[Closed] Barefoot running?

it can take a while to learn the technique, your calf muscles won't thank you if you just slip on a pair of New Balance Minimus*, and head off for a quick 5k tester...

(*wot i wear mostly)

this video explains the technique quite well:

Don't go straight in to it. It is a tool to be used to develop aspects of your fitness. Not many people in my running club (2nd in British Fell Championships) do it, none of the fast ones race that way either in my club nor many barefoot runners seen at races so make of that what you will.

I'd be inclined to say its not for everyone.

http://strengthrunning.com/category/barefoot-running/

I wear New Balance Minimus Trail. Been doing it for a while, no real issues, just after Christmas I went for what I was hoping would be a longer run in my older shoes which were previously considered to be fairly minimal. My god, it was agony. My back was murder, I could only do a couple of miles with walking.

The key factor IMO is that it forces you to mid or forefoot strike.

I kind of assumed that to be the case. So any recommendations on getting the technique nailed?

Thing is I think my natural style is to land on the balls of the feet, but with my current shoes I'm forced to land on the heel as it's the first bit of the shoe to hit the ground.

Oh and I'm not looking to do any competitive or club running - it's just to do with improving fitness without jarring my back too much.

Pieface - Member
Not many people in my running club (2nd in British Fell Championships) do it, none of the fast ones race that way either in my club nor many barefoot runners seen at races so make of that what you will.

fell running shoes have next-to-no heel cushioning, i suspect plenty of people in your club run with a fore-foot style, they just don't connect their technique with all this 'barefoot' nonsense.

SprocketJockey - Member
...any recommendations on getting the technique nailed?

run on the spot, don't lift your feet very high, land on the balls of your feet, allow your heels to gently touch down at the end of each landing.

start moving forwards - try and get your feet to land inline.

alternatively, take your shoes off and try to run on a hard floor, you'll do a halfway decent job of it instinctively.

(the gentle heel touch-down is the tricky bit, that can take a while to learn)

I can only tell you my experience, which is mixed. I never got on with running before as it gave me niggles in my knees etc. So I have been trying minimal road shoes- Innov8 bare x180 I think. Im not a runner so I have stared slowly and am not getting a workout out of it yet, so it does not burn many kcal. I get sore calves, which I guess in part is poor form. My main problem is that I am not really progressing beyond about 5k runs (I started with about 200 yards!) without having to have a couple of days in between. Some people think running totally barefoot helps form, but I struggle to find any tarmac nearby that does not have glass etc on it.

I get sore calves, which I guess in part is poor form.

Possibly, though it might just be that the muscles take time to adapt.
My calves felt absolutely shredded at first, but rarely notice them now.
Whether that's the muscle getting stronger, or some change in muscle firing pattern, or some other muscles e.g glutes getting stronger, I don't know. Probably a combination of all three.

FWIW almost all my training running has been done in fell type shoes that have a very low profile. When it started getting dark I started to go road running. I didn't get on with my over cushioned road shoes so bought some 'racing flats' for road running. This then exacerbated an underlying problem and I've been on and off running for a month or so.

On a less severe note when I went from regularly running in Lasportiva Crosslites (medium profile?) and Mudrocs to a pair of NB MT101 I got sore ankles.

I think that I would benefit from doing a bit of barefoot running once a week to build muscles that would better tolerate these variations and then not get injuries, maybe in time and some strength training of the muscle groups I could run this way all the time.

I'm sceptical about some off the claims and think that to a degree its another angle on which to market stuff. Ultimately unless you do additional exercises to condition your muscles / address gait problems (e.g. squats, lunges, clam) then you will end up with an injury one way or another - barefoot running will not rule this out.

Not really sure where I'm going with this but any significant changes to footwear will take some adapting to. If you've not been running alot then this may be less of an issue. As with all things running whatever you're doing (and this includes changes to your current routine) take it easy - too many injuroes come about due to doing too much too quickly rather than the footware IMO

Thing is I think my natural style is to land on the balls of the feet, but with my current shoes I'm forced to land on the heel as it's the first bit of the shoe to hit the ground

And that's exactly why I sought barefoot shoes. I figured out I needed to forefoot strike all on my own, due to wondering why I'd only ever been any good at sprinting. I then realised it would be easier in shoes without heels (like my old track spikes), so I went to look for some which is when I discovered all the hype.

But yes - I run like I am sprinting, but it's also like being a boxer, or a tennis player waiting to return a serve. If/when you get tired or you are on a long slow run (yuck) you can let your heel hit the ground after your forefoot for a bit of support.

As for progressing beyond 5km - do short hard intervals or run fast/walk, don't plod.

... and in comparison I bought a pair of football boots at Christmas so I could run with my daughter over our local hill. I tried it with my normal trainers but spent most of the time sliding all over the place, no control at all.

The boots give huge levels of grip, you guys must have some dry trails to run with normal soles at the mo.

Oh yeah and rather than spend £90 on some barefoot shoes, just buy some pumps from the market.

Barefoot running incorporates a lot of common sense/bio mechanics (Gordon Pirie *, Kenyans, Born to Run) with a lot of hyperbole (VFFs, silly pricing). I think it is a classic case of balance - understanding how running shoes developed and how heel striking became an incorrect orthodoxy - but not taking it to extremes.

A classic compromise is to try a lightweight running shoe eg Asics DS trainer. Light/minimalist enough to "feel" your feet and to promote mid foot strike, but still some cushioning and limited support. Start fitness have them on offer for about £60. Alternatively go down to the dreaded sports direct and get a pair of retro Adidas marathon for about £40!!!

As will most exercise things balance is the key and short bursts of barefoot are great for getting the correct feel. But find a nice grassy field withouht human or animal mess!

* used to run in basic pumps

monkeyfiend - Member
...you guys must have some dry trails to run with normal soles at the mo.

my 'barefoot' mud shoes:

[img] [/img]

The key factor IMO is that it forces you to mid or forefoot strike.

I've previously had some problems with lower back pain when running and a couple of people have recommended "barefoot" running techniques as being a good way to develop good posture

Another vote for New Balance Minimus Trail shoes. They feel like proper trainers, but the lack of padding (and zero drop, I think) forces you away from heel striking. If it doesn't hurt, you are probably doing it right.

I made myself learn not to heel strike last year by doing lots of short road/path runs in the NBMTs for several months, and no running at all in normal trainers. My calfs killed afterwards, and my ankles also ached a bit, but it all gets better with time. I feel very awkward heel striking now, it feels bumpy and inefficient.

I did a few ultramarathons last year (in Inov-8 Roclites, not the NBs) and I'd say that for me the midfoot striking is definitely more efficient and less damaging. Not sure it's faster (it might be, but there are too many other variables).

Your mates will laugh at you for mincing.

Oh, the NB Minimus Trails are OK for offroad paths, but rubbish in mud. Not enough grip.

Remember that pic someone posted a few days back of the guy running 10 marathons whilst heel-striking in VFF?

Ok fair point, I should have said it makes it harder to heel strike, or more obvious that it's not a good idea as you hear your brain banging about in your skull as you sent hard shocks through your heel and spine!

With regards posture, running faster gives better gait and posture imo. So I run fast until I get knackered then walk. Training is not just about strength and fitness but also about neurological training. By running fast I train my body and legs to move in a certain way at a certain pace, and then to get faster I just increase the running and decrease the walking til I can run a full 5k at that pace.

Thanks all for the advice - some useful stuff there to mull over.

Gordon Pirie

Lots of his ideas where NOT "common sense" incredible runner though

Some interesting reading on these links if you wish -

[url= http://triathlete-europe.competitor.com/2013/01/04/why-barefoot-runners-never-win/ ]Good luck winning without those shoes![/url]

[url= http://www.blisstree.com/2012/06/26/fitness/run/foot-strike-photos-10k-olympic-trials-barefoot-running-vs-normal-running-678/ ]"your foot should land however you damn well please"[/url]

Huh.. those pictures don't tell the whole story mind. There's only one photo of each runner. On a crowded track they could easily have been braking whilst they do all that jostling. Can't really tell from that.

However, those are women weighing all of 40kg probably, running on a cushy track. I imagine it's a bit different for 90kg of weekend mtber running on tarmac.

It may not matter for everyone, some folk may be able to heel strike and roll very effectively, but for me it was like night and day. And many others it seems.

It's definitely something that should be properly experimented with, and not just for a few runs. For me it's the difference between hating running and never doing it, and being comfortable and good enough to enjoy it. A pretty damn big difference, I'm not talking about shaving seconds here.

Thanks Juanpelota some interesting stuff.

The whole barefoot running thing is a fad.

Bulky, heavy cushioned running shoes are largely a straw man and all of the competitive runners I know ran in lower shoes for faster running and racing anyway we just called them racing shoes/flats.

I run mainly in Nike shoes after wearing every model and brand over the last 30 years of serious running and my Nike shoes are relatively low but with a nice air cushion that allows me to run 50 ish miles a week without getting too much soreness and importantly do it again 24 hours later.

All a matter of branding and selling more gear.

For what its worth I agree with Molgrips and I would be staggered if anyone in those races touched the ground with their heels.
As a mid and forefoot striker with a PB that would have only got me 8th in the Womens race when I pull on spikes my heels never touch the ground when I am running almost regardless of speed.

Molgrips - you're possibly right.

My conclusion is that the studies outcome is inconclusive as to what strike pattern is best, or rather there is no 'best'. I'm going to trust that the scientists have studied the video footage and selected 2 photos of the footstrike that is most representative of each runner.

The key thing that is being reported within the running and triathlon community is that it's where the foot lands in relation to the runners hips rather than which part of the foot strikes the ground.

I cant envisage a situation where heel striking at speed can be efficient regardless of relation to the hips. For the heel to land first it must be ahead of the hips and be acting as a brake.
Its a matter of degree and I have seen a lot of fast runners who land on their outer midfoot in a rolling action onto their forefoot and off. see Coe 2 minutes in

[url=

milers[/url]

I agree there will be variation between runners as to what is optimum but I cant imagine any of them heel strike but its just my opinion.

Another article from triathlete europe -

[url= http://triathlete-europe.competitor.com/2013/01/01/run-training-are-you-a-stomper/ ]Think about your stride, not your strike[/url]

Invariably they've an article or two on the topic of footstrike every month.

Also the photo's don't prove how good they could be if they sorted out their technique - Usain Bolt is the fastest man on the planet but has really bad form according to Michael Johnson, imagine how fast he COULD be - and I figure that the same could be levelled at all of those 10K runners. Just because they are the fastest doesn't mean they're the best. Tools like barefoot running may help them optimise elements of their technique, as may running in iron boots. Optimisation is a matter of taking all of the different elements of your training and putting them together appropriately for the event you're training for.

Barefoot running certainly has some benefits but is not the magic bullet that people will make you believe. I still believe that unless you are very lucky or have the right genes, you won't go running injury free unless you do additional strength / technique training regardless of what you have on your feet.

Tools like barefoot running may help them optimise elements of their techniqu

Thats partly my point. Anyone who is that competitive spends a great deal of time on the track practicing running at speed, that can be done in either spikes or "flats" and has been the case forever! My point being they (and we) dont call it "barefoot" running they call it "running" the "barefoot" is just made up to sell more gear!

Surfer - personally I don't think the braking forces of the foot's impact are going to be that different, heel v's forefoot, if the foot is landing way out in front of the body.

That study seems to be one of the most thorough (that I've read) on the topic and one of the few that offers more than opinion and individual experience.

If you enjoy what you're doing, you'll get better at it. If you need science and theory to help you enjoy running, great, you'll get better at it.

From that link
"Have you ever seen a bare-foot runner win a race? No, you probably haven’t."

I'd go a lot further than that, it's extremely rare to see a barefoot runner race. It's rare to see one out training. You'd be forgiven for thinking it was quite the thing for the amount of noise on the internet and increasingly in print media.

It's very common to see fast efficient runners racing and winning. Many of these may well have a pretty lightweight shoe on and many will be striking the ground briefly with a fore/mid-foot stance.

if the foot is landing way out in front of the body.

I agree its how far in front of the hips the foot lands that is the issue. it would be difficult to heel strike with the foot further under the hips however.

surfer - I'd love to see the video footage of the most pronounced heel strikers in that study to understand exactly what's going on!

stever - it's easy to barefoot run from the comfort of my office chair.
My guess is that the majority of people who bang on about barefoot are probably not really runners.

Blimey, an apparently innocuous question provoking a heated debate on STW- who'd have thought it?

Anyone recommended Hokas yet 😉

you won't go running injury free unless you do additional strength / technique training regardless of what you have on your feet.

Surprised Jamie hasn't been along to post that video.

SJ, you might want to take a look at http://barefootrunning.fas.harvard.edu/

I've read the barefoot runner and own a pair of Merrill barefoot trainers which I've yet to use. I have run on and off for many years always in what are considered conventenal trainers, but after a knee op in May last year decided I would start again with the running lark. I'm willing to give the "new" style trainers a go, but hey what did people use before trainers! As a youngster (and many stone lighter) I was always running around in bare feet. I'll try and remember to post an update on progress a few months from now - injury free hopefully!

A short read relating to this topic

Can't vouch for the quality, I think it made it to the BMJ if that's worth owt

heated debate

If this constitutes "heated" you must live a sheltered life!

Ok there is a bit of confusion here.

There's actual barefoot running, without shoes, and there's barefoot STYLE running which is what most of us are talking about, where you choose a shoe that simply protects the sole of your foot and maybe adds a little padding, but is mostly flat - as opposed to a traditional running shoe which has bags of padding, and an inch or so of heel. The minimal design allows you to run as if you had no shoes on, but the chunky kind can actually stop you landing forefoot first due to the heel.

How many top athletes go without shoes? None that I've seen.

How many wear minimal shoes without a heel? All of them, it seems!

you won't go running injury free unless you do additional strength / technique training regardless of what you have on your feet.

I have not actually injured myself running despite not doing any strength training. Bits of me do get temporarily sore though, worst thing was ITB pain which was remedied with a single roller session.

Don't get hung up on the marketing stuff mind. There is a clear difference between flat shoes and heeled ones, obviously, and they let you run in different ways. It's definitely real.

My guess is that the majority of people who bang on about barefoot are probably not really runners.

I'm not really a runner, but the reason I bang on about it is that it turned running from something I utterly hated to something I can do and enjoy working on. There are a lot of people on here who feel the same way about running as I used to, and what I learned could well help them enjoy something that could be important to them. So it's worth sharing.

as opposed to a traditional running shoe which has bags of padding, and an inch or so of heel

Straw man as I have said on lots of occasions

where you choose a shoe that simply protects the sole of your foot and maybe adds a little padding,

Define little

Molgrips, you missed out an important bit -

[i]I still believe that unless you are very lucky or have the right genes,[/i]

😉

If this constitutes "heated" you must live a sheltered life!

Not particularly... To be fair I'd only heard the term "barefoot running" a couple of weeks ago and am just genuinely surprised that this is the subject of such a big debate in the running community.

I think I've come to the conclusion that like Molgrips, I've got a natural midfoot strike and that the jarring I've been experienced previously could be to do with the heel being forced down in the shoes I'm using currently.

I've managed to pick up a pair of NB Minimus for £40 so will gen up on the technique, give them a go (taking it easy of course) and see how I get on.

Genuine thanks to everyone for the advice - it's been enlightening!

I still believe that unless you are very lucky or have the right genes,

I struggle to consider myself as having the right genes for anything to do with distance running 🙂 I suspect it has to do with the fact that I'm so bad at it I rarely run more than 5km!

Just read the article above about stomping - fairly common sense really, if you hit the ground hard you're more likely to hurt yourself. There's a lot of stress going through everything. My feeling is that the tendons and muscles should act like suspension, which is how I arrived at the forefoot strike idea. Having watched nature programmes talking about how animals run efficiently using stored energy, I thought it silly not to use the biggest spring and shock in my own legs.

Lots of people will tell you that you need to walk in minimalist shoes for several weeks before you attempt to walk in them. That is mostly a load of rubbish. I just fired the shoes on and went for several fairly lengthy runs and have had no problems a few months later.

I'm working on a theory that the cause of injuries in runners is due to constraints that shoes put on ankle movement - which leads to muscle imbalances and muscles not firing when they should. My sample size of two people is proving interesting.

Lots of people will tell you that you need to walk in minimalist shoes for several weeks before you attempt to walk in them. That is mostly a load of rubbish

I concur, although I do love walking around in them. Walking is a totally different activity biomechanically.

I'm working on a theory that the cause of injuries in runners is due to constraints that shoes put on ankle movement - which leads to muscle imbalances and muscles not firing when they should.

I've heard that a few times too - interesting.

http://www.sportsscientists.com/2008/01/running-technique.html

I'm working on a theory that the cause of injuries in runners is due to constraints that shoes put on ankle movement - which leads to muscle imbalances and muscles not firing when they should. My sample size of two people is proving interesting.

I'm reading [url= http://anathletesbody.com/ ]Anatomy for runners[/url] at the mo, which also seems to think many problems are caused by muscles not firing at the right time.

Some people think running totally barefoot helps form, but I struggle to find any tarmac nearby that does not have glass etc on it.

No idea if it makes me a better runner, I'm not really a regular runner, but I quite like to go for a quick barefoot run every so often. I hate doing it on tarmac - I'd always do it on grass or mud/dirt paths. The squelching of mud under your toes is quite enjoyable in a Peppa Pig / Pig Pen from Snoopy way. I don't like tarmac or gravel paths because I don't do it often, so it hurts my baby soft feet.

Higher mileage runners do tend to get he injuries. Running 10k everyday then 20 on the weekend does need additional stuff to strenghten legs to avoid injury, unless you're lucky and have good genes / biomechanics

I've taken my shoes off at the end of runs on the smooth tarmac down my road and on the path, few hundred yards. It feels great but hurts my feet like joemarshall, even on really smooth clean tarmac.

New Balance Minimus MT10 Trail are excellent. I have them for training on a track (as opposed to spikes) and gym work. The lack of cushioning but still with support makes them superb for deadlifts and squats.

Lower back pain is more likely to be a problem with posterior chain / hip mobility. I'd start there. Do you sit down a lot.

I have the NB MT10s. Started running back in September, and thought I may as well just start in them rather than starting running and then have to learn a different technique. Had no injuries so far, very few blisters and am running extremely well.
Highly recommend them, without getting into all the barefoot running arguments.

MT10s are what I've bought - seem to be a good compromise between a normal and "barefoot" shoe.

Lower back pain is more likely to be a problem with posterior chain / hip mobility. I'd start there. Do you sit down a lot.

Yes and no - my day job is office based a lot of which is desk work, but I'm also a retained firefighter and I'm pretty active outside of work.