Splash out on a normcore (imo). Also get a better/proper basket. learn about puck prep. Enjoy.

ps also ensure your water is adequate. Tesco ashbeck is best.

Agree with flannol although I’m happy with Scottish tap water. I’ve  no experience of other machines but been using a bambino plus for two years. Have upgraded the tamper and portafilter. Prefer manually steaming milk now I’ve had some practice so probably didn’t need the plus.

I was a dedicated black coffee only drinker until i got an espresso machine.  I learned to froth milk and make lattes and cappuccinos for my wife, but then got a taste for them.  I still drink more straight espressos and black Americanos, but a good cappuccino is an indulgent thing of beauty. With a little practice and good beans, it's easy to make a better cappuccino, latte or machiato than the over frothed foamy rubbish you get in a lot of cafes. And if you really want to impress, you can learn "latte art" - hearts, tulips, swans etc. - great fun!

Also really indulgent mochas with real high cocoa chocolate, espresso martinis etc. etc.

The Bambino is great machine, tbh at the price - even if you never make milk drinks it's still good value.

I bought one for my foody son. He is happy with it

You have clocked that the plus only buys you a thermostatic control on milk heating

I've been using mine most days for a couple of years. It still works as well as when brand new; no loss of pressure or heat. Similar to Blokeuptheroad, I've developed a taste for drinks other than espressos or long-blacks. It's great being able to tinker around with the steamer.

You will need a better tamper. I also upgraded the portafilter and baskets as I wanted to go "bottomless". I'd now like a more sophisticated machine but don't really have the space. Not sure how much better a £2k machine would be other than more regulation and control... particular on the steamer.

Not sure how much better a £2k machine would be.

I always wonder about this. I have a lowly Delonghi 680. Am I actually missing out on anything when I enjoy the coffee it makes? I know a bean to cup would give me a whole load of extra features but a fancy pants espresso machine is still just an espresso machine right?

I've a Bambino and have never used the milk frother. It doesn't get in the way and I don't think looking for a machine without one either reduce your footprint. Mine only came with double wall basket inserts. If you get one and that's all it has then buy the single wall inserts from their bigger machine (same sized portafilter). I found it much easier to produce a nice coffee with the single wall inserts (using fresh ground from the sage grinder). Double wall inserts only get used when I'm out of beans and need to use pre ground.

My Bambino broke (heater element) a couple of months after the warranty ran out, and it was a couple of hundred to fix from Sage recommended service repair in my area. I know of a couple of other Sage machines that haven't been the most reliable either.

I'll probs open mine up myself at some point to have a look, but I can't honestly say I'd get another.

I was (and still am) a massive Gaggia Classic fan for no-frills espresso making. Loved being able to work on it myself and tinker with it along the way. I'm cautious about the SAGE range as it seems quite 'computer controlled' which makes me worry about being able to fix it if it were to break. No such issues with the Classic.

I just use an Aeropress or V60 now as pretty much only drink Americano with milk anyway and I got annoyed with having to warm the thing up every time I wanted a brew!

Warm up is a non issue with the Bambino, it's near instant. Mine is approaching 5 now so probably due to blow!

I don't have a bambino, but I'm four years of pretty heavy usage of a Barista Pro. Not sure how different they are, but the things I've learned about mine are: backflush and descale regularly even if like us you don't live in a particularly hard water area. Sometimes I'll backflush with the descaler because it's the build up of limescale that kills these machines.

Definitely get the single wall baskets. Even with the thermocouple instant heating thing, I tend to leave mine for a few mins to warm up. I can pretty much get consistent shots (I only drink espresso) from mine, and the whole milk steamer thing works fine if you feel the need! I tend to do the shot first then the milk as with a single boiler water will be too hot if you do it the other way round.

I thought mine was dead a few weeks ago after it stopped heating the water. Did a descale back flush and all was well again. Had looked at getting it repaired and that looked like £150-£200. There was a place that would come and do it at your home but they seem to have gone post Covid.

I did buy the gravity tamper and stir-er think Mark was recommended on a FGF a while ago. I'm sure my coffee tastes £70 better now 😉 Even if it doesn't the gravity tamper is a thing of joy to use.

If mine broke, I'd replace it with a separate grinder and the dual boiler Sage. I'm not worried about loads of control over temp and pressure, I just want great/repeatable coffee.

Is the cleaning cycle the back flush Alex?

Gaggia Classic here (circa 2005), love it for it's mechanical simplicity and ability to tinker if you need/want. (wind the pressure back as a first job... didn't realise this for 12 years...!) The SAGE machines always looked a bit too modern for me, i.e. LCD, push buttons etc.

If youre not into milk and counter space is an issue then  a lever machine like a Flair or Cafelat Robot might fit the bill.

I have a Flair Pro 2 and now I've figured out a decent workflow I find it a really enjoyable way to make coffee.

Pros:

- small footprint and/or easy to store in a cupboard (mine lives on top of the kitchen units when not in use)

- feedback from the lever means that with a bit of experience it's much easier to dial in new beans.

- quieter than a boiler/pump machine

- zero maintenance.

Cons:

- process is a bit more involved. It definitely felt like a faff at first

- can't do milk if you change your mind and decide you want a cappucino

- back-to-back shots is definitely a bit more faff

Sage are all about features rather durability.

I've had 3 oracles and I'm also on my second repair in 12 months.

Good machines ruined by durability issues.

If I started again I would look at Gaggia or that miicoffee product

@nixie - on my machine, I get two messages: flush- normally a tablet using the rubber basket in the portafilter- tends to take two runs on mine to dissolve tablet completely. My understanding is that flushes water all the way back to the pump(s).

Second one is descale when you need to fill water carrier (remove filter) add descaler and it then goes through the pumps (as it does steamer and main head). I always run the program again afterwards with clean water to make sure there's no residue.

The sage machines are more complicated and a little more difficult to work on, but they are home serviceable.  My Barista Touch Pro just lunched its grinder thanks to some overly hard beans and whilst there were 40 screws to get to it, the part was £7.

Thanks Alex, sounds like the same as mine but I get notifications by flashing light instead of screen.

My recently bought Bambino came with both double wall and single wall baskets for those who've mentioned it above.

The Sage Duo Temp Pro is generally regarded as pretty damn solid (more so than the newer Bambino) - mine has been in daily use for the best part of 9 years now without a single hiccup.

I’ve had 3 oracles and I’m also on my second repair in 12 months.

Where as I have had an Oracle for probably 5 years now that has been faultless.

We had a Bambino before getting the Oracle. The Bambino was a great machine

From what I remember the puck size in the Bambino is smaller than larger machines.

I’ve a 2019 Gaggia Classic Pro, bought in 2022, and I’m pretty happy with it. I’ve taken it apart as far as the solenoid valve when that got clogged with scale. This kind of work seems to be pretty routine with coffee machines in hard water areas. I now try to back flush it with cleaner/descaler more often, whereas previously I was more focussed on descaling the boiler regularly(ish). Our water is rock hard though. It mostly gets used for espressos/americanos and occasional milk frothing.

Was thinking of moving to Sage after 3 years with a previously well looked after Gaggia Classic, it seems temperamental with clogged solenoids etc but could be down to me not descaling and back flushing often enough, it probs gets a back flush once a month and descale every 6 (I've seen people back flush every day??)

Having read the above I may stick with it, I kind of just want to take it for a full service like when you know you can do all the jobs on the bike yourself but taking it to an actual shop everything feels a little sweeter afterwards*

*Your LBS experience may vary

The Bambino is well regarded.

I'm with Stevious though, Flair Pro2 user, it's an amazing device and will outlive many other boiler based machines (cos the kettle does the boiling).

@toby1 I have never seen a coffee machine look like a Flair Pro 2 before

https://shop.doppiocoffee.co.uk/flair-/flair-pro-2/

Surely you need to be semi professional barista to make decent coffee using that?

I'm thinking of stepping up from a st st Moka Pot to a proper coffee/espresso machine. Though a flawed cook like me probably needs something akin to a Sage Bambino (Plus ?) or Gaggia Classic for a bit more longevity.

I have a Gaggia Classic Pro with PID and other mods, my mum wanted an espresso machine and I got her a Bambino as it's more user friendly. Having used both, I'd be quite happy to live with the Bambino

Thinks

I've a Bambino, it's been flashing lights at me for a while, probably nigh on 2 years used daily. This thread prompted a look turns out the flush instructions you get are for a different machine. Now fixed and not flashing.

Good simple machine turn on, put coffee in, press button. Done.

@nickingsley it takes some practice to use the flair well, but there's some good YouTube videos and support online. Once you have the process down it's easy enough, my wife has it nailed too and she can't be bothered with most things.

However, the Bambino would be a simpler process for sure s d will still produce great coffee, when paired with a decent grinder. I rarely hit the mark with a moka pot, but get great coffee regularly now.

So we're agreed - three different coffee machines and a sort of countertop multi-gym thing it is. 🙂

I think the manual mechanical things would make more sense if we drank more coffee, - having all the 'value' in the machine focused just on the coffee and not the milk we don't drink -  but we drink one coffee a day usually (occasionally we get a bit reckless and have 'a treacherous second coffee' on special occasions) So anything that needs to be 'dialed in' in terms of technique isn't really going to happen, we just want that one coffee to be good coffee with a reasonable degree of repeatability. The fairly instant-on nature of it probably suits our once a day usage as well

Based on the above the Bambino seems to fit the bill best, I'm unlikely to get excited about tinkering and modding and in terms of long term reliability / servicabilty  we have nice soft Scottish water and our relatively low usage should mean we get a good few years out of it before anything needs attention anyway.

(the Duo Temp is a bit tempting too, being more serviceable but looking at the options on sale it looks like it might be getting phased out, so come the time I'd actually need to be servicing it I'm not sure how available parts would be)

I'm guessing a lot of the parts are interchangeable, and there's enough out there that someone will make a few quid keeping them going.

I keep looking at: https://clumsygoat.co.uk/collections/home-espresso-machines/products/sage-the-dual-boiler-espresso-machine-eureka-specialita-grinder-package?variant=44046811660506

but unless my current machine does spectacularly expire, there's no way I can justify that. Even with my significant coffee habit.

I can't even get the case off my oracle!

Waiting for coffee classics to come and sort some stuff out.

The coffee from it is rubbish too.  The doses are all over the place. Mostly solved by getting a single dose df64p grinder.

Think the grinder in the oracle is about £15 worth of product.

The new ninja cafe luxe looks an excellent middle ground when it comes to the Uk - semi automatic job.

Shame it doesn't dispense water as such for Americans etc.

Getting the case off without snapping the tabs is definitely not a simple exercise. I've had mine apart once (by giving it to a more responsible/competent adult) and was surprised about how well made it appeared to be. Certainly a lot more metal in there than expected!

If I was buying again, I'd definitely go separate grinder.  Also any machine that can't add hot water, that's a deal breaker for me. Saw the review of that Ninja, it did look good apart from that.

In a sort of related topic, I'm doing a Barista course in Bristol (where else) on the grounds (ahem) it'll be akin to MTB coaching - improve the person not the kit!

Sage Duo Temp Pro is generally regarded as pretty damn solid

Apart from one like mine which just doesn't get quite hot enough. The model has no temp adjustment. Tried every variation and the same coffee back to back with a Moka pot (which definitely gets hot enough!). Lighted roasted coffee when used with the Sage is sour and under-extracted.
Running the steam wand before and pulling just water through helps but because it's "duo temp" it dumps the hotter water from the steaming anyway.

If I was starting again I'd go for a Gaggia Classic.... or Profitec Go if money was no object

@nixie - I'm pretty sure the Bambino doesn't have a backflush cycle thingy. It just does a cleaning cycle pulling the water with descaler tablet through from the tank. I know other Sage's do have 2 different cycles though (which confused me massively when I was looking to do mine!).

I've got the Rancilio Silvia in use currently while the winter project is to strip the Gaggia and replace some stuff maybe a wee service

Nothing between the machines although the Rancilio has much more weight feels solid and never suffers from the dribbly cock the Gaggias all seem to suffer from

Yeah - having used a new Classic, I was disappointed by the build quality, and for what's billed as a "proper" espresso machine, it felt like a toy.

I'm not a fan of the Silvia's looks at all, but they certainly feel more solid.

For what you are describing, I think the bambino is the best option.  Lance is a bit (super?) annoying, but his review is certainly comprehensive:

Lighted roasted coffee when used with the Sage is sour and under-extracted.

That's down to the grind not the Sage surely? If it's sour, grind finer.

If I was starting again I’d go for a Gaggia Classic…. or Profitec Go

I have the Profitec Go. Can confirm it's great!

Lighted roasted coffee when used with the Sage is sour and under-extracted.

That’s down to the grind not the Sage surely? If it’s sour, grind finer.

Could also be temperature - lighter roasts need higher temps to properly extract.

In the spirit of recommending what you have:  Lelit Mara X.  Excellent little machine.

Take a look at https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/marketplace/ some real bargains to be had, and plenty of the sort of thing you are looking at.

On my oracle for a light roast it's a fine grind - 2.5:1 extraction and 96 degrees.

Lelit Mara X.  Excellent little machine.

I think they lost me with the phrase 'In just 24 minutes' on the front page of their website. I'd be halfway up the M77 before its ready.

Yeah - fast start-up seems to be the new thing.  Doesn’t bother me as I wfh anyway.

I’m a big fan of the bambino… I think you’d have to spend quite a lot more to get something objectively better.

Let’s not mention grinders 🙂

Now we've reached a rare consensus. Where's best to buy one? I seem to remember numerous psas but the current deals on the sage website are a bit average.